For those still playing alone, kitchen revision #9876593
Thank you in advance for any comments. This is new construction.
Overview of layout. Bottom part is great room w/ 20' ceilings and 12x12' wall of windows. I've added a window in the pantry. Windows in dining area (only one in home) are fixed transom 4x2'. The yellow thing under there is 3 wall cabs configured w/ a piece of butcher block on top to form a sort of sideboard / buffet.
Overall length of the kitchen / dining room area is 28'6" and the width is 11'. That is an 8' wide slider at the end leading to covered patio w/ outdoor kitchen (12'x15').
Here is a close up of what I think is our final configuration. I need to meet with the cabinets guy in the next few weeks again.
Red reflects power outlet locations. Blue circles are water locations.
The dishwasher is not in an ideal location and does block the entry to the pantry, however, I can't win everything, and I think for the way our family operates, this is the best spot for it. We are a solidly 2-butt kitchen, sometimes 3. I have to have the cleanup area and prep/cook areas completely apart because 5 nights a week one of us is unloading the dishwasher while the other cooks.
Our children (7 and 4) are currently responsible for setting / clearing the table and I wanted to route them around the outside of the island to reduce burn dangers and keep the refrigerator accessible to the great room. Soon enough they will be unloading the dishwasher as well. A dish rack will sit on the counter likely above the dishwasher.
Under U1 is where the coffee maker will live. No other counter-top appliances or things to consider.
Here are the intended zones:
Red = cooking, Purple = prep, Green = cleanup. All dishes, glasses, flatware are stored in green zone also for access to set the table without being in the fire zone.
And here is a map of storage ideas:
Comments (8)
rebunky
8 years agoWow, you have come a long ways! I can tell you have really taken into consideration all the good advice. I think it is looking great!
The only thing that is really jumping out at me is regarding your bumped out section under that nice big window. (Btw, love that you added the window!)
I believe you want something to showcase your apron sink similar to this look (taken from your other thread), since it will be seen from the living room through the open isle.
On your layout, the window is nicely centered to the isleway. The bumped out section looks to include your sink base plus a 12" drawers on the left. The whole bump out looks to be centered under the window.My concern is that I have never seen a bumped out apron sink with the sink not centered in the entire bump out. Kwim?
I would try and center the apron sink in the bumpout with it centered under the window. I worry that will look strange off to one side. But, again maybe it is because I just have never seen it done before.
Could you do two smaller cabinets in each side of the sink base, all bumped out? Or maybe there is a 48" sink base that has little drawers on the sides?
You could store scrubbies under the sink. Extra dish towels could be stored in the pantry with just a few stored in either the small cabinets flanking the sink or in with the potholder under the micro?
Idk, what are your thoughts?
Jillius
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoI always hesitate to comment on kitchens that have clearly already been carefully considered because surely my concerns have already been vetted. But just on the off-chance this has not come up yet:
1) I prefer having the microwave in the same area with the everyday dishes (bowls, spoons, forks, etc.) and the fridge. It means you can get something from the fridge, dump in a bowl, and microwave it. I also prefer that conglomeration of items (fridge, microwave, everyday dishes) to be entirely outside of the cookzone so snack-seekers don't get in my space when I am cooking.
Your microwave is currently in your cook zone. That makes sense if you primarily use it for cooking (melting chocolate, etc.), but if your micrwoave is primarily used in non-cooking situations as mine is, I would suggest putting it by the fridge and dishes.
2) The upper cabinet above the dishwasher is not a good place for dishes. You will not be able to reach it when the dishwasher is open, so unloading dishes into that cabinet will be a pain in the neck. You will have to stack everything on the counter and then shut the dishwasher and then put them in the cabinet.
3) Have you measured and made sure that all your daily dishes will fit in the cabinets you intend for them? Especially considering that the upper cabinet above the dishwasher is more or less not going to work, to me it seems as if you could use a bit more everyday dish storage.
4) I would prefer the mirror image of your island like this:
I tend to pull out all my ingredients at once and then prep them. So, for me, I would prefer to have the long stretch of island counter closer to the fridge/pantry, so where I naturally drop the ingredients is also where I prep them. I'd never have have to move them again. Just grab from fridge, drop on island and get going.
As you have it now, where I'd want the ingredients to end up (the longer stretch of island counter) is too far to be the fridge drop zone. I'd either have to grab what I could hold, walk it to the longer stretch of island counter to drop it, and then rinse and repeat till everything I needed was over there. Or I'd have to pile everything I needed from the fridge on the 18" section of counter (which isn't a ton of room for all the ingredients in a recipe), then walk to the island and transfer everything from the 18" section to the longer stretch of island counter.
In addition to that, mirroring your island puts your two sinks a little farther apart. It's not a big deal, but it is a nice bonus. When the sinks are evenly spaced around the kitchen, a sink is always near you no matter where you in the kitchen. When the sinks are more clustered, they aren't always quite so handy to wherever you are.
And if ever one of the sinks is getting major activity, it is nice to have the other one totally separate from the hubbub so it isn't a big deal for someone not involved in the major activity to use a sink. Again, not a big deal, but it is nicer to have the sinks farther apart.
5) With the island mirrored, it also gives you some options for drawers that pull out towards the fridge. You could add some everyday dish storage (if you agree with my suggestion above that you could use more) or move the microwave drawer (if you agree with my suggestion above that the microwave would be better in the fridge/everyday dish zone and out of the cook zone).
6) I would also be tempted to swap the location of the fridge and the dish storage cabinets next to it like this:
I know that means the island is a barrier between the fridge and the cookzone. So this would definitely be a compromise. HOWEVER:
a) As I said, I usually pull out all my ingredients at once. And if the fridge and dish storage cabs were swapped, the island prep counter would still be my go-to fridge drop zone, and I'd still have a straight walk between the fridge and that drop zone. So I'd pull out my ingredients, drop them directly on the island and then walk around the island into the cook zone and never go back. Yes, it'd be better if it that were a straight walk to the cook zone, but a single non-straight walk like that would not be a big deal to me at all.
b) What would be a big deal to me is that, with the fridge and dish cabs swapped, the primary every day dish storage cabinets (U1 and L1) are now directly next to dishwasher. So unloading would be a breeze! You never have to move. In your current plan, there'd be a lot of walking back and forth in front of the fridge to unload. Not a big deal, but I'd definitely rather ease of dishwasher unloading vs. a straight walk between fridge and cook zone.
c) Also, in your current plan, the fridge door swings into a person washing dishes, the open dishwasher door, and the pantry doorway. That's a lot of activity for a little space, and I am not sure I'd want the fridge door to be adding to the chaos. With the fridge and dish cabs flipped, the swinging fridge door is in the way of almost nothing.
If you are the type to go back and forth a million times to the fridge while cooking, this swap wouldn't work for you. But if you are like me or you wouldn't mine becoming like me, there are certainly some real upsides to the swap without much downside.
Related Discussions
Revised floorplan w/ pic. Additional input requested.
Comments (21)I wish I had pics!! The kitchen cabinet-carts were in a rental house built by a retired carpenter; apparently his own idea. The counters were standard height, each unit immediately beneath the counter had a shallow drawer. Below that was the cart, an open wood frame with one end that looked like a cabinet-style door with a toe-kick but off the floor about ¼". When the cart was pushed under the counter, all you noticed was the "door" which matched the other cabinet doors. I remember there were wooden plinths which actually looked like the standard vertical cabinet dividers; the plinths acted as a stop so you couldn't push the cart through and smash the wall at the back. Most of the carts had adjustable "shelves" (shallow baskets actually) and two had a countertop for the top shelf -- I really loved those when I baked. I liked another of his ideas for some of the wall cabinets. The door of the cabinet was actually a shallow box with shelves (facing the usual shelves) that were just wide enough to hold cups or canned goods. I've haunted websites and carpentry info, and haven't found anything really close, although there are lots of cart plans available. So now I'm looking for a carpenter! Depending on which sort of crafts your DW is into, also consider adapting stackable shoe drawers -boot size-, maybe hidden behind bi-folds. I use these for storing sweatshirts in the BR as well as hold yarns in the craftroom. Sweater size hold flatwork. Link is to the ones I use -- I've got them stacked 9 tall with no problems. Here is a link that might be useful: all-purpose storage drawers...See MoreRevised Layout - Help!
Comments (17)Hello all, thanks so much for all the great input! Let me help clear a couple of things up: we will have only ONE 36" all fridge unit in the kitchen proper. I have an enormous pantry which will hold two freezers (we store a lot of bulk food). The reasons for fridge "A" and "B" was just a location thing - do I put the fridge in location A or B? There will be only one. I am considering a set of fridge drawers for a snack area, but only if they fit into my appliance budget. They are one of my "if I run across the perfect situation, maybe..." items. So, remodelfla, that helps answer your storage question, too. I plan on 99% (again, exception of some snack drawers) of my food, paper products, etc. being stored in the pantry. I want the kitchen to hold cooking utensils, dishes, and "hardware" items. I also prefer one set of wall ovens, for the reasons you stated, and just for ease of access. I don't want a range because I don't want to have to bend over for the ovens all the time. Bmore, I really like your plan A LOT. Can you tell me what dimensions you're thinking for the seated island you drew? I also like the idea of just a flat, uninterrupted countertop for the snack center, because we love to have people over just to hang out, and that would provide a great area for putting out snacks and drinks for people to grab as they'd like. I like the fridge location at the end of the sink run, by the snack center because it's easily accessible to anyone wanting to grab anything while I'm cooking or cleaning up on the other side. It's a little far from the main cooking area, but I actually don't think it would bother me. I am a Rachel Ray type prepper - get a bowl, dump fridge stuff into bowl all at once, carry over to prep area in one trip. Plus, again, it keeps people out of my way, which is a major plus. If I went with something like Bmore's layout, where would you guys put a baking area? Maybe to the left of the cooktop? I'd love to have one of those sliding backsplash doors with a recessed area to hold my mixer, food pro, and bread machine, and I'm thinking maybe I could do it there. I don't think it would interfere much with the cooktop, because generally if I'm cooking on the stove I'm not baking at the same time. Really, I think this layout has loads of potential, thanks so much for helping me out of my rut. LOL at my "ocean". I wrote it in as "clean", but my handwriting could certainly be better! That sink is drawn big because I was playing around with the idea of the 45" Kohler stages. I think, though, that I'm leaning towards a plain ol' 36" stainless undermount. You all are wonderful! Please keep the input coming!!...See MoreSharing latest revision of plans
Comments (20)There's a humorous thread that discusses the need for water in the Prep Zone (among other things) - Marcolo's infamous "Ice. Water. Stone. Fire." thread. (The Kitchen FAQs also discuss this.) You may have already seen these, but just in case you have not, see the links below (especially Marcolo's!) . Ice. Water. Stone. Fire (Looking for layout help? Memorize this first) http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first . Kitchen Design FAQs: Kitchen work zones, what are they? http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767031/kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they Aisle widths, walkways, seating overhangs, work and landing space, and others http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767035/aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-and-landing-space-an How do I plan for storage? Types of Storage? What to Store Where? http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767036/how-do-i-plan-for-storage-types-of-storage-what-to-store-where . Layout Help FAQ: How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include? http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information-should-i-include...See MoreRequesting review of revised kitchen layout.
Comments (33)Oak town, By exterior closet, do you mean the closet that's outside the "lower" wall of the kitchen in the plan? (In my version there's FAU's shown there but on the above plan I posted, they are not shown as such, but that closet is supposed to contain FAU's for two floors). I discussed that with my architect for alternative locations and it was decided that this current location is pretty much the best. By code, we cannot put it under stairs or landing. :( and we are not ready to put it on the roof coz we may possibly have a deck there. Also DH does not want them inside. To answer your other questions: - under stair landing is storage accessible from outside. I think it will be ~ 5ft high -- but if needed this space can be claimed by the kitchen or from inside. - under the stairs is storage accessible from the main hallway that connects the great room with entry. I had it converted to a pantry but took it out (in my revisions) because I realized that it was not giving me additional storage but was wasting it away. So I decided to leave the counter cabinet separate from the pantry. - The new under-stairs storage will be accessed from the hallway. So if I were to use it for kitchen purposes, I'd turn around the corner of (currently drawn) 48" cabinet and then access it. It's not super convenient but not entirely inconvenient either. However, I am open to using that for kitchen if I completely run out of space in the main kitchen. - 48' range is a bit much for me. I do not need so many burners and cooktop grill etc. I have allocated 36" but may actually get a 30". Will decide soon based on my trip to appliance store. Also micro is my most used item so I would prefer it to be at a more ergonomic height. - I need a compact convection and a micro in addition to regular sized oven and thought of getting wall combo to primarily make space planning more functional. In fact, I use compact convection way more than large oven due to my family size (2 adults, 1 kid, and not gonna change). - mama goose, the tall 12" cabinet can go if needed. I am much more interested in keeping kitchen related items first. Hope I answered all the questions....See MoreRachel (Zone 7A + wind)
8 years agoSorry for the delayed reply, I needed some time to digest this...
rebunky
I thought about the centering of the sink on that bump out, and until I see it, I just don't know. I can't center the sink on the window without reducing the window size, then the bumpout gets smaller, or a I lose a cabinet. I was kind-of hoping for the bump-out to kind of "excuse" the sink from being centered.
However, you are RIGHT. I do not need those drawers. I could do a 36" base cab with a 33" apron sink and just have a space near the dishwasher or something... I need to think on that and have the KD draw it up both ways to see what it looks like.
Good idea, and thank you.- can't figure out how to put the microwave over in the cleanup zone without messing with dish-storage. As it's really not too far, this was a compromise. If I do center that sink, I'm going to probably switch the micro to above the dishwasher. I don't want a high micro though, so this is still really the one thing that is a little out of place. Agree.
2) The upper cabinet above the dishwasher is not a good place for
dishes.You are right. I plan to use U1 and L1 as much as possible to house dishes. Do you think it would be weird to have L10 (end of island facing great room) pull out toward the fridge for glasses? It's not a huge drawer bank. I think it would look weird.
3) I have not measured my dishes, but I know that I have them in a similar sized cabinet now. We only have 10 plates, 10 bowls, 10 salad plates. That's it. I have some plastic-ware for the kids, and BBQ plates, that's it. I believe all of my "dishes" will fit in a single drawer. Drinking glasses, mugs, water bottles, they seem to multiply on me. I always have WAY too many. I'm going to purge.
4) re: mirror image island. I wanted to flow the food from the fridge to that first landing zone, then wash, then prep, so I think the sink is in the right spot. Also, I think the trash pullout near the fridge and microwave is a better location. I do like how the sinks are a bit farther apart, so I'm going to play with that idea and re-post.
6) I can't put the fridge there. It is where I wanted it. Structural issue with my open concept great room requires a massive post and I'd lose 1/2 of my only public closet on the main floor. I think the points you make here are REALLY valid though, especially regarding the unloading of the dishwasher. Valid-enough that I'm going to push to fix this issue I think. Thank you. For real.
Lavender Lass
8 years agoJillius
8 years agorebunky
8 years agoRachel (Zone 7A + wind)
8 years ago
Jillius