Question about contracts
feddup
8 years ago
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feddup
8 years agoRelated Discussions
Due Dilligence - Questions to ask BEFORE you sign a contract
Comments (19)saftgeek - I hate to admit it but you are all too correct about far too many attorneys! I was a high school teacher for 20 years before deciding to go to law school and I have been deeply appalled by the how truly unethical and dishonest some lawyers are. In the six years I've been practicing law, I've run into more dishonest, downright sleezy lawyers than I met incompetant teachers in twenty years of teaching school... and people are always knocking teachers for being incompetant! Shyster lawyers make me ashamed of this profession just as incompetant teachers sometimes made me ashamed of the teaching profession. I would urge you or anyone else who has evidence of a lawyer behaving dishonestly or unethically to report them to their state bar association. It might not do any good but then again, it just might. At least in Texas, I think our state bar tries to disbar the unethical lawyers whenever they can find them. It certainly sounds like your ex-boss was exactly that type. I also truly am not trying to paint GCs as dishonest. I believe the vast majority are honest folks who do their best to do a good job when building a home and, if they make mistakes, try their best to fix them. BUT, as in all professions, there are some people building homes that are either lazy, dishonest, or so downright disorganized that the homeowner who ends up hiring one of them needs to be able to go to court and get help. And, unfortunately, the contract promulgated by the Texas Association of Builders is specifically designed to protect these bottom-feeding GCs from facing the music for their bad behaviour. The funny thing is, I KNOW that it was the TAB's lawyers who drafted the d--n contract that protects the bad builders, so when I'm knocking the contract, I'm also slamming some of the members of my own profession! I actually suspect that most builders who use the TAB form contract do so because it is available to them cheaply and they don't know any more about what it really says than the homeowner does. And, so long as there are no major problems with the build - nobody is any the worse off. But, I defy any honest person who has ever READ the TAB contract to argue with a straight face that it is a fair and balanced contract. Among other things, it requires the homeowner to waive the "implied warranty of habitability". Basically an implied warranty of habitablity means that courts have said when two parties enter into a contract for one to build a home for the other, there is an implied understanding between them that the finished home will be inhabitable. The owner doesn't have to make sure to insist that language be put into the contract SAYING that the house must be able to be lived in when comleted...the courts will assume that since the contract was for the building of a home, the finished product must be something one can inhabit or it is simply not a "home." But, just in case someone WANTS just a shell - or something like that - to be built, courts will allow the parties to agree to waive the "implied warranty of habitability". Asking the homeowner to waive the implied warranty of habitablity might be fair if the homeowner wanted to build something totally new and different and the builder said, "you know, I can build that for you but I don't think it'll be something you can live in when I get done, are you SURE that's what you want?" But, I think you would have to agree that, except in those rare instances, a house should be inhabitable, just like a car should be driveable, a suit should be wearable, and a wedding cake should be edible. Would you agree to buy a new car from a manufacturer who insisted that you agree to waive the "implied warranty of driveability"? Would you purchase a suit from a tailor who refused to warrant that it would be wearable? Would you order a wedding cake from a baker who refused to guarantee that it would be edible? Why would you buy a home from someone who refused to warrant that it would be habitable????? Nevertheless, the Texas Association of Builders - with the help of its attorneys no doubt! - realized that implied warranties can be waived and that most homeowners don't ever really read or understand the contract they sign. So they put language into the form contract that waives the warranty of habitablility on every single home built under it. That means the homeowner may think he is contracting for a turn-key home but, even if the house he gets is so defective that he cannot possibly live in it - say the sewage pipe has broken in the wall so that there that raw sewage has contaminated all the insulation - the homeowner cannot argue that the builder breached the contract by building an UNIHABITABLE house. Fair????? The TAB contract also requires that the owner agree upfront to "binding arbitration" in the event of a dispute. This doesn't sound too bad...unless you happen to know a couple of facts about binding arbitration. First, arbitration is MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE than small claims court even though most building disputes are going to be over amounts small enough have brought the claim in small claims court. Second, arbitrators are selected and PAID by the parties to the dispute which means that arbitrators make more money if they are selected for more cases. If an arbitrator wants future work, they have to make sure that the party that is more likely to bring them future business is happy. Care to guess which party is more likely to NEED to hire an arbitrator for a second or third or fourth construction dispute? Some studies have shown that homeowners win less than 5% of claims that go to arbitration but win about half of claims that are tried in a court of law. Even those few homeowners who are nominal winners in arbitration almost never win enough money to actually repair their homes! The TAB contract also requires that the builder receive his final payment, in full, (i.e. NO RETAINAGE) at the time of the final walk-through even though it also specifies that a punch list of items to be corrected/completed/repaired will be made at this same time. In theory the builder is supposed to return and finish the punch list. But, WHY should the unscrupulous builder bother? After all, he has already been paid in full AND the homeowner can't even sue him in small claims court due to the binding arbitration clause I already mentioned? Do you think that is fair? I could go on and on about other clauses that are in the TAB contract but I suspect I've made my point. A builder who insists on using the TAB contract after having some of its many unfair clauses pointed out to him may not actually BE dishonest but, IMHO, neither is he the kind of straight shooter I really want to deal with. Straight shooters are willing to play on a level playing field....See Morefinished kitchen people -- some advice please!
Comments (13)There are so many different situations! But really the contractor is suppose to get you to sign immediately for change requests and size requests and material requests ***Well: we always put allowance: unless they come in first day stating: "I want Blue Pearl in my kitchen" I call : get pricing right then and there and that goes in the quote. Changes: along the way: SHOULD BE signed for! "Mr Customer: your tile allowance is for 12x12 and you want 16x16." Sign New REVISED:Estimate! Very important: 9 times out of 10. I call the customer and tell them their $900 allowance for their granite turned into $1100.49 (slab price) no upcharge: delivery usually $65. They scream and call my boss! They usually get their way: and my boss "eats" the cost and loses money!!!!!!! I see this every week!!!!!! same with tile: they want 18x18 but allowance states 12x12 @ $1.89 sf but the 20x20 are $2.44 sf. They scream and call my boss and she doesn't want them to cancel. they get their way and my boss loses money! I don't surprise people. another example: "listelli" allowance $4.00 each: they turn around and want "glass" tiles: $18.00 sf. Yeah they are going to pay the upcharge! or they aren't getting the glass they want. Or they can go buy their own glass and I will take the "listelli" allowance off their estimate and invoice. This is a daily issue for me and I have learned the hard way: I communicate with customer at all times! Or it doesn't get installed. I have a hugh problem right now: (see my side of it) Customer signed an estimate in SEPTEMBER! yeah: and now he has modified his cabinets. We did templates 2 weeks ago. 15 sf extra added. We could have done the kitchen as it was with a HUGH one slab that I found and had on hold: So adding 15 sf: kicked him into 2 slabs.3cm "Tan Brown" is granite: fyi: so now it's going to cost $1500 for the "Tan Brown": to buy them from vendor! His allowance is for $1000.00 (the difference is because I found 2 smaller slabs that are $750.00 each) + my boss is still paying his $65 shipping not on his estimate) #1 we have him @ out the door priced $52.63 sf for 3cm "Tan Brown 95 sf kitchen. $5000.00. His original September 2008 estimate is for $4400.00. My point: he won't sign new estimate and he is LIVID mad! This is just the things I have to deal with on a daily basis. Yes, we have 1/2 his money for old estimate. If we allow him to stay at the $4400.00 for his kitchen: that will be $46.32 per sf. 95 sf kitchen. That includes demo, undermount sink cut out, and drop in stove! And granite 4" splash! Unbelievable. Basically we are installing his kitchen for FREE if he gets his way! Great last example: what if your granite allowance is $1000 on 70 sf kitchen. You sign and give your 1/2 down: Then you turn around and pick-out "Labrador Antique" Granite. Those are $1700 slabs! can be! now: why would we give the customer $1700 slabs X 2 = $3400.00 and lost $2400 on the deal. My boss or myself tell the customer they just picked a granite WAY out of their allowance! New Estimate: and Signature required! CYA (I am venting: a little: but I mean there is always two sides to every issue. There are contractors out their who are not upfront and honest and then their are: but in the end: what matters is that the customer is happy and tells a good story about their INSTALL EXPERIENCE to their friends! I always keep that in mind!) ~I hope this helped you and others~ ~Best wishes~...See MoreOT question about contract allowances
Comments (22)We all have been there, every one of us. When we first started a reno or a build, we knew nothing. After we have done a few of these and been burned due to our own lack of knowledge as well as contractors inability to communicate on the same level (this is in no way a slam on contractors), we learn to ask, think about the answers and question how those numbers exist. The first time I built a deck onto a house we owned, I had a huge fight with a retailer over stuff that was never shipped and barely made it out without losing a lot of money. The last deck I built, I calmly walked in and told them we were short about 900 bucks worth of lumber. Makes me laugh even 7 years later. He was an assistant mgr for a big box chain and was all "Well, I can tell you I counted it all myself and it was all there.." My answer was, "okay, so you counted it all and it was all correct. So when you had to come back out because you delivered 2 cases of 8ft light bulbs instead of 2 8ft lights, that was you that counted it... correct? When you had to come out a 3rd time in one day because you had delivered 2 boxes of shingles when the order clearly stated it was 2 pallets of shingles, that was you, right?.. and listed all the things wrong that had them out 4 times in one day".. heh There is some responsibility to think of the numbers and add it all up and ask yourself, "is this realistic to ME?" if the answer is no.. then you would not be surprised when you go back to the contractor and they give you the news. Not trying to be mean to the OP, but we have no pony in this race and it took us less than 20 minutes, based upon the numbers given to us, to realize that something was off. This is a miscommunication/misunderstanding. Chalk it up as a learning experience, but the contractor, in my opinion, would not be responsible for making up the difference. Maybe they did not speak clearly, but maybe they thought you understood too. Either way, your choice should be to learn from this issue and apply it to the future ones and either pony up the difference or let them put the doors they want into the house and replace them later as you go along. Three C's of building, carpet, counters, cabinets.. everything else is easy schmeasy to replace later. Good luck! Russ...See MoreQuestion about architect blueprint pricing
Comments (25)None of us here were at the early meetings, or a party to any discussions or information exchanges, so we can only respond based on the normal and standard practices of the architectural profession and our experience therein. "... My in-laws made an assumption that that would be a few hundred dollars (yes, assumptions get you in trouble). Just seems shady not to mention exactly, or at least ballpark, how much the construction plans would cost..." I don't know why or how they could have made such an assumption, but given the amount of work actually required that sort of thinking is simply and completely unreasonable. Look at the itemized scope of services provided in your description above. How could that be provided for "a few hundred dollars"? That means someone at a $100/hr billing rate would spend up to three hours to complete your project! Does that sound reasonable? Or even remotely possible? So far as I can see from this thread, there was nothing shady, unethical or unusual about the contract arrangements or sums. There was an initial phase to create a design, "to the owner's satisfaction", for a modest sum of $3,000. As a retired architect, I would have never used the term "to the owner's satisfaction" (since I well know how often consumers can change their minds over the smallest, often inconsequential, issue), and I would not have used a fixed sum, but an hourly rate, so that the owners had a share in the responsibility for how long the design phase took. So in this phase, the owners really got a bargain, and to their advantage. The fact that your MIL is "hooked" on the design suggests your family got their money's worth and what they were hoping for. Having a separate, fixed fee for the necessary detailed construction drawings and specifications is a good (and normal) practice. The list of items covered in the description above is very thorough and complete; it's far more than many residential architects, designers and drafters ever provide! The fee for these services is reasonable and may actually be low, if separate engineering design, drawings and calculations, or other services, are required by the local jurisdiction. As proposed, your family will receive a much more thorough and complete set of documents for bidding and construction than is the norm. As a result, the quality of construction and lasting value should be significantly higher than normal. You are concerned about why the costs for services weren't itemized up front. It's a reasonable concern. As you describe, the architect said there would be an initial charge for the first phase (design) and a subsequent charge for services to complete the project. Until the schematic design of the house was complete and approved, the architect had no way of knowing the scope and extent of time and services required to prepare and complete the construction drawings and specifications. It would be like trying to determine if something was bigger than a bread basket and/or flatter than a pancake. How would anyone know the scope and complexity of the house (and the amount of time to prepare and complete the required construction drawing and specifications) until the owners had first approved a design? If you buy a ready-made plan from one of the Internet plan factories, you will thereafter have to spend money to have the plan adapted to your family's needs; you will have to have pay for a foundation design to fit your specific site; you will have to pay for the necessary engineering structural services; for the creation of systems plans--HVAC; electrical, lighting, signal and controls; plumbing, etc. Your local jurisdiction may have other special requirements to be addressed, i.e., seismic or hurricane forces, etc. All of these are included in the services the architect has proposed. I'm very sorry that this situation has occurred and that your family feels wronged or misled. But, as far as I can tell, the total costs are reasonable, and actually less than normal in many areas, for the extent of services provided. I know this is likely not what you want to hear at this point, but it is a fair and reasonable response to the situation which has been described. I sincerely wish you and your family good luck with your project....See MoreUser
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