Where are you flexible? Can the window be moved or, even better, enlarged?

I'm asking b/c your DW really should be on the other side of the sink. Ideally, it would be nice to have both your dish storage and your DW on the right side. SO, if you could move the window to the left about 2 or 3 feet you would have a much better layout.

OR

If you cannot change the window, can you move the door on the "bottom" of the layout? Where does it lead? (A full-floor layout would be really helpful.) If you can, then you can extend the counter toward the bottom wall and have plenty of room for the DW and dish storage to the right of the sink.

Issues:

• The DW is in the middle of the Prep Zone. Your primary Prep Zone will be b/w the range and sink, regardless of where you plan it, b/c that's the only place where there is water and water is key for prepping and a Prep Zone. You will be tripping over an o

• You do not have a wide enough aisle b/w the island and the cabinets & counter in the lower left corner. With seating, a working aisle, and what appears to be a path through the kitchen, you need at least 60", 66" would be better.

• You show a 13" deep counter for the MW - that's not deep enough. Most MWs need at least 18" of depth to accommodate: MW depth + required air circulation space. If you look at people who have their MWs mounted under an upper cabinet - note that they stick out several inches beyond that upper cabinet - and standard upper cabinets are 12" + 1" for the door = 13".

• Do you really want a desk in your kitchen? Most people get rid of a desk when they remodel b/c they're really just junk/clutter magnets. A better idea is to have a Message/Command Center located near the family entrance. The Center could have space for keys, purse, charging station for phones, answering machine & phone (if you have a landline), the family calendar, mail, school papers, etc. This drastically cuts down the clutter elsewhere.

• Your island is confusing - what are the boxes and other "things" in it? I will say that you need an island at least 41.5" deep (assuming counter-height seating) and at least 6 feet wide to accommodate the four seats you show. It looks like it's big enough in both directions, but I wanted to mention it in case I'm wrong.

• You have very little space b/w the refrigerator and range. While it's doable, it's something that people "make do" with b/c they have no options. You, however, do have options. I recommend more space there for landing space outside the Prep Zone.

If you would like your island to be the primary Prep Zone, then it will need water - your island is just wide enough for an 18" sink base.

Where do the doorways lead from the kitchen lead?

I'm at work right now, so I cannot work on a better layout, but I will later. If you could answer my questions meanwhile, it will help me when I get to it! Also, I recommend reading the Layout Help FAQ and answering the questions from that FAQ.

How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

Thank you so much for your detailed response! This room is an addition off the back of the house, so there is nothing outside of it on 3 sides. The door to the left leads to the dining room (we thought about enlarging the doorway). Good points about the windows and doors, but they already exist, and enlarging them would be hard. Moving the door would also be hard. Our siding is very old asbestos siding which cracks easily, and is hard to work with. We will enlarge the windows a tad, but any more than that will be beyond my husband's abilities.

The island consists of 2-30" base cabinets. I'm not sure why there's other boxes drawn in there...To save money and for the look we wanted to go with an Ikea butcherblock counter that is 42x74. We can make the island any size that we want, but we are a family of 3, and hoping for more in the future, so we chose 4 seats. My husband says that we shouldn't plan a seat for me since I'll be cooking while others eat....hahaha...but it's true :(

We do not really want a desk in the kitchen - that was just an idea that I threw out there and she drew up. We asked her to help us think of something else for that corner. I was thinking that the microwave would go in the corner where it's deeper, and the 13" counter space could house other appliances. I like the idea of a beverage center, so I'm googling pictures of that today.

My biggest concern atm is where do I put the darn microwave?? I find them inconvenient in the island, and too poor at exhausting fumes above the stove. Anywhere else it just doesn't seem to fit...

ETA - I just realized that the door on the left is drawn with our new measurements, not the current width, so she already enlarged it for the drawing.

I asked my husband for a prep sink, but he says that's just another plumbing line that will have to be fixed, so he doesn't want to install one. I think I'll be OK with that. I've gone this long working in a 9x10 kitchen, so having the island would be amazing in itself. My prep area now is about 3'x4', so the island might be used mostly for eating/homework/crafts/whatever else kids do that's messy that I don't know yet

Does your husband cook or use the kitchen much? I'm asking b/c often husbands will veto items b/c they don't see a need b/c they don't work in the kitchen (other than, maybe doing dishes). Once it's explained to them the functional advantages (using technical terms b/c men respond better to technical terms than feelings or how something looks), they often understand and realize the advantages outweigh the disadvantages and realize that it makes your life easier.

I'm curious why he's worried about the plumbing line being fixed - do you have a lot of issues with plumbing? The most plumbing we had to "fix" in our kitchen in the first 13 years was replace the faucet - we had no problems with the water or drain lines - and we're on a well with moderately hard water. It's now been another 7 years, and still no problems...(we remodeled 7 years ago).

I'm not saying the prep sink is a make or break item for functionality - although it comes closer to being one if you cannot move the window or the door and if you insist on putting the sink under the window.

If you work a lot in the kitchen and plan to teach your children to cook (and clean up!), you are going to have issues with that DW in the way.

Be aware that the more constraints you put on a space, the less that can be done to make it the best it can be functionally. If you're spending $$$ on a remodel, you want to do it right so you don't regret it later.

The window and exterior door constraints are understandable, but is it really crucial the sink be in front of the window -or- is it really a big deal to have another plumbing line?

Do you have a pantry elsewhere?

Is that a cabinet-depth refrigerator? Do you have a second refrigerator elsewhere? With 2 or more children, I'm not sure a cabinet-depth will be big enough for your family - especially when they hit the pre-teen and teen years!

I'm working on your layout, but right now, the best place would be b/w the range and refrigerator, but you don't have enough room. You don't want the MW too far from the refrigerator or water since MW'd food usually comes from the refrigerator or freezer and you usually need to add water.

When you say the MW is inconvenient in the island, are you thinking of a conventional MW installed in an alcove under the counter? If so, I agree with you! What about a MW drawer? They are more expensive, but from what I've experienced, they're better made than conventional MWs. Ours is 7 years old and going strong - our previous MWs (conventional) lasted, maybe, 5 years - one only lasted 3 years - and I don't buy the cheap MWs. The cost of the drawer may be less in the long run.

Regarding over the range MWs (OTR MWs) - you're correct there as well, they're lousy range hoods, loud, not the safest (especially if you have children).

Okay...you're the line cook and he's the DIY guy. That would suggest that you're the manager/designer of the space and he's going to build it. To YOUR specifications......right? :)

Buehl is right....with this layout you really should have a prep sink. Otherwise, you have to go past range to get from fridge to sink. Tell DH he needs to listen to you (the expert) and install the sink.

As for the microwave, if you don't like the island, what about on shelf next to window or combined with pantry on far wall? Then (if room) narrow storage/display for dishes on rest of that wall.

I made the island longer, so took out the desk and gave you more space for the prep sink.

Hope this helps...and ask husband if he wants you to make car decisions (or whatever else he knows more about) from now on....LOL Seriously, this is your kitchen and if you're going to gut it and start from scratch, make sure it's the space YOU want.

Thank you both for your awesome posts! I just got home from work and it's late, so I will post more tomorrow, but buehl I just wanted to answer your questions really quick. The exterior door I expect will be used very much. This is the most convenient door to the back yard, which is also why I want the sink under the window. I expect my kids will be spending a lot of time outdoors, and although I have a dishwasher, I do spend a lot of time at my sink. Also, we have some awesome birds and animals that I like to look at while I'm at the sink. The dining room door is located on what used to be the exterior wall, so it's very structural and not really movable. My husband says we can "probably widen it" depending on what we find when we tear off the walls. Right now we're just hoping that we can widen it.

Also, we do have a second fridge in the basement (kegerator :)), and a chest freezer. The refrigerator that we had in mind is a standard refrigerator. She even told me that it would stick out more than the drawing. Not really sure why that's not drawn in there then...

I like Buehl's idea. Here's a couple tweaks.

If you don't care whether you can walk around the island, you could make it into a peninsula instead. I like this one because it would keep the kitchen from becoming a traffic zone and gives you more prep space. And it gives more room for those sitting across to spread out the stools and have more elbow room. Which, with kids, can be a lifesaver. :) You could just turn your head to look out the window to check on the kids.

Funky-Way to think outside the box! :)

A couple of notes about the cleanup sink being in an island or peninsula...with only a 15" overhang, I would not recommend putting a seat behind the sink b/c of splashing b/c it's a cleanup sink which means it's probably (1) deeper front-to-back than a prep sink and (2) there is usually a lot more splashing when cleaning up than prepping. If it were just a prep sink, the 15" would be fine. However, since it's both a prep and cleanup sink, I would like to see an 18" overhang behind the sink if seats are planned for that part of the island.

Now that we know this is going to be an oft-used door, we need to be sure there's enough aisle width to accommodate traffic + seating. Ideally, I would like to see 54" to 60". In addition, I suspect that island or peninsula will become a drop zone of sorts as people come in from the backyard - so I would plan for an area specifically designed with that in mind. Otherwise, you will have to deal with wherever your family decides they want the drop zone - and it might not be where you would like it!

You might consider putting some sort of cabinets behind the sink (instead of seats) that might work as a drop zone.

Finally, think about this - when a cleanup zone is in the island, it means dirty dishes will be stacking up on it. While your island is not open to the rest of the house and it won't put the dirty dishes "front & center" for all to see from the rest of the house, it will limit the usefulness of the island for other uses - like homework, crafts/projects, and even eating.

Good points, Buehl. This doesn't resolve a narrow traffic corridor but it addresses one of your concerns.

With the DW on the end, the door can be left open while prepping and cooking. This would allow dishes to be placed there directly instead of piling on the counter. So just a change of habit might resolve one of your other concerns.

@elauriel - With the dining room right there, do you anticipate eating meals in the kitchen or in the dining room? Might the kitchen seating be more for projects, visiting or just a quick snack?

Love all of these wonderful layouts! I really like
funkycamper's layout with the sink in the island, but was glad that
buehl made that comment about dirty dishes stacking up. We recycle
almost everything and compost (our garbage can is
a tiny office garbage can), so I am constantly washing containers and
leaving them next to the sink to dry until the go into the recycling
bin. We also always have a small compost bin (or 2) next to the sink. On
top of that, 40% of our dishes are hand-wash
only, so I am always leaving dishes to dry on the side of the sink.
This would take up space on the island that I'm not willing to give up. I
work in this kitchen every day, but I just don't think of these things
until someone else brings it up!

I also like funkycamper's idea of the island that just hits the wall. We are meeting with SIL tomorrow
and will bring up this idea. In this scenario I would be more open to
putting the MW on the counter in the corner because I don’t think
I would work over there as much. This would allow me to get the pantry
back to 18”.

Buehl – my husband is never in the kitchen, besides
to do the dishes. I fully understand your comments about the dishwasher
being in the way. In our current kitchen it is almost impossible for
him to put the dishes away while I prep because
the kitchen is so small. In our new kitchen I now foresee it being a
problem again because I would be standing where the dishwasher would
open. I think we will have to move it to the right of the sink.

Knock on wood, we have not had to fix any of the
plumbing that he has installed either. I think that was just his reason
to veto it. That being said, we have discussed prep sinks a bit, and I
guess I don’t fully understand how awesome they
are, either. I know people that have them love them, but I can’t say
that I’ve ever wished that I had a second sink before! I will do some GW
searches and see what others have to say about that. Because I don’t
really see their benefit they seem to be something
that makes for great magazine pictures but something I probably
wouldn’t use. (Really I’d probably use it, but always feel guilty about
the extra cost…)

The sink under the window has gotten a lot of talk –
not just on here, but my SIL and mother have both tried to persuade me
to explore other avenues. Obviously I would like to see my kids in the
back yard. I also like watching the birds
that come to our feeders. I guess I just naturally thought that after
the stove, the place that I spend the most time at is the sink. Prep
work would probably be next to the stove or the island, so unless I put a
sink under the window I didn’t think I would
really spend much time in front of it. This is another view that my SIL
provided for us, but we passed on it after we found that we could run
the plumbing as far out as we wanted (stack and drain issues were
researched and resolved).

As far as the pantry – this is our only one. Going
from 18” to 9” is rather scary to me. I have quite a store of canned and
dry foods in our basement as it is, and I don’t even know where I will
put them in the new kitchen already. Cutting
that space in half might not work for us. BUT – I love putting the
microwave b/w the fridge and the range! Do you think it would look weird
to have nothing on the right side of the range hood? Usually in
pictures the cabinets are mirrored on both sides, so
I just don’t want it to look lopsided. I prefer conventional MWs. Ours
is a hand-me-down from my siblings that’s probably 10+ years old. My
parent’s MW is 25+ years old. I think a drawer MW might be out of our
budget.

I do like lavender_lass’s idea of an additional
pantry in the corner with the MW inside it. We figured that would be
where we would put it ultimately, but it seems so far out of the way.
It’s so annoying to be planning this amazing kitchen
and having a dumb MW throw a wrench in the works at every turn!

Increasing the doorway to the DR to 6’ would be
amazing, but engineers in the family tell me it may not work given the
importance of the integrity of that wall. We will open it as much as we
can.
Buehl – I agree with you on the drop zone when
people walk in the door. We had discussed building a small bench to
match the cabs, but the price came in at about $800, so I just said I
would order one on overstock later. We will absolutely
need a place for shoes/coats.

Ooo - funkycamper I like that new picture! One of my concerns about a sink not against a wall is a splash zone, so putting that raised wall behind it will control that!

I would say we would eat breakfast and lunch in the new kitchen, and dinner in the dining room. We don't have an eat in kitchen now, so my toddler eats in the dining room while I cook and clean in the kitchen and watch him. Not ideal at all!

Talked to my husband this morning and he said that moving the door and windows would be annoying, and a bit more money, but if it really, really helps with the kitchen layout it would be doable. It would certainly be annoying to move the window on the right just a bit, but maybe putting in an additional window on that side would be a better option to make the back yard more visible from the whole kitchen. I would lose storage space, though. Not sure how I feel about that.

Would a plan of the rest of the house be helpful? I can ask my husband to convert his Auto-CAD drawings to something that I can post. Because the new kitchen is in an addition I didn't think it would matter much at this point.

If you can move the door, I think the layout will be much better. I moved the island just a bit closer to sink and range, to make room for the bench with hooks. Pantries are now on that other wall, with microwave between fridge and range....where I believe you wanted it :)

Same plan with prep sink...in case you decide you want one.

Yes, a plan of the whole house would help. Glad to hear that windows and doors could be moved to make your kitchen more functional. A whole house plan will help us all see possible new locations for those doors/windows. And glad to hear the fear of new plumbing is resolved.

Regarding a prep sink: I have a small kitchen (13.5x9) and I'm putting in a prep sink. I dream of the moment it's in because I can see how much it will improve work flow and will resolve the main area of congestion. It's amazing how often both DH and I want to use the sink at the same time. Also, since you hand-wash so much stuff, this means that you always have a sink empty and the adjacent counter-top available for prepping without having to move dirty dishes out of the way. As you have more kids and they get older, you will want to teach them to help in the kitchen. They can help wash while you cook.. And as they get more proficient, they may be wanting to help make a dish while you're making another one. So you could each have your own prep sink with two sinks. I can think of numerous scenarios where having two sinks makes sense. I really can't think of any where staying with only one sink makes sense unless you get something like the Stages 45 which is huge so two people can work in it at the same time. If your budget allows for it, that might end up being a good option for you depending on your layouts.

In either my peninsula or island idea, if you move the DW to the other side, it will conflict with the range. Someone wouldn't be able to load/unload the DW while someone else is cooking at the range.

After you post a whole house plan, hopefully we'll come up with ideas that will work better for you.

I actually quite like the plan your SIL did that you passed on. Even though your sink doesn't look out the window....and I do understand a desire to watch the birds and see nature while working...it does allow you to look into the rest of your home so you can watch the kids while they're playing inside easier. Although I'm unsure if you really have space for that big of a table in the middle of the kitchen. I think your aisles would be way too narrow for that.

it's generally recommended to have these minimum aisle widths:

• 42" for a non-traffic aisle
• 48-54" for an aisle where traffic is expected (like two people working and crossing back-and-forth in each other's work zones)
• 60" for an aisle with sitting to allow people to walk behind someone seated

You could get by with less but it wouldn't be comfortable and for most people, would be irritating.

Just a though as you've mentioned budget a few times. Can you do your remodel in several different phases? Since it sounds like a lot of it, if not all of it, will be DIY, this could be a feasible way to get things the way you want it without spending more now than you feel comfortable. Even if you use some contractors, it's do-able. For example:

• If your current cabinets aren't falling apart, re-position them in the new locations as much as possible. If they're in good condition, you might keep the cabinet boxes in their new locations and just put on new door fronts. Or if you like the looks of them, see if you can still buy them and just buy what you need new and re-use the rest.
• If you decide to go with the island or peninsula and don't have enough cabinets to create it, temporarily use an old table. Put blocks on the bottom of the legs to raise it to counter height.
• If you don't have enough cabinets to create a wall of cabinets, pick up a used chest of drawers or buffet to temporarily put there.
• Keep old appliances and wait until they break-down or the budget frees up to replace them.
• Many Habitat Re-Stores sell used cabinets as well as occasional other stores. Seek them out and visit them once in awhile. We purchased several quality used cabinets this way for only $75 each (4 drawer stacks with quality glides). Even if you just buy them to install temporarily until budget allows buying all new in the style you want, it can temporarily stretch a dollar. And you can always purchase new fronts to match your other cabinets if the used you buy have quality boxes and hardware.
• If you can't readily afford the counters you want, temporarily use plywood counters. They're cheap and work just fine. This is the second kitchen I've done that in.

Sorry to ramble on so long. Just hoping to give you more information, some of which might be helpful.

Lavender, I really like your layout but I think the aisles are too narrow for comfort. Of course, that's not my decision to make but I just thought I'd point out that potential problem.

They were 41" and now they're about 36" but if the bench is not needed, the island could stay 'as is' and maybe have coats and shoes somewhere else. My concern is being able to walk behind stools, so people don't wander through cooking area.

Alright, here is a plan of our first floor. The room where the new kitchen is planned is labeled Family Room on this plan. Thanks!

What will the old kitchen become?

Oh, I love when people post their entire floor plan! Can you add dimensions? Please? This is great.

36" is much too narrow, you need at least 48" b/c it's going to be a busy aisle - 54" would be much, much better.

A TV room/den possibly? If we can fit our sectional couch and TV in the living room or sun porch then maybe the old kitchen will be a play room? Totally undecided!

Funkycamper - I will discuss a prep sink with SIL tomorrow. I think we're leaning towards no, just because I think what I will be using the island for would be hindered by a sink right there. We will see what she thinks!

As far as our budget is concerned - I'm rather frugal, so I'd rather get what would make a great kitchen, and not splurge on things that are more like show pieces. We're also pretty no-frills people. I like the look of quartz so we're going to splurge on that, but as far as a MW or a fridge is concerned, I'll take a run-of-the-mill product. I'll spend more on a DW because they are worth it to me, as is the stove. I guess we're not looking to do the room in stages. I'm hoping to have more kids sooner rather than later, so that was kind of the push to get the kitchen done this year before life gets even crazier!

Dimensions will come tomorrow - my husband didn't think anyone would be too interested! For background - our house is a 1920's working-class foursquare (without any of the fancy stuff - that's a few blocks over) in Buffalo. We're trying to make the kitchen almost look 1920s, but with modern touches. We did the same with our bathroom. Put a clawfoot tub in with subway tile and hex floor, but then quartz counters.

Prep sinks are not always "show pieces". Often, they make or break a design. They also are not kitchen size-dependent. It's all about function and what will make your kitchen work the best it can.

You have one child and are planning more. I assume you will be teaching your children to cook and cleanup. That means you are going to need a kitchen that works for more than one person working in the kitchen at the same time.

Do you need a prep sink? It depends on what design you end up with - including locations of appliances and fixtures and aisle widths.

Seating in the kitchen takes up a lot of space, so you are reducing what is available by having seating. It's a compromise that most people are willing to make. So, design the kitchen so it works with that compromise. Be open-minded - and not "penny wise and pound foolish".

Wait - are you in Buffalo, NY? I'm originally from Western NY! Many of my family members still live in the area!

Of course you have family here! Everyone knows someone from Buffalo!! We live in the city itself.

Is there any way the back door can be moved here? Putting it there would open up tons of great possibilities for your kitchen since it wouldn't also be a traffic path.

Old Kitchen space - Mudroom? If that's the family entrance "above" the old kitchen, then it would make a great Mudroom - with a Message/Command Center!

No, the family entrance is through the foyer. We are considering remodeling the old kitchen to be a bathroom and a closet or a TV room. Funny thing, so...the people that used to live here took our living room that used to look like this: (note: this is not my living room, but it could be!)

And enclosed the cabinet and window on the right and turned it into a bathroom!! So now every time people walk into our house, the see our bathroom. It's also extra fun to have a bathroom right next to your dining room. Guests really enjoy that aspect. This will be something that I post to the bathrooms page eventually. After the kitchen is done, of course, but it's a bonus that it will have plumbing already going to the room if we go the bathroom route!

We met with my sister-in-law yesterday, and this is the new plan that we came up with:

It looks pretty good to me. No glaring problems. (ETA: At least no glaring problems that I can see, that doesn't mean others won't find them, lol.)

What are the aisle widths? I can't tell in the drawing but is there something to the left of the fridge? You will need some space there to allow the doors to swing all the way open. You will want to ensure you have the hinges on the left of the fridge or the door swing will be the wrong way.

You didn't respond to my question (with drawing) several posts up about moving the back door. Is that at all feasible? Even though this design looks fine, I think moving that door would allow you to come up with something even better and with more storage and better flow.

Oh, sorry about that. We decided to move the door, but if we move it to where you suggested then I wouldn't be able to put cabinets there. If we move it to the location that I just posted above then the cabinets can run into the wall rather than stop 3 feet out.

To the left of the fridge is trim so the fridge can open without a problem.

I don't recall the aisle widths. She is working on the quote and the measurement picture. She just drew this up while we were sitting there.

At least 9" of trim? That's what you're going to need to the left of the refrigerator. You'd need 12" if it weren't for the doorway.

If you could move the doorway so the wall next to the refrigerator is no deeper than the refrigerator box, then you wouldn't need any trim.

If you do have 9" or so of trim, then I would put in a narrow pullout pantry - something like this: Rev-A-Shelf Pullout Wood Tall/Pantry Accessories

There are also tall filler pullouts: Rev-A-Shelf Filler Pullout Organizer with Stainless Panel (Left Handed) Tall/Pantry Accessories

Note: You can get them less expensively elsewhere. Other manufacturers may also sell them (Häfele, maybe)

Just so you know, it's going to be a hike b/w the refrigerator and sink on the far wall and you'll be doing a bit of zone-crossing. But since you're dead-set against a prep sink in the island, it's probably the best you can do. A prep sink would really make a difference here!

I realize you wouldn't be able to put cabinets where I suggest a door. However, I believe you will be able to create a better, more functional layout without that door at the end requiring a traffic corridor.

Sorry for the lack of response this weekend. Memorial Day parties and events and what-not got in the way. I hope everyone is enjoying a day off!

Funkycamper, we are currently discussing moving the door to where you suggest. I think we are set on the layout of most of the cabinets, but I do agree with you that if you move the door there then there won't be any foot traffic through the kitchen. How does this design look?

Portfolio · More Info

SIL's other idea was to put the fridge in the lower right corner, but I
didn't want all that traffic through the whole kitchen to get to the
fridge. I also thought that would be harder for me when cooking.

I like your inspiration photo. In fact, I think you can glean some good ideas from it with your layout.

Gosh, that angled upper-view is hard to work from, isn't it?

The red cabinet is the new pantry. You will want to check your aisle spacing there. You may need to go with shallower cabinets to keep your aisles wide enough. Actually, that is a good thing as pantry shelves should be shallower to allow for better access and less risk of losing food that gets hidden behind other items. While that cabinet may need to be shallower than when it was on the other wall, it can be longer so I think, in the end, you have just as much storage that is also more accessible storage.

I definitely like the lack of traffic through the kitchen so much better with the door moved here.

I was trying to decide if it would be better to have a counter in the red cabinet area or just floor to ceiling cabinets. Your inspiration picture gives a good mix of both. I think I'd be inclined to make that area into a beverage/snack center. Maybe move the microwave there, built in over the middle counter area, the toaster, and the coffee maker. It would also be a good space for a fruit bowl and such. This way if you're making dinner....and let's pretend it's a dinner that is going to cook for a few hours, maybe even something you're starting around lunch time, the rest of the family can come in and make a snack to tide them over without impeding on the cooking space. DH can make the morning coffee while you're making breakfast. Whatever. It would create a nice separation of space for different tasks.

Think about what all you would store in the "red" cabinets. You may not want so many glass uppers if it will be food pantry storage. If you anticipate any nice glassware or serving pieces being stored there, the glass would be nice. If mainly pantry items, I think the open shelves would keep it open enough looking without needing the glass, too. Again, it depends on what you're storing there.

I think you should keep the fridge where it is for easier access for snacks but also for grabbing that extra condiment or anything else forgotten....this is more important if you're sitting at the dining room table but I think it just fits better there.. And I'm not really one who likes looking at refrigerators that much. I think they tend to be big hulks in the kitchen. If you move it to the lower-right corner, you will see it from the dining room. Is that what you want to look at? Or would you rather look at your beautiful cupboards?

All that said, moving it to lower-right would better fit the ice-water-stone-fire layout which is a great work flow. We move from fridge to sink/prep counter to cooking. If you recall, this is why we have been pushing you to consider a prep sink.

So...hmmmmm...I'm just musing out loud here. If it were my kitchen, and because I have such a dislike for hulking fridges, I would really have to think about the extra steps from fridge to sink in this layout and weigh that against my fridge dislike to make a decision. You will be walking extra steps in this layout. I walk extra steps in my own kitchen just so I could put my fridge in a less-noticeable niche and I'm quite happy with that decision. It's only about 1.5-2 steps farther than the previous fridge placement but it has allowed me to have a baking center and made the view through my over-sink window better and easier seen from the rest of the house without the fridge sticking out and blocking it. So carefully consider whether those extra steps will be a bother for you.

In the end, most of us have to make a compromise or two to get what we want. And, in the end, since we're all different, only you can make that final decision. It's really best to have as many options as possible to consider before pulling the trigger. If SIL is willing, I think you should have her draw up a plan with the door moved to the lower-left and the fridge in lower-right and share it here so we can all give you feedback on that plan. Or maybe someone else will pop in here and create one. I'm better at seeing problems than I am coming up with solutions so I'm not seeing a good way to do that and keep your sink under the window that you so desire which also keeps the DW out of the prep zone. And, to me, those issues are more important than a few extra steps to the fridge.

Oh, gosh, sorry to ramble on so long. I probably wasn't much help, was I?

No, that was very helpful! She did draw up a view with the fridge in the corner, but with the door still halfway along the wall. Pretty much I felt the same as you: I don't want to see the fridge from the dining room, I don't want the fridge that far from the rest of the house, and I don't want people to be cutting across the room to get to it. In the picture the outside door is right next to the fridge, which could obviously change, but even if the door was moved to the lower left corner, I don't see fitting pantry cabinets in there.

The pantry will hold food. Probably the whole pantry will be food. I am a big stock-piler of cans and dried goods, and I need a lot of room to store it. As much as I love the china cabinet look of the inspiration picture, I do have 2 china cabinets, so I won't be doing glass doors at all in the pantry. These doors will be glass:

I had your exact idea of fancy pantry doors a while back, and SIL drew up some pantry cabs that had a little more of a china cabinet look:

These looked great, but clocked in at $950 a piece for each of the 3. I know that for kitchen cabinets that isn't a lot of money, but there's only so much that I'm willing to spend on a kitchen. I know that someone mentioned my budget before, but I think doing the kitchen piece by piece over the years is unrealistic (we have many, many other projects lined up). Also, I hate buying things to replace later "when we get money", so I wouldn't do that.

I love these cabinets as well

Tudor Kitchen · More Info

and had the same idea as you: microwave, beverage center. That's when
the whole 15" counter discussion came up to house the MW, but then everyone said there
wasn't any space, and then I'd have to walk across the room to use the
MW, and all that stuff, so we dropped it and put the MW next to the
stove. I told SIL that I'd love cabinets like this, but then the cost of
the uppers in combination with the lowers (instead of 1 piece), and then the cost of the
quartz on top of it...I feel like we've tried everything for this side
of the wall, and since I'm not willing to add a few more grand to this project, I think
we're going to stick with the single door pantries.

I also wonder if it would look overwhelming to have cabinets wrap almost 3 complete sides of this room? I don't want our kitchen to look too garish for the rest of the house.

Oh, also, the DW went back into the prep zone in the new design with the fridge in the lower right. Because of this and the other reasons that I listed we nixed this idea and are sticking with the other one.

Ouch! $950 each would scare me away, too. I'm much too frugal for that. You do raise a good point that three walls of cabinetry might feel too heavy for the space. How about something like this? Your husband sounds quite handy. Have him build in a shallow closet on that wall. And then put some nice sliding doors or barn doors. You could paint or stain the doors to match the cabinets or to match the walls, whichever look you prefer. He could build the shelves or you could buy one of the many kits available for them. Here's one with barn doors. The layout is roughly similar to what you would have with your island and outside door placement where that archway is. The cost of something like this is a pittance compared to buying cabinets.

Pantry with barn door · More Info

With kids, I think it would be fun to paint the doors with chalkboard paint.

Playroom Wall Mount 2610F · More Info

Barton Hills · More Info

Maybe chalkboard paint on the door that slides behind and create a children's artwork display on the door that slides in front. This particular door is magnetic but you could put a corkboard on the door. Your kids would be thrilled to have their artwork on display like that.

Cool Magnetic Sliding Door. · More Info

Your DH could put plug-ins in the pantry and have a counter-height shelf with clearance to work at. This could still be a beverage center. I would just make sure that everything is on one side of the pantry so you could access all the beverage items with just one door open or it would be frustrating.

And if you use your microwave as little as I do, it could still have a shelf inside for a microwave. My microwave isn't even in my kitchen. It's in my adjacent laundry/pantry room. I use it maybe once or twice a day. Mainly to heat coffee. Once in awhile to melt butter. Even less often for other things like defrosting. I absolutely love not having it in my kitchen. It clears up space. The kitchen looks better, imho. A $60, compact size one suits me just fine. And the few extra steps to get to it to use it are absolutely not a problem because of what I've gained for moving it.

Of course, if you use your microwave more frequently, you might feel different. But I'd really think through how often you use it and what you use it for. It may be just fine in the pantry. Or not. We all do things a little differently.

Even if you decide not to put coffee or microwave in such a pantry, I think it's still a good idea to put in some plug-ins while you're building it. You may later decide you want something in there that needs plugging in and it's a LOT easier to put electrical in while building it than it is to add it later.

Hope this helps!

Have you considered expanding the kitchen in it's current location rather than moving it? I'm wondering if the kitchen stayed in it's current location, would the budget allow a huge window/slider at the back of the house and opening the wall to create counter seating for two?

If you were to stand at your sink and look through a playroom with attached powder room to the the backyard through a 6'+ window or doors would that work too? It's difficult to tell without whole house dimensions, but I don't think you'd be sacrificing anything with this floor plan. I like that the kitchen is open to both the existing dining room as well as the playroom and that there's no traffic through it. And I'd really like a big window there on that back wall. You could have eyes on a kid at the table, on in the playroom and one outside from this sink.

I realize this plan is not on-trend--everyone wants a island! But I'm going to post it anyway just in case it's of any help to you :-)

Benjesbride - unfortunately, the wall between the kitchen and the dining room contains ducts, electrical, and a brick chimney I think? We opened the wall when we bought the house, found the duct (heat for the second floor), then closed it back up. And I have to be honest...in my current kitchen I have only a 2'x3' section of counter on which to prep all my food. That's it. I really, really want an island!!

I do like turning what probably was a side hall back to a side hall, though!