Beware the asian zucchini from evergreen seeds. They produce alright, and I like the 'Rondo, very productive and tasty, explodes overnight to a large size. The 'Green bt' didn't produce much, and tend to be hollow, the 'green Ball' hasn't been very productive. All of the above are extreme ramblers, and take up a lot of space, perhaps 6 feet in each direction, and produce so much leaf that the fruit are hard to find. Overall, 'Rondo' is best, if you've got space. I am very pleased so far with 'Papaya sweet', which should be a sweet 'winter squash' for storage after ripening, like a pumpkin. It climbs well on a fence, and the growing tips are bent and very flexible, which makes it easy to train by hooking the vine into fencing, and the leaves are a pretty sight with silvery veins, very ornamental. They haven't flowered yet, so I can't comment on fruit quality. The bottle gourd is an extreme climber, and can make almost 1 foot per day, it likes to grow upwards, and you can expect twenty feet of growth, white flowers at night. The angled luffa and snake gourd are thin vines, but many-branched, yet well enough behaved for me to guide along a fence. These are my observations, and you may have different ones. Jay The 'snake gourd' flowers are weird looking, with frilly edges, very ornamental in morning time, and fragrant. It's name, Thichosanthes, is Greek meaning "hair flower". Here is a link that might be useful: snake gourd flower

Susan, Oh, okay, I don't know what I was thinking that you had started them indoors. I'm hoping that I'll get a head start on them this way. I didn't plant quite all of them yet because I wasn't sure if I was starting them too early. Now that our last frost date is about two months from now (April 15), I suppose that I could start the rest inside. My problem is that I ran out of containers and will have to go get some more. I have all of my individual one and two-gallon ones used with my swamp milkweed started outside, and the smaller individual ones have butterfly weed and tropical milkweed in them. Then I also have 3 flats (72 in a flat) with swamp milkweed in two of them started outside and butterfly weed in the other one. Then I also have butterfly weed and tropical milkweed started in cups. I probably am up to close to 300 milkweed plants here, assuming that the seeds all germinate (I put two in each container), and I'm not even done yet. lol Of course, then there's the Chelone glabra, Zizia aurea, Zizia aptera, Heraculeum maximum, Foeniculum vulgare azoricum, and Angelica atropurpurea seeds from you that I have winter sown. I started some snapdragons inside, Blazing Star Liatris, also Agastache foeniculum and Blue Fescue (I suppose I could have winter sown those last two). I'll direct sow my lupines, zinnias, cosmos, and dill. There, I think I remembered everybody. :) I want to try to locate a small spicebush around here. I wonder if there'd be any harm in digging one out and relocating it here at the edge of our yard next to the woods? A sassafras tree would be nice too. Of course, I'm thinking about other plants for next year...I'd even plant a paw paw tree if I knew that I could get ZST up here, but my Butterflies Through Binoculars book shows their range ending around the southern border of PA. There are so many different kinds of butterflies that I'd like to attract here, but I don't think I want to dig up our whole backyard. :) It's snowing a lot here right now. Schools let out at noon today and have already cancelled for tomorrow. I suppose the weather will soon clear up out your way. Come on spring! Cathy

I think you would get a better response on the fruit forum but here is my 2 cents: ---APPLES--- While you can fruit just about any apple irregardless of how many chill hours is claimed it needs, you must consider that some apples will turn to mush in a hot summer area (some apples need a cool summer to taste their best) ditto for blazing Indian summers (fall). I have not heard anything about Honeycrisp being an option in warmer areas but it could be that no one has experimented with it yet. Fuji, Golden Delicious, White Winter Pearmain, Anna, Dorsett Golden, Newtown Pippin have been tried and proved excellent (I live in a hot inland valley). There are some excellent books on apples, Apples for the 21st Century is one, there is a good eBook on growing apples in Riverside (applenut is on this forum) I think the website is Kuffelcreek.com. Honeycrisp aug Winter hardy tree from the University of Minnesota. Fruit is crisp and juicy with an aromatic flavor. Striped red over yellow color. Stores well. Ripens from late September to late October. Patent # 7197 Ashmead's Kernel sept Widely regarded as one of the all-time best-flavored apples. Small to medium-sized fruit; variable shape, often lop-sided. Greenish to golden brown russet skin with reddish highlights. Creamy yellow flesh is aromatic, crisp and sweet. Fruit picked early is somewhat sharp and acidic, but mellows after a few weeks off the tree. Ripens after Red Delicious, about with Golden Delicious. Keeps 3-4 months. Used for dessert, cider and sauce. Resistant to powdery mildew, somewhat resistant to apple scab. Winter hardy tree, begins bearing at young age. From England, discovered in the early 1700s. Estimated chilling requirement 800-1000 hours. Partly self-fruitful, biggest crops with cross-pollination. Yellow Newton Pippin oct Yellow-green, late, firm, crisp, slightly tart, superb flavor. For peak flavor and acid/sugar balance, wait to harvest til cheeks are yellowish-green (late Oct./ early Nov. in Central Calif.). Good keeper. Famous for cooking, excellent fresh or dried. Vigorous tree. 700 hours. Self-fruitful. ---APRICOTS--- What? no Blenheim? It's one of the best! Too fragile for shipping so you HAVE to grow your own. It's held in very high esteem by David Karp (along with Green Gage plums). If you get 600 chill hours I would definitely check out Harcot - while I have neither grown or tasted it I've only read excellent reports. Flavor Delight is delicious, I do grow that one. Flora Gold EARLY JUNE All-purpose freestone. Early harvest, 2-3 weeks before Blenheim (Royal). Very good quality, reliable producer (produces when other vareties don't). Good choice for backyard apricot. 500 hours. Self-fruitful. (Zaiger) Flavor Delight Aprium® interspecific JUN 5 Resembles an apricot but with a distinctive flavor and texture all its own. Pleasant, lingering after taste. Early June. 600 hours. Bigger crops if pollinated by any apricot. Pat.No. 7090 (Zaiger) Autumn Glo AUG Late season apricot with tremendous flavor. Ripens in the first two weeks of August. Fruit is medium sized with good color. One of the highest-scoring apricot varieties at Dave Wilson Nursery fruit tastings. ---PLUOTS--- Dapple Dandy is a very, very good pluot, bears well, looks beautiful, tastes better than just about any plum. Flavor Supreme Pluot® interspecific JUN 15 Taste test winner. Plum-apricot hybrid with sweet, richly flavored, firm red flesh. Greenish-maroon mottled skin. June harvest in Central California, about two weeks before Santa Rosa. 5-600 hours. Pollinated by Santa Rosa, Late Santa Rosa, or other Pluot®. Pat. No. 6763. (Zaiger) Flavor Grenade Pluot® interspecific SEP 1 Elongated green fruit with a red blush. Crisp texture and explosive flavor.. Taste-test winner. Hangs on the tree for 4 to 6 weeks. Pollenate with a Japanese plum. Estimated chill requirement: 500 to 600 hours. Patent No. 12097. (Zaiger) ---PLUMS--- I grow Weeping Santa Rosa - beautiful small tree (cut off any upright branches) delicious fruit, better than regular Santa Rosa. Laroda is supposed to be good one too. And Elephant Heart. You can always graft some other cultivars onto whatever you plant for variety (like some yellow plums). Beauty JUN 15 Sweet, flavorful plum, more widely adapted than Santa Rosa (more productive in coastal climates). Red overyellow skin, amber flesh streaked red. Ripens June in Central Calif. 250 hours. Self-fruitful. Weeping Santa Rosa Semi-Dwarf JUL 1 One of the most flavorful, aromatic Japanese plums when fully ripe. Beautiful 8-10 ft. tree, weeping growth habit - long slender limbs bow gracefully to the ground. Easily espaliered. 400 hours. Self-fruitful. Laroda AUG 5 Dark purple fruit similar to Santa Rosa, but larger and 5-6 weeks later. Excellent flavor, juicy, one of the best. Prolonged harvest: mid-July to mid-August. 400 hours. Pollenizer required: Santa Rosa, Catalina, or Nubiana. Emerald Beaut SEP 1 One of the highest-rated plums in blind fruit tastings at Dave Wilson Nursery. Light green skin, greenish-yellow to orange freestone flesh. Harvest begins late August in Central Calif. Ripe fruit continues to sweeten, becoming exceptionally sweet, but remaining crisp and crunchy. Ripe fruit holds on tree longer than any other stone fruit - two months or more! 6-700 hours. Pollenizer required: Beauty, Burgundy, Late Santa Rosa, Nubiana, Flavor King Pluot®. Pat. No. 9162. (Zaiger) Elephant Heart (NOT taste WINNER) SEP 1 Home-orchard favorite-large, heart-shaped fruit with sweet, juicy, richly flavored, firm red flesh. Dark reddish-purple mottled skin. Long harvest season-September in Central Calif. Hardy, heavy bearing. 500 hours. Pollinate with Beauty or Santa Rosa. ---CHERRIES--- I WISH I could grow Craig's Crimson! Whatever you grown, keep it small and throw bird-netting over it or you'll be lucky to get even one cherry. Craig's Crimson MAY Self-fruitful, natural semi-dwarf, perhaps the finest sweet cherry: dark red to nearly black, medium to large size, wonderful spicy flavor, very firm texture. Mature tree size about 2/3 of standard (smaller when budded onto Colt or Mahaleb rootstock). Mid-season. 800 hours. Pat. No. 7320.(Zaiger) Royal Rainier MAY 15 Large yellow cherry with slightly more red blush than Rainier. Excellent flavor, taste test winner. Ripens early, about 3 to 5 days ahead of Rainier. Estimated chill requirement: 600 - 700 hours. Van JUN 5 Very cold hardy, reliable, heavy bearing. Fine fruit similar to Bing, though usually smaller. Pollenizer required-interfruitful with all popular sweet cherries. 700 hours. ---FIGS--- I grow Violette de Bordeaux - my favorite, deep red, complex flavor. Janice Seedless doesn't compare it's just sweet, but good. I also grow Panache which is also delicious but I understand it doesn't grow well (taste good) everywhere. It seems to need a long hot season. Mission is a classic but it's a HUGE tree, I can't imagine planting that with two others in a hole. Janice Seed-Less Kadota AUG 10 New "white" fig. Large, sweet, delicious, light greenish-yellow fruit with practically no seeds. Prolonged harvest, August through November at Fremont, California. Suited to coastal and inland climates. Prune to any shape. 100 hours. Self-fruitful. Patent Pending. Celestial AUG 10 Purplish-brown skin, pink flesh. Widely adapted. Two crops per year - early summer and late summer to early fall. Prune to any shape. 100 hours. Self-fruitful. Black Mission AUG 10 The favorite. Purplish-black skin, strawberry- colored flesh, rich flavor. Heavy bearing, long-lived, large tree. Coast or inland. Fresh/dry/can. 100 hours. Self-fruitful. ---PEACHES & WHITE PEACHES--- So many excellent peaches to choose from...have a look at Bay Laurel Nursery catalog. Baby Crawford would definitely be on my list. Sugar May JUN 10 White-fleshed, sweetest peach of its season - mid-June, about one month before Babcock. Very juicy and sweet with fine flavor. High fruit-tasting scores. Excellent choice for early season peach. Medium to large size with attractive red skin. Estimated chilling requirement 600 - 700 hours. Self-fruitful. Pat.No. 8034 (Zaiger) Veteran JUL 10 One of the most reliable peaches for cold climates: winter hardy and late-blooming. Yellow to yellow-orange skin. Yellow flesh is freestone when fully ripe, and richly flavored. Harvest one week before Elberta. 900 hours. Self-fruitful. Loring JUL 20 Taste test winner. Superb large yellow freestone. Excellent flavor and texture, low acid. Harvests over 2-3 week period, mid to late July in central CA. Requires little or no thinning. Excellent for home orchard. 750 hours. Self-fruitful. Indian Free AUG 20 Taste test winner: one of the all-time highest-rated fruits at Dave Wilson Nursery fruit tastings. Large, firm freestone with crimson and cream-colored flesh. Tart until fully ripe, then highly aromatic with a rich, distinctive flavor. Highly resistant tto peach leaf curl. Late season. 700 hours. Another nectarine needed to pollinate. ---NECTARINES & WHITE NECTARINES--- I grow Arctic Star and so far I'm not thrilled. The flavor has been watery but could be culture (although I know not to water too much if at all when the fruit is ripening). I'd love to grow Liz's Late. I chose Heavenly White for a family member in Central Calif. and I've heard excellent reports of Independence. Arctic Star JUN 10 Early-season, super sweet, white fleshed nectarine. Low in acid, no tartness. Rave reviews in trial tastings. Semi-freestone with beautiful dark red skin. Harvest approximately June 10th to 30th at Hickman, Calif. Self-fruitful. Pat. No. 9332. (Zaiger) Flavortop JUL 15 Firm, yellow freestone with excellent quality. One of the highest scoring nectarines varieties in DWN fruit tastings. One of the very best! Ripens in mid-July in Central California, between Independence and Fantasia.Susceptible to bacterial spot and tender to winter cold. Large showy blossoms. 650 hours. Self-fruitful. Liz's Late Nectarine AUG 25 Sprightly-sweet, intense, spicy flavor - the State of the Art in fruit breeding. Overall score of 7.5 at the August 25, 1995 Dave Wilson Nursery fruit tasting - one of the highest scores for any yellow nectarine or peach to date. Late August to early September in Central California. 600-700 hours. Self-fruitful. Pat.No. 9437. (Zaiger) NO TASTE TESTS DATA....but still on my list..... ---PERSIMMON --- I did alot of research on Persimmons - I grow four in a hole, Chocolate (male blossoms to pollinate the "cinnamon" persimmons), Hiyakume (I chose this over Coffeecake because all reports were mediocre for Coffeecake), Suruga and Maru. I haven't tasted Chocolate yet (only a couple fruit but the squirrels have tasted it) the others are excellent. Don't miss out on Saijo - it's supposed to be like caramel, the name means "the best one." Bay Laurel has it. I'm not a fan of crisp persimmons, I grew up with Hachiya which is a fine cultivar too. Soft Chocolate Small to medium size, oblong, bright red skin. Sweet, spicy, firm, brown flesh, superb flavor-the choice of connoisseurs. Astringent until ripe. 200 hours. Self-fruitful. Firm Fuyu - Jiro ("Apple Persimmon") Medium size, flat shape, still hard when ripe, non-astringent. Cool or hot climate. Hardy, attractive tree, practically pest free. Fall harvest. 200 hours. Self-fruitful. Firm Coffeecake (Nishimura Wase) Anxious Fuyu lovers, who await the fall harvest with great anticipation can now experience an expanded season of delectable persimmon flavors. CoffeeCake persimmon, pollinated by Fuyu Imoto and ripening a month earlier, has a unique spicy-sweet flavor that instantly brings to mind images of cinnamon pastry, hot coffee and morning sunshine. If you are considering a Fuyu...plant it together with CoffeeCake for the perfect persimmon experience. CoffeeCake's spicy complexity contrasts with the delicate, sweet, flavor of Fuyu. Both varieties are flat-shaped, non-astringent, and eaten while still firm. Consider this: Romeo and Juliet, Laurel and Hardy, Mark and Sammy, sugar and spice, peaches and cream, CoffeeCake and Fuyu! Tamopan Large, flat-shaped fruit with thick, reddish-orange skin and light orange flesh. Flesh is astringent until soft-ripe. Vigorous, heavy-bearing tree. 200 hours. Self-fruitful. ---POMEGRANITE--- I personally wouldn't bother with Wonderful, it's just too ubiquitous. There are so many other "wonderful" pomegranates to try, do a search on GardenWeb, JoeReal has tried them all (or nearly) and has compared them. Wonderful Large, purple-red fruit with delicious, tangy flavor. Best quality in hot inland climate. Gaudy red-orange bloom, ornamental foliage. Long-lived, any soil. 150 hours. Self-fruitful. Eversweet Very sweet, virtually seedless fruit. (Even immature fruits are sweet.) Red skin, clear (non-staining) juice. Harvest late summer through fall. Coast or inland. 8-10 ft. arching shrub, or train as tree or espalier. Large, showy, orange-red flowers. 150 hours. Self-fruitful. Pat. No. 5418 Kashmir Blend Medium size pomegranate with light pink-red exterior. Ruby red seeds have intense flavor with no overbearing acidic taste. Plant has a slightly spreading growth habit and can also be grown as a tree. Keep any height with summer pruning. Excellent source of antioxidants- eat fresh or use in cooking. Requires 150-200 chill hours. Self fruitful. ---Paw Paw--- Maybe you'll have better luck but on CRFG garden tours the hosts usually point abjectly in the direction of the pawpaws and just say it's over there. Not much luck getting these to fruit in the Mediterranean climate. I hope this helps. Grafting is fun and easy to learn and do. JoeReal has a tutorial video on that too. Rebecca's Gold PawPaw From California. Large, late season fruit. Paw paws are slow-growing, deciduous, pyramidal-shaped trees with large, tropical-looking leaves. Fruit has custard-like texture and delicious, banana-like flavor. Harvest just as skin turns greenish-yellow and fruit begins to soften - in about October. ---lucia in west coco county ios_lrh@yahoo.com

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Quick tips for harvesting: Use estimated days to maturity, pod size and color, and ultimate use to determine harvest date Pick at earliest maturity to increase and extend yields Be careful when picking hot peppers to avoid getting pepper oils on skin Use a knife or clippers to prevent damaging plants while harvesting Pick promptly when fully ripe or damaged to avoid deterioration * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This FAQ covers basic suggestions for harvesting both sweet bell peppers and hot chile peppers. In this FAQ, a mature pepper means fruit that has reached full size and is mature but not necessarily changing colors yet, and a ripe pepper means fruit that has turned or is in the process of turning color such as red or orange. Fully ripe means that it has turned it's final color (usually red). Maturity Stages Both sweet and hot peppers can be eaten at all stages of growth but are most flavorful when mature and fully ripe. Hot peppers are typically green in early maturity but quickly turn colors including yellow, orange, purple, red, or chocolate brown depending on the cultivar. The different cultivars vary drastically in size and shape. Although they can be picked when green, their heat and flavor increases as they are allowed to mature and ripen to colors. Sweet Bell type peppers are can be harvested when firm and full size (at least 3 1/2 to 4 inches) but still green. If left to ripen, they may also turn red, yellow, orange, purple or even chocolate-colored depending on the cultivar. The less green you see, the sweeter the taste in both sweet and hot peppers. Once peppers begin to turn colors, they progress quickly so should be monitored carefully. Once they turn their final color, they deteriorate very fast and should be picked. Deciding When to Pick When possible, use the "days to maturity" on seed packets as an estimate for planning when to pick each variety of pepper. This information is also available on many websites that sell pepper seeds or plants. Usually the first peppers are ready to harvest 75 to 90 days from transplanting, but that will vary with differing growing conditions. Harvest can last into fall until frost. Size and color give you the best clues about when to harvest hot peppers and sweet peppers. Most peppers will cycle through different colors and shades while ripening. As explained, fully ripe color will vary depending on the variety of pepper. Compare the color of those you suspect are beginning to ripen with others that are obviously immature. Some chile varieties will develop "corking", or small stress stripes, on the pepper surface when they reach full size. This a great clue that peppers are ready for early harvesting. A few of the peppers which show corking are certain jalapenos, habaneros, Hungarian Hots, Chilcostles, and Fresnos. Often the decision of when to harvest is influenced by the intended use of a particular pepper. Depending on what the ultimate use will be, the best time to pick will vary considerably. Chiles to be pickled are often picked before they reach their final ripe color, so that they will stay crispy. For example, Jalapenos are most crisp when still green, so are most often pickled when mature and darkened green, but not yet red. Adding a few red Jalapenos when pickling makes a nice presentation. Serranos are usually used for salsas when green, versus red and mature. Sweet bell peppers are picked at every stage, but are especially sweet after turning ripe color. Cayennes are normally picked when red, and Habaneros are most often picked in the final ripe color for the particular variety. TIP The term "fruit load" is the maximum weight of fruit that the plant can bear. Fruit load depends on a plant's stem size, amount of foliage, and it's root system. When a plant reaches it's fruit load it will stop producing flowers. To increase the yield, pick pods at their largest green form early in the season. Then the plant will continue to flower and set fruit for a longer growing season. Pick a couple at different stages for your own taste and crispness test. Also remember that generally, the more mature the chile, the stronger the flavor and heat level. If there are any signs of sunscald or insect damage it is best to pick immediately before fruit deteriorates further. If saving seeds, allow fruit to develop to final ripe color, then leave pods on the vine about a week or 2 longer. This allows the seeds to fully mature. Choose large pods from vigorous plants, remove seeds, and let them air dry completely. This can take up to several weeks depending on the seed type. Store in a cool, dry, dark place. Harvesting How-To Some pepper plants are brittle and pods don't easily snap off by hand, so consider using clippers or a knife when harvesting. Hold the branch and use clippers or a knife to cut the pepper and a bit of stem off the plant. While not absolutely necessary, this will prevent accidentally damaging brittle pepper branches. Hot peppers are usually easier to remove from plants than sweet peppers, and pods are easier to remove when fully ripe. Pick peppers when plants are dry to avoid spreading any diseases (apparent or not) that may exist on plants. Picking ripe peppers will keep plants from slowing or ceasing new fruit production. Always be careful when picking hot peppers to prevent painful burns on hands. Any juice that leaks from the peppers can linger on your skin if not washed thoroughly and often. Once your hands start to burn, it's too late to wash and you'll need to treat the burning sensation. Also be careful to avoid accidentally spreading capsacin oil to other parts of your body. Resist the urge to rub your eyes or wipe your sweaty face with your pepper-picking hand! If you wear contact lenses, be especially careful. Even if you wash your hands after handling peppers, some pepper oil may remain and cause painful burning when removing or inserting contacts. And guys, carefully remove gloves before answering "nature's call" or you might be doing the wild chile dance soon after! If you do get pepper burn, rub isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol on your skin to dissolve the capsaicin and then rinse it off. Rub an ointment, aloe vera, body lotion, or even milk products like yogurt over the area. In general, you can soothe the capsaicin burn with milk products internally, and alcohol products externally. TIP Fresh chiles can be kept in the refrigerator for up to a week or more. Leave the stem on for best storage prior to processing. Store in a paper bag or wrapped in paper towels to keep them dry. Plastic makes the chiles sweat and spoil more quickly. Harvesting Tips for Specific Pepper Varieties Tabasco: Pick when they are the color of a 'red baton', hence the nickname Baton Rouge. The tabasco pickers on Avery Island, Louisiana were given red batons to match the color of the pods when ready for picking. The Tabasco is ready to pick when the pod becomes somewhat soft with juices and is easily removed from the calyx (the green "cap" that the pepper attaches to). Once you start seeing empty calyx's and stems you know the birds have found them and are harvesting for their own enjoyment, or they are over-ripe and dropping off the plant. Thanks to peppermania for this tip. Jalapeno: Start picking when they become a deep, dark green and are full-sized according to the variety description. Most are around 3 inches long at maturity. Some varieties display corking starting at early maturity and that's a great indicator that they're ready to pick for pickling. Ripening jalapenos will cycle from green to darker green, brownish-red or blackish red (depending on variety), then red. Red jalapenos have a wonderfully sweet/hot taste, but are less crisp in texture. Thanks to many forum members for contributing to this FAQ. Particular assistance was provided by Byron, dwalls, John_ShowMe_USA, NorthEast_ChileMan, peppermania, SanJacHH, and Terry_neOH. Additional tips or suggestions are always welcome. Image by: JohnT (John_ShowMe_USA)Jalpeno Corking and Ripening Colors