Shame ya don't live in Spartanburg. The Spartanburg Men's Garden Club is ALWAYS actively seeking new members (and is about half women). In fact, we just had a vote in June to change the name to something more inclusive, but our constitution requires a 2/3 majority of those in attendance, and we didn't QUITE make it (came close, though -- I was one of those leading the charge). The club's been around 60 years, though, and was all-male until about 15 years ago, and a lot of the old-timers (and many of their wives, who are now members) are just old-school. HOWEVER, our current president is the first female president, and many of the board members are women, and MANY of our most active members in our projects are female. At present, I don't think the club could do all it does without our many active female members. We're a very active club, sponsoring tree-planting projects around the county (and doing prunings and fertilizings for the same), sponsoring scholarships, all kinds of projects. Jeff

Mattie--I have seen the same thing re the wife relationships as you have, also. And assume there's a lot of financial help coming their way for doing the show--otherwise there's no way they could be doing half they've done. Dances--I may not have totally explained my feelings. Of course, churches don't generally turn anyone away, and I myself was sent to a couple of vacation bible schools every summer at churches we didn't attend. That's no big deal. Churches don't mind that, because each extra person is a potential future member. But in this case? The parents sat down with the minister and were VERY adamant about the fact that they were ONLY looking for socialization for their kids, NOT religion (well most church youth groups I've seen DO have some religion involved--they help out with church religious activities, they generally have a bit of a prayer meeting along with their other activities, etc). But I guess the thing I neglected to mention for those who haven't seen the show--we're not talking about 1 or 2 teens. There are what? at least 5-6? that's a lot of extra bodies to dump on a youth group all of a sudden. Churches are supported by their members--by their financial donations and more importantly, by their physical help--teaching, maintaining the property, helping organize various events, etc. To expect a church to merely give (youth activities for a half dozen extra kids) without the parents' participation is a little excessive, IMO. But yes, that's just one person's opinion. And I applaud the church for offering their services to the family. Mind you--I understand the issue. My mom and aunt grew up in a family that was not religious, didn't belong to any church. A neighbor took them her church when they were little. They were members of that church for many decades. When my aunt died in January, the minister told me she was the longest member (not oldest, but the one who had gone to the church the longest). If they hadn't been welcomed, many things in their life and ours would have been different.

Like Martin, I regard this forum as an informal book club to which I belong. I also belong to one based in my home town. This is a very education-oriented area. Our public library is the most active for its size in all of California. My own book club has no male members, and I don't think men would enjoy it. We discuss our books, often with surprising rigor, then spend some time laughing, drinking wine, and discussing what is going on in our lives. BTW, we read some nonfiction as well as fiction, though there is a bias in the fiction direction. We also travel together. Once a year we travel to meet an author and discuss his or her book, then spend several days exploring that author's home city. I don't always go, but have a very good time when I do. I suspect there would be very natural grumblings from spouses if we had men in the group traveling with us. Having said that, my husband likes to read. Some of his friends do, others do not. He does discuss books now and then with reading friends. One person from his bicycle-riding groups once proposed that several of them read a certain book, then discuss it. They did, but there was no follow up. I think that book clubs could exist that men would enjoy, but they would be quite different in character from those most women like. Rosefolly

Pammyfay, thanks for all the suggestions. I do have some of that, though I get awfully tired of murder as entertainment. I'll give Astronaut Wives a try, on your suggestion, though I didn't care for the promo. At least the lights are on! There have been some frothy comedies I've enjoyed recently. I'm not a big fan of the network faves like Modern Family (I really dislike the stagyness and the reality show style confessionals), but I really enjoyed Younger. Also You're the Worst, Odd Mom Out, and the new Amazon show, Catastrophe. The problem is they demand a lot more attention than the old Summer dramas. And, yes, I've taken to playing those cotton candy Hallmark movies! There was one last night. Appealing people, obvious storyline with the edges knocked off the characters. I like the realism, in some ways, but the lack of distinctiveness can be cloying. During last night's movie (doing dishes, catalogs, etc.), I was rooting for the movie star princess type to turn out to be the sweet one and get to keep her man, and the earnest girl next door on the edge of foreclosure to be the conniving schemer who gets cast aside, but that would be unexpected, and therefore forbidden. At least it's a change from all murder all the time and all those dark shows that are literally dark like they forgot to pay the electric company. In general, I like TV as a mental activity for while my hands are busy. I listen when it's music and it's too distracting. :) I really enjoyed the first hour of the Met's Merry Widow that was on recently. That requires paying attention, though, and I haven't had a quiet time to watch the rest. Most of the time I have the TV on, I'm doing a couple of other routine tasks (think folding laundry). This production of The Merry Widow is beautifully sung, and staged like an extravaganza of a show. They said something in the introduction about it being mounted by Broadway people, rather than the opera company (I assume the singers at least, and maybe the dancers are from the Met). The set is on two levels allowing the viewer to see what's happening in the back, like on an old fashioned raked stage, without making the performers stand and move on a hill for hours. They don't even teach ballet with curved arms for raked stages anymore. :)