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Heating & Air Conditioning

New Construction HVAC

clarkandaddison

9 years ago

Thanks in advance for any advice.

We are preparing to build a new home in Southern Indiana that will be 2300 sq ft first floor, 500 sq ft bonus room, and 2300 sq ft unfinished (for now) basement. Just looking at the price differences (after tax credit), it doesn't look like the geothermal unit we are being quoted is much more and our builder said that is what he would go with.

Below are the two Carrier systems (both will be 3 zones):

Option 1--$17,550 tax incl

Carrier 24ACB748A003--17 SEER, 2 stage air conditioner 4 ton

59TP5A100E2120--97% efficient, 2 stage gas furnace (100K BTU)

CNPVP4821ALA--4 ton cooling coil

3 Honeywell 2 stage thermostats

Option 2--$26,850 tax incl (Net cost after rebates--$18,795)

Carrier GSO48SX--4 ton indoor split geothermal syste with hot water desuperheater

FE4ANF005L00--4 ton infinity series fan coil with 15 KW heater

Infinity series zoning control board

Infinity control with wi-fi for main level. Infinity smart sensors for bonus room & basement

I'm not exactly sure what our electric and gas rates are, but on our last bill we paid $82.08 for 450 kWh of electricity ($11 service charge and $5.38 tax included) and $87.39 for 99.85 terms of gas used ($33.27 distribution/service charge, 48.43 gas, and 5.69 tax).

So, is it worth the extra $1,245 to go with the geothermal, or am I better off with the gas?

Are either of these good systems or is there something else I should be looking into?

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Comments (3)

mike_home
9 years ago
Has the HVAC contractor done a load calculation? If not then this is the first step regardless of what type of system you install. You don't need a 100K BTU furnace, and the 4 ton AC is also questionable.

My initial reaction is there will be little to no savings using the gas furnace compared to the geothermal heat pump. There will be some savings for cooling.

Be aware you can't claim duct work and zoning for the federal tax credit. The IRS has ruled on this in the past. The builder needs to provide the numbers for the geothermal equipment and the installation costs.

I have read on other posts that Carrier no long makes their geothermal heat pumps. Others should comment if they have more information.
clarkandaddison
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks for the information. I don't know if a load calculation was done or not, I'll have to ask. All I received was a couple of pages worth of estimates from the HVAC contractor through our general contractor. I haven't actual met with the HVAC people.

I was curious about the tax credit too. Another contractor quoted us $25k for the geothermal, but only around $5k for the tax credit, so I was surprised to see this company had quoted $8k for the credit. I'll have to look into that as well.
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Include the basement in the load calculation now, and I'll bet you'll find it adds little to the sizing requirements (cooling wise at least). My basement has a few "taps" into the main trunk line with no real issues. I'm the first to admit this is not the best way to go. The bottom line is, the basement will almost always NEVER be quite as comfortable in the winter as you want it unless it is zoned off the main system or has its own system. I know that is the case for mine. You know it's a cool basement when you walk down the stairs. If you just add taps into the existing ductwork, make sure it doesn't starve the main home of its supply air. This may mean upsizing a bit, but it's likely already "upsized" a bit as most new construction installations are. What size system is going in as of now?
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What major city are you near? This will give us an idea of what the winter and summer outdoor design temperatures are for your location. Does the 5000 sq. feet include the basement? If it does what are the areas of the first and second floors? Basements require little for heating, and nothing for cooling if they are mostly below ground. Get a copy of the load calculation. New construction has no history for HVAC so it is very important that a load calculation with the proper software is done. You have above average insulation so I am skeptical you need 180K BTU of heating, and 8 tons of cooling. Adding more insulation is a good idea, but you may hit the point of diminishing returns. Do you know the gas and electric rates? The return on investment on more insulation may be a long time. It may make more financial sense to put the extra money to more efficient equipment.
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fsq4cw
9 years ago
Option 1

Carrier gas furnace &
Carrier AC – no Carrier T-stat, strange…

No mention of zoning as in
option 2

Option 2

Infinity WiFi T-stat &
Smart Sensors, no mention or price for zoning dampers & controls.

Split geothermal is a nice
option with or without a gas furnace. I do like the hybrid gas/geo option,
particularly if you’re installing gas anyway for other functions. Natural gas
furnace/geo option can also provide heating during power failures with
relatively small generator.

Instantaneous gas DHW fed by
desuperheater buffer tank can also provide relatively inexpensive hot water
production.

Hybrid systems offer the
greatest flexibility and protection from high-energy rates from single-source
energy.

Be sure to do all your homework – you’ll be glad you
did!

IMO

SR

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