Thanks for clarifying. I don't think the girls got any help. They were probably told they need to forgive him and keep it secret.

I found this screenshot from a show quoting Jana. She was supposedly talking about her little sister kicking her bed when she was a kid, but it seems awfully emotional for that. Makes me wonder if she was talking about having to forgive the abuse.

http://i.imgur.com/3WeX7aD.png

Snidely......I don't think it's so much that people "care" as being dumbstruck by people who have portrayed themselves as devout Christians and then covered up their son molesting their daughters. No doubt those girls were told to keep mum for the sake of the family reputation, religion, and money. Hopefully, we've heard the last of the Duggars...I only wish they would take the Kardashians with them!

TLC has pulled the show from it's schedule!
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/tlc-pulls-19-kids-and-counting-in-wake-of-josh-119614188615.html

joanie, you know as well as I do that there's an excess of people in our communities who do unbelievably stupid things. Who fail to understand and manage themselves for even the simplest and most undemanding aspects of adult life. Those who basically fail to stay between the lines of the lanes for the highway of normal modern life.

Also those who are famous for being famous, they do outrageous things as their occupation or way of being in the public eye.

What some do isn't shocking, interesting or even mildly amusing in my mind. Who cares? They and their programs and stories are irrelevant, easy to bypass.

The other aspect you mention, the hypocrisy of those whose self-identity is as a devout adherent of any religion, goes without saying. In my experience, that unfortunately describes more of them than not.

What I don't understand is why people spend even a nanosecond reading and then posting on a subject they claim to have no interest in. Just come to terms with the fact that other people are interested in the topic and scroll on by.

I wonder if he's still planning on running for office? And they kept it under wraps long enough to outwait the statute of limitations on the offenses, both for the kid and the father. But his reported net worth of $500k might be going down a few bucks since civil lawsuits can still come and I wouldn't be surprised if they're looming. Gloria Allred was representing the ones accusing Bill Cosby. Maybe she's going to get involved here. There might be a movie in the making. "Bill and Josh's Excellent Adventures"

There's also a lot of speculation on whether he was sexually abused/molested when he was younger, which wouldn't surprise me in the least. I must be the only one who thinks "creepy" doesn't begin to describe this group. I mean, really, the father giving the kids "kissing lessons"??? (shudder) And groups like this seem to hide behind the religion a lot.

But at least it was good to hear that he got redemption and all is well now. As do, I understand the priests who rape alter boys from the way many of them talk.

Also curious is the cop who apparently didn't charge him when brought to his attention has had his own issues of molestation charges and pornography charges. As I understand, the cop is doing 60 years now or something like that. Guess his deity didn't give him the same redemption.

It's a strange, strange world in which we live.

There will soon be a new reality show highlighting the sister's experiences with that bad brother. I will NOT watch it.

Graywings, I read this whole thread because I'm interested in what the KT people have to say. One can't help but be aware of people in question if one watches any TV, but I don't have any particular interest in them or their show. What KT members have said, however, is interesting.

Regarding "famous Christians" and their public sins, I think there are a few parts of that. Some "Christians" (people who call themselves "Christian" though don't appear to act like it) use the prospect of an all forgiving God to forgo taking responsibility for their actions. They think it's okay to give in to wrong impulses because they will ultimately be forgiven, eschewing all warnings about letting in the devil. Another part is that there's a big difference between talking pious and being pious. A difference between striving to be seen as a Christian and being a Christian. Most good Christians I know don't brag about it or show it off, they just live it. Most of all, rectitude is generally boring. The pursuit of fame and/or position is about drama and braggadocio.

I just saw the Yahoo news, and their show on TLC has been cancelled.

I've avoided all mention of these people and their supposed 'fame'. I did see this man's 'apology' on a TV crawl. I was struck by his use of the passive voice -- a must for any guy avoiding responsibility for his sexual crimes.

"Things happened." Vague is good. Never OWN the evil you have done or recognize the extent of the harm you have caused.

…and Mama June would have sued if they didn't cancel it!

Counseling can have many different interpretations, though. That's the problem. If they were taken to certified and trained therapists outside of their religious group, then that's one thing.

But I'm guessing they had some sort of faith-based counseling considering Josh was sent to do hard labor for a few months for his "counseling". I don't buy for a second that these girls received proper counseling from qualified therapists who specialize in sexual abuse, and who actually know what they are talking about and won't shame the victims or try to force them to forgive for the sake of the family.

So true, chi83!
These abused young girls were thrown under the bus to preserve the image of a "good" Christian family. Dreadful and so tragic for the girls.

Josh, of course, worked a few months, and put it behind him. Sick.

Wolfie said, "Lindsey, his apologizes are all over the internet so I would say that is proof enough"

No, it is not. He has admitted to wrongdoing, but he has not come out and said that he did anything to any of his sisters. One can easily infer that he did, but it just as easily can be inferred that the victims were friends of his sisters, who were at the house for a sleepover.

JoaniePoanie wrote, "One report said Jim Bob entered 'a girl's room' and caught Josh."

I haven't read that particular report. I have, however, read several reports that said that Jim Bob saw Josh coming out of the girls' room very late at night when, obviously, he shouldn't have been there.

Pillog, my comments were not directed at you. They were directed at the person who wrote these comments:

This is all about white trash exploitation and voyeurism . Why does anyone care?
and
I can't come close to understanding why anyone pays attention to these
losers and others like them who are constantly on TV and in the media.
and
What some do isn't shocking, interesting or even mildly amusing in my
mind. Who cares? They and their programs and stories are irrelevant,
easy to bypass.

I feel that this person comes across as denigrating those who choose to read and maybe post on the subject. Why would you post twice on a thread that you clearly feel is not worth your time? That's what I don't get.

It reminds me of the person who will post on the threads about specific TV shows to remind us that he/she doesn't own a television or only watches the weather on TV. That's fine, but why bother to tell others that in the context of a discussion about a particular TV show?

There are lots of things I don't do or am not interested in. The idea of juicing your vegetables doesn't make sense to me, but it's popular and lots of people seem to do it. And if they want to discuss it, they should not have to hear from me about how I prefer to chew my vegetables. I have nothing to say to add value to their conversation.

I don't agree with the Duggars on many things. They are getting a lot of criticism here. I'm wondering what you would have done if you were in their place. They are a family. Something bad happened. It reportedly involves six of their children. The perpetrator and victims are all their children. What would you have done? Would you have called the police?... Put your male child in foster care where he potentially might be subjected to worse things?... Put everyone in counseling?... Tried your hardest to keep the family together and deal with the situation the best you could so you could move forward as a family?

I'm not sure what steps I would have taken in their positions. They are not perfect people. I think they dealt with it in the manner that they thought was best to move forward as a family. No matter what actions they took, they couldn't undo what had been done. What Josh did was wrong. As parents, they had an obligation to him too.

I think if it had happened once when he was a young teen (inappropriate touching) I would have been more understanding. But surely they should have realized after the second and third and fourth and fifth and sixth time that the "pray it out and sweat it out" method isn't working.

I understand they didn't want to ruin his life over it but at what cost? I think people who have never been sexually assaulted, especially as a child and especially by someone you know and trust, can't understand what it can do to you for the rest of your life. Especially when your parents seem to choose protecting the abuser over you and you are expected to forgive and keep the secret. The oldest was 12 and the youngest was 4.

If all the children had been put in real therapy, done by professionals, and not church leaders, I would probably feel a lot differently.

I've never been a fan of this show. Just too goody-goody. And I read just today that their show may soon be off the air, the network has already announced they will not be re-running any older episodes. Kinda reminds me of what happened with Bill Cosby.

"I don't agree with the Duggars on many things. They are getting a lot of criticism here. I'm wondering what you would have done if you were in their place. They are a family. Something bad happened. It reportedly involves six of their children. The perpetrator and victims are all their children. What would you have done? Would you have called the police?... "

If it had happened to my family, I probably would not have called the police the first time I was aware it had happened.

I would certainly do more then pray over the situation. I would have found a licensed, qualified person who could actually do counseling for my children. (The VICTIMS included.)

I also would not have 19 children, putting other children in charge of the younger ones.

I would not have become a spokesperson alerting voters to the harm that can be done by those in the LBGT community to children, knowing that my child has already harmed at least 5 small children.

There's a whole lot more that I would have and would not have done.

ML

Amen, Maddielee!

O! The hypocrisy! Isn't it expected whenever people project a perfect (false) face? Anything that conflicts with the pretense has to be hidden. The face is all important. This is common in religious cults. It's a soul-killer.

I'm playing The Beatles' "Eleanor Rigby" in my mind -- the line about "...her face, which she keeps in a jar by the door." The refrain is: "All the lonely people..."

Does it take a certain type of personality flaw/defect/problem to even want to live a life in front of TV cameras? Not short-term things like Big Brother/Survivor type shows, but to allow the cameras into your home and live your life out in public. It seems that there's a psychopathic personality that thinks he/she can get away with it, put on a false front. All these shows have devolved into some form of spectacle when truths are revealed, be it Mama June or the housewife in New Jersey or the Duggars. ALl people who thought that they could get away with something. Next time a new show comes along, think twice about what secrets are being shoved into the closet.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath

From the article: "Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy
with others, although they often have disarming or even charming
personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain
people’s trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to
actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people.
Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so
good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other
long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their
true nature"

Not all the victims were is sisters.

Debby_ab "Not all the victims were is sisters."....does it really matter if they were or if they weren't? Wrong is just plain wrong.

I think four were sisters....but no, it does not matter. My son's friend works for a production co in Hollywood and said all these "reality" shows are scripted.....for ratings, of course.

Sushipup, I don't know if the behavior rises to a psychiatric level, but I agree with you that there's an arrogance involved in wanting to play out your life in front of cameras. For these people, however, I'm sure the money was a big factor. I don't blame them hiding the incident from public notice. It's whether or not they handled it appropriately in private that we don't know for sure, even though we're passing judgment. I agree that the scenario suggested sounds likely, but we don't know.

Most people have shameful secrets. Some are less serious because they don't involve harm to others, or worse, harm to children. Being on an unscripted show or a politician or a particularly successful religious leader is a good way to be sure that those secrets will be hung out in public. The inability to recognize that, or to think one is above it, is the arrogance that goes before the scandal. I don't think it's all psycopathic, but surely sometimes it is.

The what would you do question is very difficult. Even if you educate kids well, and prepare them for what's happening as they mature, and teach them right from wrong including the reasoning why (e.g., not harming others), and try to teach them impulse control, you can't be sure that you're not going to have a kid who's just off, and does things that are beyond shameful. There's an argument that the perpetrator needs more attention and affection than the victim, though most will say that doesn't matter because the victim is the innocent. Is couselling sufficient to "fix" a kid who acted in a predatory manner to his sisters? (The WWYD question was framed for perpetrator and victim both being one's children.) I think I would be so freaked out about that--not the act as much as the singling out of victims...and that would go for any child, not just the sisters...that I don't know how I would be able to deal fairly with the perpetrator. As has been said, removing him from the home to a place where who knows what might happen to him is not a good choice either. If the grandparents had a farm where he could go sublimate his urges in hard work, that would be ideal. There are messed up kids who do straighten out as adults, and maybe he would (especially with the right kind, quality and amount of counselling), but in the meantime? And if there's no proverbial farm? Or trusted, childfree adults to foster him with? I don't know. How can one. What a horrible situation.

Do you think they needed to go on TV to pay for the counselling?

I see their street address is not blocked out in the police report which is online. That can't be good.

I haven't read every word, so please excuse if I'm repeating.

I just read on Yahoo News that Joshua's comment was that his adviser (the cop who's now in jail for possession of child porn) told him (paraphrasing) that "if I didn't stop t would mess up my whole life".

nothing about the lives he's already messed up.

FYI, the show has not been canceled to the best of my knowledge. It has been pulled from the schedule. The difference is financial. I would guess once the network analyzes the public reaction and gets their lawyers opinions the show will be canceled. But giving the fringe group of followers this "group" has, I wouldn't be surprised to see them reappear on another network.

And Josh was not put into "hard labor" either to my understanding, he was helping a friend remodel/build their house and supposedly "counseled" him.

Of course "reality" shows are scripted. That goes without saying. But so many people think this is all "natural" and spontaneous. And it goes without saying they're heavily edited.

To the ones who suggest it should be hidden and not call the cops because it's "family", keep in mind that people who hide that can also be prosecuted. JimBob is lucky that the statute of limitations ran out for his actions, or actually inactions or he could have been sitting in a cell too. I suspect there was a lawyer or two involved here too. When you have friends in law enforcement and money, you can get away with things.

I'd betcha a dollar that good old JimBob knew to the minute when the statute of limitations ran out.

They report to a police officer(personal friend) who is now doing 56 yrs for child pornography ..
They send him for "counseling" with a man(personal friend) remodeling in Little Rock well..that guy has been accused of molestation and failing to report child abuse.
Consider the circle of friends they have.
Oprah knew in 2006 of the allegations.
TLC must have been aware.

What in the heck does JimBob do for a living to be able to afford a house like that, a huge motor van, all of them travel the world, not to mention feed and clothe all of that family?

Google is your friend for questions like that:
http://starcasm.net/archives/277867

When TLC cameras first met the Duggar family for 2004’s 14 Kids and Pregnant Again
special, Arkansas parents Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar were already
doing quite well for themselves. Since then, thanks to an additional
boost from TLC, the Duggars’ net worth has grown to an estimated $3.5
million.

Although we can’t all have lucrative reality TV contracts, most of us can learn a few things from the Duggars’ money philosophy…

After Jim Bob and Michelle married in 1984, he worked for various
stints as an insurance salesman and car salesman. In 1990, after six
years of using credit and gathering some debt, Jim Bob and Michelle
attended a seminar on Jim Sammons’ Finding Financial Freedom program. (The seminar is endorsed by their religious organization.) The Duggars then vowed to get out of debt by not purchasing anything they didn’t have cash to cover at the time.

“I’ve learned self control and also a lot about construction,” Jim Bob said in a 2001 interview for Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

After saving enough to cover general expenses, they made some smart
investments in local real estate and cell phone towers. In 2001, Jim Bob
explained they were financially secure enough that he didn’t have to
work full-time. He instead served in the Arkansas House of
Representatives between 1999 and 2002, before spending his own $250,000
on a failed senate campaign. (The Arkansas House of Reprsentatives job
now pays approximately $15,000; Jim Bob likely earned less during his
terms.)

The Duggars’ money philosophy also requires a lot of patience: Using an $82,000 construction kit, they began building a 7,000-square-foot home
in 2000. They didn’t complete the project in 2006, at which point they
were finally able to move the family of 18 out of their old
2,000-square-foot home.

Since TLC came into the picture, the Duggars have also gotten many of
the usual non-income perks that go along with reality TV gigs: They’ve
traveled around the world, received help when furnishing that large home
and likely got some financial aid when hosting Jill Duggar’s recent mega-wedding. Still, they all appear to be modest spenders who aim to buy cheap and “save the rest.”

Removed my comment. It was superfluous.

You have to realize that by holding church services in the house, a portion of the property is tax exempt. If there is an angle to be played, Jimbo is going to find it.

I've never watched an episode. Only seen small bits and pieces waiting for the next show to start. Once I realized that their belief system included not educating their children past 8th grade and that the children needed to make appointments to schedule one-on-one time with a parent, I knew it wasn't something for me.

I can't think of a single mainstream religion that advocates for no advanced education. That is a form of mind control that is very dangerous. The parents met as college students, so they know the value of higher education.

To me, their values and beliefs are so flawed that this isn't surprising. The girls are valued only for their ability to breed and subjugate themselves to men. They may not need counseling as much as Josh because they were raised to defer to anything and everything a male says or does.

gets better? just read he bought a home and owes the irs about 5 grand?? now how do you get a mortgage?? crazy...(it was a fixer-up from the picture i saw, so more $$)

I always felt like Jana was so quiet. Now maybe we know why. So sad for all involved.

Sad for the girls for they will never get over what was done to them by the boy and by what their parents did to them.

Huckaby , a close family friend, said he ( the perp) was underage when he did this.

"he ( the perp) was underage when he did this."

Well, 17 years, 11 months, and 29 days is "underage," but certainly someone that age should know right from wrong.

Thanks gray wings....it is a good finincial plan for everyone. I live in an area with many Amish and German Baptists who home school their children and no further education past 8th grade, and I will never have anything but admiration for them...no better neighbors! Any disaster, and they are always the first to respond ready to help and stay as long as needed. I had a crew build my house and they were such a pleasure to work with. It would be a better world, in my opinion, if more had their ethics! There might be a "bad apple" in the bunch from time to time, but who are we to throw the first stone? I don't think the rest of us are doing such a great job of keeping peace in this world either.......end of my soap box!

Apparently Amish ethics include running puppy mills, so, no thank you.

Lindsey, the reports that I read said that he was 14 at the time

I read he was 14 when he first touched his sisters as they slept. I do feel he was old enough to know better ( not to touch his sisters privates which I'm sure won't get them pregnant btw) . Like some one said earlier , he was in a situation that didn't seem to allow any sort of outlet for his sexual wondering. He was home schooled and surrounded by little kids. ---I recall a couple of instances of teen boys acting out this way with me when I was a youngster, they didn't get away with much but they certainly crossed the line. Now as a teacher at school I see plenty of little boys acting out. I'm completely bothered when I hear kids are DATING in the third grade. It's nuts what kids think these days! I just feel like asking them ’who drives'? --anyway I can't imaging why the Duggar parents would want to put this out for the public, like some people are expecting. Most families take care of their kids problems within their own home. His parents surely talked to the girls , most likely with their pastor . ---- I wonder if Lena Denham is being put over the fire?

But talking to parents and a pastor might not be enough. Sexual abuse can have very serious emotional consequences, and quite often the victim may not even be aware of the extent. She may think she's fine, but something like that tends to have significant impact throughout her life while manifesting in different ways. I feel it's a serious injustice to provide anything but professional help.

I don't think it's the same as Lena Denham at all. Mostly because she was 7. There's a big difference between a 7 year old touching a sibling's body out of curiosity and a 14 year old sneaking in to fondle someone while she sleeps. My guess is it's pretty normal for young children to do something like that, but teens know better.

Jasdip, he is 27 now, and has said that this happened "about 12 years ago," which would make him about 15. Be that as it may, I wasn't saying that he was over 17. I was responding to Josephene's post where she quoted Mike Huckaby saying Josh was underage when he did this (as if that would make it ok). I was attempting to point out that someone who is 17 years, 11 months, and 29 days old is technically underage, but they should still know better. And someone who is 15, who has shared in the responsibility of raising younger siblings, should have known better.

Oh, "...about 12 years ago." He has the 'be vague' thing down pat.

Does anyone reading know a Pollyanna? I did. She could smile through a funeral. She refused to hear anything that might rock her perfect world.

I've sort of realized that Josh may intentionally be being vague in a lame attempt to "protect the victims." Since we know that several of the five victims are his sisters (I've now read a report that says he admits that four of the five were his sisters), it doesn't take much to figure out who they are. He has a total of nine sisters, five of whom were alive at the time of his "indiscretions."

And, apparently, the Duggar family's religion places blame on the female victims in situations such as this -- for dressing inappropriately, acting inappropriately, etc., and another biggie -- making a male child change diapers of a female child.

'places blame on the female victims in situations such as this --'

yes, & then they *have* to "forgive" him.

but, unlike my understanding of the dynamics of forgiveness (transgressor acknowledges wrongdoing, makes restitution/atones, & *humbly* *asks* for forgiveness), the burden is on the victims.

What bothers men is it was his sisters who he abused. That is just SICK. When he was courting Anna they made him sound so nice. If he resigned from his job in Washington D. C. where is the family today? Have they moved back to Arkansas? I hope that one day they can all get over this tragedy in their lives. I hope this show is never on tv again. That the country doesn't have to live it with them. I will be happy not to see Jim Bob and Michelle again. I was a watcher of their show.