Thank you, Mikie!

Jane

jane-
That's a tough situation. There are two things going on. First, her machine sounds like a mess and it may be hard to fix everything remotely. Second, given her age, it's normal to have increasing confusion with technology and that probably will get worse. It's great you are trying to help her, but don't get an ulcer if you can't get this fixed. Even if you were there in person to help, her possible mental decline may prevent her from being able to continue to use the computer effectively. I hope I am wrong, but be prepared if this doesn't work out.

kudzu, you are right. It was so upsetting to me today. She seemed so confused. Its sad that she lives alone. The winter in NY has been brutal and she can't get out (still drives)no driving now. Part of me felt it was due to being housebound. Part of me feels her mental state has changed. The computer is her link to emails and receiving photos. She forgot how to save pictures from emails. When I tried to help her she just couldn't get it.

She has Vista which is her first computer. I helped her before when I lived nearby and a neighbor did before, but he grew up and moved away. I just felt nothing I was saying was helping and getting her more confused.

I'll try Mikies link tomorrow and see if I can at least get AOL from starting up as soon as she starts the computer. She keeps trying to save things to AOL instead of her computer. Just a mess, too long to explain. I'm not great at computers, but maybe I can get rid of AOL and clean out the crap that has her machine working so slow. I'll install Malwarebytes and Spyware blaster and CCleaner. I'll see if that helps.

Jane

Sorry to hear that. I dealt with something like that a couple of years ago and had similar problems. Would it help if she had step-by-step written explanations for a couple of basic things?

I do remotes weekly for seniors, with Teamviewer, which I sometimes need to talk them thru the download by phone. then when connection is made, I open notepad and we can chat keeping answers brief on their end. The less they do the better for me, while trying to fix the problems or explain things to them.

P.S. you are planning to install too many AVI's not needed go with one good anti virus and one good maleware, to many conflict fight each other, and confuse an older person.

A new cheap laptop/desktop from Best Buy is probably cheaper than even the cheapest (you) IT service person's hours, and potentially a lot less frustrating. They might even do initial set up.

Thanks all. Mikie that was what I planned to do, try to do basic maintenance, get AOL off her start up. Try to figure out what happened to her start button and Pictures. She says there's no Start button. Should be, its Vista, but who knows. Unless I see what's there I can't even get her to My Computer. Tried, she keeps looking on AOL...don't ask. I'm getting upset just thinking about it.

I thought if I could see her screen and rearrange things to make things clearer for her, it might help. All she cares about are her pictures which she can't find. She says there is no My Pictures folder except Saved Mail (I know she's looking at AOL). So after an hour of trying to talk her through anything, I gave up. Told her I'd call next week and see if I could help. Everything she does takes forever. She can't get to Windows Explorer as she keeps working through AOL. I want to get AOL out of there.

Aputernut, I'm not installing any AV's. She has Norton and I'll leave that alone. I want Malwarebytes and CCleaner to scan. Yes, I might just tell her to leave the computer alone until I call back. I'll let them scan while I go out pulling weeds.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.
Jane

You should try TeamViewer! It has also a mobile version so you can solve problems from your mobile device!

Oh well Norton is probably the biggest problem of all, and the first thing I get rid of on any Pc even my own brand new ones and I have 5 in my home, it takes over the PC and fights with other software like Malewarebytes for dominance, I uninstall then install either AVG Free Basic or Avast/ASAP, Norton in most cases must be disabled to allow many downloads, I refuse to allow any software to take over my PC's or any I fix for other seniors. And for sure this puternut pays for nothing I can get better and Free!

Jane, she probably has the taskbar hidden, just right click the taskbar and remove the check...regarding the missing Start button. My father in law did that inadvertently, I think and I was always fixing it for him. He also would tell me that the internet was down when he had accidentally changed his homepage to something that he was unfamiliar with.

Finally, my brothers and sisters in law asked me to stop fixing his computer and tell him that it was broken. He promptly went out and spent way too much money on a new system that he still didn't know how to use. Very frustrating!

Wouldn't a magic wand be a great tool? :-)

"Oh well Norton is probably the biggest problem of all...... it takes over the PC and fights with other software like
Malewarebytes for dominance"

Sorry, this is baloney.

Experiences will vary. I've been using Norton for over 5 years, I like it a lot. There's no need for Malwarebyes or clean up programs, Norton does it all in the comprehensive package.

Personally, I had rare problems, but problems nonetheless, when using any of the "A" products and have had nada since switching to Norton.

I'm sorry she's having difficulties. I admire her so much for even trying. :) If you think she's up to it, she may want to just purchase a chromebook if there's someone to set it up for her. It's very hard to download anything that will cause a problem and it's simple to use.

Thanks. I'm not a fan of Norton either, but I don't think its the problem. I think AOL is. She is confused about internet and computer. AOL starts immediately when she turns it on and she has no clue. I need to stop that from happening.

The reality is I can do some cleanup and shut some programs down (maybe). I can't really get anywhere with teaching as I think there is some mental slowdown which is creating many of the problems.

I would never consider changing operating systems as this is the only computer she ever had. I don't need to make it more confusing. It might help to shut down AOL so she see's her computer folders where she can put her pictures. My guess is she is trying to save pictures to AOL in saved mail. She states 'I click on Save and I don't know where my pictures go." After a long time I realized she was saving pictures in AOL's saved mail. She said there was no My Pics folder.

I told her to X off AOL and go to her start button. She said there is no Start button. So, I gave up, had no idea what she was seeing. I made her restart and AOL pops up immediately. No desktop (as far as I could tell over the phone).

I'll try the remote tool and see how much I can do. I wonder if it allows me to uninstall or install anything.

Jane

Teamviewer is a great tool. I use it often on family computers.

Yes, AOL is a problem always has been and is obsolete, but I still stand by the fact that Norton is a problem and always has been, any of that junk that comes pre-installed on a PC on a trial basis it not needed when there are so many great Free options out there.(it's only there to lure you into paying later) I get rid of all of them ASAP. And I use teamviewer to fix PC's all over the world, because I am in numerous senior chat rooms daily helping other seniors to learn the PC and or fix their screw ups.

Thanks everyone, great information. I've worked on her computer in the past when I lived in NY. She was always having problems but basic cleaning and getting rid of stuff she downloaded helped. I remember a few years back she had so many toolbars I think she could have won a Guinness world record.

I tried to get her to use gmail back then and she did okay with it. I got rid of AOL but after we moved away she somehow forgot her password, got so angry at gmail and called me in Florida to tell me she wanted me to give her back her AOL. I tried to help her retrieve her password but apparently she changed her username, password so many times she had no idea what she did. She just kept demanding I give her AOL! I think she thought I had it in my pocket or something, lol.

I tried to explain she could use AOL as her mail account but to keep Firefox as a browser. Too complicated for her to understand so she has AOL for everything. She apparently installed the whole thing and now it starts up when she starts her computer. She doesn't see her desktop (at least that is how it sounds to me). Soooo, I'll call her next week and try to install Teamviewer and see what the story is.

Puternut, I told her years ago about Norton and even installed AVAST for her. Someone told her free AV was dangerous (I think a computer store) and put Norton back. But, I know this isn't her main problem. Norton is okay, I don't use it personally but I'm not going to mess with that now. I'll check to see what she's got running at start-up (which takes forever).

Thanks again,
Jane

I'm sorry to belabor the point, but for topics like this, we all learn from real life experiences but get misdirected by unsupported opinions.

nut, let's compare experiences. I checked, I first started using Norton 8 years ago. Let's round that down to 5. I've had it on as many as 8 family PCs, as few as 5, let's call that 5. 5 x 5 = 25 user years of dependable protection and trouble free service as a Norton user.

In being critical of Norton, how much knowledge and years of user experience with Norton do you have?

It seems to be that with antivirus software, everyone has preferences. But to slime a product without giving the basis for same isn't really helpful for anyone.

I have had many problems with Norton as well, but admittadly, this was a while ago. Once (or many more) times bitten and you get tired of revisiting it to see how it works in the most recent iterations. This same thing happened when Adobe Reader got bloated, and IE fell behind - it's just too much trouble to see if they got their act together, so you move on.

Obviously many people use Norton and probably like it, but it's not my preference - just not willing to go back, especially since I do just as well with free software. I wouldn't pronounce a grade for it for all users though - if you like it, then use it.

Having said that, there is a tool made specifically to uninstall every instance of it. In the old days that was sometimes almost impossible.

Norton Removal Tool

What I see a lot of though, is too many add-ons and toolbars in browsers, because people don't unclick the offers presented to them when installing software. I would look for those.

All that stuff uses up memory, so check memory use, and things running in memory that don't need to be running constantly, leading to not enough memory left for running normal user programs. Codestuff's Starter program is good for checking that.

Also, multiple antivirus products all running at the same time can create lots of problems.

kbarb-
That was my experience with both Norton and Symantec as well. For years I religiously paid for my subscription and new editions, and experienced my share of quirky behaviors. About 5 years ago I switched to Avast and have found it very effective and that it doesn't do unpredictable things to my computer. And it's free...

I religiously (and gladly) paid for Norton too, until I switched my ISP to Comcast. They provide Norton for free. Based on my monthly bill, I hesitate to say it's free, it may be more accurate to say that Norton user licenses are included in the monthly charge. I have no complaint about either, I feel like I'm getting value for money.

I had a massive infection (from a kid's friend's use) while using Avast, and in another incident I lost a different PC when AVG decided that several key Windows files were invaders and it nuked them. It was old enough, I didn't bother to reinstall Windows, but I decided that such a botched action was a good reason to lose confidence in its abilities.

As before, I've actually enjoyed Norton's quiet and unobtrusive efficiency. It runs scans when the PC is inactive, and should a user sit down to start a session, it suspends the scan until an inactive period comes along again.

Experiences can differ, and as with the prior two posts, that's what I think belongs in a discussion. Not innuendo.

That would be great if it pauses scanning when the user becomes active.
On a business PC I once inherited, some Symantec AV product - can't remember precisely which one - would bring the whole thing to a grinding halt. You could hardly summon up enough resources to terminate it. Perhaps AV software is becoming smarter.
Personally I myself don't really rely on it that much, as much of the bad stuff going around is ahead of AV software. So I more depend on being smart about what I click on - but with the right unobtrusive software it's probably a good idea, and no serious downside.

We use Symantec at work and while it's effective, it still brings computers to their knees. I have Wednesdays (scan day). Everyone thinks there is something horribly wrong with their computer.

That's most interesting, PK, very different from my experience on my home PCs with Norton Security Suite.

Back during the dark days of my own employment, my work laptop would spend the first 5-10 minutes after boot-up and sometimes longer in complete paralysis - auto-backup of new files to central servers, scan of directories to identify and eliminate unauthorized programs, centralized push-out of software updates, AND also AV scans (McAfee, it was a client). Simultaneously. It was really stupid.

Are other significant or communicating tasks happening on your work PCs when Norton is scanning? Are the PCs adequately equipped, RAM and drive-wise?

Snidely-
I agree that one's experiences can vary so I don't dispute that the paid versions work just fine for many folks. It's just that my own experience has been bad with Norton and Symantec, and I'm a fairly knowledgeable user who used one or the other on my own computers for over 10 years until I gave up. In the last year I've saved two laptops of friends from being tossed due to frustration with how slow they were. They were nearly inoperable: one took over 8 minutes to boot up and was generally and unpredictably slow; the other would often take several minutes to open a browser or would freeze up for minutes at a time when working in a program and not even being active online. Once I used the Norton uninstall tool and put on Avast they returned to normal. I've never had Avast allow an infection, though I know it could happen. I wonder if the massive infection you mention came from the kid ignoring the warnings Avast throws up if you are about to access a questionable site.

I think its all a crap-shoot. It depends on how you use your machine. I've had Norton, MacAfee, Avast, AVG, can't remember the others. I used my computers for work and had to have good security. All were networked. Years ago, Norton was a nightmare as was McAfee. They usually came preinstalled. Computers crawled when first started. I tried AVG, made a huge difference and put it on all the machines. That was 10 yrs ago. AVG became a problem about 3 yrs ago and we switched to AVAST. Easy, no slowdown and seems to do the job.

The big BUT, is how careful you surf the internet. I'm super careful. The young and elderly are not careful. They click on everything.

My hubby is in his 80's and is not careful. As my elderly friend, tends not to notice check boxes (toolbars, free McAfee, free whatever). He winds up with all sorts of adware and malware. Teenagers are similar. They will click on ads and all sorts of offers. I've given up trying to teach both groups computer safety. They just don't listen or get it.

I think the reality is that 'things' will happen. If the tools we install can't stop what the user installs and agrees to, nothing is going to work.

Thanks to this forum, I've saved computers from some very nasty attacks which nothing, no AV prevented. I so appreciate the help I've received over the years. I've cleaned out my own computers and those of friends without having to reinstall Windows.

But, as all of us age, lessons fade. So many things can happen. The computer is a lifeline to many seniors. Someone has to clean up the messes they get into. In my experience, it isn't any different than helping clean up a teenagers computer. Neither are careful. Both are impulsive.

Thanks again for this great discussion. I think the bottom line is that we can't depend on anything, any tool which will prevent people from making mistakes - which they don't realize they are making. Its human nature,

Jane

Just wanted to add to the chorus that's suggested Team Viewer to help your friend with her computer. My mom is in her 70s and isn't computer savvy, so I used to spend hours on the phone trying to help her with computer problems. Several years ago, we installed TV on her computer and now I can just dial into her computer, see what she sees, and either instruct her on how to fix whatever or just do it myself.

Good idea to check start up, but more important is control panel/ programs add remove or uninstall then carefully check the list when populated anything conduit get rid of ASAP also any other oddities that may say surfing or shopping etc. however conduit is the absolute worse it can open the door to over 100 more crap things to get in the PC in a very short time and you will not even know it is happening. P. S. Here's a link to an article about Norton problems on Vista so ya'll know I am not just blowing smoke: http://www.ehow.com/list_7475028_problems-norton-antivirus-vista.html

@ aputernut

Was that a stream-of-consciousness moment ?
There's like about a 100 words there, with no punctuation, no sentence capitalization, nothing . . .
How are we supposed to parse something like that ?
lol

Btw, the way that link was made, it only goes to ehow.com .

I did take a look though . . . as you probably know, ehow.com is by no means a tech site. They have people employed to dream up things to write "how-to" articles about, a lot of it being almost copy & paste. They may be correct on some points, but it's hardly a definitive or authoritative site for tech info.

Here's another link, and there are many more plus I am in contact with many techs and most use AVG 2015 or Avast, I wonder why that is?

http://helpmerick.com/norton_may_slow_computers_down.htm

I usually use Avast or Avira, but to answer your "wonder why" question . . . the main drivers are : what came with their computer, what they've heard most about, and what they don't have to pay money for - in other words, what's free.
Most people don't know where to find the independent tests that would show how effective one AV is compared to another.

I once thought that using free antivirus must be a compromise compared to paying for protection. However, after having various problems with McAfee and Norton over the years and reading ratings on AV software -- free and paid -- in Consumer Reports and various tech blogs I switched over to Avast and have been happy since.

Anyway, back to the original question, I'd second TeamViewer as well. Fourth ?
I used to use all the VNC possibilities, but it's hard to beat TeamViewer for ease of use.

I use TeamViewer to connect to PCs outside the house and VNC for internal use to a headless server.

Jane, feel sorry for your friend as her first computer is a Vista.

I used own one that last 8 buggy years. It brought out the worst in me that I never knew they existed. We folks are not unfamiliar with computer yet every single scientist and engineer I know who also has a Vista hates it. Mine died showing no desktop when booted it up. Its biggest contribution is encouraging me to switch from wintel to Apple, I am so in love with my MAC.

Junk that Vista is another viable option.