Thanks, Beverly. I plan to seat one person at the table 90% (99%?) of the time. As pictured, I can swing a living room chair over to accommodate 3 people, without moving the table. I did consider the swing arm, but I really, really don't like the way they look. To me, they look appropriate for an office. I realize that may be a form over function decision, but it's one I'm willing to live with.

I actually like your mock-up! That's really helpful. I'm thinking of bringing the outdoor table back in, and using plastic cups, etc. to attach to the ceiling with string & tape to see how they'd look over the table using either a 12" or 16" base. Oh, another thing helpful about your mock up is that I have an option of either using predominantly red pendants, or predominantly yellow. Your mock up is helpful for seeing how they'd look, though my kitchen will be very different.

The kitchen will be remodeled, so, at least, the existing kitchen table & the peninsula will no longer be there, and much of the other stuff you see on the kitchen side (bookshelf, wood cabinets) will be gone.

16"

Thank you, again, Beverly. If I get around to the mockups, I'll re-post here just for confirmation. Much appreciated!

Beverly, and lascatx (and anyone else who I hope is following this!)

I just brought the outdoor table back in. I was trying to figure out how to attach a fake pendant set to the ceiling when I glanced over at my mobile. Funny that I realized it's pretty visually similar to the pendants. The mobile is about 18" diameter, so I thought it would be a good test to hang up & assess if I want something slightly bigger or smaller. For comparison: the mobile has eight "hanging objects" where the pendants has five. Also, the mobiles rectangles are 6" x 5" flat, while the pendants are W 4.5" x D 2 1/8" x H 5".

I'm so grateful for your opinions thus far! Here are photos of the mockup.

Looking back at existing kitchen:

Looking toward front door:

I'm also thinking I like the predominant red vs. yellow for contrast with my yellow walls & door. I welcome your thoughts - esp on larger vs. smaller (the size of the pendants themselves will remain, only the distance between them could change.)

Can't the canopy be round? Seems like it would work better in your space, match the shape of the table below. The reason I suggest 16" is so that all lights are more easily seen.

Beverly - I do wish the canopy were round. It's my one regret, since I agree with you entirely that round would work better. Maybe I'll ask the seller if he could make a round one for an extra fee.

I think I agree with Bev on 16". Larger wil help define the space as a dining space, while 12 might look like a corner accent light. I was wondering about the kitchen peninsula, table, bookcase and moving cat tower. I really wanted to put a table in the center of all that and go larger with the fixture placed acordingly. You can get 3-4 chairs at that table, but set the table with dinner plates, flatware and glasses -- it starts getting cramped on the table faster than for seating. For drinks or coffee, it's easy. For a meal, it will be tight.

To try to minimize the placement issue Bev pointed out, place the table as you have it in the first photo with the mobile and make sure the chairs by the wall have enough room to get in and out. See if you can work with that for table and fixture placement and just not have the chair on the LR side when you don't need it. The problem is that if you pull the table out, it just isn't that big. With 11 inch dinner plates set back an inch from the edge of the table, there is only 6 inches in the center for glasses and such. That means your pendants are going to be hanging above plates and fairly close to faces. When you pull the table out even 6 inches, they are probably dangling right in someone's face.

You can place the lowest pendant away from the wall to try to minimize that -- and you may want to hang a little higher than the typical 30 inches above the table top. Use you mobile and test those ideas out. SIt at all the seating positions.

lascatx - thank you!

The peninsula will be gone, but there won't be enough room for a table back there with the new kitchen. You're right that the table will be cramped if I have 2 or 3 people over for dinner, but I've been in this house 16 years and that so rarely happens... I have summer garden parties, though - and then, we're outdoors. I did "set" the table for a mockup - I'll post photos below. Four would fit, technically, but, yeah, it would be cramped. It's such a rare occurrence, though, that I'm not going to worry about it.

I have the mobile set so the lowest part is about 35" from the table, and I think that would work fine for lighting, too - especially if I go with the larger spacing. Plus, I'm 5'3", so don't have to worry about getting hit in the face. If I ever have a boyfriend again, and he happens to be tall, he'll have to deal. Plus, I don't really go for tall guys. ;-) Not to mention, that at (almost) 50 years old, I'm getting pretty comfortable with my crazy cat lady ways.

Here are the "set" photo mockups. I did sit at each of the four chairs. Getting in & out of the back ones, if the table is set for four, is a little tight, but, again, it's so rare that I'm fine with that.

If you can work with a relatively stable table placement, you might go a little lower on the fixture, but that is something you can judge better when you have the fixture. Have a friend over to help you with sitting and checking placement.

The table works, but 4 is the limit and you need to serve buffet or plate the food in the kitchen -- unless you have a kitchen counter or want to use the bay window ledge as a spot to park serving dishes, condiments, etc. It is limiting, but it beats hand balancing or hanging over a coffee table.

Have fun wth your kitchen reno. I had so much fun with mine that I still haven't done my bathroom. Or the windows. LOL Have patience.

Thanks, lascatx!

Yeah, I really think the table will pretty much stay put. Good idea about enlisting a friend. Agree, four is the absolute limit, and it rarely happens. I rent my guest room out via Airbnb, so there are sometimes two guests sitting at the table drinking coffee or having a bowl of cereal. If I like them, I might pull up a living room chair, but that's about it. Three people for a light breakfast will work fine.

Kitchen reno is planned to start mid August. Keeping fingers crossed!

Oh you'll be fine even with 4 occasionally -- as long as my son and his elbows aren't invited. Cannot get that thing tucked down. LOL

Interesting to heaer you do Airbnb. He went to Europe after graduation and they used Airbnb for all their lodging. Never heard of it before they started planning the trip, but it worked out pretty well for them and allowed them to spend more on event tickets.

Thanks, lascatx, Airbnb has worked out quite well for me. Here's my listing, if you're curious.

Of course I'm curous. I spend too much time here looking at other people's projects. LOL Looks really nice.

Just jumping in to thank you all again, and to relay the good news that the artist said he could get me a 16" ROUND canopy at no extra charge. So happy with this, and, Beverly, thank you so much for bringing it up - I don't know that I would have reached out to him with the request if you hadn't brought it up!

Oh good! I do think that will be better. Hope you will soon be enjoying it.

The table looks too small to me. Are you having a table made or are

you going to purchase a table, or use the outdoor table? The chairs take

up room when pushed all the way in to the maximum. My point being that

the chairs already stick out and you're not taking advantage of the space you

have for a bigger table top.

I used an outdoor wroth iron table in our kitchen. We made the top to

the max we could -- after we pushed in the chairs to the wroth iron base.

It's 40 1/2" round. You could go less of course depending on the chair

placement.

do you know what I mean?

Thanks, cliff_and_joan.

The table - with two chairs - will be absolutely perfect for me. Any bigger, and the table would obstruct the path to the kitchen and up the stairs.

I will be buying a 30" round table - it's a fairly standard size. The chairs (two of them) will actually push all the way in, as long as the base is not too bulky.

PS, that said, I could decide to go up to 36", which would be the absolute maximum, and could allow for more room.

What about a drop leaf, with sides that come up which wouldn't block the stairs? Just thinking the scale of a small table which can open a bit bigger might be more suited to your space, although I hear you that you have your mind set. BTW, I'm just drooling over your red table. I always, always always wanted one since I was a kid, and sadly with my new place, I still have no place for one, and since this is for my retirement, I never will. : (

gramarows - I don't like drop leafs for small tables because then you end up having such limited options - you can only sit on either end when they're down, the chairs need to be directly across from one another. Truth is, I really, really don't have a need for a bigger table, though I will consider moving it up to 36".

My red table really is lovely, and those sides pull out. The only time I use the pull outs is when I'm having a party - not for more seating, but for a bigger buffet table. I wish the table would work with my new space, but round will be more pleasing visually, and will fit into the space better. I think, in terms of seating space, it's about the same as a 30-36" round table.

yes, I see what you're saying. If you find a base you like, perhaps you can

get a top made for it. I just thought it would be good to have the option

of having of a bigger table when you have guests.

I would think this through a little more. If you mock up different size tables.

you could get an idea if you could go bigger.

A drop leaf table is an option...having a 36" piece of glass handy to put on

top of your 30" table (for guests) is another option. We did that on our

small outdoor 30" table that the two of us use all the table. We found

a piece of glass at a yard sale for a few bucks 36" we leave it on all the time

now, as there is enough room now to seat 4 people when needed.

When the chairs are pushed all the way in -- the space that is wasted

is from is the end of the table top to the back of the chair. I was going to

go smaller with our table as well 36" ...then I realized that the chairs even

pushed all the way in took up the room anyhow. So, I mocked up different

sizes and settled on 40 1/2" ...Even if I had made it 36" -- the chairs take

up the floor space anyhow.

Here is what I mean, we have four chairs around it. ( You'll only have two)

however, notice the back of the chairs when pushed in touch the table.

Hope I'm explaining this right. If I had stuck with the 36" table, the chairs

would still be exactly where they are in the room.

I also wanted to add that your house is very charming. I'm sure the bay

window lets in a lot of natural light as well visually widening the space.

I had also thought about having a larger glass, raw of finished wood or even plywood circle (you can buy those at hardware and home furnishing stores) to put on top of the smaller table. It could store behond a door or under a larger piece of furniture, back of a closet and be there to give more room when needed.

One of our projects this weekend is to move our 54" patio table inside to test the space now that we have ordered our sectional. I had been looking at 42-48" tables with the idea of using a leaf to extend into an oval when needed. The choices were limited. I found a local furniture maker and when I told them what I thought I was looking for, the wife said they wouldn't refuse to make it, but they would do everything in their power to talk me out of it due to the fact that it would not have the long term structural integrity of other choices. His advise was to get the largest round table the room would accomodate and forget any leaves. His view was the larger top (wood in our case) was a prettier surface and he could guarantee me that the table would last a lifetime and beyond.

Like you, I am nervous about getting too large, but we do need seating for 6-8 on a fairly regular basis. SInce you only need one or two on a regular basis, I would get what you are comfortable with and have the option to put a larger top on it (as long as you don't have someone who will push off of it to stand up and flip the whole thing). If you aren't sure, try a mock up of the larger top or even test out a glass or cut round on your current patio table. It's never a bad idea to test the ideas and be sure. We've wound up loving a couple of things we almost didn't try because we thought they wuoldn't work.

Thank you, Cliff_and_Joan. I totally see what you mean about the chairs.

I just now carried a kitchen chair outside to see how much it tucks in. WITHOUT the base/table legs, the chair goes in up to an inch or so from the table, but the table legs of my outdoor table get in the way & prevent the chair from being pushed in. That might be what I'll have to look at more than anything else - what kind of base/legs will allow the chairs to be pushed in farthest & will get in the way of seated feet the least. Interesting thing to think about.

The good thing is that, while I will want to find the perfect place for the light, my existing rectangular table is fully functional while looking at/thinking about round tables.

The bay window (up until this big planned kitchen reno happening later this summer) is the one major(ish) improvement to my house. That wall used to be just a flat, windowless wall. Thank you, too, for the compliment on my house. I really love it.

PS: here are some views out that bay window:

lascatx, Is this for a kitchen or Dining Room?

Good idea on mock-ups...Since we make a lot of our furniture I mock-up

everything.

lascatx - Other than the basement, I don't think there's really a place to store a rounder top (remember, first floor footprint - living room, kitchen, dining area) is only 12' x 25'.

I am considering the option of a 36" table rather than 30" based on you & cliff_and_joans' comments. Hmmm. Now, how get fashion 36" round out of cardboard (or something) to put on top of the patio table for testing...

Pretty garden Carrie. What an improvement that bay window made.

It opened up everything for you and invited the outside in!

Are you keeping those white chairs? I like them very much; they're

unique, and I love unique things, especially chairs...Think about

painting them a rusty red like you have on your picture frames...and

reupholstering them too.

Recommend looking at round table with pedestal base. Easier to get chairs around than one with 4 legs. Can't wait to see the new kitchen!

C_&_J - you know, I'd thought about getting new, wood chairs, since I think I'll get a wood table, but reupholstering & painting the chairs is a good idea! I bought the chairs & table together, so have just been assuming I'd sell/give them away together, but maybe not...

Maggieq - You know, it seems like there are plusses & minuses to the pedestal base vs legs. The pedestal means the chairs can go anywhere around the table, but, in order to be sturdy, the pedestal in the middle has to be fairly substantial on the floor, so that takes up room that could prevent the chairs from going all the way in. The legs limit where the chairs can go, but it opens up the middle of the table for both feet and for pushing in the chairs.

I'm glad you brought up the issue of pedestal vs. legs... it's one that I've thought about from time to time, and gone back & forth about in my head as to which would work better for me.

If you have cardboard and duct tape you can cut several pieces of cardboard out tape it to the edge of the table with duct tape and then place a table cloth over it. While your at it, try 38" ... consider moving the old table away and that wooden piece and moving the table back a little, this will create more space for a larger table. I know this messes up your pendent light.

I know your type (cause I'm like you, I struggle to change -- I mean, once I get

something in my head) That's why I mock up everything.

On a small table, the pedestal or legs are necessarily going to limit your chairs and legroom. It will be a trade off one way or the other. The larger the top, the more room you have to balance leg room and stability.

As for storing a larger top for occasional use, your sofa has a skirt -- it could slide under there. Or slide under your bed or behind a dresser. Just ideas.

Cliff & Joann, my table is for a breakfast room. The kitchen breakfast room and family room are esentially one long room. I have a console table that buterflies open to seat at least 4 more at my sectional when we have family groups of 10-12 or more.

Save the money on chairs, what you already have is so nice. The white color

is wrong, but painted red and with new fabric -- you would have something

special that goes nicely with the rest of your interior.

What color (Stain) are you leaning towards in kitchen cabs? Think about a table to match (color wise) your new kitchen cabs.

Joann

C/J (sorry I keep making your moniker shorter - getting a bit familiar) :) Oh, and what a gentle, kind way to call me on my stubbornness. :-)

Great idea about just putting 3" edges around the patio table. I haven't brought it back in, yet. It's kind of a PIA to get through the door, so I'm building up the inclination, slowly...

Based on the new kitchen design, it will probably work well to center the table between (and overlapping a bit) the bay window & the bumpout. The new dishwasher will be just on the other side of the bumpout, so, where the bumpout is will be space for a chair, if that makes sense. Here's a photo of the plan for that wall (note, I think the table would be better moved closer to the window than it is in this layout drawing,) I've attached the layout, and a photo of that part of the wall, as it is now.

lascatx, If you have the room a big table is wonderful. My breakfast

room is not tiny but it's not big either...However, I wanted to be able to seat 6 without having to set up the Dining Room. That's why I brainstormed and made two smaller chairs to hug the wall inside the bay.

Necessity is the mother of invention....and not being so set in your

thoughts, is another advantage when planning things out.

lascatx - True enough about the pedestal/leg tradeoff.

I just measured my couch - 34" height AND front to back, so that limits size of extra top. Basement would be most convenient, if I were going that rout. BTW, bed is on the third floor, up two flights of these steps: ;-)

C/J - My kitchen cabinets will be off white. Here are my finishes (cabinet, countertop, backsplash:)

Joann - hmm. Cabinets will be (off) white. So, maybe the chairs should stay white (or be painted a similar white?) Interesting.

Teriffic layout. What's going on the opposite wall? ...and what's going on

the wall between the window and door?

Is the reddish arrange -- tiles? hard to tell...

I think the off white to match the cabs would be fine

with reddish orange fabric. But, if you match the paint to the reddish

tiles, and paint the chairs the reddish color, it will enhance the living

room as well.

Joann - thank you!

Here's the other side (door on the left is the basement door:)

That door will be sealed, to make room for cabinets (& range) going all the way back. There will be a hinged patio door against the back wall - where the window is will be a stationery door, and just to it's right, and attached to it will be a hinged door out to the back garden.

Joann - where are you seeing reddish (orange?)

The cabinets are off white, backsplash is a light beige-ish tan and countertop is a greyish brown (Caesarstone 'Lagos Blue'.) Here's another photo. Hard to get the color right:

Oh, the reddish orange is my existing table!

how will you get to the basement, if the door is sealed?

do you have a drawing looking down from heaven ?

Oh, the basement door isn't getting sealed! The existing back garden door is getting sealed - & a new one being put in a few feet to the right. Here's an overhead:

The background in the first pic you posted of the kitchen..oh...

now I see...your old kitchen table...LoL ...

I like a brighter red. Red is a wonderful color, in Feng shui it

represents prosperity. It also is a difficult color to pick.

I had a red kitchen at one time, I painted it five times before

it was just right. Crazy!

Red is tough - ask me about red in the garden... love it, but it clashes with almost everything and ALWAYS draws attention away from everything else. Remember, the pendant lighting will be mostly red...

I love red in the garden, I see you're a Gardner as well.

We love gardening and spending time outside. Actually,

my hubby is an obsessive Gardner. I call him "the head groundskeeper."

He continually has flowers from April through November.

This year I haven't taken any garden videos yet,

been too busy.

I'll post a video of our garden for you on later on a seperate thread.

Your kitchen layout is super... on the wall where the basement door is,

is there a possibility of putting another window there? I love windows

and put many in our house.

Joann - I garden for a living, and for fun. I'm a bit obsessed. I'm waiting with baited breath for my red Lobelia to bloom. Here's my company FaceBook page. Still working on a real website.

One of the main things I wanted to get out of the kitchen remodel was garden views! The basement wall adjoins to another house - my home is a rowhome. I'm really lucky to have the side yard - it was an adjoining house long before I bought, and, apparently, it was abandoned & torn down.

Holy cow, you're a real Gardner. :)

My hubby is an obsessive Gardner. He could play around out there for

12 straight hours, no kidding.

J - I could (and do) too! Good think I finally landed on gardening as a career - it's a second career, and I FINALLY don't hate going to work!

BTW Carrie, seems like every sofa and chair I've looked at lately has been 39-40" deep, so I was figuring you would have the depth for 36". Hmmm. Sorry. Also, I meant to tell you that I really agree with your decision on the bay window. That was a great addition and it sounds like your kitchen will really open up to the garden too. Hope you post photos when you get it done, and love that you have a job you don't hate!

We moved our patio table inside. I'm comfortable with 54". My sons and DH want bigger -- would really like 60". We're leaving it in place to get used to a different perspective -- we're used to a 36x54 rectangle that opens to 54 square in that space.