This discussion had more entries, wonder where they went?

This one only had the two comments, but the heat discussion got carried over to the "how fast does a sans grow" discussion started by someone else. I wouldn't know that except that I'm sort of responsible for mingling them. Sorry to make it confusing.

The Bantel's Sensation offshoot in the same pot has only been there since a few days before I started this post. I stuck it in when I realized what a difference the heat was making. I'm looking forward to seeing it grow too.

You see how close to the rim of the cup the little laurentii pup has gotten? The last photo of it was also just 6 days ago. All this growth just blows me away since these plants hadn't grown visibly at all since I got them last summer.

TY, almost-senior moment I guess. Your plants look GREAT!

I have a same or very similar succulent to your little purple one. Put a pic today in house plants about 'fav combo today.'

I saw that pic on your home page, and wondered if it might be the same cultivar. Gotta love that color! Mine is from a leaf of Sedeveria Hummel's Sunset, if I recall. Beautiful plant, but judging by the ones I collected the leaves from, they need to be cut back often to retain the rosette shape. The parent plants were lying horizontally and had become almost vine-like. I have several leaves started. I'm looking forward to them getting some size this summer. Yours is gorgeous.

Oops, just checked my notes. I believe it's Graptosedum 'Darly Sunshine,' not a Sedeveria or Hummel's sunset.

Those hybrids are all so similar... and I want them all! TY for the name!

kwie2011, you mentioned that you've got your sans in 'grit', and I'm always interested in alternative growing mediums and amendments. What is your grit, exactly, and what is your source? I can't find a good large-grained sand here in central Fla, only fine stuff, so have used chicken grit from feed stores on occasion, which turned out to be crushed granite. I normally use perlite since it's cheaper by volume, but I don't like that it's so light.

Thanks, Russ

I agree with you about perlite. I've compared it against several similar media for starting leaves and cuttings, and it has exceeded everything, but it is too light to keep plants in for long, and it floats, and it sticks to everything.

My grit is 2 parts granite chicken grit - probably like yours, to 1 part similarly sized diatomaceous earth for absorbing garage spills. I buy the cheapest at the parts store. It's made by Moltan but usually sports the label of whatever auto parts store sells it. I just rinse it before use, no sifting. I also use the same mix with 1 part pumice, which I think I might like a bit better, but I'm not entirely sure yet. All of them absorb and retain heat well. This summer I'll transfer more Sans to grit and probably plant them in black pots to get the most heat out of what little sun I can get here. It'll be interesting to see how they grow.

The pumice is from a forest products company that sells in bulk, decorative bark, mulch, river rock, soil amendments, sand, red lava rock, compost, bark fines, and so on. Most of its customers are landscapers, but they also sell to the general public.

Thanks Kwie. Someone sent me a small bag of pumice years ago, and it's excellent, the best I've ever used. You must be in a far-western state as I've only heard of pumice being available there. It's virtually non-existent here in Florida, and never saw it during my many years in Texas. I could mail order it in small quantities (expensive) but I have several hundred sansevierias, so I've made-do with other materials.

Your grit-sized diatomaceous earth product sounds similar to what I know here as Turface, originally developed to condition baseball infields. It's available at some Ace Hardware stores and a few other places. I've used this off-and-on, mostly in a mix of 1 part ground bark, 1 part perlite and 1 part Turface. Grows excellent sans, my only complaint is that since the mix is very light and very loose, if a pot tips over it all spills out.

Anyway, thanks again, I appreciate the info and I'll experiment with your grit recipe.

Russ, central Fla

Russ, you might experiment with limestone. Might affect pH, but it's very porous. I think Florida is perched on a bed of limestone.

Yeah, I'm in Oregon. Land of volcanoes. Plenty of pumice out here.

I have a bucket of ground, fine limestone that I use to very inaccurately affect pH, and I can buy white pebbles used for road grading that I think is limestone but they're too big in size.

I figured you must be in Oregon or Washington since you mentioned 'what little sun I can get here', which ruled out Calif. I've never been out west except when I went through Calif on the way to Thailand during Vietnam thing. Always wanted to drive up US 1 from San Diego area to Washington, maybe a small motorhome with stops of a day or two along the way. You've probably seen that coastline many times but for a flat-lander in Florida it'd be fascinating.

I envy you that you're literally swimming in pumice, but not so much your lack of sun. Everything is a big fat compromise, isn't it.

Best, Russ

Yep, my dogs and I drove the Coast hwy in an RV. It's a better drive in a comfortable car or on a bike, but the freedom to overnight along the cliffs was a worthwhile trade.

I grew up in Arizona, lived in Florida a couple years, then moved to Seattle. I don't recommend that route - shock to the system. I've moved all over the country since then, and prefer NW gloom over Southern sweat, but yeah, everything IS a big, fat compromise.

Pumice here is dirt cheap. A 5-gal bucket costs 2 or 3 bucks. It's quite light too. Probably still not practical to ship for as much as you'd need with so many Sans, but if you ever want some, I'm glad to ship for cost...or maybe a trade if you have some Sans in your collection that I can't resist (I'm hooked...even if I have to set them all on reptile heaters to get them to grow in this crazy climate).

A word of caution and advice for anyone who might try bottom heat - water often. I let a tray of perlite go dry on top of one of thee reptile heaters, and the plastic has warped badly enough to push the plants up.

Grit and perlite conduct heat really well, so all the media gets quite warm and dries very fast. In my 60/55 degree apartment right now with 70% humidity, I'm watering my heated plants in perlite and grit daily, but unheated plants in the same media only weekly or less.. Fyi, coir and regular potting soil don't conduct heat anything like the grit or perlite, neither does vermiculite (which used to be used as insulation). I'm trying heat on those, but they just don't heat up like the gritty stuff.

Thanks for all that info, good to know. I guess rock-based stuff transfers heat better than 'fluffy' material like peat and vermiculite. Vermiculite is originally a mineral but can't recall which one, possibly obsidian or maybe that's what perlite is. I'm using a mix for my sans of finely ground pine bark (for an organic), perlite, and Turface which is calcined clay. I'm going to get some grit and experiment. Sans do okay in a regular peat mix with perlite but during the winter it holds too much water and roots get rotted. So I'm gradually repotting everything into the looser mix, which will probably take most of the summer.

I've been reworking and updating my sansevieria list. I have dozens of annotations and additions to make to it right now, I'll post it in next couple of days if I can figure out how to do that out of my 'OpenOffice' program. Adding it to this post like I would a picture doesn't seem to work.

Russ

I figured it out, a simple copy and paste. Here's my list so far, I'll post it again when I get updates added. Spoon-leaf types are on a separate list, which I'll add next post. Always looking for trades for any I don't have.

Russ, central Fla

Sansevieria
List Feb 2015

Species
and Hybrids

abyssinica
(forskaoliana)

'Alva'
trifasciata X deserti

aubrytiana

bagamoyensis
(arborescens?)

bandipur

ballyi

bella

caespitosa
(have?)

canaliculata

canaliculata
dwarf

caulescens

cf.
caulescens

cylindrica
v. cylindrica

dawei

deserti

dooneri

downsii

ehrenbergii

elliptica
(sp. Horwood, sp. 22830, FKH 424)

erythraea

fasciata

fischeri
(singularis)

fischeri
X trifasciata hybrid

francisii

grandis

gracilis
Pfennig's form

hallii

hallii
Blue Form (Blue Bat)

hallii
Lundi (Lundi Bat)

cf.
hallii D. McMurtry, Lundi River

Heidelberg
seedling, GC 22836 Grigsby Nursery

javanica
Striated

Koko
– E. E.'s Koko (Ed Eby)

kirkii
v. pulchra

kirkii
v. Superclone

kirkii
v. Coppertone

liberica

Leopard
Bat fischeri X raffillii

Lone
Kofod probably is dooneri

Manny
Singer hybrid (same as Leopard Bat?)

Malawi
Midnight sp. 21027

Midnight
Fountain hybrid

masoniana

masoniana
GC 78-133 Grigsby Nursery

metallica
(guineensis) Manolyn

metallica
(guineensis) Siam Silver

metallica
(guineensis) San Remo

nilotica
v. obscura

Old
Man Silver trifasciata X deserti Fla-H13 (USDA hybrid program 1950's)

pearsoni
UCD-B73-064 HBG 61036, Rodin 9259 Dramboland, S. Africa

patens

pinguicula

parva

parva
Gilt-Edge

Parva
Wide Leaf

phillipsiae Botanic Garden Puerto De La Cruz, Tenerife Island Spain

raffillii

robusta

roxburghiana

rhodesiana
Alan Butler, Vivaio Brookside Italy, IX 2008 ex VBN (salig)

sambiranensis Warsaw Poland)

scimitariformis Vivaio Brookside, Italy SA124

sinus-simiorum 7/2006

stuckyi
(mutant) 1998

subsipicata

Stellette
(hybrid w/trifasciata)

Screen
Door trifasciata X deserti (Fla H-13)

suffruticosa

suffruticosa
Frosty Spears (supposedly)

Tugela
River Valley

Tom
Grumbley Vivaio Brookside, Italy SA153 10/2009

volkensii
(intermedia) Huntington BG, Calif HBG 61071

Trifasciata

Bantel's
Sensation

Black
Sport

Black
Gold

Craigii

Futura

Gilt
Edge

Gold
Flame

Gray
Lady

Hahnii
Jade Dwarf

Hahnii
Jade Dwarf Marginated

Hahnii
Marginated

Hahnii
Seibert

Hahnii
Silver Frost

Hahnii
Streaker

Laurentii

Laurentii
Compacta

Lillian
True (Slipped Stripes)

Silver
Queen (propagating leaf only, might be Gray Lady)

Slimmerette

Sunrise

Twisted
Sister

Wagner's
Gold

Since my first post, I put a couple more pots on heat. These are just in soil, and the heat source is a microwaveable disc that starts very hot, then cools before reheating, so these get very inconsistent heat, but one of the two is already responding with a new shoot/pup and clear growth marks on existing leaves. I expect the other little pot will sprout something soon too.

Hooray! The Whitney on the heat disc with the Moonshine previous post now has a tiny offshoot/pup just breaking the soil surface.

It seems to take 2-4 weeks on the heat source for offshoots or new leaves to appear. The plants on the heat disc in soil rather than grit produced offshoots faster, (in just a couple weeks vs. about a month) which confuses me a bit. Soil doesn't conduct heat as well as grit, and their heat source is really inconsistent (I microwave it about 3 times a day whenever I remember, so it's almost too hot too touch for about an hour, then cools over 4-6 hours and stays cool until I remember to nuke it again). I can't explain why these plants showed new growth in less time than those in grit on consistent heat. The only standardized variables are air temperature and photoperiod. Everything else is different, so I'd have to play around with different growing media and different temperatures before I could even hypothesize about the difference in growth rates between the two groups, but it does demonstrate that any heat is better than none.

The one exception to all the success is the Bantel's Sensation offshoot. I put it on the heat pad with the dwarf at least a week before I placed the Moonshine and Whitney on heat, so I'd have expected it to have shown new growth before they did, but conditions are far from identical, and this particular plant has given me trouble from the start. Of 4 offshoots I took in July, this is the only survivor. I don't know what to blame for its failure to thrive. I have read that Bantel's Sensation is such a slow-growing cultivar that it's impractical for most commercial growers, so maybe it just needs more time. If it dies or starts growing, I'll be sure to post it.

Russ, since you have so many cultivars to compare it to, have you noticed Bantel's Sensation being particularly slow or difficult?

Good news, Kwie, congrats! Those heating pads are working well, I'm impressed. I wouldn't have a clue regarding speed of offsets in grit vs soil, but obviously heat works.

Yes, Bantel's is slow but I don't find it particularly difficult. It does have the white variegation which, lacking chlorophyll, doesn't make food, so obviously makes it slower than a green sans. I've had minor problems with the white areas of leaves getting a rust just like Manolyn and Siam Silver get, but it's minimal and isn't a big deal.

I'm seeing pots of Bantel's for sale here with 4 to 6 plants in Lowe's and Home Depot. So there are some growers producing them fast enough to make marketing worthwhile. I believe the pots were $10. My Bantel's sometimes offset Black Sport, some also produce an in-between version and then next generation or two will be full-Black Sports. Interesting to see the progression.

Let's see some pics in a month or so of the new offsets.

Russ

I will definitely post as these guys grow. It is exciting and rewarding to see such obvious and immediate improvement from something I've done with my plants.

That is really interesting info about the Bantel's. What fun! All the more reason for me to get some to grow well. I'd love to have them producing different offsets. I like plants that grow and change all the time. I'll have to check our home improvement stores here to see if they're getting any in yet.

I think Black Sport is a fairly common offset from Bantel's, I've never had a Black Sport offset back to Bantel's. I have had Bantel's offset two different highly variegated plants. One looked like Bogor in Juan Chahinian's Trifasciata book, the other was identical to his pic of White Ghost. The latter was almost albino and was ultimately way too sensitive for me to grow. I would have to isolate these near-albino types completely from the rest of my collection and water very sparingly, however, just the high humidity here in Fla might cause them to rot. Golden Hahnii is very tough to grow.

I'll see if I have an extra Black Sport and Bantel's I could share.

Russ

Doh! I must be an idiot. Of course the lack of chlorophyll would make Bantel's grow more slowly (slapping my palm to my forehead). I should've thought of that. I guess that's one Sans that would also benefit from lots of artificial light.

I've seen albinos of some species (not Sans) kept alive by remaining attached by rhizome to green tissue in another part of the plant. Will your Bantel's, or the leucistic offsets grow better if attached to Black Sport offsets (if you should be so lucky as to have leucistic sports and black sports at the same time on the same mother plant)?

I managed to find a photo of Bogor that someone uploaded from the book you have. Cool plant, but i do like the tighter, more upright habit of Bantel's. Sans are so addictive!

Thanks very much for offering to share your Bantel's and Black Sport. If you have extra, I'd love some, but I dont think I have anything to offer in trade. I'm just getting my plant collection started again. I have some rooted Aeonium arboretum 'Zwartkopf' cuttings, and some little Beaucarnea recurvata babies. Other than that, just small cuttings of various ordinary houseplants (pothos, philodendrons, green spider plants, Singoniums, and so forth).

BTW, the Whitney has a 2nd pup today, same size as the one in the photo. Astounding. There is so much heat under that plant when I first nuke the disc that I was almost sure I'd burn the lower roots. It's just a 3" pot. Doesn't seem to be the case though. It is a very happy plant. It makes me wonder just how much heat Sansevieria can really take. Would 115-degree soil make them grow better or worse than 90 degree soil? What if the air were also hot? I wish I had the room and resources to experiment with all this stuff! It's all so interesting.

Your word 'leucistic' is new to me. But yes, as long as an albino or highly variegated offset is still attached to the green primary plant, it will do just fine. A true albino with no chlorophyll will not live if cut away, the highly variegated ones will slow way down. Sometimes an albino plant will grow from the variegated portion of a leaf cutting, and those rules apply to this as well.

I'm no expert but I can't imagine a sans would do well at higher soil temps than 90.

No worries about a trade, just remind me when your weather is consistently warm.

Russ

Leucistic means partial absence of pigment (not albino, but dilute or patchy pigment), but my background is in wildlife science, and I might be wrongly applying the word to plants.

It's warm here (by Oregon standards). 70 today. We never did have winter this year, but it's probably best to let the route from FL to OR warm up a bit. I'd be so sad if they froze en route. That's so cool of you - but you realize you're enabling an addict, right? ;-)

Russ,

I have about 10 Bantel's right now and they seem to be growing well for me. I have purchased some that grew for a year or so then just rotted. Can only say the stock I now have is hardier than what I had. I notice some pups with more yellowish than white and never got Black sport. Do you have any pictures of yours. I may wish to have one.

The ones at the far left seem to have more yellow in the pups. They also bloomed thur the winter.

Erron, I meant to say 'The ones at the far RIGHT seem to have more yellow in the pups.

Yeah, I see that yellowish color on the right Stush. All excellently grown, by George I think you've got it figured out!! None of mine look that good.

That one against the near side of the community tray in the middle of the pic... looks like it's doing something different... I think I see solid green against a wide, white center. Or is that another variety?

I'll take some pics of Black Sports manana.

Russ

What you see is a lovely leaf. My saying, you can't judge a plant by one leaf. It is bordered by dark green molting with a clear white center. Great, but only one leaf and all the rest is more the normal ones. If only I get a pup like this!

Stush

They are still growing like weeds.

Hard to believe this is the same plant I first put on the heat in January/February. The new growth has mature coloration and is firm like an old leaf. That little cylinder of new growth has become real leaves

And here's the Whitney. It and the Moonshine don't get consistent heat. I put a heating disc under it several times per day whenever I remember. It cools off between discs, and overnight. Still, look at 'em grow! It is bursting the little pot.

This little pup outgrew it's container so I had to move it. I close the lid on this container at night, so I have to push the pup out sideways because it's too tall. Otherwise it'd be taller than the cutting it's growing from. I wonder why my pup doesn't have the nice, wide, grey banding that Tiffany/Purpleinopp gets on the new leaves of her wild type trifasciata. Mine seems very green in comparison. Doesn't seem like the fact that it's a Laurentii reversion would make a difference. Different lighting, maybe? Curious.

This Moonshine is heated on a disc alongside the Whitney. It isn't growing as fast as the Whitney, but then, it doesn't have as much chlorophyll either. It's also in coir or some similar medium. The Whitney is in soil. (The little Black Magic or whatever it is dwarf is in granite and DE grit, and the leaf cutting is in perlite). The Moonshine offset isn't the only new growth though. It's got new growth in the center of a rosette also.

(Upside-down! Seriously? Grrrrr.)

The one exception to a the lovely new growth on the heat pad is the Bantel's Sensation offset. I put it in with the dwarf in February, I think, thinking it'd start growing, but as of today, still no sign at all of growth. It is the only survivor of 4 similar offsets taken last summer. I know BS is a slow-grower, but this is crazy. I don't have much hope for its survival. Love the success with the others though!

Those look Great! When I bring my plants inside for winter, the really light color of the new pups darkens to match the color of the older leaves. If you scroll down through "roamin' rhizomes," you'll see they're all about the same color when they go back outside in the spring.

Finally! My last little Bantel's Sensation has some growth. It's small, but it is something. You have to look close. See the little spike in the center? In the 2nd photo there are two spikes. Finally!

Way to go!! I think it's feeling SPRING...

Russ

FYI - in case anyone is considering this and thinking of using special plant heaters, Jumps Start seedling starter heaters won't work. I bought a Jump Start windowsill heat mat beacause it seemed like a better deal than the ReptiTherm reptile heaters, but it just doesn't get warm enough for a pot. It's designed for shallow seed starters. The reptile heaters will cook the very bottom roots in a thin pot, but they heat a 4" pot through. The seedling heat mat barely makes just the very bottom of a pot slightly wRmer than my hand in a 60 degree room. I'll keep mine for starting leaves and seedlings, but I'll keep my Sans on the much hotter surface of reptile heaters (110 degrees vs. 75 degrees).

The Bantel's has really begun to take off, BTW. Finally. I think it probably needed time to first establish some decent roots. I'll load another photo later.

Down here in warm, humid Houston where the indoor temperature is almost always 71 to 75 degrees with lots of sunlight coming in the windows, Snake Plants seem to grow pretty rapidly. We've had ours just a few years and they have easily doubled in mass already. We're just using crummy, dense dirt from the back yard, in pots with no drainage, with no fertilizers.

All these Beautiful pictures of sans. Would it be called plant envy or plant lust?

Careful, Sans Envy is the first step to Sans Addiction. :-)

@S8US, have you noticed what time of year your Sans push up new plants/pups? They are purported to be summer-dormant in the northern hemisphere, but I suspect that growth is determined more by temperature than photoperiod.

So heat makes sans grow faster ???

Great to see your comment here Chris, hope your summer is going well. Massively hot here this summer, mid to high 90s for weeks. Be sure to let me know if you need any sans from my list (above, posted in Feb). Others here are also welcome to request, just let me know.

Off-topic, aroids always available to you as well. Your philo species ''oligospermum'' is a weed, growing very well and obviously loves the heat. But remind me, you have determined that it's NOT oligospermum?? I have actually forgotten what your original oligospermum looked like, so have lost the comparison and will have to rely on you as to what is what.

All the best, Russ

Thanks wood for the info

Yes, iceball, Sans like heat. If you live in a cool climate or keep your home cool, it appears you can still keep your Sans very happy by simply warming them. I like the Reptitherm heaters because they're a convenient size for individual plants and they get HOT (seed warmers aren't warm enough), but I'm sure there are many ways to heat a plant's roots. I haven't experimented long enough to be sure, but I suspect I'll be able to keep my Sans growing all winter with this method, even in my 55-60 degree apartment.

On top of an old-school TV used to be a nice, warm spot. My biggest complaint about flat screens, can't put anything on top of them.

Thanks kwie for the Suggestion

Forgive me for bringing up an old post, but with cool weather coming seems appropriate enough. I am going to try this with my little sans, and see how it does. Poor thing, made so many mistakes with it, the most recent being leaving it in a windowsill for a week mid summer and going out of town, the two cuttings that were doing great bit the dust, and just have a pup left. It seems healthy and is growing well, will give it heat for the winter and PIG over the summer.

I think you'll like the result. Remember to check the soil often because it dries out really fast this way. Also, depending on how hot your heat source is, you might lose some lower roots. My plants all seem to love the heat, but the roots don't grow into the bottom 1/2 to 1 inch of soil in my pots. I'm sure it's because it's just too hot (and maybe dry) that close the Reptitherm.

Good to know, I am currently rooting a number of hoyas on this too, will keep a close eye on them. The Hoya wont be on it long though, most of them at least.

kwie2011: Have any of your heating pads failed? How long do they last?

ReptiTherms are good, reliable heaters and should last years if you treat them right. Attach them to something stiff. They won't tolerate being bent back and forth like a medical heat pad. They're made to be stuck to the underside of a aquariums. Other heaters will work just as well, I'm sure. I also have seed warmers. They don't get nearly warm enough. And I use a microwaveable disk, but it has to be microwaved several times a day. Medical heat pads are warm enough, but newer ones shut off automatically after an hour.

Reptitherms are available in different sizes, which is nice. The small one could even be stuck to the side of a pot. Other reptile heaters like heat rocks and so on might work. I might even try adding top heat, like a thermal bulb or ceramic heater to see if that helps even more.

I worked for a herpetologist for many years, we kept nearly 200 reptiles and amphibians. In the 25 or so years of heating pad use, never had one fail. I have a couple leopard geckos who have used the same heat pad for a decade now since then, no issues. We did once have someone bring us a badly burned and disfigured ball python, it had a heating rock that shorted. Rocks I don't trust, but wouldn't be ideal for horticulture purposes anyways.

We still played it safe, and put a layer of ceramic tiles (unglazed, the cheap ones from Home Depot) on top to help transfer heat just as a precaution. Don't have any for my plant mat, probably will get some later if only out of habit.