I checked in on the Organic Rose gardening forum for the first time recently. I felt utterly lost because it seemed all of the gardeners were in cold climates (and chemistry nerds talking way over my head LOL). It might be a cultural thing.

Yes jkelly true, thank you. The same thing happens to me when I listen to the soil microbiologist from Cornell Ithaca NY. The scientific terminology is hard to grasp.

That's why I like Elaine Ingham from Oregon, she talks in less scientific terms and explains it well.

Burlington Vermont for example is also an area excelling in organic gardening. To agree with j kellys point of cold climate and organic culture.

Same goes for different parts spread across NY state. We are changing from conventional practice of chemicals.

The focus is on the roots depth which helps with water conservation for climates with less rain. ( my lupins don't like it here)

I often chime in on warm climate threads and I never discourage them from posting on my threads. Knowledge is knowledge and the more the better. I've learned a lot from the warm climate growers on here and hopefully I've been able to help some occasionally too.

The forecast here in Dallas is 100 degrees or so every day for the next 10 days at least, with no rain in sight. My primary concern is water, and I water by hand ( and my work schedule has gone nuts). I can't be bothered with sprays, or weeds or anything else. If they make it through the summer, I'll be happy.

Winter kill? What's that?

I have to say thank you Seil for sharing so much of her wisdom. I'm with jkelly with the heat issue and I know Seil is in the north but her vast amount of knowledge has helped me a southern gardner be able to grow many strong, healthy roses. I am not close enough to a Rose Society to go to them for advice so I am glad to get any and all advice here that might help. I also know it is incumbent on me to work through that information and glean what is best for my climate but so many things are universal to all growers. So thank you not only to Seil but to all the other great rosarians here who never tire of giving the same information over and over again.

Seil. I think that some advice is universal, and your advice is often that way.

Beth, you beat me to it! Great minds....

Yes I am thankful for Seil too.

Sam, I'm not in a cold climate, but my baby roses faced an unusually harsh (for my area) Winter their first year, and another the following (i.e. last) year. My beds are raised, but the roses were planted at the native soil level. So in effect, they had 6-8" of cane buried, and grow and leaf out from there. My zone-pushing roses that got cut to the soil line rebounded from the roots, even after their first Winter. Only two died outright -- 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber". I think that, perhaps, the idea of building a raised bed on top of already-planted roses might be a good idea for cold-climate gardeners, in that it is rather like "instant deep roots". What do you think?

:-)

~Christopher

It was a hard winter especially record setting amount of snow in Boston. I feel sad that this forum is like it is for too long and I miss Karl Bapst.

Christopher I like the coffee grounds that you used. It will pay off for years as your soil gets better. I enjoy learning from you about roses. After all you are in the Garden State.

I agree with its you guys. I think there is advice that is universal to all roses everywhere However, we should hold ourselves responsible for giving appropriate advice, especially to newcomers.

Also, It's not just a cold vs warm weather thing.

There are quite a few of us who live internationally. When I was posting heavily I used to always mention that I live in Ireland. I can get away with things that those in a dryer climate can't.

- My soil and climate are vastly different.

- During the Summer the sun doesn't set until 10:30pm

- I rarely have to water my 30 roses living in pots - maybe three times a summer. I've never once had to water my roses that are in the ground.

- I frequently apply natural (homemade) fertilisers because it rains so much.

i am also on the Seil bandwagon

m

I have a Persian Yellow. It is closely related to the wild rose foetida, native to Georgia (in the Caucasus region), from which all yellow (and orange) roses are descended from. Although it will only bloom once a year, it produces deep rich yellow blooms. It is more drought tolerant than regular roses, but not cold tolerant and is only suited to warmer climates.

adirondack - what I hear you saying is, spraying fungicides every two weeks is outrageous and offends your sensibilities. For those of us who are careful to respect the environment it difficult to read. I understand your frustration.

I'll take a massive risk now and ask (because I am genuinely curious), what are you hoping to accomplish by pursuing the point within this delightful thread about cold vs warm weather?

m

Thank-you very much for understanding my frustration mirendajean.

Concerning fungicides with rose care Cornell in Ithaca NY doesn't call for preventative spray routine and focuses on selecting for disease resistance no pesticide.

Texas a&m suggest preventative fungicides and pesticides for roses.

Sam, your beef seems to be about fungicides. Blackspot is blackspot, regardless of the climate. Sure, in colder climates you have less of it because your season is shorter. In California, they don't have it at all (except if they get some wet weather). So yes, it is dependent on area. I don't think that fungicides in a cold climate is bad advice. But I agree that northern and western climates telling people in the southeast not to use them is bad advice.

Sometimes location is everything. Sometimes not.

Rosenut (Karl Bapst) used cheap lawn fertilizer on his roses. He said that roses can't read. I miss Karl also. I saw Field Roebuck's book at the public library and teared up. I'm thankful I've had the opportunity to learn from many great rosarians on Garden Web.

When I attended Master Gardener training, they showed photos of agricultural land in the US southwest that had been damaged by massive salt build-up from years of commercial crop production. In my opinion, that type of damage isn't likely to occur in a home garden because the scale of production is so much smaller. I dropped out of MG training because the trainers were so evangelically "organic" that it wasn't possible to have an honest discussion with them. I value the varied viewpoints found on the rose forum and the respectful discourse that occurs here.

I'm not technically inclined but I still very much appreciate all the advice I can get. Weather it is from oversea's, north, east, south or west. It is then up to me to filter the information and do what I believe is best for me. Keep advising everyone.

One of the most enjoyable things about this forum is its national character. I like to think of folks in Michigan, New Jersey and Virginia growing some of the same roses i grow here in Droughtland. When they told me I couldn't grow rugosas, I listened (and saved the money I was about to waste). I'm too much of an amateur to try telling someone in the snowy climes how to raise roses, but I'll always take advice. I'm in 10b/20, by the way, and I wish I could find a way to sign in with my old name, SFV4Life. I signed in using Facebook the first time after the Houzzification , and it used my drivers-license name. Ugh.

You can change how your name appears in your preferences. I, too, lost the username I had on GardenWeb, but I made my name here appear with it -- and my zone info. Go to the upper right corner of this page, and hover over "Your Houzz" and click "Edit Profile". There you'll see your username under Account Information, but scroll a tiny bit down and you'll see "Profile Information". In the field for "First name (publicly displayed)", simply type in what you want to appear. I typed "AquaEyes 7a", and that's my "First name (publicly displayed)" every time I post.

:-)

~Christopher

When I was younger I used to be jealous of people living in warmer climates who had longer growing seasons. Now, a little older and a little more experienced, I'm not so sure. Yes, in Indiana I have a shorter growing season, and an especially harsh winter can do it's damage. And there are some plants that I wish I could grow here, but can't. On the flip side of that, I believe that a good winter nap does plants a lot of good. They shed their old tattered foliage, so in the spring they get a fresh start with some new clothes. They get a needed rest and wake up refreshed. Whether by research, or trial and error, I have to make sure I plant roses that are hardy enough to survive our winters, but there are plenty of those. Most OGRs and David Austins do well here. Plus, the anticipation in the winter of the next growing season is a big part of gardening here. It's like being a kid waiting for Christmas.

Sorry, I don't understand the arguments here much. I am in Zone 5. Please educate me.

1. What's wrong if you plant the bud union deep in the soil in California? Does it rot?

2. Soil health is not important in California? I thought organic way of growing things are universal. No insecticide, no chemical, are way to go for anyplace, aren't they?

Over the years, I see people posting from hot climates that, IMHO, don't know hot like we in the low desert know hot. I do see postings from areas where short-term heat is taking it's toll on the roses and will often chime in about reducing fertilizers, sprays, increasing shade, etc. because I deal with those issues for 7-8 months in my climate. I stay out of discussions about black spot, over-wintering and Japanese Beetles because I have no experience with them. I also tend to stay out of discussions about favorite roses in northern climates. I'm lucky if my roses can tolerate 110+F for 30 days and 100+F for 90 days every year. Roses that continue to fight back will always be my favorites :).

oh, I didn't know about Rosenut! I hate that I have been away from these forums for a few years. I always enjoyed his posts.

I would humbly like to thank those above for their kind words about me. I do think that there is universal rose information but I also read everything on here, not just cold climate threads, and I've gleaned a great deal of knowledge about the trials and tricks that warm climate growers go through. I'm a little nuts for Teas, Chinas and Noisettes (don't we always want the ones we can't have, lol), none of which I can grow here (although I'm attempting a second try at Mutabilis this year), and always read what ever I can find about them. Hence I have a pretty good knowledge about the more common ones. If I can share even that limited knowledge I try to. I do usually preface my comments with the fact that I am in a cold climate and do not have personal experience with some of these things. However, as I said, I feel that any and all knowledge acquired and shared is a good thing.

I always try to describe my conditions when I post and my location and zone are listed with my name. A lot of the information people gardening in a cold climate have to have is completely foreign to me, so I keep out of those discussions. Even though I live in a warm climate I don't have raised beds, garden completely organically and don't spray my roses with anything but water. I do have mildew, blackspot and some rust during the wetter seasons but pretty much ignore them until they go away when it gets hotter and drier. Roses that are constantly miserable with my conditions get replaced. There are enough roses available for any one climate and I find it bad for the environment and the people, pets and living creatures to spray them with any toxins for the doubtful pleasure of being able to sustain a certain rose. that would not flourish without intensive care.

I think it's a big help ,if only psychologically, to hear from people in different climates. In my hot climate, winter is rarely a problem for roses. Here, summer is the potential "killer season". This July has been so horrible: temperatures consistently in the high 90's-100 degree range for about 3 weeks un-did so much of the good that the blessed rain brought us, up to about June. I'm battleing against animal "invaders",as well as heat and drought,and will probably lose some plants out-right, whilst others, as I have seen over the years, become gradually weakened and eventually will die. The sun is so intense that I can't even work during the day, only a few hours in the evening, and wind up getting home only at midnight, or even 1 AM,so it's a tremendous stress. But then I think of the woes of my fellow gardeners in cold climates, who regularly lose roses due to winter die-back. I read of gardeners who are having a summer so rainy and cold that they get few flowers. Frankly, I find it a bit hard to not envy those whon have a "rainy and cold" summer ,but then I remember a post where a gardener was talking about getting so much rain that the plants were all drowning...now, I don't think this could happen where I am, but reading about it helps me in the struggle to keep things in perspective, and remember that my point of view is by no means "the truth". This is a very healthy thing, IMO, not just in the context of gardening...

I think that it is really valuable to hear about growing roses in different climates. The key is that whoever is posting explain where they are, and the climate they garden in, and DO NOT try and give specific advice to those who garden in completely different climates. I try to share what certain roses do in my garden, because it might be interesting, but try always to warn that I have no idea what they might do in different conditions.

Warm vs Cold is way too simplistic - the warm climate I garden in in CA is totally different from places in the South, for instance, where summers are wet and humid. We do not have hardly any blackspot "pressure", so I will not keep a rose which gets it - I have over 100 roses which do not get it, so why would I keep one that does? Also rust - I only have 3 roses which get rust sometimes, and those are "family heirloom" HTs from the mid 20th century. I keep them because they were planted by my DH's grandfather when they were first introduced, and I like the flowers. However, they live together in huge pots on the patio, where I can keep an eye on them and deal with the rust when it shows up immediately.

I have a friend who has a summer home in Maine. She is able to grow several "once bloomers" I really like. It does not matter that they only bloom once for 6-8 weeks, because that is about the extent of her growing season! I personally would not like that.

Here we get two Springs with new growth and renewal of the plants each year. One is the same season everyone else gets Spring, except earlier - say, March/April. The other is in the Fall when the rain (god willing) comes back. That is really exciting, because many plants have been dormant over the long, hot, dry summer. They come back to life quickly - new growth, new blooms, etc. It is our main planting season. We plant in the Fall so that the new baby plants will have time to grow roots during the mild and wet (usually) winter. So, everyplace is different, and I think it is really good that, being human, we get used to whatever situation we are in, and decide it is the best one! Makes for more happy gardeners.

Jackie

Actually I would think that it is common sense to note that all of us are from all walks of life and from diverse gardening zones. Most people (myself included) give advice and always add that it is based on our experiences in our gardening zone. We may not always say it because it is just common sense. I agree that the more knowledge people share with each other the better it is. It is very interesting for me to read what people's experiences are for growing the same rose.