Help with 5:1:1

9 years ago

Some lol-basic questions about quantities needed for Al's 5:1:1. I'm in UK so products are maybe marked up differently here. Overall I'm looking to make up about a cubic metre (approx 260 gallons) of mix for 7 balcony containers.

1. Are AGED pine bark fines ok? Its the only type I can find here; has particles in the 0-8mm range.

2. The manufacturer (Sinclair) recommends adding 100g/m3 of ammonium nitrate per 10% bark used, which to me sounds odd as it fixes the quantity of nitrate irrespective of the overall total quantity of bark fines. Does anyone have a formula for nitrate which makes more sense, or is this one ok?

3. And now for the dumbest question...if peat doubles in volume when you fluff and wet it, do you only order half the quantity needed for the mix?!

4. Although I appreciate that different plants need fine tuning on the mix/water/nutrients front, is the 5:1:1 mix the best GENERAL mix to get started with for flower & shrub (not veggie) filled containers?

5. Are there any UK 5:1:1 users out there?! Any hard learnt tips for South England containers using this mix?

Just a quick note of thanks for all advice last time...I somehow managed to miss the autumn plant up season but I'm now in poll position for Spring!

Featured Answer

tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

9 years ago

The NH4NO3 is added to help reduce the impact of any N immobilization that might occur when using uncomposted PBFs.

Slightly aged PBFs are good, but bark in an advanced stage of breakdown will generally be almost as fine as peat and will hold a LOT of perched water, so keep that in mind as you decide how much additional peat might be necessary. If your bark is quite fine, you might not want or need the peat fraction.

One peat packager provides peat in large, 105 cu ft compressed bales that loft out to 240 cu ft, so in that sense, peat expands from the compressed bale to the product used in the soil by a factor of 2.0 - maybe as much as 2.5, depending on how highly compressed the bale is when you buy it. When you measure it for soils, you'll be measuring the product's volume after it's been decompressed, or 'fluffed' up.

The recipes can be put to use by both experienced growers and beginners, but the concept that spawned the soils is the key to your ability to build a soil that fits your needs best. After a year or two of making your own 5:1:1 mix (I think we call it that regardless of what ratio you actually end up using), you'll be able to LOOK at the bark and instinctually know how much peat you need to add to get the water retention you want.

Unfortunately, what's best for the plants usually requires more effort from the grower. Soils that don't hold perched water or those that hold very little, are going to offer better opportunity (from a hydrologic perspective) for plants to grow as close as possible to their genetic potential. Root health, and perhaps light, probably have more impact on your plant's vitality than any other cultural factors you're likely to consider.

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Comments (8)

drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Aged pine bark is exactly what you want. peat does not expand, don't worry about that. You must be thinking of coir which come in compressed bricks. I suppose if peat comes that way it may expand, it does not come compressed here. The 5-1-1 is by volume. I myself think it is way too dry and use a 3-1-1 mix. I mostly grow vegetables. If using for house plants 5-1-1 makes more sense. As often overwatering happens easily indoors.

This mix is a general mix and should be tweaked depending on plant grown. It's a good mix for beginner's and a good base mix for advanced gardeners. If you're in the UK I would suggest listening to Gardener's Question Time on the BBC radio. I like the show a lot and listen to podcasts. In the UK many use compost in containers too, which I myself think is an excellent idea. It adds bacteria, and prevents root rot. I add it to most of my container mixes and have had excellent results. Add 1 part to the mix.

As far as the nitrate, well how you fertilize is up to you. Follow label directions. I'm not sure of the purpose of the nitrate with pine? I guess because it has no nutrients to speak of, and in the UK almost all potting soils have nutrients so they are concerned about it. We add nutrients each time we water or use time released fertilizer or a little of both.
containergardenerbeginner thanked drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
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Here is a little help... 5-1-1 5 parts pine bark fines, dust - 3/8 (size is important 1 part sphagnum peat (not reed or sedge peat please) 1-2 parts perlite (coarse, if you can get it) garden lime (or gypsum in some cases) controlled release fertilizer (if preferred) Big batch: 2-3 cu ft pine bark fines 5 gallons peat 5 gallons perlite 2 cups dolomitic (garden) lime (or gypsum in some cases) 2 cups CRF (if preferred) Small batch: 3 gallons pine bark 1/2 gallon peat 1/2 gallon perlite 4 tbsp lime (or gypsum in some cases) 1/4 cup CRF (if preferred) :-) Laura
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containergardenerbeginner
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks again Al. As I've been reading more posts, I've become ever more confused - I think that's what delayed me planting up last Autumn. Should I actually be going for the gritty mix? The last thing I want to be doing is having to re-pot 7 (95x30x60cm/ 3ftx1ftx2ft) balcony containers every couple of years. I'm going to be using an automated watering system so I'm less worried about the mix drying up. And adding fertiliser regularly is hardly onerous! So, I'm guessing that for me, the decider between 5:1:1 and Gritty is what I'm planning to plant...lavender, rosemary, jasmine, rose, peony, spring bulbs, one container will be ericaceous (camelia, acer) , hydrangea, verbona, geranium etc etc - mainly perennials and/or evergreens, plenty of fragrants, with annuals for colour splash. Probably a typical beginner-lady's container garden! What, oh what, to do re the mix?! I really do need to get the growing medium ordered this week...
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
9 years ago
Great discussion.

I don't have much to add....but, yes, for the lavender, rosemary, jasmine, rose, I'd say Gritty Mix would be a better option (although my sister grows rosemary in 5-1-1 with great success). The Hydrangea I definitely see as being better paired with the 5-1-1.

Josh
containergardenerbeginner
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks Josh! It is so kind of you to respond, I hope you know how much we all appreciate it!

I've just clicked that weight is going to be an issue with the Gritty mix. I saw Al's post substituting in perlite for granite grit, tho he cautions about it holding more water. Is it really ok to do that? Should I go 50:50 between perlite and granite grit (if I can find the latter)? HOw would it effect the ratio with the Turface?

In the UK I just can't find Turface - I'm being directed towards Tesco (supermarket) Kitty Litter as being the nearest option which I find kinda laughable! Its made out of Diatomaceous Earth, though has added perfume, apparently. Anyone in UK have a more convincing sounding option for US Turface?!

And is it right that - if I can get it - using Dyna-gro FP 9:3:6 means not having to add any gypsum or Epsom salts?

Are there ANY Brits who have successfully found the ingredients who could point me in the right direction of any retailers? (I'll re-post this with the 1:1:1 heading too)
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
9 years ago
Hey, you're welcome!

Easy question first: with Foliage Pro, no need for gypsum or Epsom salts.

Do NOT use any product with perfume or scent added. But hard-fired DE is very suitable for container mixes. Just be advised that products may vary from region to region, and bag to bag.

Gritty will be quite heavy, and yes you can sub the Perlite for granite. More Perlite, less Turface (or DE). I think Al would be the one to field this question regarding tinkering with the ratios.

Josh
containergardenerbeginner
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks Josh. Going big on kitty litter tomorrow! One last question before I jump in - one of my containers will be ericaceous. What do I add to the Gritty mix as fertiliser for this one? Am planning on getting the Dyna Pro FP 9:3:6 for the other containers...
greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
9 years ago
I'm not really sure. For acid-loving plants, such as blueberries, I'd be using a variation of the 5-1-1, without adding the Dolomitic Lime.

Josh

Help with 5:1:1

tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

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drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a

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