It seems to me that your parents were helping you and I don't detect a lot of gratitude. They don't have to do any of this. They are not obliged to babysit, let alone do sleepovers. And if they just want to spend time with your children and not the others that is their right and I find it understandable. You are not even married to this woman! Maybe your folks don't want to get too attached in case it doesn't work out.

What tfits said. You are not married to your GF and are living together. This is not good for children - you are sexualizing children. Either get married or move out.

Your parents have the right to do what they want, not be on call for you. Naturally they are close to their grandchildren, not your GF;s children, If you weren't living together, her kids wouldn't know about the overnights. This is what happens with divorce and living together without marriage.

You made the decisions that brought you to this place in your life, and it's not your parent's duty to get you out of it.

Wow, how judgmental some people are. Personally I have no issue with whether you are married or not (but would point out that regularising your relationship -ie getting married- resolves a whole lot of potential legal issues), but in the sort of culture in which you are living perhaps this _is_ part of the issue for your parents.

I do agree your parents are being terribly unfair. Little kids don't understand the nuances of relationships, especially since the other grandparents have accepted your children equally.

In your parents' defence, perhaps four small children all at once are more than they can handle at their age. Maybe you should limit visits to your parents to times when you can be there as well to help watch over them all.

As for your grandmother's celebration, why don't _you_ pay for a motel for all of you and all of you go? Why are you limiting your attendance to "Dad has to pay for all of us, not just me and my children"? That is also in your language NOT COOL. Adults pay their own way.

What tfitz1006 said. Regardless of whether you and GF are married, expecting grandparents to provide child care daily for four small children is a bit much; quite frankly I'm sure it's exhausting for them. They are entitled to their retirement - to golf and hang out.

Grandparents are a gift to your children. They do not owe you anything at all.

Do the little boys have a dad and grandparents?

In regards to my dad paying for a motel room...he just offered. it wasn't something contingent on me going. I can afford my own motel or stay with other family members. Its just the point that he would go out of his way to say "ill get a room for you and the girls but she and the boys can't come ". Not cool. So even if I pay for a room for all of us it won't work because she and boys weren't invited and has such a bad taste in her mouth and wouldn't go even if she was

And the boys do have a dad but he's basically 99% out of the picture so I'm basically their everyday dad. Their grandparents (moms parents) take my girls every time they take a boys and have never asked to "just see the boys". Their other grandparents (dads parents) aren't around as much but do make an effort sometimes and have offered several times to take my girls as well but usually I say no because that seems strange to me but I do appreciate the gesture.

And again. I do NOT ask my parents for childcare.

Also a comment was made about blood relative having a special bond. 1/2 of my parents is a stepmother . When her and my dad had kids I definitely saw and still see the difference in treatment and connection there but she has no blood relation to my kids so that argument doesn't work here

And yes its extremely hard dealing with the girlfriends anger and from her viewpoint I totally get it. Shes feeling like her kids aren't wanted or loved and thats gotta be hard. Her kids aren't bad or wild. If anything my

youngest daughter is the hard one.

And for what its worth my parents haven't asked about seeing any of the kids since my first post. And yes its fine if they want to be retired and golf. Just don't make my life harder when you do get an itch to see the kids is all I ask.

It kinda sounds like your dad hasn't gotten over your split (?) with the mother of his grand babies. Which ends up with him being unable / unwilling to form a relationship with the boys. Maybe.

Life is too short for these limitations. And it's too short for simply cutting him out of all your lives. I'm a grandparent of two little ones, and while I hope my presence in their lives feel like a gift to them ---- they are truly a gift to me and I never have enough time with them. I am working to have time with me be as positive as possible.

Sounds like you two haven't been able to work this out together. Also sounds like you want the 4 kids to think of themselves as a family. Sounds like you appreciated it when your dad made time for the kids and had made plans where it would be fun. So, maybe a compromise might be to allow your dad to have a visit from his grand babies (that are yours) every so often. And be certain that GF's boys are also having a special time while they are away. This kind of visits could be disruptive to the normal flow of family life, so perhaps they occur every other month or so. (This solution is just an example, of course). In other words, as you dad insists on only time with your daughters - let him have that (as long as the girls are VERY enthusiastic participants). It just can't be a frequent occurrence.

I think that any interaction you can have between your boys and your parents is great. If you accept their terms it could work. Maybe try some family counseling with GF so she may consider the idea of not taking this personally? When your boys are with your parents, it eases the work at home and can create the opportunity for you personally to get a break since you are very busy taking care of four. Mom can hang with her girls without you and the boys-this is important. Obviously from my other comments you can see that I don't think living together without marriage when there are small children involved is a good idea. Just my opinion obvi. Do you think of marrying her, if you don't mind me asking? Do you think this would make your parents view things differently (not that this is the primary reason for marriage but just wondering)?

Grow up. Until you marry your "GF" how can you expect your parents to invest the same emotional energy into her children as yours? Really! You are projecting your own lack of commitment onto your parents.

Yes I've thought of marrying her and we've talked about it. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now to do that right now. I can see i'm dealing with an older and more traditional crowd here on this site. Here let me break this down so you all can understand. .....I didn't marry my ex and it was the best decision I ever made. Yea we talked about it, we had kids together, lived together for years, heck i even gave her a ring but i never sealed the deal. And you know what happened when we split up? NOTHING! no nasty divorce. I kept my house, my cars, my dogs, I didn't inherit her bad credit or debt. And she would have been one to try to take all those things from me. Now fast forward to the current girl....she was married and is still cleaning up things from her divorce, her credit got trashed and paid thousands for an attorney. Now i don't foresee any ugly things like that happening with us as neither of us have that vindictive side but still. Can you see my point here just a little? Also when filing taxes. We're both better off filing single. These are all logical reasons why we are not married. Will it happen one day? Probably. But if we don't then there shouldn't be any negative judgement.

And if my parents were to sink so low to not invest any emotional energy due to me not being married then they are just making up excuses. What parent would put a contingency to get married in order to take the relationship serious? I'm amazed how big the gap is on the thinking from this site. I expected some logical responses but instead am getting beat up just because i'm not married.

Quite frankly I don't give a toss whether you are married or not, but tfitz1006 especially had a good point in asking if you thought your not being married was a factor in your _parents'_ thinking. Maybe you think they are "just making up excuses" but perhaps they _are_ leery of forming a bond with children who may not be around for the long haul. Who knows?
And in some states not being married has little or no effect on the requirement for the fair division of community property when splitting up.

What a shame your daughters now miss out on sleepovers with their grandparents, who are what? 80 yearls old?

My God man, let your girls do what they did before you brought a GF and her kids into their lives. Their window of opportunity to make life-long memories with them is closing.

Figure it out!

This "but it's not fair!!!!" is not your girls' problem.

Let them have their grandparents. You owe that to them, not your GF's kids, whom I'm sure are lovely.

Putting the marriage issue aside for a minute. Your asking a lot of older people to take care of 4 little kids. It's exhausting as I'm sure you know. Add 20 years to your own age and see if you could do it. They're retired. They want to enjoy their life and be with "their" grandchildren. The people that come in and out of your life shouldn't change that fact. Your trying to force your parents to babysit your girlfriends kids just so they can see yours. Is that fair to them? Maybe you should have an honest conversation with your dad and see how they really feel about the situation. Maybe they feel like you and your girlfriend are using them for a babysitter. I'm sure they have some resentments of their own with the way things are being handled on your end.

Life is short, even if you don't like the fact that they haven't taken your girlfriends kids in with open arms shouldn't change the fact that they are your parents. Girlfriends come and go, parents are there for you forever.

Don't do or say things you'll regret later. My brother had a fight with my dad that he was too stubborn to resolve. Then my dad just had a heart attack and died. Out of the blue. Wasn't sick or anything. He regrets that fight now for the rest of his life. Let your kids go back to their regular routine sleepovers and take hers out to Chucky Cheese while they're gone. Tell her kids it's their special time with you.

Let your kids go back to their regular routine sleepovers and take hers out to Chucky Cheese while they're gone. Tell her kids it's their special time with you.

*****

Bingo, make it special for everyone. It will not be the same, but it will be great memories and special times for all the kids.

You are projecting your own lack of commitment (marriage) onto your parents.

If you and GF where cool and as 21st century evolved as you claim, you would have ALL the answers and you wouldn't be on a website asking for input. So better do a little more soul searching before going on the attack about old people.

But I have a lot of trouble seeing kids being treated separately. Maybe you can sweet talk your parents into taking all of them but for real short visits so you don't wear them out. If you are less defensive and show more gratefulness, they might do more. But they don't owe that. Kind words and attitude move mountains, and from where I read, you are sounding pretty pissy right now. I would avoid you, lol.

If GF parents are more energetic let them have 4 kids for extended periods. As long as the kids feel wanted and cherished, they won't care who they're with. We have never gone to wars b/c there was too much love going around so take it from whoever gives it in whatever amount they have to give.

PS:. I bet my house I am younger than you.

Did you consider what I said about going back to the old arrangement-your parents occasionally have your girls for an overnight-and then you take a break. Your gf has alone time with her boys. Everyone is happy. If I were your mom, I would just take the girls for overnights but I would have all of you over for dinner every few weeks. Because, I am sorry, I do not view a living together arrangement the same as a marriage. I would not want to get overly attached to those boys. Let their "real" grandparents spend overnights with them, but I wouldn't add two little girls to that mix, it's just too many kids to care for at one time when you are older.

My parents are 55 and 50, not exactly senior citizens, I'm 34. I guarantee marriage is not an issue with them. And for the last time I HAVE NOT AND DO NOT USE THEM AS BABYSITTERS. They haven't ever babysat the kids nor have they ever been asked. If we go on a date then we pay a teenager to watch them. I'm not pissy towards my parents either. I said my peace and left it at that. I'm not attacking old people either. If anything I'm the one that's been attacked simply because I'm not married. I googled my scenario and came up with this site and posted looking for opinions. It was fine until the "get married" attacks and assumptions were made. If I could delete this thread I would. And no, i will not be going back to my old arrangements. That still leaves me with 2 kids thinking "this isnt fair" and a girlfriend that's not happy. They were taking them for short visits. That wasn't the issue. The issue was that they tried to be sneaky about it and have the girls longer and then threw in the "you and the girls can come but not them" thing. That doesnt exactly sit well with my girflriend. Maybe I should call her my fiance. Would that calm everyone down on here? If my parents want to see the kids they just need to ask. Which they did a few days ago and took the kids to ice cream and dinner for 2 of their birthdays.

"2 kids thinking 'this isn't fair' (wonder where they got that idea) and a girlfriend that's not happy". The problem is your girlfriend, who is astonishingly entitled. She should be the one encouraging your children to spend time with their grandparents, and enabling it by seeing that her children feel just as lucky and loved to be getting some attention of their own. I understand you and she are trying to forge a new family - but that is your project, not your parents. And stop holding her parents up as the model for your parents to follow. They are irrelevant. I am speaking from experience. My brother's and his girlfriend forced this on our family (grandparents and siblings) and it wore us all out. The bonds were forced and didn't last. In the interest of "equality" all of the relationships were diluted. Every relationship in a family is unique. An uncle and nephew may discover a special bond in a hobby no one else shares. That's something to encourage - not force that uncle to include the entourage. The real gift to all of these children is to enable them to develop INDIVIDUAL relationships wither their relatives, and a chance to break out of their pack.

Hi,
Adam: Hey, it comes through that you are struggling with what's going on with your parents (dad and stepmom, I think). It is hard to do sometimes, but it's OK to scroll on past unhelpful posts - AND not all shared here has been about your marriage status.
Also, I am honestly confused about the topic of babysitting ---- maybe for some here having kids picked up at school by 'non parental units' equates to baby sitting while for you and others (and you) it equates to visits. I think that distinction doesn't have to be important. And agree with you that these two issues are clouding things and keeping the people from reading carefully (I do see posts that refer to your two as boys, etc.) I am just one voice.

Your work to build / keep the 6 of you a strong family is important - so very important. You are right on that. And not unusual - friends have a daughter whose significant other has two kids from a previous relationship and the couple now have two of their own. These friends (the grandparents) do treat all the kids as family and have fun together and help out as much as possible. I thinkit odd for a grandparent to exclude siblings of their grandkids. A lot of grandparents do work at the relationship. Others don't. I never had a relationship with my grandparents - spent a lot of time at their house, but it was all during big events. Us kids were enjoyed, but at a long arm's length. Don't ever recall a gift from them. No trips to bowling alleys, out for ice cream, and so forth. I do think I did help with picking blueberries from their hybrids (big bushes).

I find it odd that your father did that awkward thing about sharing a motel. (It would have made so much more sense for him to make that a 'boys get together'.) I find it odd that your dad wants time only with your daughters. But I suggest including your parents in family events - formal and informal - and often. But on your terms -- and you should be with them during visits now so there's total confidence on your GF's part that her boys are being well treated.
I hope I've helped -- just ask if I seem to have muddled things a bit. Being a grandparent is a gift to me. My kids may owe me, but they don't owe me grandkids. My grandkids - it's all about them.

I don't think the boys are "siblings" in the same way children of you and your partner (should you have any kids together) would be. However, you are a family and all the kids are a part of that.

Trying to help you see how this might feel for your parents; maybe imagine that your ex has more kids, who would be half siblings to your kids. How would you feel if she expected YOU to take her new kids on visits when you take your kids? After all, they are "family" to your kids and feel left out when your kids go have a fun time with Daddy. Their daddy. Not the daddy of her other kids. Grandparents are the same, not their grandparents. Divorces/splits provide big challenges for all, mostly for the kids, but they adapt to the realities.

I do think your dad was insensitive about not including your partner and her kids on the trip, since they are now your family. But I don't agree that they owe the same amount of attention to her kids as their own grand kids. I do hope they pay attention to them and gift them appropriately, but taking all four kids when they want time with their grands is not reasonable. I think your gf/partner is way out of line expecting that, but I can appreciate your position trying to keep the peace. Her kids have their own grandparents and if they don't compare favorably to your parents (although it sounds like they do), the kids really just have to learn to accept that those are the relatives that they were dealt. Not fair, but life isn't.