Do the kids also walk to school up hill both ways :)

Olychick, if these are catholic schools, then I think there's usually tuition that has to be paid so the parents will probably be able to afford coats, etc. It's actually a bigger problem if the public schools close b/c so many people are dependent on free lunches in Philly public schools. I think they try to keep them open despite the concerns about the difficulty with handling cold for just that reason.

Hi Faron, you tough guy you. :). Here in the mid-Atlantic, we are not so tough! Our temps went to 0 or below in some areas (Lynchburg Va got to -11 yikes). We just aren't used to temps like that. Here in northern VA, we also closed due to cold. We have lots of children who just won't be dressed for the weather. On Thursday, some of our buses were over an hour late picking up students in the morning. It was not a bad week for teachers, though-Thursday was the only day we worked! love snow, but starting to feel ready for spring.

We will send you our spring pictures when you are still stuck with winter! Hehheh.

Same thing here in the Southeast. We had a record low of 7 yesterday and had freezing rain and sleet Monday and Tuesday, but people here do not have the huge inventory of warm coats, snow boots, etc., like I had growing up in Buffalo. There also isn't a huge fleet of snow removal equipment to do anything beyond the interstates and main roads. Side streets are not normally touched, so buses cannot get down them. I don't even have that many thick sweaters and long underwear because they are only worn a few times per year. I do own a good pair of winter boots.

Our dept admin's husband has been a school bus driver. Apparently below a certain temperature they have trouble starting the diesel buses.

Beagles, I went to Catholic school K-12 and never rode a school bus in my life. Sometimes in HS we would get rides from my neighbor's grandpa.

Kids here stay indoors for lunch and recess if the windchill hits -25c, which is about -10f Google tells me. Air temps may be many degrees warmer. Schools certainly aren't closed. I suspect in areas unaccustomed to this weather kids likely don't have appropriate clothing and I'm certain poverty aggravates the situation. A properly dressed child (or anyone) from anywhere in the world can handle these temperatures. Without proper clothing this weather can be dangerous, however, and erring on the side of caution might be reasonable.

"It's not a toughness competition." I second that.

I think the coldest I've ever experienced is 15 degrees. That was too darn cold and I refuse to believe I'm some kind of weather wimp. Of course, this is coming from a Texas gal who won't even bat an eye at 3 weeks of over 100 degrees. NOT!

I"m with Faron on this one. Minus 5 may be a reason to hold recess indoors, but it is not a reason to not have school, IMO. But I suppose it's like how we here in NE laugh at those in DC when the city closes down due to 3 inches of snow.

Minus 8 here on Cape Cod. Out with the dogs; played tetherball with the Wheaten puppy. But I admit, we weren't out there for long.

But yes, I think we're a bit soft on and overprotective of kids now, as a culture. Seem to not tolerate any discomfort for them at all.

For some really tough kids, check out the babies left napping outside in subzero temperatures. These kids know how to handle the cold! http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21537988

The problem here seems to be inconsistent winters. They have been relatively easy for many years now. Once in a while we get a bad storm. I never wore gloves all of last winter and only 3 times this year while we are having record low temps. My 18yo rarely wears her winter coat and open her car windows when its in the single digits. If she ever got stuck in her car she would have a serious problem. Many here simply do not wear the type of winter clothes that we did when I was a kid. At 30 degrees you see people in shorts and flipflops. So you have many parents who don't dress their kids properly.

Here in Buffalo, NY back in 2002 there was a snowstorm on the Monday before Thanksgiving. It hit right when kids were on the buses going home. My 1st grader left school at 2:30 pm and did not get dropped off at our house until 9 pm. It took three buses to get him home as they kept sliding off the road into ditches. I had no way to contact him and the school transportation garage phone was constantly busy all night. My son was just one of many who went through something like that. Many adults abandoned their cars and spent the night in grocery stores or businesses as they were unable to get home.

Ever since then many agree that it changed the way weather is reported here. The media seems to try to scare us as they don't want to be responsible if there is a tragedy with kids. So we have somewhat easy winters with an occasional very bad storm. Most people do not prepare properly and don't seem to heed warnings. So now when the weather might be bad, all the schools close.

Kids in Philadelphia cannot walk to school. It isn't safe and often it is too far. Safety means having to cross wide, busy roads, not so much crime. These kids take public transportation to get back and forth. It can be unreliable in extremely cold weather. Five degrees isn't normal here. My car wouldn't start yesterday. I guess if I lived where brutally cold temperatures are the norm, I would have special equipment to handle that. The tuition for Catholic schools here is minimal and many kids are subsidized . We aren't talking about private schools.

Beagles that's so cool! Agree, cold air is so much healthier…for lungs, skin, immune systems, etc.

I didn't mean to rile anybody up ("too much" anyway...:-)) here!
(For those who don't know, I'm in Fargo, ND...and it's -1F here @ 7pm CST. On our way to MINUS 20 tonite!!)

I was just SHOCKED when I read that sentence about Philly!! They're North enough to have some Winter and storms! It's a big enough metropolis that should have enough winter prep/removal equipment?!
I kinda hate to say this....but, yeah...I think people have become "softer" & less tolerant of weather. I admit...Faron doesn't like heat very much!! DRY heat is ok, but here, we can't seem to have hot weather without a ton of humidity...ugh! I would MELT in Texas.

When I was a kid...below Zero??!?!?! WOO-HOO!!! It just meant good Hot-Cocoa when we came in from playing!

Faron

And snow is WAY funner when it's very cold because it's crisp and dry snow, perfect for sledding, skiing, etc.

Yep!!!! And you get that neat "crunching/squeaking" sound when you walk on it!! When you get out of a snowpile, the powder just falls off! At night, growing-up in the country, I'd sometimes drive away from the farm, turn off the car lights, and just watch the incredibly clear stars when it's like -10-ish. You could see the neighboring farms' lights clearer, even if they were MILES away.

When the Northern-Lights were rockin'.....WOW!!!

Faron

What seems to cause most problems in the southeast are ice storms. There have also been extremely cold temps recently. Tragically, Tennessee alone has had 21 weather-related deaths in the past week. When you are one of those making decisions about whether to cancel school, close businesses, etc., you are placed in a tough position. Some will be unhappy with or belittle whatever decision is made. Most here do err on the side of caution.

Yeah...there's no way to win when Ice is in the mix. There's WAAAAaaayyyy to many IDIOTS who THINK they know how to drive on it. Some think that SUV's &/OR 4WD or AWD vehicles are immune from ice!
ICE is the great equalizer.
ANY advantage an SUV has DISAPPEARS when traction = 0.

Faron

Don't broad brush the whole northeast based on one decision. This a.m. it is -10 or colder in many towns in our state and schools are still in session. I think only one school delayed due to bus problems.

A lot depends on what you're used to....used to crack me up when it got cold in FL where Mom was...the kids bundled up in hats and gloves and scarves and heavy coats because it was 50!

Ice and mountains of plowed snow on street corners are what are dangerous. Ice…forget it. All you can do is genuflect and hope for a good outcome if you go driving on ice. The huge piles of snow…can't see kid/people and cars around corners. But yep, it's zero here this morning and school is in session.

While surely not the coldest area of the country, the wind chills took the 0 degree temps on Friday to much lower temps. Here, west of Philadelphia we did go below 0 (tied a record). Our schools were on delays because of heating issues (we don't have buses in our small, suburban school district but admittedly many parents drive their kids to school). Here (and along the whole NE corridor) Amtrak has cut back service here and stopped some runs due to the extreme cold. I understand SEPTA has done the same. I think the reality is that communities and infrastructure aren't prepared for temperatures at the extremes for our area. Kids who attend parochial schools are often dependent on public transportation-- buses as well as trains, trollies. Large transportation delays, 30+ mph gusts and struggling heating systems .. a formula for unhealthy/unsafe conditions.

I don't think it's fair to compare these conditions with Fargo, Faron. Your school buildings and transportation infrastructures are built in support of your normal temperatures. Your children are outfitted with extreme cold gear... and taught how to handle/prepare for the cold.

Communities are doing what they can to handle snow, ice and cold. I don't see school closing or delays as coddling. They're looking at their conditions and making decisions to keep their children safe.

Someone made a mini-snowman and set it on top of the mail box at our post office to greet us as we drop off the mail. Little fella seems right at home.

Nah. It's coddling.

Girls in many places in the world risk their lives in order to get an education. Schools have heat. Temp is not a reason to not have school. And it's good for children to be made to learn how to adapt to changing environments, Coping skills, street smarts, safety intelligence. If they're kept from anything that poses any discomfort or risk, they'll never learn how to manage either.

I think with the inactivity of solar activity witnessed for the last 5 years we will be seeing these extreme cold winters for decades to come thru out our country so those systems not yet equipped to handle it better get up to snuff. This is our future.

It was seven degrees this morning and all the schools were open on time. Philadelphia kids are not so wimpy after all, despite ice everywhere due to one warmer day of melting and then refreezing. A lot of these kids live in conditions that would make you or me cry. They have learned to cope with things many of us never imagined. No one is coddling them, although most are very much loved.

Actually the Philadelphia school system has become much more "aggressive" in school closing because of issues with transportation and potential for litigation, in my opinion. Many kids rely heavily on public transportation and if something happens to public transportation they are often Miles away from home.

Several years ago there was an ice storm and school was not called off, and they did an early dismissal. Of course everyone else was leaving the city, too.

There were several school buses stuck on a major artery, full of kids, for over eight hours. There was no place for them to get off, there was nothing they could do but sit on the bus, somewhat like those planes you read about stranded on the runway for hours, full of passengers. There were also lesser, but significant problems with the subway and with regional rail. There were kids getting home at night after a late morning dismissal.

One day a week I work 19 miles out of the city and there are kids that get on the train or are already on the train when I get on and they get off the same place I do--and then walk a bit through a very congested suburban area that's almost pedestrian hostile to get to school. If there is lots of snow, you are walking on the side of the road with cars going by.

Ever since the ice storm event in particular, it seems they are almost overly cautious about what is happening with the weather.

I'm glad the people with the authority to make decisions about the health and safety of the kids are being more cautious than not and more compassionate than some here. Just because some kids somewhere have different circumstances....the people on the ground in the areas where the children are should make the decisions based on what is in front of them.

Sure, there are kids around the world who go to schools that don't have running water or flush toilets, but that doesn't mean that you'd want your kids (or others' kids) to attend school if those systems aren't working in our schools. Or would that be coddling them? Tough it out kids.

One of the things that many people do not realize about Pennsylvania and Philadelphia is that it essentially straddles three Climate Zones or subzones. Philadelphia county and a couple others share the climate characteristics of Virginia, Kentucky, and parts of North Carolina, while the part I grew up in shares the climate characteristics of South Dakota. The rest of the state is in a more middling zone. One town near where I grew up often has one of the coldest temperatures in the US. Philadelphia more typically has the weather of a "southern" state, and the preparedness and response for "severe cold" or "heavy snow" are informed by that.

Oly, no one is saying kids should go to school on zero degree days when there is no heat in the school.

I have compassion for kids. I think they're smarter and tougher than many parents treat them now, and yes, I have a lot of compassion for them over that. And the schools are not protecting kids. They're protecting themselves from lawsuits from parents.

I live in MD by the Chesapeake Bay in what is fondly known in this area as "the bubble" b/c just north of us, the Baltimore area often gets snow while we just get rain as does the western side of Wash DC. We have had several "snow" days in my county when all we had was rain b/c the school system made one bad call this winter, starting school on time when every county around us had a delay due to an ice storm that arrived just when buses were headed out. We have had countless delays for a variety of "no show" predicted weather. Just over a week ago, we had a 2 hr delay b/c temps were in the single digits. That caused a huge debate. Then for school yesterday, another 2hr delay was announced Sunday night b/c temps were predicted to fall below freezing and cause black ice from melting snow. And yet temps did not fall below freezing until mid-day. One local FAcebook page had one woman all upset b/c there was ice on the school sidewalk which she thought was dangerous. The hilarious part was that she posted a picture of the sidewalk, 3/4 of which was heavily sanded for pedestrians. There were cones along the side to mark where people should walk. I was astounded that she was upset b/c the sidewalk was properly treated! Yet she wants schools closed b/c despite being heavily sanded, they were not cleared to pavement.

I'd hate to be the decision maker b/c they can't win...they will never please everyone. I do agree that we are coddling our kids. The only ones complaining on Facebook around here are the ones whose kids have the means to be properly dressed, are dropped off at school or have a quick school bus ride. I'm sure the ones who can't afford proper winter clothing most likely *want* their kids to have school b/c they have jobs that either won't allow them to take time off or they can't afford to b/c it means they don't get paid. It also means their kids will have a meal/free lunch, something they might not get at home if there isn't much money. Funny thing is, my neighbor has discovered that on most of the local Facebook pages, the majority of people complaining that school should be delayed or closed are people who are employed by the school,system so it isn't an inconvenience to them like it is to other working parents.

I must live in the South Dakota part of Philadelphia. I am freezing my buns off today. Brrrr.

LOL Dedtired. Wrap up and hang in there! I am freezing today too!
It's 18 deg today but it feels colder than the days it was below 0!

Believe me....I'm not painting the whole NE with the same brush.
Only talking about that ONE Philly decision.
No school because of 5deg ABOVE 0...Wow.
I'm sorry...That's just TOO wimpy.

Doesn't seem like that long ago, when the season called WINTER came around, you just DEALT with it, & used your damn head.
Instead, nowadays, some groups are so damn gun-shy of (weather-related) lawsuits, etc., that any chance of "slick roads", etc., brings things to a halt!

Seems like fewer & fewer people know anything about coping in REAL weather.
"Whoops! My kid slipped on the ice!!! Nooooooo..! Honey, who should we sue?!??!"

Faron

It's a whole host of problems, Faron. Threats and fear of lawsuits; the cost of health care and insurance (if a kid gets a boo-boo or a broken arm or whatever); lack of common sense; lack of lore knowledge; overprotection of children…we're stuck in this eddy of ridiculousness and greed, a nasty mix.

I am reminded of the hilarious "Simpsons" episode where the town adults have gathered to address some issue, an issue which had nothing to do with children, and one woman was running around screaming, "But what about the children?!!! Who'll protect the children??!!!" Thought I was going to fall on the floor laughing. Kudos to the writer who came up with that (Conan O'Brien?) one. Always amazed at how observant creative people can be. Best: David Chase/"Sopranos"; Ira Levin/"The Stepford Wives"….among many others.

Like Faron, we Canadians pride ourselves on how well we've adapted to the cold. This documentary kind of blows a hole in that theory.

http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/life-below-zero

It's been awhile since I watched it, but I think one of the main ideas is that because we are a nation of immigrants, we have always sort of fought against the cold (build malls, hunker down inside to survive winter). They compare our attitude towards winter to those in the Nordic countries where they embrace winter and spend as much time outdoors in winter as in summer.

Beagles, I sent that link about the babies sleeping outside to my coworkers in one of my "Happy Monday" emails and you would not believe the response I got - so many people said that their grandparents did that with their babies or that they have friends in Europe who do it. I knew it made me happy, but was surprised by how many other people thought it was really neat too.

DH was a two pound, thirteen ounce preemie born in 1958. There is a picture of him "getting his airing", as his mother called it, as a one year old, napping in his pram with snowbanks all around him.

And nobody loves a mall like a Canadian, I'm convinced of it ;)