The roses probably could use a good pruning and thinning out. At least all the dead wood for sure. That might make it easier to get in and get rid of the vine. Do these roses rebloom all season or just once in the spring?

I had that happen a few years ago before I planted a rose bush. I dug up the main root of the vine, but apparently it kept on growing back. As a last ditch effort, I doused with a solution of boric acid (the stuff for roaches) and water, and that's the last I heard from them. Apparently, it's a mild herbicide..

I'm not convinced it is Virginia creeper, but it probably does make things easier that it isn't trumpet vine. I've dealt with that, and it has a lamentable tendency to sprout up several feet away from the parent, producing suckers that are almost impossible to get rid of. Virginia creeper doesn't have that tendency, so it is more likely to be seedlings or something manageable.

Oh, it's definitely Virginia Creeper . The problem is almost as bad, as it will root at every joint that touches the ground.

John

Virginia Creeper-google pix

I agree with John, it's not trumpet vine. I've dealt with trumpet vine for almost 11 years, and I know that stuff. If Virginia Creeper is half as bad as trumpet vine, you're in for a battle. The key is to be persistent--maybe relentless is a better word. Diane

Another vote for virginia creeper. I wouldn't do a hard pruning/thinning of the roses in July, that would be pretty stressful. Maybe September depending on your weather (you haven't told us where you are located). For now, pull out whatever you can reach.

I had an old rose that had really thick canes. Paul Zimmerman looked at it and suggested that I cut one or two of the oldest canes to the bottom in the spring to help rejuvenate the plant. I have been doing that and have gotten new growth. I still have about four more to cut. this rose originally belonged to a friend's great-grandmother. then was passed down to her grandmother, then to her. My husband dug it up because she was moving and not taking the rose with her. we gave it its own little garden. so we don't know how old it really is. (I still don't understand how she could leave it behind, but if you had seen the condition it was in...)

Funny, I don't consider these roses overgrown. Looks like they were planted some time ago as a focal point & are mature. With their generous bloom & overall health. they appear pretty happy. (A little mildew may be showing in the foreground of the next to last pic, which may mean they need more water - or it may just be out of focus.) When the blooms fade, simple deadheading cleans them up & sets up another round of buds. Any pruning besides dead or diseased wood is usually left till late Winter around here, but those in your area will know proper timing for you.

Definitely Virginia Creeper, with which I'm well acquainted, it being native to my area. They flower inconspicuously & form small blue-black berries relished by birds & wildlife. Likely birds perching or nesting in the roses "planted" the berries there. Where the roots can't be dug out, as in your situation, without hurting other plants, I just clip the stems close to the ground as they arise & eventually the root looses energy & dies by itself. A long reach pruner to accomplish that helps greatly when thorny plants surround them. They come in sizes all the way up to 12' for climbers, but thinking 3-5' handles would work for you. One example: http://www.amazon.com/Corona-LR-3460-Bypass-Pruner/dp/B000KL4LVI

Might let your landlady know the situation with the Virginia creeper, as she may have dealt with that before & they are her roses. Using any type of chemical weed killer will likely do in the roses as well, regardless of how carefully it's attempted.

Great comment, vasue. The way you deal with your creeper by clipping the shoots that pop up, is the way I handle the remains of my trumpet vine, and it's slowly--I do mean slowly--working. The roots are losing their energy. Diane

What about just pulling a string of it out, without breaking it's stem, far away from the rose plant. Then paint the root killer stuff onto the leaves and see what happens. That way you're not doing the weed killer thing up close and personal to the rose plant....

Except that, didn't we recently have a long and somewhat heated discussion about the possibility of toxins from herbicides being transferred from one plant to another underground??

I can't really remember now whether any general agreement was reached, despite a slew of scholarly papers via Mr Kuska on the subject.

:¬)

We solved our Trumpet Vine problem in New Orleans by moving north of the lake.
To where we have Virginia Creeper here in Tennessee. We can control the VC, I never felt we could control that trumpet vine that kept coming up from under cement that was ten inches thick.

Virginia Creeper can be magnificent in fall with great color; sadly that doesn't happen dependably here, maybe every sixth year or so. But it produces huge crops of seeds much esteemed by local birds every year.

When I saw it years ago at the Evangeline Shrine in Nova Scotia I thought how lovely it was; be careful what you wish for. Another lesson learned.

John, where did you read that VC can give some people an allergic reaction? I've always used the old Boy Scout adage: if it's three, let it be, to steer me away from poison ivy. I've often corrected people that identify VC as poison ivy by citing the adage. I'm extremely sensitive to that glorious family of poison ivy, poison turmeric, poison oak, and mango. I'd like to stay as far away from anything else that may give me reason to itch.

Kublakan, read the warning in *red* here . The cause is the oxalate crystals in the sap, which causes a skin reaction on exposure to sunlight. The leaves themselves don't cause the rash. It's the sap. With poison ivy, the irritant oil (urushiol) is on the SURFACE of the leaves, so you can't avoid it if you touch the plant.

Read more at your leisure. Only a small portion of the population is allergic to virginia creeper sap, where with poison ivy almost everyone *is* or *will become* allergic to it.

John

Great, so I have trumpet vine AND Virginia creeper. The trumpet vine comes up through the black plastic and rocks, climbs up the shed wall and damages the siding, flowers pretty flowers, and refuses to die.

The Virginia creeper appears to be ONLY in the roses.

Do you think there's any chance they will kill each other?

I should have recognized it. Most of the stuff I haven't pulled out is Virginia creeper, but the stuff I DID pull out was trumpet vine.

I'll go take more pictures now. Some of these are a little blurry because I can't see the stupid display when I'm taking the pictures, but they ought to give you the drift.

And here they are:

Or will that just mean less competition for the trumpet vine, which will then explode, force its way through the bedroom windows, and utilize our somnolescent bodies for its sustenance while we sleep on, unawares?

OK, responses to everyone follow. Here goes:

@Seil

I think it will bloom again, but not as profusely as it does in the spring. Actually it HAS to bloom again, as I moved in in July last year and it bloomed after that. But not as much as it bloomed this spring. Though that may have been due to the lack of care for the year or so before we moved in while the property was empty.

@Joe Moose - was that Trumpet vine you did that to, or Virginia creeper? As I failed to notice that I have BOTH of them coming up in these roses. The pulled out stuff was trumpet vine, and some Virginia creeper. The stuff that is left is ALL Virginia creeper.

@ fig_insanity - yes, I failed to notice, I have both. I'm not allergic to Virginia creeper - I AM slightly allergic to the trumpet vine. 2-4,D is what I was told to use to kill the Trumpet vine (except I'm not "allowed" to use it because it will allegedly kill the mother plant, which is not on my property), but that won't work for the Virginia creeper? What is a "real brush killer" then?

@mad Gallica, fig_insanity, nanadoilZ7, Cecily - It is Virginia creeper in the pictures, but most of what I pulled out WAS trumpet vine. The mother plant is 30 or 50' away. It sprouts up everywhere between the back fence and the rose bushes. Its' a constant hassle. I hate the stuff. Yes, indeed, the suckers are (not almost) IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of. PLEASE tell me Virginia creeper is easier to destroy!

@countrygirl - I don't know that I'll be here next spring, but if I am, I will cut the old canes out.

@vasue - they're overgrown. You can't do anything around them and they rub up against the siding and damage it just from rubbing back and forth in the wind, which there is a lot of. I think 8' tall was conservative; they are grown up to the eaves, which has to be a good 10', what with the crawlspace. They were definitely planted too close together, given their mature size. Actually, they are probably even taller than 10" at their greatest extent, given we have 10' ceilings inside, plus the crawlspace. So the eaves are at least 11' or 12' above the patio.

I guarantee, no mildew. It is extremely arid here - High Sierras Desert. We get 7" of rain per year. That is dust from the winds blowing the desert sands around.

I do have a long reach pruner, but only one working arm. Hopefully my son can wiggle far enough in there (while I hold the thorny canes up) to cut what's left off at ground level, when he gets back from being out of town.

The landlady has never lived here. She bought the place out of foreclosure. It had been totally neglected for at least a year, probably longer, before she bought it, and other than propping the rear fence back up (because the trumpet vine is pulling it down), she knows NOTHING about what is and is not growing here.

Honestly, if the roses die - I'll just plant more roses. It would be worth it, not to have to deal with both trumpet vine AND the Virginia creeper in that part of the border. SO I DON"T CARE - if the roses die, they die. They can be replaced. The trumpet vine and Virginia creeper have to go, if at all possible.

@toolbelt - can't really get in past the thorny overgrown rose canes to do that to most of what's down at ground level. We will try, though.

@stillannt - Moving is the ONLY solution to trumpet vine, IMO. I am just really glad that we rent this, and didn't buy it. I know now to check for trumpet vine before buying anything, LOL! I love trumpet vine flowers and the way it attracts hummingbirds; but there are lots of other plants that attract hummingbirds that aren't nearly as troublesome. I'm just glad I never bought and planted it before I discovered its insidious evil. I would feel so guilty!

I love mango - lived in Puerto Rico for several years. But I can only eat ONE raw mango, and that only if I very carefully peel it, cut it into cubes, and use a fork to pass it over my lips WITHOUT TOUCHING anywhere. If I eat TWO, I get sores INSIDE the mouth. So yeah - I'm allergic to that stuff.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Ouch....yup, you DO have trumpet vine, it just wasn't in the first pix you posted, lol. It's a menace, indeed. It should NEVER be planted on purpose in the ground. A large pot might be ok, but only if it sat OFF the ground, lol. Even then, it would probably get out of its cage and rampage.

Since the mother plant isn't on your property, I don't know how you can actually get rid of it. You might approach the neighbor and see if they would be amenable to doing the deed on their side of the fence, sacrificing a bit for the good of humanity (yeah....riiiiiight). Other than that, you might try spraying any sprouts that are coming up away from the actual fence. You might discourage it, and trust me, you won't be killing the neighbor's plant. What's on the fence you'll just have to keep cutting back. Sigh...the stuff IS pretty, but it's a wild wildling, and belongs in the wild, not in a civilized garden.

The Virginia creeper is a lot more easily discouraged by pulling, which is the most environmentally friendly method, but unfortunately the most labor intensive. You'll just have.to.stay.after.it. Since you don't seem to be allergic, just make it a daily chore to check for new sprouts, and learn to recognize seedlings.

What I meant about a "true brush killer" was just to steer you away from the 2-4D. The 2-4D lingers in the soil for up to a year and can prohibit growth of anything else you plant there. Roundup isn't nearly as soil toxic, but has to be sprayed on the leaves to work well, and you might kill the roses ( I know you wouldn't mind that, but myself, I can't stand the thought of killing a healthy rose, lol). Using full strength brush killer JUST on major cuts will limit the amount of poison you're slinging around the environment.

John

John - can you name for me a "true brush killer"? Herbicides are really not something I've ever felt the need to deal with. In this case, I don't care if it lingers in the soil for a year - as long as it kills the trumpet vine. Roses can be replanted - and these honestly should be, they are far to close together and in any other climate they'd have succumbed to disease and fungus long ago. ONE rose there with some appropriate companions would be about right - not 4, and especially not when at least 3 of them are naturally huge to start with.