Here's the layout from above

I think from what I've read on here, it's ok to do. Both are insulated. OTOH, I'm sure someone else will pop in soon to verify it.

Are your fridge-dw-sink-range lined up there on one wall?

Yes, that's the order of things, benjesbride.

My dishwasher will be right next to my fridge, separated by a panel. I sure hope that's "cool".

Sorry, couldn't resist...

My DW is next to my fridge. Has been for 20 years and I am leaving it that way even tho I am remodeling. I have never had a single issue with either appliance.

No, t's no reason other that it is a bad layout. It needs to go across the aisle. Post an actual meaasured layout. There has to be other options than the no real working room option that you've chosen. Such as rotate the island and attach the banqette to it. Can't tell much else without a measured drawing and lbeling of doors and windows.

If you're unable to put, well, any of that on another wall or the island, it's okay, but are you sure exhausted other options? It's workable like that if you have no other options but you seem to have more space than you're using. If I had to put all that one one wall, I'd be looking at a smaller sink and range.

And yeah, dishwasher by the fridge is perfectly fine.

Ours is EXACTLY like that -- 13' of refrigerator-dw-6" cabinet-sink-trash-cooktop & under-counter oven - pullout for condiments. It's not the perfect layout but we had no choice (100 year old concrete building) and it works perfectly well and is quite efficient.

My dishwasher is next to the refrigerator. It was that way in our old house too. Not a good or a bad thing.

I agree that a DW next to a fridge is fine as general concept. Nicer to have a bit more space between DW and fridge just so the fridge door doesn't hit the dishwasher when both are open, but again, not a bit deal if that is the best situation for your kitchen.

However, I also agree that your specific kitchen plan could be GREATLY improved. Everything buehl said is spot on. Post a floor plan of your kitchen with measurements, post a floor plan of the whole floor the kitchen is on (important for context/traffic flow consideration), and post your spatial limitations and desires. We can help A LOT.

Where's the doorway and/or doors in your kitchen? I'd put the fridge along the side where you have cabinets (register). What is opposite of the eating area, other side of fireplace and cabinet wall corner?

Hi, Everyone

Thank you so much for your comments and concern. I guess after 20 years of crappy NYC kitchens, I just have low expectations. We currently have 3 inches of counter on one side of our stove, and a whopping 9 on the other, so to be honest, this layout already seems like heaven!

The corner next to the fireplace has some weirdness going on because of how the hearth sticks out. I think a refrigerator on that wall would stick out too far, even a counter depth one, as the designer only put 18" cabinets agains that wall to begin with. We could only put a 10" deep cabinets next to the fireplace and have things line up.

I agree a smaller stove would be ok, but the 36" is already a compromise on hubby's part. He was sad to learn he could not have a 48" stove with double ovens. I'd be fine with a smaller sink. We cook a lot and shop pretty much every day on the way home from work, so I don't need a huge fridge.

There are three doors into the kitchen, from two hallways and from the sunroom, which also seems to complicate the potential flow through the kitchen.

Open to any and all suggestions, truly!

Can you run plumbing to the island? It looks like it could be deeper and house...something. Sink and DW maybe? Refrigerator and freezer drawers? (I can blow through anyone's budget!) It's also not spaced symmetrically left-right. Any reason? Is the skinnier aisle wide enough? If so, I'd make them both skinny. If it's tight, I'd slide it over so that the narrower aisle was by the windows. Or is that lower right window actually a door?

Do you need island seating AND a banquette? Do you also have a dining room? Without knowing the dimensions, it's all guessing, but would hubby go for a 30" cooktop and double wall ovens? Kill the banquette and island, put a little baking zone next to the fireplace with wall ovens and another small section of counter, cabs, and stick a plain old table (or island if you can) in the middle, longitudinally. It doesn't give you much more counter space, just more ovens. That's probably goofy. Do post dimensions.

How big is the sunroom? Would the dining room table fit in there? Your current dining is kind of far from the kitchen, and I'm guessing that is why you are trying to fit so much seating in the kitchen. If the sunroom could fit a table, you could have the seating space in the kitchen back.

The sunroom isn't really insulated, and there isn't really budget to do so at this point, so we'll probably wind up using it only about half the year. We don't go out much, but we do entertain a lot, so it felt like having a couple places to sit in the kitchen while we cook would be a good idea. We want to eventually put a bar upstairs (in the living room with the crazy lime green fireplace tiles) but until we are able to, people are going to have to get drinks in the kitchen, so it seems like it will be a natural gathering spot. The dining room is dark and not particularly inviting, to be honest. And my gut feeling is that one of my elderly parents will be using it as a bedroom soon enough anyway.

Would your DW and (maybe a smaller) sink fit in the area marked Register with shallow cabs around them? If you can do that I'd make the island shorter (maybe the 3rd seat can be on the sunroom side), add a prep sink either next to fridge or on the island. Maybe your DH can have the 48" range he wanted.

When budget permits I'd consider moving the sun room door to where you now have a window.

Grethen, A lightbulb went on in my head when you mentioned the lime green fp tiles. (Lightbulb was lime green too) I saw your thread in the decorating forum and just wanted to say your place is drop dead gorgeous!!!

A few questions:

Is that banquette built in already? Are you open to moving it?

How low are those two windows on the sunroom wall?

Are you open to moving the doorway into the sunroom?

On the entry side. Is that two doorways (divided by a post under the waste pipe)? Were you closing up the top doorway where I see the countertop extends across it? Or is that a pony wall?

Would you mind posting actual photos of the existing kitchen? Showing the different views toward each wall?

Potential? Ohhh my goodness, yes!

ah, those darn titles. hubby and i have spent more time debating what to do about them then we spent deciding to buy the house. oy! but thank you for your kind words about the place, sometimes i feel so overwhelmed with everything, it's hard to remember that should all be fun!

Is that banquette built in already? Are you open to moving it? - banquette is not built yet. this was another of my husband's requests, as long as he has a place to read the paper that is not a barstool, i think he would be open to change.

How low are those two windows on the sunroom wall? the windows are very low, maybe 20" off the ground?

Are you open to moving the doorway into the sunroom? we really don't have the budget for this right now. if there's a way to set things up so that it would make sense to do that in the future, i'm all for it.

On the entry side. Is that two doorways (divided by a post under the waste pipe)? Were you closing up the top doorway where I see the countertop extends across it? Or is that a pony wall? The two doorways are separated by a real floor to ceiling wall, i'm not sure what that line on the drawing is.

Would you mind posting actual photos of the existing kitchen? Showing the different views toward each wall? Will take some tonight.

I frequently have my dishwasher open at the same time I have my fridge open. Every night, in fact.

Because I'm clearing the table, which involves putting away leftovers and condiments, and also loading up the dishwasher as we go.

I like having them on opposite walls, so I someone can stand between them.

Here's a suggestion:

1) I moved your bathroom. Where it is currently, it severely cuts your kitchen off from the rest of the floor. With it moved, the kitchen, dining, and seating area at the end all flow nicely into each other. It'll be a great entertaining space. You also end up with space for a much larger dining room table directly off the kitchen, which is where your husband can sit and read the paper. Also, with direct sight lines from one end of the house to the other, the light from the windows on opposite ends will also go a lot further. Should be much brighter.

I gather from your comments that budget is a concern, but the bathroom move isn't something that has to happen immediately with the kitchen remodel. The bathroom move could easily happen down the line if you are careful to leave room for the bathroom and maybe rough-in the plumbing and electrical for it while you're doing the kitchen.

2) I eliminated the washer/dryer on this floor. It doesn't fit well on this floor, and it is vastly better to have it on the floor with the bedrooms anyway. I'd suggest you post a floor plan of thed floor with all the bedrooms to get suggestions about where the laundry could go. Again, that is something that can be done down the line.

3. I moved your sunroom door. This allows for a much better kitchen layout and would definitely be something you'd have to find the budget for now when you do the kitchen remodel. However, I strongly suspect that moving the sunroom door is not as expensive as you think it is, so for sure you should get a quote before you rule it out as too expensive right now.

The reason I think it is relatively affordable is because you'd basically be swapping the existing door with an existing window that appear to already be the same width and height. If you can reuse the window and door you have, the materials are free. And nearly all the framing in the wall around the window and door would remain exactly as it is, which means less work and less possibility of surprises.

What that change buys you is:

a. Way more counter space in actually useful locations. A long counter between a sink and range is the most convenient prep place in the kitchen, and you now have three different places in the kitchen that are long counters with access to both a sink and the range.

b. A big pantry. And it's in the form of shallow, floor-to-ceiling cabinets, which is my favorite kind of pantry. Easy to see and reach everything in the pantry, nothing gets lost in the back, and you don't have to figure out or pay for expensive pull-outs to make use of the storage space.

c. A second sink.

So all that is an improvement on your current plan. Oddly enough, the dishwasher still ended up next to the fridge. I would suggest getting a single-door fridge (rather than a french door) so the fridge door won't whack the dishwasher door when both are open.

busy day at work today, but I wanted to drop in some photos of the room. thanks again for all your suggestions, i will sit my husband down tonight to review. I do like the idea of moving the door to the sun room, though I think we would have to move the door from the sunroom to the garden as well, otherwise you will have to cut a diagonal line through the room to get outside, which would be awkward.

We are scraping the couch cushions at this point to fund the renovation. Part of me almost feels like i should just figure out a way to install a dishwasher and get a cheap big table from IKEA and suck up the kitchen for a while until we can afford to do it right. Could you live with this for two years? It honestly wouldn't be the worst kitchen i'd have had to cook in. Only half the cupboard doors are about to fall off the hinges.

My friend, who can afford anything she wants, lived with the original 1920s kitchen in her Meditterean style home for nearly 5 years before she redid it to her exact specifications -- it took her that long to "get it right" and it was soooo right when she was done. My point is, if she can, you can!

I would add the dishwasher and the IKEA island and wait to renovate. Looking at these pictures, what this room is really crying out for is more natural light. In particular, I would want either to move this whole kitchen into the sunroom or to get MUCH bigger windows overlooking the sunroom, and I would want to move the bathroom so light from the front and back of the house can shine all the way into the middle. Maybe a skylight over the stairs as well to get some light into the middle of the floor.

I would wait till I could afford to do that. You never want to start a remodel, particularly of an old house, without a fair amount of contingency money.

Can you add a hood too for now? We have been living through our renovation using mini fridge, a microwave, a hot plate, and a glass-topped dresser from ikea as a counter and dish storage. Of everything, I most miss having a hood. Every time I use the hot plate, the whole room smells like old food and oil, and smoke gets everywhere.

But honestly wouldn't be a terrible layout if you put the dishwasher to the right of the sink, a hopd above the stove, and add a freestanding island. I could live with that.

The other things I'd consider changing - inexpensively - (and selling later on Craigslist) are first, the refrigerator -- I'd get another small cheap one, but with the door hinges opening toward the kitchen. I think the current one would actually drive me crazy LOL, and second, I would get someone in to put new hinges on the cabinet doors - cheap ones, just so the doors actually work.

I think you've been given a lot of good suggestions but if money is so tight right now that you're digging in the couch, it would make sense to wait a couple of years until you can afford to do it right. It doesn't make sense to spend good money on something that doesn't resolve all your concerns with the space. There are many ways to do a budget remodel that looks nice and would make you happy to look at it but if you aren't resolving the function, work flow, and storage concerns, it's still not money well spent, imho.

If it were me, I'd save for a bit and, in the meantime, research ways to get the kitchen you want and need the frugal way. For example, if your cabinet boxes are in good shape, you could do something similar to what we're doing. As we're are inherently pretty frugal ourselves, we are reusing our cabinet boxes but moving them around to where we want them. The new cabinets we need are being purchased from Habitat Re-Stores. We've been fairly picky when choosing them by searching for quality built cabinets in excellent condition. We'll be purchasing new door/drawer fronts for them so they all match and then painting them ourselves. This is saving us about $4000 over the Ikea cabinets we were originally considering.

if you keep working at this time to get a good plan finalized, you will know what you need for you plan and could start watching for sales and, if you have someplace to store items until you're ready to do the work, you could stock up on the things you need when you find great prices so you have most items stockpiled when you're ready to start.

Let's say you get to the point where you have the money for everything except counters and backsplash, you could get started and just use plywood counters for another year or so until you've saved up for the counters and backsplash you want. It really doesn't need to be done all at once.

Hope this is helpful.

Edited to add: SJhockeyfan makes a good point about the fridge. Many fridge doors can be switched so the door swings the other way. Check to see if yours is one of them.

Oh, when I saw those green tiles I felt so jealous that we don't have such beautiful, original details to work with. Your home is going to be spectacular.

I played around with your plan based on your mention of entertaining in the upstairs living room and also the idea that elderly parents might be moving into the area where the existing dining room is.

The kitchen moves to where the existing bath is. Placing it closer to the dining room as well as the stairs up to the living room. The existing kitchen becomes a flex room (family room, guest room, office) and a full, accessible bath that is functional for aging guests. The flex room has both pocket doors from the kitchen and a door from the end of the hall; it could be open to the kitchen, but you don't have to walk through the kitchen to get there and it can be totally closed off.

I don't know what dimensions you're dealing with, so these spaces might be way too small in reality. Just thought I'd toss the idea in the ring...

Edited for clarity--I had too many interruptions and submitted too soon :-)

Thinking about preserving the existing door to the sunroom...

Yeah I'd live with that (and a new fridge and an IKEA island and MAYBE even a dishwasher--IKEA "unfitted" kitchen cabinets are pretty nice actually). A space like that takes time to figure out, and probably a little extra money to do it right.

Thanks for posting pictures of your fabulous apt. Now that I'm seeing everything, I agree, definitely wait. I think redoing the whole floor is the way to go. I cannot figure how else to make it function. I know it seem like forever, but It really will go faster then you think, trust me!

Maybe just repaint the cabinets a crisp bright white and tighten those hinges. Don't worry about doing a perfect paint job, since you will be gutting it later. But new paint will at least make them feel sorta "clean" and "newer". Plus it will lighten up the space.

In fact, maybe give all the walls a fresh coat of the white paint. The space does seem pretty dark to me. Then do nice bright pops of color. Maybe paint the island and that cute hutch your favorite! Perhaps lime green? Haha just kiddin!

I think what I'm saying is...make it look intentionally funky and eclectic. Use pieces you already have. Another idea is a couple of second hand dressers with glass or marble tops for an island or extra counter space under the window. Move stuff around until it flows and works for you.

Then you can obsess on GW for kitchen ideas and plan your dream!

If you want to stick with your originally posted layout, I'd seriously consider moving your sink and dishwasher to the island. It would open up lots of working space, IMHO.

Hi, Everyone....just checking in with a quick update. We've spent a lot of time wandering the house and envisioning our lives there. We've come to a couple conclusions.

1) Neither of us really likes the dining room. It's dark, got low ceilings and is in the front of the house so there is a decent amount of foot traffic outside. It's just not an inviting space. It's got ugly fireplace tile, too, but I guess that's a topic for another thread. We can paint it and use it as a guest room and be happy. The bathroom between this room and kitchen has a wide walk in shower, so if one of my parents winds up with us, we'll be in a good position. Can't tell you home many times we called the fire dept to help us get grandma out of the tub over the years.

2) Neither of us has any idea what we would do in the sunroom.

3) Having lived with crappy kitchens for years, we were giving up too easily. Better than what we have now is great, but we decided we could aim higher and shuffle the budget around get something we love that will won't have any regrets about. So out went the new flooring in the house and some other stuff...

4) We're meeting with our architect tonight to discuss our options for expanding the kitchen into sunroom. YAY. Sensibly placed appliances. Big dining room table. Large windows so we can see the kids in the yard. Screen door slamming as they track mud

Anyway, this has been a weird process, and hubby and I have really struggled to communicate our ideas and priorities. Thank you for all your generous and thoughtful suggestions, they definitely helped frame our conversations. I'd love to have you over for a glass of rose this summer to say thanks!