One way to know if a site is relatively warm (has a longer growing season with fewer killing frosts) is to look for land in mid-fall when you can compare how far along native trees are towards dormancy. Best fruit growing areas are often known in the East and will already have established orchards. People have been growing fruit here for 300 years but you might luck out, I guess, and discover your own tiny "banana belt". As far as productivity- of course you will be able to grow a wider range of varieties in a 6 than a 5 and some would yield more with a longer season- at least over time. But your question really seems to be can you find a Z6 in regions that are predominantly 5. I think it's the leeward (southeast) side of large bodies of water that have moderated temps as in far upstate NY, not far from Buffalo and areas like Lake Geneva. Also along rivers such as the Hudson Valley and running up the Housatonic in CT. Some of the fruit you listed, like cold-hardy figs and Jap persimmons aren't going to work for you, even in a Z6 without protection.

Reviving this awesome apple thread. I was reading through what I posted and I am amused by how quickly things change. at least half of the apples I listed have fallen off my own list. I've grafted over most of my spigold because it's really not that good after all. Mutsu is also somewhat uninteresting these days. Here is my new list of favorites: - coconut crunch is extraordinary in our climate and keeps really well - sinta, fruited for the first time last Fall, delicious strong pineapple flavor - Fiesta, really good for a Summer apple - Williams pride, my tastiest Summet apple after Viking - Orin, great storage apple that still has that tropical pineapple flavor in March - alkmene, yummy summer August apple that tastes lime a cox but even better - kidds orange red, superb in the Fall - Haralson, fruits well here in California and its good - transparente de cronkels, delicious and high quality I still love gravenstein, hauer pippin and granny smith off my old list. I am curious what will stand out this year, as it surely won't be the same as last year. -

Fruitnut, What do you think about Jupiter? For a while that seemed to be everyone's favorite seedless on this forum. Would you think any of those grapes you mentioned (Flame, Crimson, Summer Royal) work in a commercial planting (no drip irrigation)? Milehigh, In terms of grower problems with TangOs II, my understanding is that it's a bit more prone to scab and splitting. Both would probably not be a problem in CO since you typically have less rain and humidity (With all the rain we've received my Redhavens are splitting up a storm.) A peach grower about 30 miles away grows TangOs II and hasn't mentioned it's particularly hard to grow. I'm trialing the variety myself. Frank, Both the BuenOs and BuenOs II are red-skinned, yellow fleshed donuts. As mentioned BuenOs is sub-acid, but BuenOs II is supposed to be a full acid peach.

I think you can send/take a soil sample to Cornell to get testing done. They can probably test for lead if that seems likely to be a problem as well as pH, major nutrients, and organic matter. You can do some basic tests as outlined here: http://organicgardening.about.com/od/soil/a/easysoiltests.htm http://www.finegardening.com/how-to/articles/hows-your-soil-texture.aspx?id=81680 Adding organic matter to the soil is always good, particularly if it is clay (yours sounds like it has quite a bit of clay) or sand. Some options to get additional compost might include: Can you borrow a truck? Could you hire a landscaper to deliver city compost for a cost that seems reasonable? Can you rent a truck (I think some of the big box stores rent trucks by the day/hour)? Is there a soil/mulch/compost supplier that can deliver a quantity from their bulk stocks for a price that seems reasonable to you? In future years, you may be able to pick up other folks leaves curbside to create more of your own compost. How worried you should be about contaminents may depend on where you are planting. For instance I live on an old farm, so in general I don't worry, but I don't plant anything edible near the house or where other old buildings stood since lead was used in house paint for many years, so I just assume that the soil near the house has a relatively high lead content. Likewise, I wouldn't plant next to a busy road since lead was a gas additive, but if your land has no history of industry, I wouldn't worry beyond that. Covering the grass is a great start since it will add organic matter as well. If you used enough layers of newspaper and it has been on long enough, most of the grass will have been killed. Grass will grow sideways into the garden under the stone border, so I would add a V shaped trench a few inches deep that gets refreshed a couple times over the course of the growing season to help keep the grass from growing into the veggie bed. Keeping mulch on the surface will help prevent weed seeds from sprouting and keep moisture levels more even. There is a vegetable gardening forum and a soil forum and also I think a composting forum here on GW where you can also ask questions.