It sounds like griddle cooking is important to you. You might include the BS RNB on your list as well. The silly portable griddle/grill on the Platinum would be a deal breaker for me, love my RNB griddle, gets daily use, sometimes several times a day...

@cookncarpenter: Thanks for the suggestion to check out the RNB. The appliance store where I tested the BlueStar only had the Platinum model hooked up, but maybe I can find the RNB live in a store near me. And you're right, I'm really leaning towards an integrated griddle -- agree that the Platinum one was a bad option. I wasn't in love with the baking in the BlueStar, though -- do you find your RNB bakes evenly?

Yes my RNB seems to bake evenly, although must admit I'm not a huge baker, just the usual cookies, cakes, pies etc. Roasts are great! Broiler is small but extremely hot, learning curve required, hint leave door open a bit so it does not cycle on/off. I never use convection, because the fan noise bugs me...

I have the Wolf DF and it was great for 4.5 years. You might want to search blue porcelain chipping on this forum. Wolf has redesigned their wall ovens with the hope that it will be fixed. They have done nothing for the DF ranges. I would love to replace mine but have not found a DF range in which I have confidence. I think you are better off to buy a range top and separate wall ovens. You can pick the best for you of each.

I think you are looking at pretty logical choices. And yes, I think you are looking at the only 2 combi's that are plumbed, though I have a non plumbed one and find it is extremely easy to use. One thing I would point out is that you will likely use your combi oven as an oven far more than the one in the range, unless you are cooking for large groups often. In regular convection mode, the combi will probably reach cooking temp in about 5 minutes, and while they look small, you can cook a fair amount in them. The only downsides as ovens are that most top out at 440F, and you usually can't operate in straight bake mode, you have to have convection which is not always the best choice. Even if you are making a large amount of cookies, you can buy extra trays and probably cook 4 trays at once.

Thanks for the comments about the Wolf porcelain chipping -- I actually thought (after reading through these forums) that this issue had been addressed in the newer ranges and ovens. Unfortunately I don't have space for a cooktop and separate double ovens, hence the range + combi-steam option.

@barryv -- thanks for the feedback on the combi -- have you found that you're also using your cooktop less? One of the sales people told me that it would make sense to have the 4 burner + griddle for the range (which was my inclination to begin with) b/c with a steam oven you actually cook many things in the oven which you previously would cook on the stovetop (e.g. rice).

Bphansen, yes, I use the cook top less, but not enough to notice. I don't make rice in the combi, just because I don't make it all that often. I do steam shrimp and spinach in the combi, but again, not often enough to notice a real difference. The combi does allow some new choices though - I made two cheesecakes earlier this week and used the combi - steam only at 190F. It is like using a water bath, but you don't have to mess with filling a pan with water, or leaking, and the steam surrounds the entire cheesecake, not just part of it. You put saran wrap over the top of the cheesecake and secure it with a rubber band.

1. All of those ranges except BS have electronics under the burners - not just Miele

2. Wolf enamel chipping definitely not addressed on the DF ranges -> avoid

I would also look at:

Capital

American Range

KitchenAid/JennAir

GE Monogram

DCS

You might look at a Lancanche. That's what we bought and we are very happy with it. You can even get a double oven in a pretty small package (~40" range). We got a Volnay (warming cupboard, electric oven, and 5 burner gas top with different size burners that are VERY good at heat transfer) and a Gagg combi-steam oven to go with it. Are happy with our choices, esp. the range. They have a program where owners will offer to show you their range since they only have a few showrooms (LA, Seattle, NYC). They are very configurable and also gorgeous IMHO, which doesn't hurt. Service is top notch. Ranges are beautifully built, made in France, great colors. Price...well, not cheap but worth it to us. Worth a look. Here's my favorite pic to date, taken at Thanksgiving with our 'lil sous chef. (frenchranges.com)

Our Updated 1950s Kitchen with French Inspiration · More Info

"Also didn't realize that the enamel chipping was still a problem on the
Wolf DF (which is really a bummer b/c I do love that range)."
I loved mine and one of the reasons we bought Wolf was the service and at the time, they really stood behind their products, even past the warranty period. We were told we would not need an extended warranty for Wolf unlike the other products we bought. They will stand behind their products for two years but not past that. The DFs seem to take longer to develop the chipping and it isn't from the stress in the corners. It is directly over the elements in most cases. Either it is more difficult to address or they don't feel the necessity to address it like the wall ovens and it seems that it might actually be a profit center for their repair people. Here is the

Consumer Affairs complaint page. I have not entered mine yet.
Anyway so much for the "decades of service". "Empowered to resolve any issues you may have to your true satisfaction"-NOT.

It seems difficult for the manufacturers to get an electric oven right. The more "sophisticated", the more the chance for problems. There are issues with the ovens not cooking evenly. The third element(euro or true convection) should help but sometimes it creates hot spots. Sometimes the fans can do that as well. Read the use and care manual carefully. Some ovens have a "strong" preheat and warn against putting food in the oven until preheated. My Electrolux oven has a fast preheat but it is optional. Some ovens work by preheating the oven rapidly and then use an rapidly oscillating element programmed to maintain the temperature of the oven. Unfortunately it does not have any mechanism to correct for heat loss like an oven that works on a thermostat. It cannot allow the preheat to come on because it would burn your food so it has to drop 150F before it can correct. In my experience, this actually ends up that the middle of the oven drops 200F before the difference of 150F occurs by the thermostat. If you do anything that opens and closes the door frequently, like baking cookies the temperature drifts down. Capital electric ovens are very clear in their use and care manual that they work that way but I also had a Dacor range and wall oven that worked that way. They both have the under glass elements in common. Dacor did buy my ovens back some years ago but not sure if they did or even can correct the problem. I keep hoping a DF range will come up that works as well as the Wolf to replace mine but there seem to be so many issues that I am considering all gas even though it won't be as even as the Wolf.

Ovens on American ranges are definitely bigger and this bigger size was a problem for me. We are only two people and I came to really love the smaller oven in my vintage range that we replaced. I love that smaller ovens heat up faster. The long heat up times on the 36" American ranges were a strike against them for me. The Cluny ovens are smaller than my oven in the Volnay which is smaller than ovens in most American ranges, including most ovens in a 30" range. You can fit a 1/2 sheet pan in the Cluny oven and it fits very comfortably in the Volnay (a few inches all around). I often roast 2 or 3 half sheet pans of veggies at the same time. Roast veggies cook faster than any other oven I've ever used (which if a lot since we moved >10 times in our 20s & 30s). I'm not sure if it's the smaller size or convection or what, but it's awesome. I love being able to roast potatoes in 25 minutes, 35 if you include the time to heat up the oven enough to get them started. Our 18lb turkey fit just fine in it. Personally the size of the Volnay oven is just perfect for us and for entertaining my family (N=13). Overall, I just love this range.

I think one reason many like their smaller steam combi ovens is that they are smaller and heat up so much faster than their larger American oven. I expected I'd really love the Gagg, and I like it but I don't feel the same affection as I do for my Lacanche. Not sure why. I do think the combination of the two rocks. Generally, I don't like techy appliances in my kitchen. I don't want to think very hard and I want things to work simply. I didn't like all the buttons on the Miele interface. Too many to get it started IMHO. The Gagg interface was simpler and I still think its a reason its taken me a little longer to warm up to it. I still look at the manual all the time to figure out what does what and what the symbols mean (it was installed last sept). I think the same would have been true with the Miele. I think because my work life involves being a technical analyst I want the converse in my kitchen! I do like the defrost, refresh (warm up), and the precision of the exact temperature that the Gagg provides - it's a nice compliment to the Lacanche, but the Lacanche is my go to. I got the Gagg over the Miele because of the simpler interface, it was plumbed (Miele didn't have this option at the time we bought), and I got the last model (270/271) new in box with full warranty on ebay for half off. I would have gotten the Miele had I not gotten a good deal - I think the full price of the new Gagg is silly. Stainless isn't the easiest to keep clean, which is a bit of a downer. I just spent several hours cleaning it and it still isn't completely clean. If the Miele is black/dark color on the interior that'd be a plus.

Wow, thanks for all of the feedback on the Wolf DF -- maybe I need to reconsider the DF direction (which is where I was going b/c of the baking that I do). I did also try the Wolf gas range (when I was also testing out the DF Wolf oven), and it baked quite nicely. Again it was more "gas-style" (e.g. brown bottoms, but not all over brownness like the DF convection). As I mentioned, no idea how the Wolf roasts, though, since I only had 1 hr on it. Any idea if the Wolf gas ovens have fixed the enamel chipping issue? Looks like I may also need to look at the RNB and some of the options listed above.

I forgot to mention thank you for the extensive feedback on the Lacanche as well -- I might need to go to the Ambassador program to see one in action (a model different from the Cluny).

Oh, one thing on the steam ovens (with the caveat that I haven't actually used either the Miele or Gaggenau but did look both over closely)...I totally agree that the Miele interface is too complicated. I asked the sales guy if you could control the steam % on the Miele (like you can on the Gagg), and he says, "Yes, I know I saw that," and then proceeds to spend 5 minutes clicking through different screens trying to find that capability. The Gagg interface seems a lot more user-friendly. The Miele has this perforated metal interior (I've forgotten what the salesman told me it was, but it's not stainless) that is apparently much easier to clean. The sales guy told me a story where he was cooking a steak in the steam oven (on convection) then decided to try switching to steam, which proceeded to spray hot grease and steak juice over the inside of the oven. He said it was actually quite easy to clean with a sponge. I also liked that the Miele has a feature that drains the water from the pump at the end of cooking (although it's noisy when it does this).

bphansen,

The Wolf AG does not have the blue interior, so no chipping. It does have a convection fan. It is a single fan, single speed and no third element. Gas ovens are by their design better for roasting. They move more air through them so moisture is vented out which makes a drier environment and promotes the Maillard reaction for browning. The down side is more heat and moisture into your kitchen. Some electric ,wn

ovens may compensate by having a roasting mode with the heat coming more from the top and the fan on high speed to produce similar results. One of the reasons electric ovens are better for some baking is that they hold onto added moisture or moisture from what you are baking. This is helpful in things that have to rise at least during the time it is rising. If your oven has a convection bake mode this is often using a slow fan speed. Another benefit might be if you are baking 4 trays of cookies you can use a setting called something like "pure convection" with more heat from the third element(true or European convection) to heat the trays more evenly. I also read on another post that Wolf is raising the BTUs on the DF but not the AG right away.

@wekick -- thanks for the coherent explanation about gas vs. electric and roasting vs. baking (which explains why that BlueStar made such a great chicken). About Wolf raising the BTUs, I called the Wolf Experience Center near me to ask about that, and they said that it's in the works but wouldn't expect to see anything for at least 2 years. So it doesn't seem that would be an option in the near term.

Do you mean for the AG? On the other thread, they seemed to think that it was going to be this summer for the DF.

Actually, I didn't specify AG or DF when I asked about the increase in BTUs -- I'll have to double-check.

I have to admit that after starting this thread, I took a steam oven cooking class, and for part of the class the instructor was cooking on a Gaggenau induction cooktop. Man, I just fell in love with that thing -- super responsive, low lows and high highs and easy to clean. So after all of my range research, I'm thinking about completely switching gears to an induction cooktop and 30" wall oven underneath. That was my original idea but then I switched to a range after I realized that I could maximize my cooking surface with that -- but after trying induction, I'm going back that way! I'd be willing to give up a 6th burner for the responsiveness of induction. Am still testing out the Miele range, though, so maybe that will put me back on the path of the range.

bphansen, did you ever try the Miele 48" range? I'm trying to decide between the Miele, Thermador and Wolf 48". Th miele is new and doesn't have a lot of reviews. The Thermador ranges seem to have mixed reviews. I'm specifically interested in the pro grand steam range. Wolf seems great other than the chipping issue. Not sure which way to go...

Sorry, just took a look at this thread again and noticed your question...by the time I got to Miele, I had decided on induction, so I didn't give the Miele an actual test drive. I did give it a pretty thorough inspection at the Miele place, though, and thought it was a very sexy range -- and the performance seemed very similar to the Wolf dual fuel. I say that b/c the Miele also has the stacked burners, which I really liked, but the BTUs are higher than Wolf (which top out at around 16k, I believe -- Miele was closer to 20k or so -- I can't quite remember).

The Miele ovens on the 48" range were very nice -- the smaller one is a speed oven, and the bigger one is a regular convection. The speed oven wasn't a big plus for me personally, since I really wanted a steam oven as a second oven, but there are people on this forum who love their speed ovens. One thing I really liked about the Miele oven, which Wolf doesn't have, is the burst of steam option, which is great for baking (you can program up to 3 bursts of steam for up to 6 min. each during cooking). I didn't care that much about the MasterChef options on Miele, but again, others love these. At any rate, the Miele seemed very similar to the Wolf, I liked the steam option on the oven better and liked the Miele burners better (also, if you're interested in a grill, theirs was excellent and seemed very similar to the Wolf, which I think is the best in the business). If I had stuck with a range, I would have been very tempted by the Miele.

Any reviews on the 36" Miele gas range?

Gas oven Miele reviews please.

I replaced my gas 48" thermador range(broke after 10 years and they couldn't fix it) with a BlueStar all gas 48" RNB (to get the integrated griddle). Even the appliance store was trying to talk me out of the BluStar. I LOVE it, I have had no issues with it in the 9 months I have had it. Cooking and baking have been a dream. If you are worried about the clean up, don't. Cleaning is so much easier than cleaning a black enameled top with stars or circles to clean around. I looked at all of the review and wanted to give my opinion for anyone currently on the market.

We just bought a Thermador 48” pro grand AG and the cooling fans sound like there is a jet plane in my kitchen. don’t want to pay restocking fee, but strongly considering. How loud is the BS RNB In terms of cooling fans? I read the part about getting hot, but nobody seemed to mention loud cooling fans above. appreciate any feedback

hope all are safe during this pandemic

There are no cooling fans in Bluestar RNB and RCS ranges (no delicate electronics that need to be cooled).

There is only the convection fan which is not whisper quiet, but definitely not jet engine loud either. It is quieter than my hood set to its lowest speed, but it does have a higher pitched sound. On the RNB and RCS ranges, the convection fan is only on when you decide to switch it on. On the Platinum, I think it is on whenever the oven is on (I've never used a Bluestar Platinum).

The Bluestar doors were redesigned about four years ago and do not get appreciably hot anymore. I've not had any problem with the door on my 2016 30" RCS being too hot.

Curious what you ended up deciding and if happy with the decision.