Just to remind people that the (almost certainly) irreversible change to charging a fee would get the Arboretum only between 7 and 8% of their budget. It will of course cost something to administer the fee, so perhaps 5% is a more realistic number? Regardless, the presence or absence of the fee is not going to make an enormous difference in the overall health of the park. And I would argue that they could get more than 7 or 8% if they were just a bit more creative. Eric, you say "People are not donating like they used to. Memberships are way down from a few years ago". I believe you have identified the problem, at least in part. The Arboretum is bad at fundraising. This needs to be fixed. I don't know the people involved, but it's clear they are not reaching out to us "plant people" as well as they should. I also strongly suspect they are failing to tap the immense wealth in San Francisco and its suburbs, which I would expect would be their true source of money. Reaching out to "plant people": I suppose there are many ways one could describe Strybing's incredibly low profile. As I mentioned above, many of the big names in the horticultural world are totally unaware of their sales. But this is perhaps even more telling: I've only been to the Conservatory of Flowers (the glasshouse, also in Golden Gate Park) and the UC Botanical Garden a couple times each in the last couple years. However, I just checked: emails from UC Botanical Garden in the last year: 38. From the Conservatory of flowers: 18. From Strybing: 0. (note that I have received a number of personal emails from employees and volunteers at Strybing in response to questions.) Strybing fails to promote itself and I assume to raise money. That needs to be fixed before they make an irreversible step like charging money. Yes, those of us who post on a forum like this will continue to go to Strybing. Those aren't the people we should be concerned with. People like my mom, as I mentioned, will be less likely to go. Strybing is unlikely to ever raise that much money by selling more plants, by the way. $200,000 would be 20,000 $10 plants, even assuming 100% profit, which divided by 10 or 12 sales is close to 2,000 plants per sale...impossible. However they could clearly raise more money by raising their profile a little bit and appealing to all of the wealth in the area. If they start holding events for the rich and they make this place of beauty a center for those people, a good fundraising effort should be able to raise 10% more money. However, if they do run out of money and can't take care of all their plants, I suspect they can save quite a bit of money by neglecting their most abundant one--the grass--which is all over. Let the grass die and go uncut, yet preserve the important plants. The park will become an "eyesore" in the opinion of many, yet they will preserve what counts. I bet the dead overgrown grass would draw attention and that extra 7 or 8% of the budget would quickly appear. There are many creative ways the Arboretum could raise money. The newspaper article said that $10,000 was spent to pay a lobbyist to push for the $7 fee. If they had instead spent the money on a consultant to look at ways to raise the profile of the Arboretum, appeal to the wealth of the area, and raise money, I suspect the need for the fee would vanish.

Oh, gdogni. I tried to make this short, but it can't be said in a few sound bites. Who was doing the jobs before the illegals came? They were being done. Have we been quick to buy the idea that Americans don't want to do these jobs because we, ourselves, wouldn't want to do them? Americans have done jobs for many years I wouldn't want to have to do. I would do anything I could do, if necessary, but I do have my 'druthers. I wish you could have talked with the young woman I just spent time with the other day. She was almost in tears because she was pretty sure she was going to loose her jobs because the company had just brought in a new group of illegals. She commuted 60 miles - one way - to work on the assembly line of a chicken processing plant. I've been just in the office of a processing plant and my stomach lurched from the smell. It's a job I don't want to have to do - but others have for many years. She said, in a shakey voice, 'I've just got to have this job.' The shocking thing she told me is, if this company lays someone off, not fired for reason, but laid off because of slowdowns, etc., they will only rehire you one time. That means you can be rehired, but if laid off again (because a batch of illegals come in) you are no longer 'qualified' to work for that company. By way of their hiring practices, they are creating 'unqualified' workers in the area. People know to not apply for the job again. So when the news media goes to the spokesman for that company he/she can say things like 'we just can't find qualified workers', or 'we just haven't had any applicants' or the old stand by 'no one wants to do these kinds of jobs'. Neither they nor the media are going to tell you they fixed the situation. When you see jobs being filled by illegals - the only thing that means is they have the job. It means absolutely nothing else. We don't know how many others applied for the job, and didn't get it. One thing you have to realize is that in many areas, people are aware that only illegals will be hired, and they don't even apply. I saw illegals building the houses that got built in the frenzy of the last few years. Can we assume that Americans no longer wanted to do carpentry, dry walling, electrical,plumbing, bricklaying?? I don't think so. I know a lot who wanted the jobs. They are a bargain to employers because the employers have no responsibility. They don't have to comply with overtime laws, collect and match taxes, worry about OSHA regulations, workman's comp. If one gets hurt, they are taken to the hospital and the taxpayers pay for it. The media and the politicians are not giving out the true story on this. Now the reason I mentioned illegals was the fact they are working here. Americans already are competing with them for jobs, and if things get bad, it will be even more so. There is nothing wrong with mowing lawns and bussing tables, but that is not the only jobs they are doing. We will be hampered by the fact employers will have to work within the labor laws when hiring Americans, so given the choice, they will take illegals. The illegals are also getting benefits that are going to be needed for American families who loose their jobs. Again, just because Americans aren't doing the jobs, don't assume they won't or don't want to - now - but especially in the future.

Our local talk-radio guy has spent the past couple of weeks in San Francisco. He called in today, talking about the price of gas. California is expensive, but not as much as we pay, as Canadians. Ours is priced per litre, which is about your gallon. He figured it out, and the price in S.F. works out to be 82 cents per litre. We are currently paying $1.20 per litre. Ours is Tax, tax, tax. That's where we get "nailed". What on earth does Libya's unrest have to do with our prices going up, when we've never bought fuel from them. Just an excuse to gouge us more.

Tell any contractor that you assume the cost of doubling the size of a project "won't be that much different," and you'll get a reality check. It greatly depends on the size of the original project. I expect that you'd agree that pushing it out one foot as opposed to two feet "won't be that much different". That's doubling. 6 feet vs 12 feet might be more of a difference, but with part of the addition being a bathroom, I figured that the fixed cost of all of the plumbing etc would be a greater factor than the variable cost of the additional square footage. I wouldn't think you'd be able to renovate an existing bathroom for the price that the first person quoted! It goes to show that prices vary so much depending on location. My main point was that he should consider going bigger and find out actual prices. Don't get locked into a certain mindset based on possibly false assumptions. Granted, I should have said might not be instead of won't be. There are too many unknowns in this situation to make any kind of absolute judgment.