Perhaps it doesn't seem possible, but sitting down with your son when he asks for money and helping him plan a budget might help him (and her) to see how they can manage.

There is an old saying, "a wife can throw out more with a teaspoon than a husband can bring in with a shovel." This may not be the case with them, but planning and economizing could be helpful. Learning to be independent is a skill that can be developed and it will produce self confidence,

Grown children working and living on their own should not be asking mom and dad to pay a light bill! I would have been ashamed and mortified to ask my parents to help me with monthly bills, but I knew I could count on them if something catastrophic were to happen like losing a job, huge hospital bills, etc.

Is it that your son doesn't make enough, or are they mismanaging their $? It's simply not right that you only hear from them when they need money. Yes, it was unwise of them to have a 4th child when they are struggling financially, but unless your DIL has an advanced degree, it probably wouldn't pay her to work as full time daycare for the two year old might be more than her pay check. But she should be planning now to return to work when the youngest is in school and they only have to spend for an after school program.

I don't have grandkids yet, but my relationship with my DIL is similar. She and DS live 15 min away, but we usually only see her on holidays, and usually for a limited amount of time before they are off to spend the rest of the time with her family. We have invited them for dinner other times and DS has shown up alone...she's not feeling well, she had to babysit her nephew, etc. I don't expect things will change when they have kids and I dont anticipate having a close relationship with their future kids. We'll probably only see them on holidays as well or when they can't find anyone else to babysit. It's all about her and her family. I am polite to her when I see her, try to make her feel welcome, get her nice gifts for her bday and Christmas, etc....but we will never be close and I have accepted it.

Dealing with money can be difficult, and I think it is perfectly OK to discuss finances as long as you are clear that you are offering ideas not cash.

It sounds like your son and DIL need to learn how to live within their means and be grateful that you do help them when they do get in a pinch.

Because my folks gave us money whenever we thought we needed it, and later found out this was not a growing up thing to do, we talked it over when our kids grew up and started asking us for money. We suggested very strong they would pay it back and they did. Some did better than others but they all did pay back. Much better relationships. There has been occasions we chose to buy either clothes for school, a field trip, vacations etc because we wanted to help out. My DH used to pay for meals when we went out, because HE wanted to! It was his way of thanking a relative for helping out because as we go older and DH got sicker, he (relative) had to do more. With DH gone I try to do more myself or get it done professionally, but I do talk it over with my relative to help me make the right decision.

we have 9 grands and love them all very much...only three are far enough away we can't see them more than holidays....my dh was a very active father (coaching soccer and baseball) and we have enjoyed watching the kids/grands play sports over the years (our oldest will be 16, and the youngest is 3) it's sad your dh hadn't socialized at an earlier age with your children...perhaps if you attended some activities they're involved in at least they'll know you care...

My children do not have active grandparents in their lives. You know what, it hurts. I do not need a dime from my parents or my husband's parents.

My Inlaws are so set their ways. They can only manage a visit once a year . They have no social life. They could move to be closer. But the thought of moving sends my FIL into full panic mode.

My parents are selfish with their time. What time they have goes to my Dads daughter and my younger sister. I am one of five children. My mother recently scheduled a cruise during the same time as my son's first communion. I just stamp my feelings down. It hurts to know my children are not important to my mother.

I am a stay at home mom. I work my tail off to be there for my children. My children will ways know I am there for them. If I have schedule conflicts while my husband travels, I call a sitter we have moved 8 times and we do it together no help from anyone.

I have so much bitterness towards my parents becAuse they do not care. My mother's sisters are shocked at her lack of involvement. I have great and well behaved children. They have never been in trouble at school.

I guess what I am saying...get involved with your grandchildren. If your DIL is a good mother, it hurts her to know you don't want to spend time with her children.

Reading ourgeorgiahouse post and thinking of my own mother I offer another perspective as well for you to consider. It may not be pertinent or relevant. It sounds like you don't want to be involved because of past experiences but if you aren't at least a presence (I don't mean financially but just emotionally) what will happen when you and DH are older and need assistance of any sort. Will the help be there from your son?

My parents moved out of town 30 years ago when the grandchildren started to arrive and wanted little to do with them or us. My mom moved back into town last fall, she is now 86, because she needs help. We are all basically holding our noses and helping her out but it isn't out of love but rather duty. Don't get to that point.

I am a stay at home mom and always have been which is something that my mom has seen fit to be critical of in the past. It's a decision that my husband and I made together. Daycare is so expensive regardless of the number of kids and I make a better SAHM than I do a working mom - for me and my kids and for my family. It's a personal decision that they have to make. It doesn't make her less of a person or lazy.

You state that your daughter-in-law is a decent mom and your son has a great work ethic and always has had that so I think you have something to work with in creating a relationship. Emergencies happen with kids and I wonder how difficult it is for him to phone to ask for financial assistance.

I agree with trying to get rid of the financial entanglements but do consider an emotional connection with your grandchildren. It may not work but please try to consider it.

I doubt the DIL is hurt that Loving is not involved with the grands. She has totally alienated Loving....she's only been to her house twice in 11 years and does not accompany her DH and kids for holiday dinners....yet she clearly has no qualms accepting $ and gifts from people she does not want to be around. Also, Loving stated that the grands see her mother frequently....if they can make time for one set of grandparents why not the other?

The son and DIL don't seem to respect Loving or appreciate what she has given them. She has just become an ATM doling out cash on demand. There comes a time when you have to say enough is enough when the only time you hear from your kids is when they want something.

My concern would be how much the son and DIL are wanting financial help when his mother and father should be putting money aside for their retirement. Out of necessity to build and have sufficient funds for the rest of their lives, Loving may have to say no to all future financial help. With a son who is willing to work two jobs, I would expect that they could make do financially. My concern is that the son and his wife probably have poor money management skills or lack of them and they will have a lifetime of trouble until they learn otherwise. Saying no helps to motivate them to develop some good budgeting.

I wish Dave Ramsey were still on the local radio. He was a very good financial adviser when people called in with problems. He has also written some self help books about how to dig out of debt and to budget for a secure life.

I have two little grandsons, and it does help that they are my daughter's children. I do feel that daughters understand the parenting that they had, and if it meets their standards as young parents, that they are comfortable using the grandparents to babysit. I have long felt that when the mother is a DIL, that feeling and closeness may not be there, which will affect any relationship that grandma can have with her children.

Good luck to you.

Another thing, it's also "despicable" to be talking trash about you on facebook! Did you tell your son that she said that? I bet he has no idea that his wife is talking trash about you! I know that if I were in your situation and every time I saw them they were hitting me up for money, I too would be keeping my distance because I wouldn't want to be put in that situation. I am someone that avoids conflict if at all possible.

Here's something else, I don't know if you said whether or not you have other children but giving money to one and not the other can be a real source of resentment among siblings. I know someone that is in this situation. She and her family have never asked her Mom for money because they make wise financial decisions in their life but there's another step daughter that doesn't make wise decisions so her Mom is always giving money to the step daughter. My friend feels like she's being punished for making the wise choices in her life while the screw up girl(she had FIVE children out of wedlock!) gets money handed to her all the time. Like she said to me "we need money too".

I'd rather have an absent grandparent for my kids than a buttinsky grandparent.

Who's the "buttinsky"?

No one in particular. I'm responding to the people who are saying they're hurt by absent grandparents. While of course the best scenario is to have grandparents involved, I'm just pointing out that IMO it could be worse, i.e.: an MIL or M constantly criticizing how you are raising your kids, telling you how to do so, commenting on every little thing….ie: buttinsky.

Yes that is worse!

'Tis!

It doesn't take brains or insight to become a parent - far too often it's the opposite, it can be the result of bad decision-making. That people unprepared and unequipped to have children finally find themselves cast in that role is common. Reality is reality, move on.

So what do you do? You should do your utmost to learn what's best for the kids and you devote yourself to doing so. The same is true of being a grandparent - like it or not, it's a responsibility if you care for them. If not, do what blfenton's parents did, leave town and ignore your family. To sit in a car to watch at a distance, and not join in, when encountering family members in a public place, takes my breath away. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?

Those of you with equally broken relationships shouldn't be offering advice or consoling others with the same problems. Yes, having a meddling relative at any level is unwelcome, but reread other comments - a relationship is mutual, it takes effort, and maintaining successful ones means doing what's necessary to accomplish that. Those who want to sit back and blame others when your own actions may be part of the problem just don't get it.

Whether the child is from a marriage involving your son, your daughter, your step-whatever, your neighbor, shouldn't be an issue. If you can develop a positive relationship with a stranger (and we all can), you can develop one with someone you have a tie to. Excuses are easy to come up with.

Focus on what's best for the kids and otherwise suck it up and keep your mouth shut about things you don't like. That works, believe me.

Look what came out today! I haven't read it yet, but I hope it sheds some light.

when-your-kid-likes-one-set-of-grandparents-better from Yahoo

Hello! Please don't think that I have disappeared into thin air. I know all of you have taken time to respond to me so I apologize for being MIA. Yesterday I came home from work not feeling well and today even worse. A cold with a sore throat. NOt too bad, just worn out.
Thanks for the link Rob333 and I will read it and be back when I'm feeling more up to par.
Well, just one thing first. I do not think my DIL meant for me to see the facebook posting. There has never been a cross word between us and it was not my intention to paint her as a mean person. She is not and I was surprised to have seen her post something like that. Oh well. I'll surely figure it out. I've got a few ideas about getting my grandkids to help me with some things around here. If that wouldn't be perceived as self-serving.

"I'd be careful about talking to son about finances;
it's his responsibility, & my fear would be that talking about it might be construed as agreeing that you bear or will accept some of the responsibility."

I completely agree. If you have any extra money after paying YOUR expenses, he could well rationalize that it is available for THEIRS. You wouldn't be able justify your need for savings/retirement, etc. and no amount of "explaining" would matter. Your finances are none of their business at this point.

Sometimes people forget that everyone want's to be loved. My Dad used to say "who you love you give your time to" It all comes down to the elders setting the example. Perhaps if you start being involved, they will follow suit. It may require a conversation to let them know that your feelings. Keeping up relationships takes work and effort but the rewards are a life with family who shows their love back and, hopefully, friends to share. I wish you the best in resolving this situation and may you have all good results .

I absolutely agree regarding not discussing finances in any way with your son. He will resent you trying to "butt" into his business by talking about setting up a budget, IMO. I do disagree with you when you say your daughter-in-law is not mean. By her not coming to your house, not bringing the kids to see you, causing her family to be unavailable to you, and writing on such a public media place as Facebook, again IMO, was absolutely intentional, and all of these actions are being mean. You certainly not have tried very much either, it seems. And where is your husband in all of this; does he visit the grandchildren and your son? Does he make any attempts to be available?

You don't have to discuss YOUR finances when you discuss finances with kids, but some open ended conversations opening the door might allow them to ask questions about the subject in general. Many kids don't have a clue about finances (many adults don't have a clue, either, perhaps their parents wouldn't talk to them about the subject).

This has gone so much deeper than I had intended it to. Some of you asked what I was expecting to happen or wanted to happen. Right now the biggest thing for me is to have some peace of mind. The constant worry is literally making me ill. I'm always on the verge of tears or feeling depressed when I think of my son's family. It's such a sad situation in every respect. Their lives are so chaotic and I believe it is all fueled by financial woes. I have believed this for years, which is why I can't understand why my DIL does not get a job. I understand those of you that are, or were, SAHM's, are quick to defend. But usually when husbands and wives make that decision it is because they can afford to do that, even if they have to make sacrifices.
SNidelyWhiplash asked how it could be that my DIL had only been in my house twice in eleven years....when they first got married my mom and dad were still hosting holiday and birthday get-togethers. She probably attended a few of those in the beginning but soon just stopped coming. Either she was home cooking for their day, she didn't feel well, and sometimes my son said she was shy. I do think she was shy. It really didn't bother me since I accepted his word and respected her feelings. We were a big crew back then. And both times that she was here at my house were in the early years. Many many many times my son would stop by for something and she would sit in the car, the kids would get out and play, and I would always go out and talk to her and the kids. As the years rolled by, if the kids came in and it was hot outside, I wouldn't always go out. She was welcomed to come in. But all these years I have accepted her without hard feelings. If I have ever said anything in the past that could have hurt her feelings, to make her avoid our whole family, I would not know what it could be. I am not one to say anything to hurt anyone.

Where is my husband in all this, some of you asked? He isn't fully aware of the toll this is taken on me. Either he is less understanding (or makes less excuses) for them than I do. It wasn't long ago that he was raising a fuss because he has a 2 y/o granddaughter that has never been to this house. Well, she has but he wasn't home at that time. He has been hurt by all this too. And he has given quite a bit of himself as well. A couple of years ago he built the oldest granddaughter a playhouse. Spent the whole weekend on it. Last year when they moved, he asked my son if he was going to be able to move it or if he would have to take it apart. My son told him he hoped he wouldn't have to take it apart. Well, not long after they moved, we stopped by.....to give them a toilet plunger they were needing....and no playhouse. My husband was very upset and let my son know it. My husband used to go once a week to take off their trash because my son left for work before the recycle centers were open. He did it for about a year but they kept putting trash outside and neighborhood dogs would tear it up and he would end up having to clean it up. We gave them a large can with a locking lid. They would fill it up, then sit whatever bags wouldn't fit outside and those would get torn up. He just quit doing it.
So you see that this is so much deeper than just relationship problems. I do believe that it is all stress related caused by financial problems. I just don't think they have the energy to the right things in life because they are so stressed out. And those are the reasons that I have continued to give the money and pay their bills, hoping that soon they would figure it out and get it under control.
I don't think it would be difficult connecting with my grandkids, but I think it would be unhealthy for me if my son and his wife can't get their lives under control. I feel like I keep trying and trying and trying to help them and it's getting me no where except in bad health.

And, No, I did not tell my son about the facebook posting. They have enough troubles that telling him would serve no purpose. I do not want to be the cause of any arguments between them.

Lovingspring, I suspect the chaos is not caused by financial stress. It sounds to me as though the chaos and the financial problems have the same root cause. If both are symptoms of the same underlying problem, it will do no good to treat one of the symptoms. I think you have discovered that your continuing efforts to help them financially haven't had any permanent benefit.

Perhaps someone else can do a better job of naming and describing the root cause. All I can say is that I've known people with a total lack of money sense, who constantly surround themselves with chaos. They tend to blame others for the binds they get into, but their problems are of their own making.

It must be painful to watch your own child in that situation, and I wish I could offer you a solution. By all means stop funding (enabling) them, and try to provide a stable influence for your grandchildren. Living in chaos can't be easy for them. They love their parents, but kids need some sort of structure whether they're aware of it or not.

maybe using facebook and leaving encouraging remarks might be a simple way of communicating without face to face contact? I usually hit "like" on most pictures or add an encouraging remark if about one of the grands...

I would be curious to hear her side of the story. I keep feeling like there's a lot of miscommunication happening and it's causing some friction and resentment. It sounds like you really are trying, but maybe she thinks she really is trying too and you're just on different pages.

That being said, you can't change someone who doesn't want to change. I think cutting them off financially is best. It's a little bit of tough love, and they might lose electric for a day or two until they sort it out but hopefully it will wake them up a bit. I'm sorry the kids are in the middle. Are they using any of the programs set up to help situations like this? WIC for some food at least?

loving ...

Seems that your DS and DIL have gotten themselves into a financial pickle which they expect you to help them solve.

Unfortunately, even with your help, they will, likely, not be able to improve their position for some time (until all of the kids are in school).

So you have a choice to make. Do you help them until that point ... or do you allow them to struggle, which they will.

The grand-kids will be fine ... kids are quite resilient. But your DS needs to get things under control as his oldest will be approaching college age in 7 years.

Ultimately, we can only do what we can do. I've counseled my DW to decide upfront WHAT she is comfortable doing for the grown kids and grandchildren and to stick to that. The struggling parents need to figure out the rest.

Your situation is difficult. It seems that you want/need to work out a relationship with your DS/DIL that doesn't hinge upon you supporting them financially. Unfortunately, such a thing will take quite a bit of time.

In the meantime, take advantage of opportunities to be involved in your grandchildren's lives. Send them cards at holidays and birthdays, friend them on Facebook, and show up their special functions. You decide what type of grandparent you wish to be, ... and then BE that grandparent.

Sylvia, how is it not her circus? It's her son.

I agree with Sylvia! And I'm going to second "why can't the wife take out the trash"? Is she too good to? Maybe too lazy to is more like it! It's funny, I'm a 52 year old woman and do ALL the house work and outdoor work here at MY HOUSE! I mow with a push mower, use a weed eater, plant shrubs, put down mulch, I take out the trash, take out the recycle, wash the cars, paint the house, and every other freakin' thing that needs to be done. So unless this woman has some health issues you didn't mention, she needs to get off her *** and do things for herself and quit expecting everyone else to do the things she needs to do.

I am still hung up on that facebook comment. I believe she said it knowing you would see it, why else say it? People that talk trash and start drama on facebook are very immature! Facebook is something that everyone can see that is on her friends list or if she doesn't have it set up as private the whole world sees it. So every single person on her friends list knows that she's bad mouthing her in-laws. Also her kids are seeing her saying that their grandparents are "despicable". Real nice lady....NOT!

Too many children and too little income/good money management is her son's circus.

Her circus is an unloving son and daughter-in-law and distant grandchildren.

Agree w/Arkansas girl, re: the Facebook comment. It's not like coming here and venting about a lousy MIL, where no one knows your or her real identity. But on Facebook, where her friends are browsing, even her kids, they know to whom she is referring! If she were to go on the 6:00 local news and say the same thing, her intent would be clear. I don't think Facebook is any different than doing it on the 6:00 local news. It was tacky and morally repugnant for her to make that comment on her Facebook page.

It sounds like there is a lot of info. missing, a lot of mixed messages here, and a lot of miscommunication, resentment, anger, combined with a lot of the stressors that come with severe financial difficulties. Sounds combustible to me.

Everyone wants to help their kids, but your son is grown and you are right that you need to look out for yourself financially. If your DS has trouble paying his own bills, he certainly won't be able to help you if you run into financial difficulties. Sacrificing your own financial future doesn't help anyone. My parents made it very clear to my DS and me that they expected us to pay our own bills after we got a job. We knew that they would be willing to help in a catastrophic situation, but not on a regular basis just because we couldn't manage our budget. Being a SAHM is a great thing - if the family can afford it. Many families make sacrifices for a parent to be able to do this. To me that means cutting out extras in your budget. If a family can't afford their basic bills without help, then it's time to consider other choices. As some of the others have mentioned, taking the kids on an outing or going to their recitals/sports events if they have any would help you develop your relationship with them. If taking all of them is too much, take one or two of them at a time as a special time with their grandmother. Consider asking your DIL if you could join her when she takes them to the playground or other places. This would hopefully help your relationship with her and them.

The Facebook thing is why I think there are some big miscommunication issues happening. Most reasonable people don't explode on Facebook for no reason, and Loving hasn't indicated that her DIL is prone to drama. If someone has reached that point, there's something else going on. We have all had a situation where we were fed up and vented where we maybe shouldn't have. From Loving's perspective, she hasn't done anything wrong to warrant it, but I wonder what the DIL thinks.

She may not even be aware that her husband is asking for money. And since that's causing friction in the relationship, all she sees is the end result of a grandmother avoiding her grandkids. Have you spoken to her honestly about why you don't see them as much? I bet asking to spend some one-on-one time with them regularly would help the situation a lot.

I agree with Sylvia too. You are wrapping yourself up in your son's problems to the detriment of your own health. He's over 21. He made his own bed - let him lie in it. Let. It. Go. You will literally worry yourself to death.

I watched my mother do it - she worried and worried and worried. And then she died. She was 67.

So I have to FORCE myself not to do it. My son recently divorced and has a small child. So I worried and worried and worried. But I finally realized I was doing what my mother did, and I had to stop.

lovingspring - I have to agree with littlebug. You are worrying yourself to death over a situation you cannot control. I can understand why you continued to give them money, hoping it would help, but it isn't. If you take a big step back maybe you can soon recover your mental health and become a part of your g-kids lives.

To me it seems like the DIL's Facebook rant is less upsetting to you than the financial situation they are in. Step back, breathe, and then move forward.

I'm so sorry. It is very obvious you are torn up about it all. :(

Sometimes you have to let it all out and other times just walk away. You told your son you won't help and its probably very hard on him not having a wife that will work and earn money for the household. So, many do need two but there are alot of moms/wives that stay home but they are earning money somehow and learn to budget big time to make ends meet.

She will always put you down so she twists it to make you the bad guy not herself, you know the truth and so let it drop.

I know I went through hell and back with my mother and sil and no matter what I did or didn't do it wasn't good enough and the horrible comments all the time.
This fall I literally couldn't stand nasty sil and the horrible terrible things she was doing, lost everything and her going at me like something else. I broke down and emailed to my brother everything going on and guess what he said if you going to talk nasty then won't reply. So, you know who they will always believe and go with their wives and you won't win so drop it and let it be and don't answer those calls from your son then, he can leave messages and you don't have to say no money, won't give you any, can't help you and not going too as we are getting older and need to care for ourselves in old age and the world isn't getting any cheaper, its getting more expensive.

kathy

Lovespring, I mean no offense but your son needs to grow up and face reality. He is an adult, presumably in his 30's, with a SHM wife and 4 children. If his income cannot support them in a reasonable fashion, HE needs to switch careers, his wife needs to bring in some income or possibly look for state/federal aid. He needs to set a budget with his wife and stick to it. A financial consultant can help them with this. You and your DH cannot continue financing them. Your son needs to realize the stress this is also putting on YOU!

Talk to your DH, make him aware of all that is going on, and meet with your son and DIL. Lay the cards on the table. Your DS may not be happy about the conversation but you need to do it. Do not feel guilty about doing this, you are helping yourself and your adult child.

(Watch out --- I've seen "Hedim" drop some bot-ish posts that also contained a spammy dating app.)

Thanks, Sushi. Weird post on a thread that’s over four years old.

My first thought, dedtired.

Now I am wondering if the OP ever came to any resolution, or at least for herself came to terms with the situation.

Sounds like a bot from someone who is not a native-english speaker.

I think it is necessary to be adjusted on the correct positive thinking. Exemption from bad thought, how to stop worrying. You can even find special courses or books on psychology. For example, I like alexander j wilson reviews. It is positive thinking training, positive thinking tricks. It very much helped me.

Note that the word "relationship" seems to be a search item for spam about dating sites from foreign sources. Another keeps popping up in another forum about organizing in a thread about "relationships" to your things. Poof, spam. "Kerem" may also be bot-ish.