Is this 'The Reeve'? Is this 'The Pilgrim'?
The old Austin bed at the rose garden has a few plants that have lost their labels. For curiosity's sake, might you happen to know what these are or what they might be?
I'm a bit enamored by the first one, although I may never grow it, since it mildews pretty badly by the end of summer, and the flowers ball in the rain. Still, it has better repeat than even the modern Austins (photos from May, but right now, this one is the only one that has a flower on it, in either the old Austin bed or the new one), and it has a terrific fragrance. In this bed is 'Windrush', 'English Garden', 'Claire Rose' , 'Pat Austin', 'Charles Austin', and the original 'William Shakespeare' so I assume it is from the same era.
There is a label nearby but not under the plant that says 'The Reeve' although is may be from a plant that is long gone.
Flowers nod. Almost looks like 'Evelyn' or 'Abraham Darby' or 'Tamora' in this photo, but the flowers never open as orange as those tend to do in this climate.
Looser form in dry weather. Outer petals fade pale blush, almost white. I first thought it might be 'St. Cecilia', but probably not. ('The Squire' to the left and behind that is 'Windrush')
After a rain, the flowers have this globular form. ('The Squire' in front and purple in the far corner is 'Prospero').
Here's another one with no label, also in the same bed. Could it be 'The Pilgrim'?
It's the plant in the front in the photo below. I think the yellow behind it is 'Charles Austin' and behind that is 'Claire Rose'.
What do you think?
Comments (14)
dublinbay z6 (KS)
8 years agoFirst of all, the rose you think might be The Pilgrim, is it a shrub or a climber? There is no doubt that my The Pilgrim is a climber, but your picture makes it look a bit shrubbier than I would expect.
Here is a picture of my The Pllgrim which is in sun most of the day:
The other major difference I see between my The Pilgrim and yours is that mine is the world's stingiest bloomer. Yours looks to be a very floriferous bloomer.I can't really say whether your rose is The Pilgrim, but at least this gives you a few more points of comparison to consider.
You inherited some really nice roses there.
Kate
noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) thanked dublinbay z6 (KS)Related Discussions
James Galway vs The Reeve & Generous Gardener
Comments (5)G'day LiezelG, Of the three roses that you are asking about, I have direct experience with The Reeve. It is a good rose, though I am not at all certain how large it will get even in a warm temperate garden. Mine is quite winter hardy here in my , cold Canadian climate, so I suspect that its mature size is not overly affected by winter die back as is the case with many other Austin roses. Its canes are fairly thin and flexible, so they arch over in a very pleasing manner. The longest ones I have seen are perhaps 2 meters. I am not at all certain it will make a climber if that is what you are looking for, but having said that, I suspect it would break laterals if it was trained along a fence. It is a delightful rose that I like very much. The link below is to a thread I started about The Reeve on the Forum last summer, images of my plant are included. With respect to The Generous Gardener and James Galway, I have researched them both and would love to try them if only I had more room. Both get good reviews for health and rebloom from people who grow them. The description for JG on Help Me Find Roses begins: "Tall, climbing, upright..." It is however said to have stiff canes, grows to 3 meters or more and is most often pictured as a stand alone shrub, or a pillar rose if you do a google image search. Bloom colour is said to be quite variable, ranging from apricot-orange to lavender-pink. It is not often noted for strong fragrance in reviews I have read. But it has a very beautiful very double old fashioned flower form. The Generous Gardener is likely the rose to choose if you want a large climber that you can train on a fence. It generally gets excellent ratings for health, bloom quantity, bloom frequency, fragrance and vigour. It is often pictured as a climber on a wall, espaliered, or on an arch. Colour is listed as light pink but it appears to fade to almost white. Flowers are looser and more blousey than JG. Hope this helps a little. By the way, you mentioned The Swan in your initial post. I grew Swan many years ago, but lost her to a harsh winter. I have been looking for a replacement ever since, but so far no luck. And just to note, we may have access to more Austins in North America than you do, but the down side is there are so many to choose from, there is no room to grow all the ones we'd like. Cheers, Rick - A Hopelessly Addicted Early Austin Connoisseur Here is a link that might be useful: A Rose That Is Pleasing Me Greatly...See MorePainted pilgrim tray
Comments (21)Thanks Oldcrafty, Prosperity and OA. As I said above, I have no idea where I will display it yet, it was just a pattern that I'd had earmarked to do since the late 80's and decided I'd better "git r done" while I still could! LOL Prosperity, I doubt that "Pilgrims" would mean much to someone from out of the U.S., but I'm glad you liked it. Oldcrafty, I love your forum name. If you are/were a painter, come on over to the Painting forum and share your expertize and pics with us. We need more activity over there for sure. ;o) Luvs...See MoreLocal article on selling a home quickly
Comments (3)mfbenson: "So in order to sell a house quickly I have to sell a house quickly." More like in order to sell a house quickly one has to take the appropriate steps to give it the best chance of selling quickly BEFORE it is put on the market instead of waiting for months without a bite...pricing it right..making sure it is in good shape, no repairs needed..neat..clean..decluttered...with good curb appeal....See MoreThe Pilgrim and other Austins in GA garden
Comments (13)Hi Kate, from what I have read it seems that Happy Child prefers a warm climate as she does not over winter very well in cold ones and vigour in cold climate seems to be an issue, but in a hot climate she is wonderful. Nancy, Evelyn's blooms can be peach or pink or Ivory depending on the age of the flowers and how much sun and heat she receives. As a rule give your Austins as much sun as possible and they will reward you with lots of blooms....See More
noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
8 years ago
rideauroselad OkanaganBC6a
8 years agoThe apricot rose in the first picture does not look like The Reeve to me at all. My guess would be either Evelyn, or Abraham Darby. Abraham Darby, though would normally be a much larger plant, usually a climber where it does not get winter die back. Though mine looks much like your image because it does die back and grow as a smaller shrub here.
The Reeve's, flowers (above) are very chalice shaped, especially to begin. Colour is deep pink when first opening and mid pink as above after a day or two. Habit is upright and then very arching on long supple canes.
This is Evelyn, a mature bloom open a couple of days in dry weather. Evelyn grows to 4 or 5 feet where there is no winter die back. The first shrub is definitely not St. Cecelia either IMHO.
The second yellow rose is similar to the Pilgrim, but not quite the same in flower form, or colour and definitely not in habit. My guess on that one would be either Alux Symphony, or Charlotte is also a good possibility. The plant habit looks more like Symphony to me. Charlotte is generally more upright, HT like, and the blooms are looser with fewer petals and more chalice shaped. Symphony is more arching in habit with very dense intricate petals, much like The Pilgrim, but lower and shrubby, only grows to three or four feet.
This is an image of Symphony, an early Austin, 1986 I think and now very rare in commerce. Much shrubbier and lower growing in habit than The Pilgrim. The only place I know for sure you can still get it in North America is Heirloom Roses, and there rarely. Said to be an excellent rose in parts of California, Oregon and Washington. I do not understand why this rose was never more widely grown, it has a gorgeous bloom form and colour and is by most reports of people who grow it a lovely rose. Alux Symhony @ Help Me Find Roses
Cheers, Ricknoseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) thanked rideauroselad OkanaganBC6anoseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
8 years agoThanks for your opinion, Rick! If that's what The Reeve looks like, this one definitely is not it. Evelyn is a possibility, but it looks different from the Evelyn in the other Austin bed that is labelled, and smells different. This one did have a nice fragrance, but not like peaches which is what Evelyn smells like to me. Then again, cultural differences can make all kinds of things different, and this is an old planting bed, that needs mulch, whereas the other one was just planted. Symphony sure could be the yellow one. I don't generally like yellow, but this one is so soft and creamy and more golden then screaming yellow. Too bad there isn't much fragrance on it. Whatever it is, it's a lovely thing, and I hope someone is preserving it in another garden somewhere!
My newly planted Evelyn looked like this when the flower first opened - more orange and not cupped at all. But it is the right time period for when those roses were planted. Thanks for your thoughts!
ozmelodye
8 years ago
hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
8 years agonoseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) thanked hoovb zone 9 sunset 23rideauroselad OkanaganBC6a
8 years agonoseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
8 years agorideauroselad OkanaganBC6a
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agonoseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) thanked rideauroselad OkanaganBC6a
nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska
8 years agoFor what it's worth, my Abe Darby is 5 years old and just now condescending to grow taller than knee height in zone 5. Obviously zone 7 would be bigger, but the picture is how I imagine my AD would look if it didn't lose all its canes every winter, and weren't such an unexpected wimp. AD was my impression of the first rose as well.
Rick mentioned Charlotte as a possibility and mine stays quite short (no more than 3' high) and has a notably cupped shape that seems to match the photo. Bear in mind though, that I'm particularly poor at rose ID.Charlotte in cool weather
Cynthianoseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) thanked nippstress - zone 5 Nebraskanoseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
mustbnuts zone 9 sunset 9
8 years agoThe pale yellow and white one (the pilgrim?) looks a lot like the Mary Webb that I used to grow. Let me see if I can find a picture of it. Sorry for the bugs on the flowers. Also, this rose opens a pale yellow in the center but in my hot sun immediately fades to white. Someplace that is not the temperature of the surface of the sun, it may stay pale yellow. I tried very hard to capture a picture of it when the center was a pale yellow but was always at work, etc., and it had turned white by the time I got to it.
noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
8 years agoLatest flower looks like Abraham Darby. Also smells like Abe, mildews like Abe, and wilts in the sun like Abe. I'll assume that it is Abe. Still not certain about the soft yellow one.
stillanntn6b