Very hot-button question. :) You'll get answers from both extremes on it as it is a hate-it or love-it thing. So bottom line - it is your choice. Tons of previous discussions here about it the search will pull up for you to read and plenty of info on the many, many alternatives available.

Dave

Are you referring to MG fertilizer or one of their other products?

MG won't do any harm. It's cheap, so the cost impact is minor. To many, who have some particular nutrient problem with a plant, and need some first-aid, MG is like dumping a hospital on it. If your plant improves, you never really know what you fixed. So it doesn't really tell you anything.

I'm puzzled. If your garden is growing great, and you have quality soil, why do you need a great addition?

I wasn't sure if i did or didn't need the great addition. It was just something that was suggested to me as an addition. I came to the experts here to find out what they thought. Thank you, all, for posting.

You will probably find that your garden plants begin to show signs of deficiencies as they grow. Most of us provide something as nutritional support.....the options are practically endless.

I prefer not to use MG fertilizers and would never apply it as a foliar spray, but careful applications of a soluble dilution at the roots will be taken up by the plant.

MG doesn't foster a healthy, living soil system and that's my issue with it. It's easy, readily available, and reasonably cost effective.

Before this friend mentioned the MG to you what were you planning to use to feed your plants?

Your "above ground garden has a mixture of Compost, Peat, Sand, Topsoil" has little to no nutrients in it and what nutrients the compost contains are only availble to the plants if you have an actice established soil food web going in the bed. So I assume you were planning on using some sort of fertilizer? Whatever you already have gotten may well be sufficient.

Dave

rhizo, if you dont use MG, what do you use?

Dave......this is my first garden, and I did not realize there was additional food/nutrients I needed to supply. So I have nothing ready. I planted everything just a little under 3 weeks ago. What can you suggest I used Dave, and how soon do I need to start using it? I did mix dried and crushed egg shells into the soil, mostly around the tomatoes, but I have done nothing else. thanks

weirdtrev, I am talking about the fertilizer. but you are right and I should have been more specific. thank you

Greg - All plants need to be fed and fed regularly regularly. It is only the method of feeding them that differs. So while you take the time to learn about the many types of fertilizers and the nutrient needs of your various plants, Miracle Grow All Purpose Water Soluble fertilizer (or similar products) used per label directions may be the easiest and quickest solution. It is easy to over-use and can be potentially damaging to both plants and soil if used excessively so just make sure read and follow label instructions. Is it the ideal? No way, merely a quick fix.

There are also many dry granular alternatives that you can use to side-dress to feed the plants. And 10-10-10 vegetable fertilizer is used by many. Dry products are not as fast acting but do feed slowly over a longer period of time. They are available any where gardening supplies are sold.

For those who prefer to go the organic route rather than use synthetics then there are hundreds to choose from and many of us who garden organically use things like compost teas and the various fish/kelp emulsions to feed as they provide all the requirements in a low-dose manner and are readily usable by the plants. Dry alternatives include things like alfalfa and cottonseed meal, kelp meal, dried seaweed if you can get it, etc. Just Google 'organic fertilizers' for tons of suggestions or use the search here with the same term to read many discussions about them.

But the long term goal as rhizo said, it to build a health, living soil system. This takes a few years to build up the natural nutrient levels in your new bed's soil and to create what is called a healthy living micro-herd in the soil of beneficial bacteria, worms, and other soil dwellers who work to digest the soils organic matter and in the process feed the plants. In that case supplements are only minimally required. That is done with regular additions of decomposed organic matter - compost, organic mulches, composed manures, leaf mold, etc.

Dave

You said that things had germinated and are all nice and green. But beyond germination, are they growing? Your plants will tell you pretty fast if they need something. Now, if you just planted three weeks ago, the seedlings that must just be coming up will still be largely being powered by the nutrients in the seeds.

I rarely use added fertilizers, even in beds that are made out of compost, peat and topsoil. I have canteloupes in a new bed that was prepared exactly in that way, and they are positively exploding, and covering beds nearby. So maybe I'm just lucky. While it will indeed take a few years to build up to a nice equilibrium, I'd find it hard to believe that your bed isn't mostly functional. That doesn't really answer your question about whether you should apply fertilizer, but might make you feel less needful for it.

Miracle Gro is something you use as a quick fix tool as needed with careful consideration, not something you just throw in as an addition. It is very easy to do more harm than good if not used properly, and leeches away quickly and does not provide long term benefits. JMO.

All plants do not need to be fed regularly, that is simply not true. Hell, I didn't even feed plants like my pumpkins last year, which are heavy feeders, and had no issues whatsoever. Bumper crop from huge plants. But this was in rich soil with added compost pre planting. And many plants do poorly in overly rich soil with too much nitrogen at the wrong times. I can also say this from my (albeit limited) experience. So, it really depends on the circumstances.

I would suggest adding some granular balanced organic fertilizer, like Holly Tone. It will help start some life to the soil and slowly feed your plants. I bet that is all that is needed. Of course, it depends on what you are growing. What are you growing? Ah I see tomatoes, they may benefit from some more frequent feedings... but it may or may not be necessary for general success. I am not sure also what is meant by above ground garden... is it fully a container, or a raised bed with no separation from the soil beneath it? If the later, it will quickly take on the life of the soil beneath it.

You will find that everyone has their own opinion about fertilization, even among the experts, and really it all tends to generally work. Most plants are not as finicky about the soil as gardeners assume, I think, and most tend to overfertilize IMHO.

<All plants do not need to be fed regularly, that is simply not true. Hell, I didn't even feed plants like my pumpkins last year, which are heavy feeders, and had no issues whatsoever. Bumper crop from huge plants. But this was in rich soil with added compost pre planting. >

Then they were fed regularly by your rich soil Peter. But that does NOT mean the need to be fed regularly is not true. They do and yours were.

As I said above "All plants need to be fed and fed regularly regularly. It is only the method of feeding them that differs."

I then added, "This takes a few years to build up the natural nutrient levels in your new bed's soil and to create what is called a healthy living micro-herd in the soil of beneficial bacteria, worms, and other soil dwellers who work to digest the soils organic matter and in the process feed the plants. In that case supplements are only minimally required. In that case supplements are only minimally required."

Please don't take my comments out of context just to dispute them. Thanks.

Dave

Apologies for misreading.

I stand by the content of my post, though... just without the dispute. :)

Greg--I would highly recommend that you do a basic google of what NPK numbers mean. They're the numbers you'll find on all ferts, and once you learn their basics you'll understand more on how/why to feed your plants. A good balanced fert is great for veggies.

Holly-tone was mentioned. It's one from a brand called Espoma. Personally, I wouldn't use on veggies unless I knew I had overly alkaline soil (I do use it on my potted blueberries) as it's for acid-loving plants and most veg prefer slight alkaline. I have used Tomato-Tone and Gro-tone with happy results.

A quick note on granular vs liquid ferts. Granulars are added to the soil at planting, or top dressed to dissolve down into the soil. They dissolve in water, but some of the nutrients require the soil-web Dave mentioned to become useable to the plant. They can also build up more in the soil if overused (as was mentioned with MG). Liquids provide a quick burst of nutrients that are more easily accessible to the plants, but short lived as they dissipate into the soil rapidly. They are often used in container gardening because of this. Many Gardeners, including myself, use both depending on the need. If you find a slow-release type or coated granular, they are specific and you have to really watch the directions to not overuse.

But again, compost is largely digested soil with beneficial bacteria, worms, and other soil dwellers. Mine is. I won't dispute the fact that soil eventually reaches a happy equilibrium, but I will maintain that good quality topsoil, amended with peat and especially compost, can provide needed nutrient levels. The "feeding", in this case, is largely being done via the compost. It is by no means clear that supplements are required at all in that case. I've done it. It works. History is rich with gardeners who had bountiful harvests without ever applying any "supplements".

Sorry, but I just have a problem with the idea that supplements are, at the least, "minimally required".

If you get a soil test, and find some deficiency, then go treat it with supplements until, perhaps, your soil reaches that happy equilibrium.

Dan you are making some broad assumptions about the quality of compost. That somehow anything that is called compost is "largely digested soil with beneficial bacteria, worms, and other soil dwellers. We all know that the quality of compost varies widely. Comparing my home made active compost to that stockpiled stuff available from some city or even to that from local landscapers is the difference between night and day.

And the quality of "topsoil"? Well documented as meaning just about anything the color of dirt.

And do you really think that comparing an established bed with a well develop soil food web to a brand new just created bed is a fair comparison? Sorry but I sure don't. Check out the studies done on production in the same beds when something like fish meal, or tilled in clover green manure, or kelp meal, or azomite can make.

You may be happy with the quality and production of your beds without any organic supplemental feedings. That's great. But have you tried any supplements for a valid comparison? But it doesn't make it the same for all by any means. And if even certified organic gardeners don't have to resort to organic supplements now and then one has to wonder why they spend so much money on them. :)

Dave

There is a vein, in this discussion, that runs towards the famous "vitamin myth", wherein since certain chemicals (abbreviated by capital letters) are deemed necessary to healthy life, we worship them, and feel the need to consume supplements of them, and the more the better.

I'm not saying that garden supplements are worthless, but just that the purpose that they serve is to fix known deficiencies. Not as a plaster for maybe-deficiencies. I do occasionally use them, to fix known deficiencies.

That's exactly right, that the quality of compost and topsoil varies. My point was aimed at the idea that, at the least, when soil conditions are very good, "supplements are only minimally required." I think that's what you said. I'm just saying that, at the least, with good soil and compost, they are actually not required at all.

Ok I'll compromise :) and say "seldom required" since that is what I meant by "minimally". But sorry I just can't buy into "not required at all" since they are used to fix known deficiencies. In my case that is a heavily skewed alkaline pH resulting in chronic problems with P, K, Zinc, and Mg. This despite many decades of amending the beds with leaf mold and barnfulls of compost and composted manure. So while I have excellent soil quality it still requires some supplements now and then.

You and I may be able to recognize those deficiencies in our plants and address them only as needed. But someone new to gardening cannot recognize them, even when severe, so in those cases a bit of extra goodies in the soil can prevent the loss of their crop. Hopefully, in the mean time they will educate themselves about the symptoms of nutrient deficiency and learn to only use supplements as needed.

Dave

Greg, unless you are willing to put in a good amount of effort, and what can for many a new gardener mean quite a bit of money, it's often best to learn and build a good soil over time.

The learning will include a decision to grow, or not to grow organically, and to what extent that is important to you and your family.

Many, like myself, religiously avoid what we consider poisons - such as chemical herbicides and pesticides. However, if someone where to give me synthetic fertilizers such as MG, I wouldn't turn it down. Because I have a personal issue with supporting that industry, I wouldn't purchase such products, and I even recommend that others avoid such products. However, even today I added a 6-12-12 farm co-op synthetic fertilizer to my eggplants. It was free, and would have gone to a landfill had I not 'rescued' it. Chemically speaking, for the most part, as long as it's used as a supplement instead of the 'backbone' of the soil structure, the differences between synthetic and organic fertilizers are hardly worth the arguments that sometimes arise. I'll sparingly use that fertilizer until it's gone. Using such products on decorative houseplants is more practical for many who are just starting out.

I have found that organics are much 'better' (well rounded, higher buffering capacity, supports the natural environment in which the plants have evolved to grow, etc, etc...) for my life-style and the health of the garden.

As others have suggested, MG will not truly replace a good soil, but it will support plant life. In fact, for plants to grow and - depending on your personal definitions - thrive, soil isn't required at all. Hydroponics prove that assertion.

As for 'quality soil' brought into your space, unless you know the history of that product forget that word 'quality'. Even the best store-bought top soils are lacking in many nutrients.

Depending on where you live and what was done to it in the past, your regular backyard 'dirt' may be better. I have clay where I live, and while it lacks organic matter, it is EXTREMELY nutritious.

So, learn what organic matter is available to you locally. Start and learn about your own compost piles. One good rule of thumb (and yes this is simplistic,) for a long-term healthy garden, feed the worms, not the plants. Then learn about the conditions each plant enjoys and make the minor adjustments accordingly. Next year, very early, get a soil test done. Learn what and how to add organics to your soil. Try not to over-think it. Forests and natural environments do quite nicely by just dropping last year's growth on the top of the ground.

The key to nature, as others have suggested, is the structure and biology of the soil. Worms, good bugs, fungi, bacteria and soil microbes are where it's at. Learn how to 'farm' those critters and you'll do well.

As for now, if you notice pale colors, or the plants seem to be showing unhealthy signs, the internet is a modern gardener's friend. Search the conditions you see, and act accordingly. As you've already done, ask questions. If you choose, add synthetic supplements such as MG erring on the side of less-can-be-more. It's easy to add more after a week or so, but sometimes quite impossible to remove. Read the labels as especially the liquids have a high bio-availability. Since you jumped in, if you do notice issues, synthetics can get you through the early days and even benefit the plants until you can improve your knowledge and skill.

rgreen, what a useful, thoughtful response! Good job.

Thank you Dave, I agree with your compromise. I'm just trying to avoid the presumption that supplements are a "must". Not to get too semantic here, but I think one consideration here is the word "required". What a market gardener "requires" is not necessarily what an average home gardener "requires". The market gardener can't be satisfied with 80% performance. That's 20% loss of profit. I myself am not going to get worried about 80% performance, and am unlikely to spend real money and running out to the garden center to try to achieve that 100%. It's just not important to me.

I actually think a home gardener might aspire to a garden that doesn't require bottles of this and bags of that. That goes for pesticides and herbicides as well as supplements. I'm especially proud of a crop that MY topsoil and MY compost and MY mulch produced. I'm less proud of a crop that has a shelf of bottles and bags or store-bought stuff that I've convinced myself that my crop relied on. I think a market gardener probably wouldn't care about that. So it kinda depends where you're coming from.

Again, I think supplements ought to be used to treat recognized deficiencies, and if you don't recognize any, don't bend over backwards trying to find them.

Thank you rhizo.