And the App is???????????

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/azel.html

will give you the elevation and azimuth of the Sun for any location, date, and time. There are many online resources like this, but you have to know what a "degree" is, and how to measure it. I guess a point-and-shoot app would be handy if you are angularly challenged. I've seen Sun Surveyor Lite on iOS8. Kinda nifty.

Okay, I accept it... and to an extent, I celebrate it... I am a bit of a Luddite. I don't have one, and do not ever wish to own a smart phone.

Here's what confuses me...

What does this appy thing tell you about the sun and shade that standing in the garden won't? I've been in the garden in the fall, winter, spring, and summer. I know what trees shade each area of my garden. To me, if a person can't stand in the garden and get a half decent idea of where the sun will be in each season... well... a smart phone... lol... I'd better leave it there.

Perhaps it's useful for buying a piece of property where you haven't experienced the seasons?

I've used SkyView and even the free version is amazing. With the app you can determine exactly where shadows will fall at any date and time in the future. It includes a calendar where you can change the date to a future day and time. Originally used it to track stars and planets but soon realized it would be a great tool for determining the sun's exact position. It's a type of augmented reality since your phone screen will show what the camera lens sees as you move it around the sky, plus the images of stars are super-imposed on this. So you can see the sun's position as it relates to trees or buildings on your screen. It came in handy for me when moving to a new property to know where to place a veggie garden. And also I wanted to cut down some trees hoping to give more sunlight to the garden. I wanted to know which ones would actually be casting a shadow on the garden during the summer. Just another tool that some might find interesting.

rgreen...have to say I agree with you...most gardeners spend the majority of daylight outside and can easily observe where the shade is, and what is causing it. Sometimes I wonder if people spend so much time with their gadgets that they are losing basic skills. That said..okay..maybe for a buying situation...but again..simple observation?? I saw the house I am in at least 5 times before I made an offer..at all times of the day..different people like to have things "confirmed" via a gadget..guess no harm in that!

Donna just to be clear, the benefit of using the app is seeing the sun's position at different times of the year (not times of day) since the sun's height above horizon changes winter vs summer.

I hope people don't have to pay for an app that tells them the sun is lower in the sky in winter than in summer.

These are free apps, and I have to say that using them in this way for garden planning is pretty clever, especially if you are moving to a completely new site. But if you know where north is and if you've ever taken much time to look at and think about the path of the sun across the sky, I'd guess that they won't tell you much that you wouldn't already know.

Thanks dan. For whatever reason, dave's comment about the free version wasn't showing to me when I posted. I see it now.

I do remember the first time, quite a while before 'mobile' phones were smaller than a bread box, I stood outside and planned a garden. I think it was late winter, and I was trying to see how far into the lawn to begin digging. I had never gardened before, and all I knew was what I learned from those old PBS shows like the original Victory Garden. "As much sun as possible." As that first season passed, I remember learning that not only did the sun get 'higher' in the sky, but as June 21 approached, each day would gain about 3 mins. from the sun rising slightly more to the east, and setting slightly more to the west.

It wasn't too tough to use my imagination to know where the sun would be, but it can be tricky until you learn the surroundings of a new place.

I'm a bit 'sensitive' this week on these issues. At the supermarket I was reminded of the reliance on 'gadgets'.

When I was young, one of my first actual 'jobs' was at a small full-service gas station. Remember those? I was at the pumps taking money and giving change from my pocket. Everything had to be counted back, and the cash register was only used for the guys fixing cars, to empty your pockets, and at the end of the night to inventory and tally.

Since that time, I've slowly watched as people stopped 'counting back' change. It wasn't long before numbers weren't punched into cash registers at all, and fast food joints first put the names of the products into pre-coded buttons (so much for special orders that don't trip up all but the management,) now they just have an image. That 'first-job training' doesn't even require reading anymore, let alone math. Supermarkets are even worse... they just scan.

Well twice this week even the supermarket managers were stumped when someone mis-programmed the prices into the scanners. The cashier was completely ignorant because they had no clue how to figure the price on a piece of paper. They kept scanning the item over and over expecting a different result, and each time they were dumbfounded, and at a complete loss at what to do when the register was so confident of the set price lol. The manager came over and told me that I shouldn't complain, 'look, at this price you're saving $5 and change, and at the price the flier is saying, you would only be saving $3 and change.' They really could not mentally grasp that the reason the computer was saying that I was saving $5 was because they wanted me to pay $5 instead of the $3 dollars advertised on the buy one get one offer. All they knew was that the register told them to collect 2 more dollars from me on that item.

I lost all the little faith I had that humans could handle advancing technology. If we don't 'have to' do the math, before long, we 'can't' do the math.

So the day that our grandchildren haven't played outside long enough to know that the summer days are longer than winter, and can't use their minds to imagine where a shadow might fall without a piece of technology... perhaps that's the day that the human mind will never recover - for many that day has come and passed lol.

Doubt me? Then anyone under 50 break out your slide rule and show us how to figure trigonometric calculations without a calculator. Sure, it wasn't easy without study to do those calculations, but we live in a world that can't charge you less for a sandwich minus an item because there's no button on the register with that picture.

Is it better or worse? Who knows, I suppose this is a gardening forum, not philosophy lol.

Sorry to go on and on, it's just that I enjoy forums like this one precisely because all the old knowledge is fast disappearing. It's being replaced by generalizations and complete ignorance. We all know the joke... ask a child 'where does food come from?' Far too many answer... 'from the supermarket.' Here there are so many who appreciate and hold fast to sharing that 'passed-down' generational knowledge.

I better stop now or I'll miss my departed grandmother.

What was I talking about? Oh yeah... apping the track of the sun. Yeah... cool gadget lol.

Well said, rgreen. I'm certainly not a Luddite, and in fact I use computers a lot, but I like to be a little pragmatic about what they're really needed for. I am concerned that people are starting to rely on that little box in their hand for things that their brain is actually capable of doing, to the accuracy needed. I'm a little worried about hearing things like "Hey, if I use this app, I don't have to think!" That being said, it is wonderful that such apps are available, and using them might actually teach you something about the way the sun moves across the sky, and not just where the sun is at any particular date and time. With that in mind, I hope people use them productively.

rgreen...you are so right! It took me 25 minutes on the phone, one service rep and 2 managers to explain that I ordered six 2-packs of juice...simple math..12 bottles, only received 9 bottles..it was that lone bottle that threw them all off...they only had 2 packs in their computers..I think that I learned how to do simple math by age 8...but nowadays if it's not in their computer, then it's just not possible.

I was recently buying a car, and the financial officer was playing fast and loose with the interest rates..I did the math in my head and corrected him twice...he asked me how I did that, like it was some kind special skill!

As far as losing our skills, all we have to do is look at Venezuela. They bought their food from China and the Phillipines because it was cheaper than growing their own, and in just 40 years, they have completely lost the ability and knowledge to grow food. Now their economy has tanked, cost of food has risen astronomically, people are starving. All in a place with a beautiful climate to grow food, but they don't know how. We are not that far behind them.

Well, I have to admit I'm interested in this app cause we're thinking of moving, but the realtors get a bit confused when we head out to the yard and look into the sky and kinda twirl, looking at the trees and angles and such!

Rgreen, the worst was recently I went into the $.99 store and the clerk started screeching that there was no price tag (or whatever they're called now) and I said....."um, I do believe I'm at the $.99 store????? It didn't help! She had to do a price check! (probably for inventory purposes, but come onnnnnnn! Nancy

Wow. Realtors without a clue how the sun shines on a house and its property. Uh, yeah, it comes up, like, over there somewhere, and it goes down, uh, over there somewhere. I think it's up in the daytime, maybe?

All you need is an old fashioned watch...line the hour hand up with the sun...halfway point between the hour hand and 12 is south. If you have a digital watch...make an imaginary clock and do the same thing.The simplest things are getting lost to gadgets.

It's obvious that some commenters either don't, or don't wish to, understand what I was discussing. This was a discovery I made that helped me (and many more folks) in a specific situation. In the middle of winter, standing in the middle of my future garden, I was able to align the tops of certain trees with the sun's image on my screen as it would appear in June. Of course I could've made a pretty good guess, but I needed to know precisely where the shadows would be....it's a small, mostly shaded yard. I wanted to start right away preparing the ground for a spring planting!

Most people, and yes that includes many gardeners, have a difficult time visualizing the arc the sun makes in the sky and how it changes by season. And are very surprised to learn that the sun doesn't rise due east and set due west most of the year. The idea that the sun could rise in the north-east in summertime is a strange concept for many. Looking at the sun's position in one moment in time doesn't help. I think sometimes a non-traditional approach is needed. However tempting it is sometimes to be dismissive of new ideas.

I wasn't dismissing the idea, several of us said that it could have applications...just that we are losing skills.

Yes, as I said above in my comment, I can be a bit of a Luddite (not completely, but a bit,) and that - by definition - makes me dismissive of new ideas if they concern technology. The bit I see no real use for is the type that doesn't have practical value, or that replaces a mental, or physical exercise - for laziness.

If I go out side right now, the sun will be at a very low declination. It is not the lowest declination of the year, but it is the same approximate declination as Feb. Parts of my garden are indeed in shade right now. These are the same parts that will be in shade in Feb. (2 months before and after Dec. 21.) Where I live, I can't plant very much in Feb. and in fact, I can't plant very much now (perhaps some greens, turnips or favas,) but I can just look at the garden area and see the shade. I know that before today, Oct. 20, the sun will have been higher, and would have risen 1 1/2 min. East. Conversely with the setting sun.

Now the app in discussion may be fun to use, and a neat gadget, and as I said, for someone buying a new property who doesn't have time to wait and see where the sun will rise and set, it can be practical, but for someone who lives on their property, I say put the keyboard down and stand away from the devise lol. Go outside. My niece and nephew are at that young age where they should be outside learning about nature and getting used to bugs and dirt. Where are they? Inside on their devices.

Anyway, like I said...neat gadget with a narrow practicality, but nothing beats just going outside and looking. Sorry to be dismissive, but the problem of technology overtaking simple natural experience and basic knowledge is a also a real threat. So, some people may find this app extremely helpful, some won't.

Edit... Donna, I was the one being a little dismissive.