Almost all of the winter sowing I do is direct, Susan, so I can't really give you an answer. If I sow small seeds in the winter time in little containers and leave them outside, they rot from the lack of drainage in the container and the lack of heat and sunshine. Even if I sow seeds in containers too early in the spring, they don't do right. I've put acorns and other large seeds in containers and oak trees have sprouted, just not little perennial/annual seeds. So, for me, winter sowing is nearly always direct - I haven't planted any big seeds this year.
MissSherry

Miss Sherry I have some milk flower seeds would it be alright if I just direct sowed them?

You could try it, Dianne, but I'd only use half of them in case they don't germinate. I've tried planting milkweed seeds in cold weather, and they never came up for me.
MissSherry

Whre was my mind. I have milkweed seeds. I will wait until the danger of a late freeze is over.

It depends on the species of milkweed, too. Tropical milkweed (Asclepias curassavica) should not be sown directly until after all danger of frost has passed. Or, you can start it indoors in pots like Caterwallin has done.

Cold hardy species of Milkweed, e.g., Asclepias incarnata, tuberosa, verticillata, viridis, speciosa, purpurescens, Antelope Horns, cynanchum laeve, and many more, can be winter sowed. I winter sowed mine and last year I winter sowed cynanchum laeve and it did great.

The rule of thumb for winter sowing is perennials, biennials, and hardy annuals (those that self-sow). Anything less tolerant can be winter sown for me in March. I'm in zone 7a. I would think you could start sowing those seeds next month, in February, for your zone.

The great thing about winter sowing is that you don't have to "harden off" your plants before putting them in the garden. They are already acclimated. Also, seeds that need stratification (cold treatment) get that when winter sown. Also seeds that need scarification do as well. I have never had to "nick" a seed that is winter sown. That included the pawpaw seeds I sowed, which are very large and have a hard seed coat.

MissSherry, I don't know why your seeds rotted or did not germinate. I rarely have to water my winter sown seeds until it starts to warm up here. They are in little "mini-greenhouses" (soda bottles) which prevents them from drying out. Could be the potting medium you used, or just a bad season for winter sowing.

I have had more success winter sowing than with any other seed sowing method to date. Most hardy milkweed needs the cold stratification in order to germinate. If that is what you have, I would winter sow it, or at least put the seeds in the fridge for 1-2 months before sowing.

Susan

I wintersow just about everything. The things that get direct sown are usually those that I just have tons of seeds of. I don't usually have wonderful, wonderful luck direct seeding. Some years it does okay, but most years I'm greatly underwhelmed with the results. But usually that's okay, because they were excess seeds.

On the other hand, most of my winter sown seeds do quite well. I need to get to WM and get some soil and get started. Obviously winter has arrived!

Lisa

Hee Hee, Lisa! Don't I know it? I've sowed quite a few things - about 37 containers, but I have many more to go.

Susan

I have to admit that my wintersown plants have better germination, and tend to do better than direct sown.

I will never forget the fall that I direct sowed some Texas paintbrush. Not one of them came up in my yard, but a few plants showed up about 1 mile down the road! Courtesy of "bird poop". I was sooo mad. Anything direct sowed is fair game to the birds. At least with wintersown stuff, I have lids to keep the #$$#*&% birds out!!!

It's almost impossible to direct sow anything now in OKC! Too much snow/sleet/whatever on the ground. I have tried to direct sow larkspur which should come up prolifically. However, I got absolutely no germination and I sowed 1/4 oz of seed I got at Horn's. So now I winter sow them. Last year, I finally had larkspurs. I let them go to seed, so hopefully there will be more this spring. It seems they do better when they "self sow" than when I direct sow - sheesh! But, I prefer winter sowing new seed.

Susan

I don't direct sow anything! I finally got around to wintersowing this season; I did 12 containers of asclepias yesterday and a few salvias and vines today; I'm up to 20. I was planning to start next month, but if Pux. Phil is correct, I'd better get a move on (just in case). For the record, A. curassavica can be winter sown; I've done it for a few years now, and the few different varieties that I've wintersown, they all have great germination. I'm not doing A. curassavica this year; it only started blooming just before frost, I didn't get to harvest any seed, and the caterpillars didn't touch it. I'll line my deck with A. incarnata, which they seemed to prefer in my garden...

Tracey, That's very interesting about the tropical milkweed that you tried and the cats didn't like it. I know that people have said that the cats prefer it over over types of milkweed. Now I'm wondering if those people live in the south and if the cats know what would naturally grow in their area. I had a lot of luck with swamp milkweed and butterfly weed last year, and I'll also be trying tropical milkweed this year. I've started mine inside in containers and will be planting some outside in April and also leaving some in containers and sitting those outside. I'm curious now to see if the butterflies will lay eggs on it. I've only seen pictures of the plants and think that the flowers are very pretty. If Pux. Phil is correct, I'm glad that I started my plants extra early this year just in case.

I had great luck with tropical milkweed here in CT.

The monarchs preferred it over other milkweeds. I planted it indoors in late March at the same time as my tomato plants. I can't remember when they bloomed but the monarchs loved it for nectar as well as a host.

However, once picked the plant material wilts even if stuck immediately into water. So I would collect the eggs off curassavica, cut the egg out with a small area of leaf, and stapled it to a native milkweed cutting in a small vase of water.

Many ants patrolled the plants so if I didn't collect the eggs, I think they got taken. I only saw a few tiny cats, and just one large one all year so I started bringing them all in for protection.

I had blooms fairly early on my A. curassavica. However, the Monarch cats (the ones I "didn't find" loved to crawl up the stem in the morning and evening and eat flowers. Finally, Linda told me when to look for them, and I managed to get them before they ate all the flowers. I did give them flowers for a "treat" occasionally.

I would imagine in a cooler zone, where your nights are probably cooler than the nights in Oklahoma, the blooms might come on very late. I didn't get any seed from mine either. The plants set about 2 pods of seed that I was able to save, but other than that, they all froze (in marches CalSherry to save the day!).

I don't think it probably really matters whether you have flowers on them or not as long as you have something for the Monarchs to nectar on that will initially attract them to your garden. IMHO, they will find milkweed with or without flowers.

Susan

Maryann, I'm glad to hear that you had good luck with the tropical milkweed. Almost every comment I've heard about it is good. Now that you've said that your cats liked it, I guess there goes my theory of them maybe only liking them in the south. I'll have to keep notes on where I find my caterpillars so I know which ones the butterflies lay their eggs on the most. I'll still plant the same plants, but I'd just like to know out of curiosity. It sounds like I might want to keep a lot of the tropical milkweed in pots, though, if it wilts so quickly. Do the ants only get the eggs or do they also kill the caterpillars after they hatch?

Susan, I'm just going to have to train mine not to eat the flowers. lol I'm curious if I'll be able to get any seeds out of mine at all because like you said with the cooler nights...I just don't know. They might not have enough time for the seeds to mature. Yes, I know how CalSherry helps out. She was my curassavica seed supplier. :) I believe like you do, that the butterflies will find the milkweed with or without the flowers. I know you live further south than me, but when do you start your curassavica seeds? I'm hoping that since I really started mine early that they will get big enough, flower and have mature seed before the cold weather sets in next fall. Ooh, with a storm coming our way the next couple days, I don't want to think about the cold. I'm ready for spring.

Cathy

Actually, I direct sowed my seeds around the end of April. Took awhile for them to get up and then to really start growing. They're kind of like morning glories and sunflowers - they like it really hot before they really burst into growth.

Starting them indoors, I'm sure, will give you a head start on them.

Yes, it has been raining here a bit, supposed to get some snow today and tomorrow.

Susan

Susan, Oh, okay, I don't know what I was thinking that you had started them indoors. I'm hoping that I'll get a head start on them this way. I didn't plant quite all of them yet because I wasn't sure if I was starting them too early. Now that our last frost date is about two months from now (April 15), I suppose that I could start the rest inside. My problem is that I ran out of containers and will have to go get some more. I have all of my individual one and two-gallon ones used with my swamp milkweed started outside, and the smaller individual ones have butterfly weed and tropical milkweed in them. Then I also have 3 flats (72 in a flat) with swamp milkweed in two of them started outside and butterfly weed in the other one. Then I also have butterfly weed and tropical milkweed started in cups. I probably am up to close to 300 milkweed plants here, assuming that the seeds all germinate (I put two in each container), and I'm not even done yet. lol Of course, then there's the Chelone glabra, Zizia aurea, Zizia aptera, Heraculeum maximum, Foeniculum vulgare azoricum, and Angelica atropurpurea seeds from you that I have winter sown. I started some snapdragons inside, Blazing Star Liatris, also Agastache foeniculum and Blue Fescue (I suppose I could have winter sown those last two). I'll direct sow my lupines, zinnias, cosmos, and dill. There, I think I remembered everybody. :) I want to try to locate a small spicebush around here. I wonder if there'd be any harm in digging one out and relocating it here at the edge of our yard next to the woods? A sassafras tree would be nice too. Of course, I'm thinking about other plants for next year...I'd even plant a paw paw tree if I knew that I could get ZST up here, but my Butterflies Through Binoculars book shows their range ending around the southern border of PA. There are so many different kinds of butterflies that I'd like to attract here, but I don't think I want to dig up our whole backyard. :)

It's snowing a lot here right now. Schools let out at noon today and have already cancelled for tomorrow. I suppose the weather will soon clear up out your way. Come on spring!

Cathy

Cathy, a really cheapo container to winter sow is by using those waxed boxes from the grocery that fruit/veggies come to the store in. They usually have one or two in the back store room. I took that and then I used styrofoam cups and sowed my seed in those (be sure to make drainage holes in the cups and bottom of the box. Then I covered the box with some plastic (old shower curtains, etc. cut to size) large enough to cover the box and fold the edges underneath the box.

This worked great for winter sowing, too. The boxes are really sturday, might even be able to direct sow in them after you wash it well. The cardboard is not going to deteriorate significantly before planting your seedlings out, and it mainly provides stability for the cups. The only expense was the cups ($1 at the Dollar Store for about 16) and the potting soil I used.

By Monday and Tuesday next week, it is supposed to be in the low to high 60s! HURRAH!

Susan

Susan, You sure are the resourceful one! Great idea! Oh, and lucky you that you'll soon have warm weather. I doubt if we'll see high 60's here until mid-April.

You can also use freezer bags - the gallon size - to sow your seeds in. Just punch holes in the bottom (or cut small slits) and a few holes around the top (I just leave the baggy open about halfway). Put a rim around the bottom with cardboard about 4-6" high (to stabilize the bottom and hold it more open), and put in the soil and sow the seeds. Very easy.

For seeds that may not like transplanting, I use toilet paper rolls or paper towel rolls cut into halves or thirds. Put these in your container (like the wax box, or even the gallon baggies), fill with soil and sow 1 or 2 seeds in them. Then you can just plant the TP or PT roll plant and all. The cardboard will deteriorate in the ground, or in the pot, whichever applies.

Susan

Wow, Susan. You are quite resourceful. What seeds in particular are you using the tp holders for?

Linda, I mainly use them for my Morning Glory seeds, which truly dislike transplanting. But, you can use for any plant, for example the milkweeds with taproots would be a good example, altho I sowed mine in a container this year.

Dill, fennel, poppies, all dislike transplanting and while they can survive transplanting, planting them in the TP containers will deter transplant shock that these particular plants are prone to experience.

Susan