funkycamper - I don't mind "scolding" when it is deserved. :) We did consider our current layout with some minor modifications as well today - we are used to it and the only thing I don't like is the lack of landing space on the left of stove and that I always have to be careful to turn handles in. I also do like being able to work between the stove and the sink and looking out the window.

I read your comment to my husband and he asked me if I trust the opinion of people on the forum. I guess he was really asking if people on the forum know what they are taking about :). After I told him that I do trust most opinions given, he said than that maybe we need to scrap the corner sink idea after all if most think that is a bad layout. We looked quickly at the layouts from Lisa again (mainly K-1) before he had to leave and we mentioned quickly that maybe at the same time we could make the opening between the LR and DR a little bigger and move DR next to kitchen again. He is worrying about opening "Pandora box" once we start moving and rearranging walls and stuff.

I am frustrated with myself and our progress (or rather lack of) as well. I do not want to make such a big decision on my own and my husband usually has short attention span :).

Funky, I nearly wrote the same thing, but I gave up after a couple attempts because I could not figure out how to say it as nicely as you did.

This proposed kitchen is the kind of dysfunctional, small kitchen you'd see in an apartment. It is just going to be plain weird to have such a thing in a house of this roomy size and also very frustrating to use.

Edit: Margo, you and I posted concurrently. I think your attitude in response to funky's comment is commendable.

Edit 2: changed some wording for clarity

Oooh, was I rude? I was really trying hard not to be. I was rude to somebody else a day or two ago after about the 10th person advised them not to do something yet they insisted on doing it anyway and I've felt guilty about it since. Of course, it was after several glasses of wine. :)

Margo, have you met with any KD's? Maybe you are comfortable with some of the advice from the amateurs here....although some, not me, are expert amateurs....but it doesn't sound like your DH is. I think you should meet with a KD, present their plan(s) here, and see if between the KD and the GW experts, we can help you plan a truly functional kitchen that will be a joy to work in.

It just would make me sad to see you go to the expense and work to do a remodel and still have a list of 4-5 things about your kitchen that you don't like but you can "live with". Maybe one thing like that is somewhat allowable as most of us do have to compromise a little here-and-there but not that many. And certainly not that many which impact function. For example, my fridge is not in the most ideal spot but I get such joy out of the other benefits moving it has given me (more counter space and storage which includes a baking center, more open kitchen that feels and looks more spacious even though my kitchen is also small at 13x9.5 feet, more open view out the window) that it is a compromise that brings me more joy than it does annoyance. Unfortunately, I really don't see where any of your compromises end up bringing you more joy.

Since you mentioned Lisa's excellent plan, you might like to know that she spent about 7 years planning her current remodel. Yes, 7 years! It's not unusual for some of us here to plan for a good year or two before we start our remodel in order to get all the tweaks worked out. We've been actually working on our remodel for about 10 months. We're slow DIY-ers. But that's a good thing as we are able to work on one section at a time without our kitchen being out of commission and assess things as we go. We have made a lot of little tweaks here-and-there during the process because things don't always work out as well in real life as they look on paper. So, really, don't feel frustrated at your lack of progress!

Anyway, this is a major project and expensive and we all just want to see you have the best kitchen possible within your budget.

Oh, funky, you weren't rude at all! I am impressed at how nicely you said it. I meant I couldn't figure out how to do that. Everything I tried to write to explain the same thing sounded quite harsh.

As someone who has a small run of counter outside of the work triangle: yes it becomes junk drop ;-) I haven't seen your other plans, but the folks on this forum know their stuff!

I've worked in small kitchens and have to say that k-1 would work quite well compared to what you're deciding to make do with. Having a corner sink is the worst use of space. My guess is the KD's looked at your smaller kitchen and decided (wrongly) that it wasn't worth their time to put much effort into it. Life is too short to spend lots of money on a redo that is only adequate and doesn't make you happy every time you walk into the kitchen to make a meal. I know when I walk into my kitchen in FL, I am always smiling because not only does it look beautiful but it functions very well and it's not a huge space either.

Well, this is more work than you want to do, but for what it is worth, this is what I would do. You could do this with Ikea cabinets and laminate counters or any other inexpensive finishes that tickle your fancy, and this kitchen certainly wouldn't look out of place in a non-high-end house. The size of the kitchen is proportional to the rest of the house, there are no crazy features, and there is nothing inherently fancy about function.

• I swapped the locations of the kitchen and dining. Rooms with a lot of doorways in and out are good dining rooms since the table is in the middle of the room. Rooms with a lot of doorways are bad kitchens because kitchen cabinets/counters go around the perimeter of room.
• I moved the wall between the kitchen and dining over two feet.
• Between the wall move and dining/kitchen location swap, the resulting dining room is 4 feet longer than your existing dining room. Hopefully that makes it large enough so that you no longer have to have the dining room in the living room. This would mean your dining room would be accessible directly from the kitchen again, eliminating the need for a table inside the kitchen.
• With no table in the kitchen anymore, your actual working kitchen space is 3' longer.
• Between the extra 3' feet of length and the fewer doorways in the kitchen now, you now finally have enough continuous wall space to have SUCH better kitchen.

Kitchen Highlights:

• You have nice wide walkways throughout, so it will be comfortable for multiple people to be in the kitchen moving around and passing each other.
• You have ample counter everywhere you need it -- on both sides of sink, both sides of the range, and next to the fridge.
• The stretch of counter between the sink and stove (the best prep spot in a kitchen) is especially wide, does not have the dishwasher under it, and has a view of the backyard and lots of natural light. Should be very pleasant to prepare meals there.
• There is also 4 feet of counter on the other side of the sink, which would be a great secondary prep spot (plenty of room to work, access to the sink, not in the way of the primary cook).
• You have several ideal cabinets for storing dishes -- more than you need, so you'd have your pick. Those cabinets are all right next to the dishwasher (but not blocked by it) for easy unloading, and those cabinets are also outside the primary cook zone, so people getting snacks won't have to make the cook move in order to get a bowl, fork, etc.
• The microwave, fridge, and some of your dish storage are all clustered together with a bit of counter, so it will be convenient to grab leftovers from the fridge, grab a fork, and microwave the leftovers. (And all without interfering with someone who is actually cooking.)
• There is room for standard-depth fridge.
• The counter next to the fridge is extra-deep so its front is flush with the front of a standard-depth fridge.
• There is room for a 36" wide range if you'd like a fifth burner.
• There is room for a 36" wide sink cabinet if you'd like a larger sink.
• There isn't a tall pantry cabinet, but there is a set of upper cabinets and lower cabinets to the right of the range that are well-situated to store pantry items. That area is near the fridge (so all your groceries get put away in generally the same area, and when you go to grab food, it's all generally in the same area) and outside the primary cook zone (so snackers raiding the pantry are not in the way). Also, it's nice way to have your cooking oils and spices near the range.
• Sink and range are on a continuous run, so you don't have to worry about safety issues.

Other notes:

• The doorways to the kitchen and dining from the living room are symmetrical, which should look nice.
• The new doorway between the living room and dining means you'll be able to see through to the backyard from the living room, and there'll be a lot more light flooding between both rooms (dining and living).
• The larger kitchen window will also be visible from the living room and bring more light into it.

I have no specific layout suggestions @margo456, but just wanted to offer some sympathy from someone who's BTDT. I have a similar problematic space with a galley kitchen adjacent to smallish rooms, and I was on GW for several years before we actually pulled the trigger on a plan. I was posting originally under another name but I can still look back and see new posts every 6-9 months saying OK, I've got to get this done. We only finally did the project when I was having scary health issues - literally had myself discharged from the hospital to meet with the contractors! - and I half-suspect my husband thought I was dying and wanted to give me my new kitchen asap. (Luckily all turned out ok.)

Only you know what is right for you and your family. We did a pretty significant project (moved plumbing on a slab and took out part of a load-bearing wall) but we did not do anything half as ambitious as most GWers advised us to do (swap rooms, some even just said give it up and move!) We've been very happy with the outcome. I'm sure we could have been happier with a whole house remodel or something more grand, but for us, college & retirement savings have to come first. I don't know if our project was optimal from a resale point of view. I do know that it works really well for our lives right now, and it looks pretty nice too.

My bottom line advice would be to read all the great suggestions and then figure out your absolutes (for me it was a wider aisle and keeping the sink and range on the same side). My husband wanted to keep ours as minimal as possible and absolutely refused to engage in detailed back-and-forths on various plans, but once I knew how to get the best possible kitchen out of our space and budget, I convinced him to support what needed to be done. Take your time but know your own mind, and it will all come together. Good luck!

Nice plan, Jillius. (As always.) If Margo would like her kitchen to be hidden from the dining table when entertaining, this would be a perfect application for double-sliding doors or barn doors to be placed on the wall between kitchen and dining. They could be open most of the time for a nice, open flow and light-filled spaces but closed to hide kitchen mess while serving guests a nice dinner. Love it.

Margo, I do recall you were reluctant to move walls and other major changes. I just encourage you to be open to these types of ideas. Quite often, the cost to make those changes are less than people think. Of course, the could be more as well but without getting estimates, you can't be sure. The cool thing about moving the kitchen is that most of the new kitchen could be installed before demolishing the old kitchen so you don't have long periods of time where you can't cook or clean-up. That's a big plus!

If budget is a concern, you could do things in steps instead of all at once. Spreading out the cost can make it more affordable. And spreading out the construction definitely makes a project less overwhelming. For example, if you were to decide to go with Jillius's plan, you could start with just having the plumbing and electrical lines run to the proper new locations. After your budget recovers, then have the cabinets and sink/faucet/DW installed, move your old range and fridge into the new locations, and put down temporary plywood counters. Then demolish your old kitchen and do the other structural changes. After budget recovers again, install your new counters, backsplash and other finishing touches. I'm simplifying things a tad but I'm sure you get the idea. And there is nothing wrong with humble finishes.

I actually think living with plywood counters for awhile before determining those final touches makes sense even if budget isn't an issue as you can live in the room, get an idea of how the light plays, and realize better if you need a darker counter/backsplash, or lighter, more contrast or less, matte or shiny. But I digress....

I just hope you're feeling less stressed about this and realize that many of us take a long time to figure out what to do in order to get a kitchen that is functional, aesthetically-pleasing, and works for how our families live, and that there's nothing wrong with taking your time on such a major project.

Thanks, funky! :)

Wow, that is a very nice kitchen Jillius! It's amazing how much better a kitchen can be without all the doorways.
I keep looking back at it and I'm trying to imagine our lives in that layout. Right now we pretty much spend most of our time between the kitchen and Family Room. This layout makes the kitchen pretty much perfect but it also puts it farther away from Family Room. We'd also have to walk through the FR and DR to get to the kitchen with groceries from the garage.

I think I need to "sleep on it" and give it some thought when I am not tired. To be continued tomorrow :)

I suspect if you were to have the kitchen where I put it, you'd start using your living room more as your family room, so the essential connection between the two rooms would be retained. The current family room would become more of an away room or a den for when you want to escape the hubbub of the kitchen/rest of the family (especially nice to have as the kids get older).

With groceries, you might walk in the same way you do now and drop the bags on the proposed dining room table and then put the groceries away in the kitchen from there. So it is possible that the distance you carry them into the house would be basically the same, and you'd just have a little more running back and forth as you put them away? That wouldn't bother me, but I currently walk to and from the grocery store and therefore carry my groceries several blocks home, so I think my frame of reference is rather skewed in this matter.

P.S. I liked how you phrased "our lives in that layout". I like the mental challenge of layouts, but it is also so cool to think of people's lives every day being different -- better -- because their homes are more pleasant and functional thanks to Gardenweb.

If you prefer having the kitchen more central and closer to the FR, you could simply flip Jillius's design.

Yes, I know this means a bit more structural changes for doorways and moving the slider. And it means you lose a window in the kitchen although most of your prep could still be under a window, just not one over the sink.

Unfortunately, since we're on round 3, I think it should be obvious that the space you have to work with just doesn't give you good function. The extra expense, done over a period of time if need be, simply makes sense for your situation. Putting good money into a bad layout is akin to using stacks of $100 bills for kindling for a bonfire.

My kitchen is in the corner in my house. My living room is at the other end requiring us to walk through a large entry, then a dining/sitting room to get to our kitchen (or the alternate route through laundry/pantry into kitchen). My patio is off the living room. Maybe we're just used to it but the extra feet of walking to get to my kitchen really isn't an issue. If we're entertaining in the living room where I want to bring goodies or on the patio, if there are numerous items I want to bring out, I sometimes use a folding cart that rolls nicely on my floors (no carpet) to bring things out at once minimizing or eliminating multiple trips. But I really don't bring that out a lot as I really don't mind the walk and DH usually helps carry items out, too. Heck, I typically entertain so casually that even guests will usually follow me around and grab a bowl or platter. It's all good and works fine for us.

Just sharing all that because moving your kitchen into that corner really shouldn't have a negative impact on how you use your home, imho. If someone is in the FR and wants a snack or drink and thinks it's too far to go to the kitchen to get it, they really weren't very hungry or thirsty, right? And having the kitchen in the corner really does allow you to the option to use that nice, bigger space for a LR instead of being crammed into the DR used as LR.

I think Jillius's placement makes your home so much more comfortable for entertaining. IIRC, you don't entertain much but maybe you would if your home makes it more comfortable and fun to do so? This could be an example like Jillius mentioned that changing a home can change someone's life for the better. How fun! :)

smalloldhouse_gw – I remember looking at your
kitchen a while ago. It is VERY nice.

I have been looking at Jillius’ layout and
previous posts and layout suggestions and trying to rethink again of what I would
like to have. Unfortunately all the things I would like to have and my husband
would like to have probably can not happen at the same time. I would love to:
- have stove on the same run as a sink - cannot happen unless I move the
kitchen, or make the patio door smaller or remove, or keep my current layout. I
am so used to working now in my 12” of space between the stove and sink that I
am having difficulty figuring out how I would do it if the stove is opposite
the sink. That’s why we were considering doing the corner sink J
- have an eat in kitchen – I’ve never lived in a place without an eat in
kitchen. I always thought that people want and expect an eat in kitchen in a traditional
colonial 4 bedroom house. Most days if time and schedules permit we sit with
the kids at the kitchen table for a long time and talk (it feels comfortable
and cozy).Some of our best discussions and memories are tied to our kitchen
table. We are pretty casual and even when we have company if we can all fit at
kitchen table everyone prefers to eat there. We do use dining room often
but we do not have many big formal dinner parties except once a year on
Christmas Eve wen we have to add folding tables to accommodate everyone (that's how the
LR and DR got switched).

funkycamper - We have budgeted for the kitchen
re-do for a while so we are prepared for kitchen remodel but can't go
overboard. We have 2 kids going to college in the fall, husband has had chronic
illness for 9 years now and would like to retire as soon as he can (in 5-6
years). We also have to budget for other projects that we would LIKE to do - redoing
Family room and HAVE to do - redoing kids’ bathroom and furnace that are
original to the house.

I get it what you are saying about doing it in
stages but we just want to figure out what to do and do it so we can move on to
other projects. I am very handy and do a lot of things myself but
kitchen is a little too much for me to do it. I might tackle some parts of it but
I know that my DH just wants it done in as little time as possible. Any time I
do a project by myself it takes longer since I have to figure stuff out or I
just can’t do it alone because I’m not strong enough. We are not used to
spending a lot of money for work done in the house because I do most of it
myself (LOL).

Moving the wall as Julius proposed would not be
a big deal as it is non-bearing wall. The bigger issue would be the floors. We
have hardwood in Foyer, LR and DR and vinyl in kitchen and carpet in FR L. My DH also keeps
looking at all the other things we (I) would have to do. Painting, get rid of
and possibly buy different pieces of furniture, new/different drapes,
new/different lighting. I do all the custom painting and drapes myself that’s
why we can afford to have nicer things on lower budget.

With the dining table open to the kitchen in Jillius's plan, I don't think it would change allowing your family to sit around the kitchen table together. It just means that your dining table would be used for that instead of the kitchen table. People could still sit at the dining table and talk while the cook is near enough to take part in any table conversations.

I can't speak to the expectations of having an eat-in kitchen in a Colonial style home as I don't think I've ever been in a Colonial myself. We have extremely few houses around my area in that style. However, I would never give up function in a kitchen to satisfy someone else's expectation. Unless you're planning on selling soon, then that might be an issue. If not, I think you need to plan your space for what works best for you and your family today. It may be harder to sell your house with a dysfunctional kitchen anyway so these changes might make your home easier to sell. I dunno. Something to ask a realtor about.

funkycamper - I was typing I guess at the same time. Unfortunately flipping Jillius' design will not work (I already looked at similar option). There is a door to the basement right next to family room and if I had cabinets on that wall I would never be able to bring anything large in/out of basement. Now if we have to move furniture and stuff in/out of basement we just push the table of of the way.

We have not entertained much because my DH was usually too tired but he is finally getting treatment and feeling better so we might entertain more regardless of kitchen. Our company usually helps with everything including sometimes cooking and washing dishes not just bringing stuff out (and we do the same at their houses).

We are relatively active people so we certainly do not mind extra steps and maybe it would make us snack less at night (not a bad thing LOL ).

We did not get a chance to talk about Julius' plan last night but at this point nothing is off the table. I appreciate all the input and even my husband stopped freaking out and now stopped giving me deadlines. He still wants to make a decision of what to do and and if we are not ready to move with the kitchen by September than do kids' bathroom and keep figuring out the kitchen. Everyone's comments I read to him helped with that A LOT.

Jillius - when I do not have a lot of shopping to do I take a backpack and walk to the store for the excercise :)

funkycamper - typing at the same time again :). Maybe we don't like to sit at DR table because it is always open and long to fill that long space so it does not feel "homey or cozy" just for 4 of us. If we did Jillius plan the space would not be as big and we would probably keep the table small.
We have no idea when we might be selling the house. Definitely not at least for 6 years and likely longer. Good idea on checking with realtor about eat in kitchen value in this area.

You might take a look at lisa_a's kitchen remodel and what they did with her floors. They were able to add new flooring in her kitchen and dining and match it perfectly to the hardwood floors in the rest of her house. I'm sure she'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about the process.

Here is her thread:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3026310/buh-bye-old-kitchen-hello-new-kitchen?n=260

Regarding this:

"I always thought that people want and expect an eat in kitchen in a traditional colonial 4 bedroom house. "

Unfortunately, I think someone buying a 4-bedroom house would also expect a larger kitchen work space/more counter than your original proposed kitchen in this thread. Likely also a larger dining room than your currently 11' x 10' one, since that can't fit many more than the size of the nuclear family who lives in a 4-bedroom house.

You should definitely consult a real estate agent on the decision to maybe lose the eat-in part of the kitchen, but I usually operate on the design principle that everything you DO have in the house should be good. As in, don't try to stuff more in the house than fits and wind up with every element compromised. Rather, have fewer things that are actually good and uncompromised.

So for me, in your situation I'd rather:
good kitchen + good dining

Instead of:
bad kitchen + too-small dining + eat-in kitchen

In my actual home remodel, I picked:
fine kitchen + good living + large dining + bonus flex space

Instead of:
good kitchen + awkward living + tiny dining + nowhere for me to do yoga

Ha, I was also posting concurrently!

I wonder if you could recreate the nice parts of having a kitchen table -- small size, cozy/informal environment -- by having a small table that seats four in the family room. (Or in the living room if that becomes the family room.) Then it'd still be a warm, friendly, informal room. It'd still be a small table. You could still have long family chats around it. And it could double as a game table! (Who doesn't love Scattergories?)

Alternatively, I actually was going to suggest that on a regular basis, you might want to keep the dining room table in a smaller configuration than what I drew (remove a leaf or two so it seats 4-6 on a regular basis rather than 8-10). Just to have more room to walk around it and in and out of the much-used sliding door. So that dining table would/could be smaller for family evening chats together, and there is no reason why you couldn't style that room to be casual and cozy.

Obviously insert your own style here, but here is a perfect example of a table that could work as a dining room table, but has the feel of an informal, friendly kitchen table:

Julius - we are more sit on the floor "Settlers of Catan" type of family but we have been known to play Scattegories as well - have shelves full of games. Even if we don't play at the table I always wanted to have a table someplace that we can do a puzzle on and just leave it undisturbed for whenever we have time to work on it. Your plan is definitely growing on me.

I am getting ready for as we call it "European Invasion" (have 3 kids from 2 different countries coming for a month) and have to rearrange the bedrooms to make everyone fit - should be fun! However when I have some time later I will try to draw up more detailed plan of first floor with your proposed changes so I can show something more specific to my DH. He needs more visuals.

Thank you!!!

Glad you're starting to see the positives of Jillius's plan!

FWIW, and I should have mentioned this earlier, by knocking out the wall between our kitchen and dining room, we were able to eliminate a table in an eat-in kitchen that was really too small for an eat-in kitchen. This allowed us to add a peninsula which will have sink/DW for clean-up in it. So much more storage and counter space! And more open and fun to spend time in, too. We now use the dining room table for both casual and more formal entertaining. We keep the table small for daily use but have three extensions we can add if needed. We now actually use the dining room table more than once a month or so. It's used almost daily now. Unless the weather is nice enough to eat on the patio, that is. I love that I don't have a whole room that is rarely used and really served as more of a hallway on most days due to it being rarely used. I don't miss having a dedicated kitchen table a bit.

I could give Jillius's plan a kiss on the cheek, it functions so much better in your home! : )

To help with the visuals, I found a mock-up of a similar kitchen layout and doctored it to match what I drew for you more closely. I am currently at an ancient computer whose only photo editing software is Microsoft Paint, so please excuse the general jenkyness:

You could also lose the upper between the two windows and have matching 6' (ish) windows that meet in the corner like this:

Just pretend the oven in this picture is a range and that both windows are the same size as the one on the right.

Oh, MY! That looks wonderful. Were you able to mock-up the fridge wall, too? Would love to see an angle from the dining room showing as much of the kitchen as possible. (Good grief, I'm acting like this is MY kitchen, lol.)

OH! ETA that the corner windows are even better. Margo, if you don't need that small upper in the corner, do this! :)

Ha, I have only available to me what pictures on the internet I can find that already look like the kitchen I drew. I would be VERY impressed if google returned a picture of the entire kitchen already installed.

However, here is the fridge/microwave section:

Obviously, picture all drawers as your base cabinets. This is Gardenweb after all. :) You could still do a counter depth fridge here and just make the counter here 30" deep instead of 36" as I drew it. It'd be nice having an extra 6" of walking space, but I'm not sure it's so nice that it's worth the extra cost of a counter depth fridge.

This is FAR from perfect and missing the second window and a still a bit smaller than your kitchen will be (in my defense it started MUCH smaller), but here is the view of the kitchen from the dining room that funky asked for:

Jillius - all your pics are "perfect" enough to give me better ideas. I've also been working to try to figure out this layout. My measurements for walls, windows and doors are a little off and cabinet sizes and placement might not be great but I just tried to put some stuff in to have an overall look.

I'm sorry images are so big. How do I make the images smaller on Houzz?

I couldn't tell what program you were using, Jillius. It looks a lot like the Ikea kitchen planner where you can get elevation and 3D views. But, gosh, the examples found look fantastic. I really happy Margo and her DH go for this plan. That view from the DR is great. Add pocket French doors that could be closed off if you don't want company to see a messy kitchen and it's darn near perfect, imho. Good job.

Oh, just noticed your rendition, Margo. Very cool. Did you add a fireplace to the dining room? Lovely idea.

I encourage you to consider not having the upper corner cabinet and taking the windows to the corner. All that light would be fantastic in your kitchen and make it feel more spacious.

Wow jillius! I love what you came up with! Just proves how important it is to post the whole floor plan. You never now what you geniuses will come up with.

Margo I hope you and hubby like this plan. I really love that picture of the windows going to the corners too. Awesome!

Funky and I tend to agree on these things, so no one is going to faint dead away to hear that I agree with funky that the windows to the corner seems nicer. It would be such a joy to work on such a wide area full of windows and nothing in your face. I wonder if some bushes or vines or something could improve/block the view of the neighbor's yard? Maybe a trellis?

With five drawer stacks in the kitchen, you will have tons of storage, so I doubt you'd miss that upper. Aside from my one upper cabinet with drinking glasses, all my uppers are empty, and I have only two drawer stacks and an 18" wide pantry cabinet.

P.S. Don't forget that your range hood should be wider than the range. They look the same width in your mock-up. I wish I'd know that before I remodeled!

Rebunky, I totally agree about the floor plan. I won't even bother making suggestions without the whole floor plan now.

Oh, yes. The general wisdom is to get one that is 6" wider than your range so that there is 3" of overhang on either side. That rule is oft-repeated on GardenWeb, but I unfortunately learned it the hard way when our cabinet installer showed up and brightly informed me that the steam and grease from our range was definitely going to ruin the finish on the cabinets encasing and flanking the hood because our hood was too small.

Well, I was supposed to do something else this morning but could not resist the chance to play a little more with the kitchen design. I did not bother fixing the measurements and did not go crazy with fillers and stuff just wanted to get a better picture. Although I do like the idea of the corner window I don't know if we want to get into relocating Radon ventilation. The fan on it is a little loud so I might not like having it close to the window but do not want to have Radon in the house either.

With cabinet in the corner

With window in the corner

My DH did not see it yet.

Looks great!

Just a note:

The extra 12" of cabinets next to the fridge means it will be difficult to walk past the dishwasher when it is open.

Good point. Easy enough to get rid off.
Mentioned it to my husband and sent him a picture and in a quick conversation we had he was not crazy about it. The main point he made is that people want to always hang out in the kitchen in our house which we could not do in that layout. I guess we can always not put up any wall so it would be one huge eat in kitchen. I really like this kitchen design so I will keep working on it and talking to my DH, hopefully he will come around :)

I also called a realtor that sells a lot of houses in our neighborhood and he was wishy-washy about it. He will stop by next week to take a look. I might call another realtor.

I can't be the only one that gets a someone's kitchen stuck in her head, right? Oh, margo456's kitchen, I just can't quit you!

Anyway, I just randomly came across a photo of range with cabinets on one side and a window on the other and immediately thought of your kitchen. I'd been wanting to get a better look at that idea since I drew it for you. If at all possible, I think everybody prefers the space/comfort/airiness of prep counters facing a room or a window (instead of facing cabinets or a wall), but I definitely considered putting at least a 12" upper to the left of the range because I thought it might look weird to have no cabinets on the left. I saw that you added some cabinets there, presumably for that reason, and that makes sense.

But here it the photo I just came across doctored to be more similar to your proposed kitchen:

I actually think that looks quite pleasant and not weird. You could look out the window while stirring. And it just seems open and airy and nice to work between the prep counter and cooktop.

Also if you do put an upper cabinet in the corner, you might consider a glass door like in this picture. It is reflecting light from the window very prettily.

If you are looking for real life photos of a work counter with a window over it next to a stove, our former kitchen had that exact setup. It was wonderful in regards to working at it, and yes, I often looked out while cooking at the stove. : ) Here' our old reveal. You could copy and flip the picture in Paint to see what it would look like in reverse.

I am a bit obsessed with this kitchen myself, lol.

I am pleasantly surprised at how well a it looks with the uppers just to one side of the range/hood and a window on the other. I would have thought it would look unbalanced but, yet, it actually looks great. Better than with the cabinet, imho. But, then again, I am a window fan. Of course, Laughable's kitchen reveal is worth checking out for more than the window by the range. It's full of great, tasteful ideas.

Margo, I guess I'm not understanding your husband's concern about people congregating in the kitchen. Just like your current kitchen, this plan is still, basically, an eat-in kitchen and the dining table is close enough for people to sit there and visit with cook while being out of the work zones. I think it's set up very nicely for people hanging out there.

The only real difference I see between this plan and your current kitchen are the narrow walls between the kitchen and DR. Those could easily be removed or just made narrower so the wall ends where the countertop ends. Although, personally, I would want the one hiding the fridge a bit. But I'm not a fan of the looks of fridges for some odd reason so seeing the fridge from the dining table may not bother you as much as it would bother me.

I'm totally unfamiliar with a radon ventilation fan, how loud they are, and such. Obviously, if it's in the way of a corner window and is too expensive to move, then it makes sense to not take the windows to the corners. I would, however, really think about how much upper storage is needed and make the windows as big as possible. Yeah, I like windows. Even if there's no view, there's the light.

If you go with drawers in the lowers, you might find you need less uppers. I was amazed that a 21" wide, 4-drawer stack swallowed the contents of a 48" wide upper-cabinet with three shelves. And with room to spare.

I really hope your husband gives this plan good consideration. I think it's worth it.

Jillius - you are not the only one. I have my kitchen stuck in my head also! LOL
I can't decide if I like the window next to the stove or not. I like the idea of looking out the window while prepping and stirring though. And I thought about putting glass cab in the corner but for some reason I could nit find it in the software I was using.

laughablemoments - I love your name and your kitchen and the window looks great there. I especially like your old wood beams.

I also came across this picture that seems interesting for a solution of hood and cabs over the stove. Gives some more storage without cabs blocking the view of the window. I would not necessarily put windows on both sides but while I was driving around I was trying to think of all the objections my DH will come up with.

Objection 1: kitchen separate from dining, can't hang out "in the kitchen". So I though that maybe I could keep the wall open to the new DR and even put a little bit of the counter with overhang for a stool at least on one side since the other side has the fridge. I could put a wall just across the top to make more visual separation and that is what I have in all my doorways. Or I could put columns or glass cabs or something I have not thought of yet. Does that make sense?

Objection 2: too big/long/expensive remodel. Since we would have to re-do the floors (our hardwood is just OK, has been sanded at least once before and the previous owner installed it over particle board! squeak, squeak - grrr) that means that we would have to pretty much redo the whole downstairs. I can check to see if we can somehow re-use the existing wood and just add more but I'm not hopeful. The only way I thought I can keep the cost lower is to get cheaper lower end cabinets - I was going to get Ultracraft. Getting regular depth 33" since that's what we have now (but maybe leave the room for 36"?) would also save about $1000 I guess. I can probably hire just a daily worker to do some demo and only hire skilled people for skilled jobs. We were planning on renovating FR anyway after the hall bath so I guess it would just have to happen sooner.

Objection 3: no formal DR - I can definitely decorate it so it looks more formal but still friendly to use on daily basis as it was already suggested.

I'm sure there will be more objections from my family - the kids so far just said that "it's weird", whatever that means. But they will not be home that much anymore and it is mostly my kitchen that I am just trying to make nice for my family. If only money was no object ... one can dream. :)

funkycamper - typing/posting again at the same time. Glad that you are also obsessed.

I think you all just like a challenge which my kitchen definitely offered and I received so many wonderful solutions that I would have never thought of by myself.

My DH, although a great husband, takes a little time to convince to anything new or different. Often I come up with some ideas which he thinks strange/wrong/different and often he saw the benefit after a while. So I will try to be patient and maybe get more people on my side. Even after I told him how everyone on GW thought the corner sink was bad idea he finally said "I guess we will not do it then" (or something like that).

I don't love looking at the fridge but I would put a fridge panel, maybe hang a picture or something to make it not so obvious.

Is there something inherent to husbands about distrust of change? Like a free gift with marriage license?

My dad has instant negative reactions to ANYTHING different -- 99% of the time, he ends up loving later. Seriously, you move a single piece of furniture that can totally move right back, and you might as well have murdered someone. But week later, he can't remember where that chair or whatever used to be. With house changes, he now takes guests on frequent tours of the remodeled areas that he resisted every step of the way. Drives my mom nuts.

And my husband is almost as bad! My whole family refers to him as "Alex the Dubious."

I'm baaaack :)

After a crazy summer we are back to the kitchen project. My DH is on board for moving the kitchen as Jillius suggested - yippeee! He is even open to the idea of opening up the load bearing wall to make it more open floor plan. Sometimes it just takes him a little while to adjust to new ideas.

There is no final layout as I just started to play with it again. It is just a matter of how much and which places to open up the walls. Either way, I am finally excited about the kitchen project.

As I started to think about it some more I also started to think how I would arrange the Living Room since we had problems with it before. I posted question on decorating forum with some general rooms/walls layout.

I am getting closer and I owe it to all of you for all the great ideas.

Would you suggest I start a new thread with final layout ideas or should I continue here?

I think you should probably start a new thread so people can read what you're currently planning without having to scroll through a bunch of old posts. I think you'll get more responses if you can make it easier for people. In your new thread, you should put in your OP whatever plans you're considering for your kitchen as well as a plan of your entire floor and, of course, some of the other pertinent information people need to advise you. You should include a link to this thread if someone does want to read it.

I'm so glad your DH is on board with moving the kitchen. It's going to be so much more functional and attractive and really open up your house!