How about hanging some botanical prints in the space? :)

I don't know if it would work to put in a single wider door, maybe 36"? And leave the window as is. Or do you still run into the same expenses as you would putting in a slider.

Palimpsest - I loved looking at the house in that link. Incidentally, while, in a lot of ways, my neighborhood is worlds apart, I am in the same zip code. Another incidentally: when I first moved to Philadelphia, I lived a block and a half from that house, in a 400 sf studio apartment, for a year and a half. I love that neighborhood. Love the antique stores, love the energy, love it.

Texasgal47 - I do love the original design. Truth is that I really can't take on another job. I work a lot, and went out my guest room to short term travelers. I live a very modest lifestyle, hardly shop, don't really take vacations at all, don't have cable (or a television at all for that matter.)

rantontoo - Palimpsest is right, there's no need re-sale wise to put a powder room on the first floor. I've brought it up in the past as one of the things that makes my house not an "age in place" kind of house, but, the truth is, that once getting up the stairs gets hard, this really won't be the house for me for other reasons, too.

Oh, and Palimpsest - those stairs are exactly like mine!

Blfenton - You know, the window is about 32" wide, and a standard door is 32" wide, I kind of like the idea of that symmetry. And if we can make the door taller (window height) with a transom, and make the window lower towards the floor, I think it could look really nice. Maybe, if I have time tomorrow, I try sketching up what I'm thinking. I wish I had a computer program that would do that for me!

Art I'll need to find a new home for:

So this is what you mean with the transom over the door? Actually, framing the door and window out with molding would accent them and that could be really neat.

Blfenton - yes, something like that with the transom. Speaking of which, here's my front door:

You can't duplicate the look because the back door and front doors are different but that is the look I would mimic, including the molding. I like your front door and I like the glass you have displayed with the light playing on it.

No, and I'm not trying to duplicate the look. Just showing that I already have one transom!

Is this what you are thinking? I would probably make the window sill line up with the bottom rail of the door:

Contractor called me yesterday evening to get clarity on what I was thinking. He believes that this change will significantly reduce costs - and will eliminate the need to reinforcement to the second floor by bolting the walls up there- a lintel alone (I think that's what I understood) will reinforce a new, standard door, and the above floors will not need bolting - which was a significant contributor to the expense.

I've been thinking a lot about my back wall (of course) and the compromise that would mean losing the WOW focal point, whether it's worth the extra $$$ to me. I think, what it may come down to, is that, depending on what I hear back in terms of cost differential, it may just not be worth it. I don't want to look at that WOW door every day and have it remind me that I'm not fiscally intelligent - to have it bring up anxiety about how I'm going to fare in old age. Now, I don't yet have $ #'s, and there are a few people (builder brother, etc) that I want to run this by, but increasing my kitchen budget by some 30-40% for a door just may not make sense for me.

Here's my sketch up. I had thought maybe to re-use my current door - but I think it makes more sense for the handle to be on the right, so door will open toward the window & can be left open in the summer w/o getting in the way of the far cabinet & range. Also, it's important to me that the window to be able to opened, but not sure what makes the most sense w/ such a tall window. Ideas? Also, does the placement of the door in my sketch look good?

(again, maybe trying to talk myself into it) One advantage - both window & door (hopefully) could be open at the same time - not a possibility w/ a slider. That, and that I like regular opening doors better than sliders, but a French door would have eaten into the kitchen. Now, door can open to the window & not get in the way.

I like your new plan!

Love the picture blfenton posted just above and if you incorporated the trim to accommodate the window it would look great, as opposed to kinda together. No matter your decisions this forum is great food for thought, I am sure it will be outstanding. I would assume since you are a gardener, you love the outside (even from inside), like me... so I would really consider NOT giving up that light n view. I am now getting ready to redo my kitchen and plan to move my cooktop to a peninsula mostly for the view outside across a breakfast area. I will have to concede some venting efficiency to do this but I guess we can't have everything. Will post pics soon and hope to get the thought provoking feedback you are.
Also you mentioned your financial planner doesn't want you to take money from savings... of course he doesn't... he makes $$$ on it... mine never did but now that I am 65 doesn't quibble so much about it. Also the market can dip and take that from you, giving you nothing for the loss. You know you finances better than anyone, and your comfort level with everything up in the air... comfort now or at retirement... or hopefully both. I too have lived, as an antiques dealer, somewhat cautiously with expenditures, but also spend a lot to achieve what I feel is really worth it. Another thing I take advantage of is no financing for 6-12 mths w/whatever I can, then if need be I take from savings. I find that VERY helpful. Obviously you do not do things w/o thought and comprehensive thought.
Pictures would be great along the way so we can see the end results please... the best to you!

Can you post a picture of the corner where your door is located, including the door? I just got confused. Thanks.

bfelton, it appears this is the plan: lengthen the existing window and move the door from the corner in about 27"-30"-ish to allow for cabinets and counter to the right of the new door:

Mags - ceiling fan's a good idea!

crl_ - :)

Maine Susan - I like blfenton's photo, too, and was thinking along those lines. I am a professional gardener, and would love as many and as big windows as possible, but there's a reality to the finiteness of my budget, and I'm not feeling comfortable with the expense. I will absolutely post photos!

Blfenton - here ya go:

Palimpsest - ya, you got it right with your drawing.

Carrie B, we have a similar set-up as you're proposing - single door opens towards window in our nook. The plans called for the door to open towards the counter and I'm so glad we changed it so that we can open the door 180 deg and out of the way.

(PS My goals also were to increase views to my garden. Before my chronic illness forced me to retire, I was a garden writer.)

Lisa_a - the photos on your profile here are lovely! I think I need at least 12", if not more, between my window and door - that support of the brick wall is crucial for my budget. Your garden through that window is lovely! I have 12' between the back of my house & the side of my neighbor's 3 story house - so not nearly the room for a view as you have.

Garden writers have given me much pleasure (not to mention knowledge) over the years. Thank you for that. I hope you're enjoying the same lovely day that I am.

I am, thank you, even though I'm on the opposite coast (OR). Thanks for the compliments, too.

Decades ago, I dated a guy who lived in Philly. I loved to visit him (I lived in FL at the time) and explore the city while he worked. I walked everywhere. And of course, I ran up the steps of the Philadelphia Museum of Art and did the Rocky move, like a zillion other tourists at the time. He had a funky apartment downtown; you had to walk through the bedroom to get from LR to kitchen. One of his co-worker's apartments had a spiral staircase to the bedroom above. He had to move his bedroom furniture in through the upstairs window. Ah, the quirks of living in old buildings in old cities.

Palimpsest - thanks for the drawing - that's where my disconnect came from because I knew about adding counters on that wall to the right but didn't connect that to moving the door. DUH.

Carrie B - thanks for the photo. I'm back on track thanks to that and Pal's sketch.

I love your home, Carrie. I like your last sketch very much. How thick is that exterior wall from the inside out? It doesn't look thick enough through that existing window and door to account for at least two courses of structural brick. Have you been to the Historical Society to see if it has records showing how the homes in your neighborhood were built? That information could assist you (and your contractor) in planning modifications. It also is a source of information for structural engineers who have special expertise in historical homes. It may be worthwhile to spend a bit of money on an engineer who can do some load calculations for every configuration you've been considering. That information could determine your choice(s). A single 6-7' span may be better than one, or two, windows and a relocated door. You'd also find out it if you need the steel rod through your second floor regardless of which change you settle on. The Historical Society can also give you the names of contractors who have worked on historical homes. You aren't going to get "recommendations" (for liability reasons) for engineers or contractors, but you can get names of those who have done a lot of work there - and it's unlikely that it would be anyone who did a poor job.

It does not sound as if you have gotten ideas/estimates from other than one contractor. Would it not be wise to shop your inspiration pictures around to a few contractors? We do it for kitchen cabinets of a lot less value than a home.

Thinking of your contractor - have you obtained from him/her a certificate of insurance with at least $1 mil coverage? Sorry to raise such an issue, but with party walls and other very close homes . . . I've been thinking about that since reading that there may be a steel beam header. You would have to get a very heavily insured crane operator for that.

If you are going to move the door 30-36" to the left, have you thought of making the doorway 34"? One inch on either side larger than the window would be noticed only by the most discerning eye but would make moving things in and out (such as a refrigerator or range) much more likely. (But maybe your front door is wider and you'd just be going straight back into the kitchen.)

Elongating the window - nice idea, but could an even taller stretch of glass of the same width, unless you have the window specially engineered, survive the stress and flex of everyday normal movement - or a wall-shaking thunder clap?

Every opening would require a header. Maybe two 2x8's sistered? I don't think the steel lintels serve the same function as headers. Also, I think it was jerzee above, pointed out that until the walls are opened you won't know the real cost of making any modifications. For example, that window certainly looks like a "modern" modification. You don't know if it was installed correctly. Even in the unlikely event that a permit was pulled, L&I is, shall I say, inconsistent? L&I approval really means nothing as far as whether the work was properly done. Another reason to check in with a structural engineer and more than one contractor.

Reality check time! Even if you decide to spend whatever figure you had in mind when starting this thread, you should be sure it goes to accomplishing everything thing you want done, not having it blown on "unforeseen conditions" and correction of mistakes.

Lisa_a - I really love Philly & feel so lucky to have landed here. I rent out my guest room via Airbnb, so get to play "tour guide" all the time. Love it.

12crumbles - Wall is about a foot thick. A neighbor, an amateur historian says that my house (the houses in my immediate neighborhood) was build between 1815 & 1860, most likely right around 1830. The distance from the inner edge of the window to that right corner is 80", so, 25.5" for cabinet, 32" for door, that leaves a maximum of 22.5" between the window & door. Do you think the historical society would give me names of structural engineers? My house isn't considered historical - it's kind of considered "typical Philadelphia" though it is very old.

Is a "steel beam header" the same as a lintel? I've been trying to find another contraction - but not having much luck through Angie's List & Home Advisor... either not returning my calls, or, the few that came out here, I didn't trust and/or did not feel confident in them. I'm struggling with that.

I haven't thought about making the door bigger only because the expense seems to get bigger with size of hole/structural support the bigger I get. And, stuff usually gets brought in through the front door. Bringing it in through the back would mean carrying whatever it is through the garden gate, then through the garden first. Fridge is going to be 27", and range 30", so they'll both fit fine through my 36" front door.

Good question about the elongated window. I have no idea. Contractor seemed to think the existing lintel would be good enough in terms of support, but he will be consulting w/ his builder. And, that, and depending on cost... I may end up leaving the window exactly as is. Ah, OK, now you're talking about headers. I don't know what a header is, and am feeling tired enough right now not to look it up.

Heh heh. You're familiar with L & I, I see. Yes, you are.

I love the new idea! Your drawing is great. If it saves you a small fortune and if it is structurally safe, then I REALLY LOVE IT! Also, love the idea of hanging your art in between on the wall section with a picture light above.

If you could lower the window height to match the door height, how about adding a transom above the window that matches with the one above the door for symmetry?

Rebunky - You know, if this site is good for anything besides really good advice, it's good for justifying more $!

I don't think I want to lower the window for a transom - I think we'd need to put in an extra support, then (lintel, header, whatever) and I'm trying to reduce costs. Even lengthening it down may end up being too expensive - it might stay just as is. The door & window don't have to match, I just want them to look OK together.

I do love your enthusiasm for my latest idea!

Love the idea of having matching transoms over the door and window.

PS: I currently have a valance at the top of the window - a valance would be about the same dimensions as a transom. They could harmonize rather than match...

or with the window shorter, run one transom the whole length of the door n window... though I would imagine that was a problem of not using two glass doors in the beginning... and I can't remember everything I have read in this long post! Ha... we are all good at trying to spend your money...

Maine Susan - I think that does bring us back to square one in terms of the expense for the structural support...

Yup, you are the champions (well, I should say "we" - I've done that here, too) of spending other people's money!

The wall has to support itself, but it's not a load bearing wall in terms of supporting any joists or anything above is it? The joists run left to right here, I am assuming.

If you keep the window in its exact position left to right, it should not be expensive to lengthen it toward the floor, that's just a matter of cutting straight down.

I think you have to strike a balance here between maintaining your budget but also not being so strict with it that you do something so conservative that it doesn't look like you did anything at all. Moving the door a bit is not something that a lot of people would notice.--you wouldn't be getting a lot of bang for your buck--many people are not very spatial. You will potentially improve the layout, but you could improve the layout by shortening the window and running counter under it, too.

Palimpsest - I have no idea about the joists and how they run. Good that you don't think lowering the window is such a big deal. Even if cutting it isn't a big deal, will finding a window (I guess I'll need to go custom?) be expensive? And what about opening it? Will I need to have two sections - a double hung on top and a separate, stationary window on the bottom? Should I do casement? I can't figure that part out.

words of wisdom from you: "I think you have to strike a balance here between maintaining your
budget but also not being so strict with it that you do something so
conservative that it doesn't look like you did anything at all."

You don't have a house to your right, but typically the houses have joists that run party wall to party wall or left to right rather than front to back so it is the side walls that are holding the floors and the house up.

If your kitchen is in addition, which it well may be since these houses often originally had the stairs in the back corner and were one room deep, maybe the ones in the kitchen and whatever is above run the other way.

Palimpsest - there used to be a house to my right, long before I owned this place. Story is that it was abandoned & torn down, and former owner of my house bought it. My kitchen was not an addition - house footprint is all original rectangle. If that's the case, does that mean that original estimate is way too high - all that re-enforcement is not necessary?

If you replace the window, and keep in mind I don't know anything about Philly architecture, could you do a window at whatever length, that finishes at the top of the door transom and then where the transom starts just above the door, do a hinged window outwards at that same horizontal. Although you may want it to open more.

Sort of like this - and the bottom could move or be stationary: window opening at top

I don't know, because I am assuming certain conditions. You do need headers for the door and window because the masonry above the door and window needs to stay up, if you know what I mean, and the compressive force needs to be transferred down around the sides of the door and window. But you may only need to be supporting the wall itself rather than the wall and floor above. I am probably not explaining this too well. Yes you need structural support and you have to make sure the wall stays properly tied to the house. I've seen things that have been done where I assume the wall is staying up by sheer force of habit and luck--and sometimes of course they don't and the wall falls off the front or back of the house.

Blfenton - so, I think what you're suggesting is to basically put in a big stationary window, with an opening transom up above, right? That's a possibility, though the transom (or small hinged window) would need some time of mechanism to allow me to open from below - it's way above reaching level. It would let in some air, which would be nice - though I'd probably want it to open more than that 12".

Palimpsest - I guess I don't understand the difference between a header and a lintel. I think my doors & windows currently have lintels, at least, that's what I've always believed, though I could be wrong.

Lintel is probably more correct in this case.

One thing to consider in the financial fuss is that fixing up your house is not necessarily money lost forever out of your retirement fund. It is possible that you could get a better return on investment putting that money in your house vs. wherever you have that money now. Depends on interest rates, the market, and how much value you are actually adding to to your house, but a house can be like a non-liquid savings account. The money isn't just GONE if you invest it in your house in smart way. A house is an asset.

If you never sell your house in your lifetime, and you live an especially long time, then you might regret that you tied up some money in your house. But because this is decidedly not an age-in-place kind of a house, it seems fairly likely that at some point maybe 20 or 30 years from now, you will move to a home that is more old people friendly.

Then you will sell your current home and, at that point, will this window wall help sell your home easily, and will this window wall sell your home for price that is higher by at least the same or more than the cost of the window wall?

I am not an expert in real estate (you should talk to one of those), but I would think the window wall as an architectural feature will retain its value or appreciate in value. Windows and architectural interest and natural light aren't really things that fall out of style get dated and need replacing the way that almost everything else in a kitchen will. And they are the kind of thing that sells houses.

And in the meantime, of course, you get to enjoy it.

Jillius - I did mention above that I did consult with a real estate professional...

While I think it makes sense to put money into my home, the money it would take to create that full back window wall is more than I feel makes sense to spend - almost as much as I paid for the house, thought that was, granted, 15 years ago.

This is a long thread with lots of comments. It is easy and understandable to miss absorbing every part of every comment even though I actually took the time to read everything before I commented.

Oh, Jillius. So sorry that my comment came off as critical! No, I would not expect everyone to read the entire thread, much less remember it all!

To get a sense of the overall dimensions of my house (12' x 25') here's a photo looking through the front window. You can see the back door in the right, center of the photo. The cat's back body is blocking the view of the back window. The front door is 3' to the right of the window, & lines up with the back door - against the right wall. The brick on the left is the left wall of the house:

What a stunning picture! Your home looks lovely, nice to see the whole picture and cat... your pro gardening talents inspire...

I am curious to hear what your GC says on all this...do keep us posted k?

I wish I understood the difference in a lintel verses a wood header too. I guess I thought they basically accomplished the same thing, except a lintel is used with brick homes???

So before, when I suggested lowering the window and adding the transom, I truly was thinking this would be no big deal or $$$ since you already had the header/lintel existing and you were not widening the window. I figured it was not going to be messing with the support structure to cut the bottom window sill a little bit lower. I realize my mistake is that I am thinking apples and you have oranges. :-( sorry

I really was not trying to spend too much of your money! I could do some serious damage though....just give me the green light. LOL!

When you said the big slider would cost about what you paid for the entire house 15 years ago, I though there must be a better solution. That's crazy. I don't mean completely lose your vision, but find a good compromise. I think you have done that very well. Even if you only end up moving the door over and have to keep the window as is, it will still be great.

I think I would go ahead and splurge for a new clear glass door though, without the grids. The grids make it busy, since it looks like you have some kind of iron security door on the outside as well.

I hope it will all work out Carrie. Gorgeous window basket and Kitty!

Rebunky - will do. Contractor is sending someone out tomorrow to take measurements. He did tell me that he sent my sketch (the one above) to the builder, and that the builder confirmed that it could mean significant savings. Of course, I have no idea what "significant" will mean.

No, I understand what you're saying about the transom, and that could work. I'm not sure that I'd do it only because, well, I think if I try to make the window & door match too much, it might end up looking stranger - like, trying to make two things that are clearly not the same look the same, but I'm not sure. The other though I had was just leaving the existing window, and cutting out the bottom to put a second, stationary window right below the existing double hung. The stationary window will be bigger than the transom above the door, but maybe it could actually be a point of interest, if not symmetry.

I wasn't clear, earlier - it's not that the slider would cost what I paid for the house, the entire project would. If I went for the big slider, transom, and all bells & whistles (under cabinet lighting, etc) the project would cost close to what I paid for the house. House is worth a lot more, now, but still...

My compromise sketch is really growing on me. I find sliding doors to kind of be a pain in the butt, for one. Maybe still talking myself into it, but, if so, that's pretty good, eh? If only I could talk myself into preferring cheap wine, cheese & chocolate...

I agree with you about the grids - time for them to go! I bought this door at Lowe's some 5 years ago for $200, it was the only glass door they had in stock at the time, so I got it. I may get rid of the security gate, too. Maybe remove the bars on the back window, too. I hadn't thought about that, whether it makes sense to do so in terms of security. Hmmm. That's a questions...

In the context of reemerging neighborhoods, you can't really say "well I only paid $___ for the house". I know someone who paid $5000 for a house. I know someone whose father paid $800 for a house. One of these couldn't be touched for 100x that now, the other maybe for 600x that. Plus in a less expensive house the "ratios" are all out of whack. Just because a house is $40K, does not mean you can get away with putting an $8000 kitchen in it.

Palimpsest - yeah, I realize that. Just adding it for context & information, not as an argument for why it shouldn't be done.

Palimpsest - just reading over some of this & noticed you saying this a while back: "Moving the door a bit is not something that a lot of people would
notice.--you wouldn't be getting a lot of bang for your buck--many
people are not very spatial. You will potentially improve the layout,
but you could improve the layout by shortening the window and running
counter under it, too." Either I missed it entirely, or maybe you added it later.

Adding counter under the window would mean changing the overall layout - there's a pantry cabinet just to the left that would be impacted if I added a corner there - and one of the things I like about this galley kitchen layout is that there's no corners to contend with. Yeah, moving the door was really about function, not about visuals.

I like your layout better from a functional and visual standpoint, I was just pointing out that from a purely functional standpoint there would be ways to get more counterspace and function (with a corner, however) without moving anything. I think a lot of people would do it without moving anything because moving exterior doors and windows is something they don't want to consider.

Thanks, palimpsest. When you say "without moving anything" do you mean not moving exterior windows & doors but redesigning the layout of the kitchen beyond just that counter under the window? The current location of the door would impact the proposed location of the range and an 18" counter/cabinet.