Congratulations Phaedosia! I like many of the names suggested above.

My name, Vanessa, has literary roots. Jonathan Swift created Vanessa as a nickname for his female friend Esther Vanhormrigh. Swift wrote the poem Cadenus and Vanessa around 1714 and it first appeared in print in 1726.

I worked for many years in a Government Job Centre, where I had to both take people's details and call out their names, and my firm advice is to pick names that people can spell when they hear them and say when they see them.

My own name is Kathryn, which of course can also be spelt Katharine, Katherine, Catherine etc, etc, etc.

My sons are David and Alex (Alexander really, but he doesn't like that) and I thought they fit my criteria, but David once had a young girl write Dayvid!!!

Although most people in Australia have middle names, they seem to be rarely used. I often hear people called by both names in American TV programmes and films. It also seems that women often use their maiden name as a middle name after marriage.

My mother and her sister were both given their mother's maiden name as a middle name, although it isn't a usual given name, and it caused my mother some embarrassment.

That must have been the in thing to do 50 years or so. My middle name is my great aunts. Its very uncommon, sounds like a boys name, and I never ever use it. But oh if someone did, I would be so embarrassed.

In the Hispanic community, the children take the mom's last name for the middle, then the dad's last name. This can get very confusing, because some folks use just the last name on the records, others want both names recognized so they hyphenate it - Flores-Sanchez for example. If you don't know they did that, then you are wondering why you can't find this kids file under Sanchez, when its really under Flores. I also have one kiddo with his dad's last name, but his brother goes by his mom's last name. Ack!

Anyanka,

When I was at a girls' grammar school in Wales in the '50s, we had a competitive system of 'houses' which so many schools of that time had. Our houses were named after female literary and/or historical figures from our heritage: 'Rhiannon' (colour blue) was my house; then there was 'Gwenhwyfa' (Guinevere, Arthur's wife, colour yellow), Non (St David's mother - a raped nun, colour red) and Nest (the Helen of Wales - she had affairs with who knows how many high-ranking men, including a king of England. She was also abducted and held for months in somebody's castle.... The Welsh, instead of saying 'tut-tut Madam, behave yourself!' like the English might have done, have always been really very proud of her. A very spirited lady. Colour, green) Our school was very strait-laced and strict so their choice of role-models for the gals was really very eccentric! But they never told us who these women were, or encouraged us to research them - it was only years later that I found out.

Are there any names there that anyone fancies? Rhiannon, Gwenhwyfa, Non and Nest. (The most popular female Welsh name at the moment is 'Nia' which I don't think has any literary connections.)

Dido

I've always liked the feminine Welsh name Branwen or Bronwen, but a friend who had that name always said she hated it. I don't know, though, that it would work for anyone who isn't actually Welsh. I've known several non-Welsh Rhondas, however, and I think that's a quite nice name. I used to like Megan until it became too popular and was usually mispronounced (by Americans) and given some godawful alternate spellings -- a cousin of mine named her daughter Mayghan.

I never had the chance of choosing names for my children. In our traditional family, it was a foregone conclusion that they would be named for dead relatives (grandparents, in the case of my sons), and I relented. Thank heavens I didn't have daughters because the women in our family have some very unfashionable names; examples: Myrtle, Maudie, Mathilda (Aunt Matt), Dimple, Coqueaze(Aunt Queazy), and Fodie.

The males in our family didn't fare much better since we have a Gunther (Uncle Goon), Dieter (Uncle Deet), and Rema (who as soon as he was grown changed his name legally to initials only). Part of the problem with our German family names is Americans don't pronounce them correctly: My aunt Renate was tired of being called REE-nayt, so she changed the final "e" to an "a" and voila! the problem was solved. Uncle Gunther gave up and eventually called himself GUN/th/-er. Although none of the older members of the family ever would use that pronunciation, most of the younger ones do, even his grandson and namesake.

It doesn't matter what precautions you take, how foolproof you might try to make the name, people will still find a way to mispronounce, misspell, and otherwise mangle it.

I have a one-syllable, four-letter, very simple maiden name. People still mispronounce and misspell it. My middle name is Maria, and even though I emphasize that last syllable, people still manage to spell it Marie (even when I spell the name for them, they write it down wrong; there must be some mental opposition to that letter A on the end).

I chose an androgynous, uncommon name for my first daughter. I went the other route for my second daughter, and gave her a traditional/classic name. It's funny how you sometimes find yourself in a different sort of naming mood for each child.

Frieda, I had uncles Günther and Dieter plus an aunt Renate, too! Less surprising as this was in Germany, but nevertheless...

In my real life, face to face, almost none calls me Veronica...and for most of my life that was my choice...I'd been known by my nickname since infancy, except in elementary school where I was never very happy...so I kind of stuck by the nickname. Now, when someone calls me Veronica, it actually pleases me, and I sometimes introduce myself that way in new social groups, like a quilt group that I recently joined.

Oh, by the way, I share this name with my grandmother and mother...so there were three of us, but none of us ever were known as Veronica...all of us were Ronnie. Yuck! Oh, my daughter has another name...and my granddaughter who is named after me...they used my middle name.

I just wanted to thank everyone for all your comments. My husband and I have plenty to think about and my baby name notebook has quite a few entries. Don't worry, we'll let you know what we decide. Luckily, we still have quite a while.

Cheers!

I am new to this forum, but I wanted to jump in and offer my congratulations on your pregnancy. I have four kids and my husband and I took turns naming them. My choices had literary roots (Oliver and Phoebe), his (Spencer and Patrick) did not. However, he did want to name Oliver "Atticus", but I was afraid kids would shorten it to "addict". We considered "Finch" or "Finn" as an alternative. For my last child, I really wanted "Duncan Ryder", but my husband said no. We both loved the name Holden, but felt that Phoebe and Holden was not okay. Patrick became "Padders" and I love that it is so unique.
I also love the name Jane.
Jo

Both of my grandmothers were named Fanny, a name I love, but you couldn't possibly name a girl that now. Vail was a family name in my ex-husband's family, and we were going to name a child that I miscarried Vail whether it was a boy or girl. (It's part of the reason for my user name. Here in WV, Lacy or Lacey is a very old man's name, and I once suggested--as a joke, of course--that we name the baby Laceyvail.)

You do have to make sure first and last names match. My grandmother used to tell us about a girl she knew named Ming Toy Rabinowitz! Can you imagine that in the early 1900s! I've always loved the name Liam, but it would certainly sound strange followed by certain surnames.

In one southern tradition, I was named for two aunts. One name is Greek in origin, the other Judaic. When I was working full time, the two names seemed a mouthful for my co-workers and many never got it right. Around the time I turned 40, I decided to drop the 2nd name and go with only the first, which greatly simplified matters. My older friends know that my preference is for the initials of both names, as a nickname.

Having said that, I've always liked the names Alice and Allison. However, what I find most beautiful would be the spelling "Alysonne." (medieval, I think). Never had a chance to use either. I do think "Rhianna" is lovely.

In my mother's family, the last name was Ashworth. Unfortunately, this got shortened frequently to nicknames of "Ashes." Don't care for it, but I think "Ashleigh" has a nice sound to it.

I noticed with interest that the name "Piper Jane" has been mentioned a few times. My fourth grandchild was born September 21, 2006 and was named Piper Jane. I love it!

As a mother of six, I offer my advice: Make sure the child's name does not have initials that spell a word. Never call a child by his/her second name; it generates too much confusion. Try to stay away from having more than one child with the same initials. A letter addressed to J. Smith might find five recipients in the same household!

I'm jumping in late here but ....... CONGRATULATIONS!

As for the names, well, since I have no children (that I know of) and since I'm not likely to have any children any time in the near future I'm not sure if I can offer any names.

However, I should mention that I have relatives back home who have some rather unusual names. I know of brothers named Romulus and Remus. I have an uncle named after Erasmus. I have another relative named (and I kid you not) Pythagoras. There's someone in my family (well, extended family) named Minerva. I have a cousin named Penelope. Another cousin's named Emmanuel.

Oh, and I once had a classmate whose first name was Napoleon. I had another classmate whose first name was (again, I kid you not) Rommel. Yes, his father was in the military. I don't remember if these two guys were in the same class....

Anyway, those are some names you may want to consider. Now if you want to consider them as baby names to avoid or baby names to give, well .......

What an interesting discussion. The only thing I wish most fervently is that people would think of the poor little baby who will have to go thru life with a name that is trendy (too common when young and then dated, dated, dated), or so unusual that no one can spell it or pronounce it, or too geek-y or sexually ambiguous. I won't give examples so I don't hurt anyone's feelings!

New babies are being born into our extended family regularly at this time. I shudder when I hear the names discussed but of course must remain silent.

Classic names last and are not a burden to a child or adult. And there are so many of them that it should be easy for anyone to find one they like. And, not meaning to be controversial, but if you live in an English-speaking country, it probably works best to give the child a name that is easy for English speakers to pronounce and to spell.

Lastly (I promise), there have been all kinds of studies relating names to achievement level and even psychological health. The more unusual, the worse, on both counts.

I had no idea 34 years ago that Matthew would be so popular. There were 4 other Matts in my son's kindergarten and the name is still going strong!

When he was born there was no way I would have used Emma for a girl despite the fact that my ex and I each had a grandmother Emma. But I did encourage it for my grandaughter's name 8 years ago. And it zoomed to the top of the popularity charts the next year. But an Emma I know who's in her late 50's hates the name because it was SO old fashioned.

I've always hated my name, Janet. And NEVER call me Jan. It so dates me. I actually met a Janet in her 30's a while ago. Asked her how she got that name, her Mother's best friend , of course!

I think for girls the name has to skip at least one generation to be in favor. What's the age of the youngest Linda or Cindy you know? Boys names, on the other hand, seem to stay in favor forever. (Not many Georges right now, though) Not that there aren't some trendy ones.)

Just wanted to give you all an update. . .Jane Marie was born on July 5th and is doing wonderfully! We are already reading to her. She seems to be partial to Good Night Moon and The Napping House. But that's probably just wishful thinking on my part, as we are trying to convince her that sleeping all night is a good thing. She's 11 weeks now and the first night she slept for 6 hours straight we were ready to throw a party.

Haven't had as much time for reading as I would like, but someone gave me a copy of Operating Instructions: A Journal of My Son's First Year by Anne Lamott. I totally identified! I even made my poor husband read it.

Anyways, hope to be checking in to RP more. These babies sure keep you busy, though!

Oh, Phaedosia! Congratulations, and great to see you post. You'll probably have Good Night Moon memorized (if you don't already). Pretty name, too. I didn't read much when my children were infants. Other people seem to have babies that actually sleep and let you read -- my children had other plans for me. It all works out, no matter what disposition they are born with. Good luck!

Congratulations on Jane Marie's arrival!
I can remember the only time I had to read when my sons were babies was while I was feeding them, and I can even remember what I read - it was James Herriot, because the stories were short and it could be easily put down and picked up again *g*

Hope to see you around here again soon.

How wonderful, Phaedosia, and I'll bet that Jane Marie is beautiful. Congratulations. I can't help but tear up a little thinking about some of the books I used to read to my daughter.

Mazel Tov!

Congratulations!!! I am so glad you went with "Jane" - it is a lovely name. One of the characters in Edward Eager's children's books is named Jane - be sure to introduce her to those when she is a little older.

You will have Goodnight Moon memorized soon. lol. I remember with my oldest we could recite it from memory to lull him to sleep.

I, too, loved Operating Instructions. Her son, Sam, was born 6 months before my son, David, and I read the book when it first came out and I so identified with everything in it. And I love that she is so honest about parenting. I've read her books since and I love it when she writes about Sam - it provides me with realistic touchpoints for my relationship with David. lol. Her latest book had a story that helped me through a difficult time with my now (sometimes difficult) 16-year-old. The beauty is that this time I gave him the story to read too.

Enjoy every moment (even the 3AM-tearing-your-hair-out ones) with Jane Marie. They are precious.

Congratulations! Lovely name.

Yes, congratulations. My only child is a daughter whom I named Lisa Rae way back before every third girl child was named Lisa. Rae was after her father, Raymond. She later met another Lisa Rae and said to her, "I'll bet your dad is named Raymond," to which the girl replied in astonishment, "How did you know that?"

Here is a poem for you:

PRAYER FOR A LITTLE GIRL
by Ann Osborne

Now I lay her down to sleep;
I pray Thee, Lord, her soul to keep.
I pray Thee, Lord, her beauty guard
As violets in a grassy yard.

I pray Thee, keep her goodness bright
As little finches in their flight.
God bless her wants; let her design
Them into ways that follow Thine.

All this I ask for Christ's own sake,
Before her soul again You take.
May she bend over a small bed
And pray with joy, as I have prayed.

A beautiful name for a beautiful baby! Best wishes for the times ahead and your new life together!

Congratulations! Enjoy all those wonderful children's books you have waiting for you. You chose a beautiful name.

Thanks for your kind words, everyone. I am going to print out this thread for her baby book! I loved the poem, Carolyn, it gave me goosebumps. And bwilliams, I haven't read Lamott's latest yet, but I did go out and buy Operating Instructions for myself since I figure it will warrant a re-reading in a few months.

Before long, Jane will be posting on this site, too!

I think Athena is a beautiful name, a greek classic, and if you've read Coming Home by George Davis you'll know it, speaking of which how about Loveday! x

Nothing to do with baby names, but how did this thread end up on page one?

I wondered about that too!

I noticed this a few days ago and couldn't understand how it had 'arrived' with no comment/reply added.
Since this post first appeared nearly 7 years ago (!) our granddaughter, now two, was named Emma Rose while at almost the same time two other couples had daughters who they named Emily Rose and Edith Rose.
Friends have named their sons Jago and Tor and another couple have Bailey and Lacey (can't remember which is the boy and which the girl!)
The most popular names taken from The Times 'Birth Announcement' column (therefore up-market/top of the range) are Amelia and Harry while at the 'lower' end come Jayden and Chardonnay.

Vee, Rose seems to be a popular second name, I have a GGD named Charlie Rose. My other GD has opted for simple names for her girls, Lucy and Mabel, which has amazed everyone as names in Australia at present are very creative or based on favourite singers and other personalities.
Many years ago a lady used to make a note of the names published in the West Australian newspaper, where at that time everyone in this State put their birth notices. She would give an annual top ten list of each sex favourites. Now not so many people bother to publish. They seem to put it on Facebook!

Oh no! Chardonnay? That was a joke name selected by a TV character in a show called Kath and Kim. They were what we call bogans, and what I think the British call chivs (?)

Kath. my DD uses to love Kath and Kim. Your bogans are what we call chaves, which I think originally was an old word of contempt by gypsies for 'lower class' gypsies. Even the word gypsy has to be used with caution these days as they prefer to be called 'traveller'. 'Traveller' is what the Irish used to call 'tinkers'. A woman has recently been sued by a 'traveller' who overheard her use the term 'gypo'. It really is a social minefield out there.
My long dead grandmother would have called them all common and looked at them as though they had crawled out of a drain. ;-)
Now, where did I put my white stilettos, micro skirt and very over-stated gold earrings?

Oh, Vee , being called common was dreadful and almost as bad as "no better than she should be" a saying that had me puzzled as a child but when I asked my grandmother what it meant she was at a bit of a loss to explain it.
It really makes little sense!
Your sartorial description sounds like an "Essex Girl". I actually met a couple of them when I was on holiday there and they were lovely, kind and thoughtful hostesses to our group of pensioners.

Okay......what is a "bogan" ?

Is a "bogan" and a "chav" what Americans would call "trailer park trash"?

I have no patience with those who give babies weird names after obscure places. e.g. I have friends who named their little son "Edisto" after an island in South Carolina. We all know it will be ultimately shortened to "Ed", so what's the point?

Does anyone know or have ideas why Grace has became a current favorite name, usually given as a second or middle name? I now have six baby Graces in my family and circle of friends and acquaintances. I think it's a lovely name, but it seems to have re-emerged after a hiatus of several decades and I've wondered why.

My granddaughter (who will be three next month) is Abigail Rose Marie. American parents don't typically give their offspring more than two forenames. More out of curiosity than anything else, I asked my son and D-I-L why they chose Rose Marie instead of Rosemarie, as it is often spelt. I don't think I was sarcastic or disparaging, but they didn't appreciate the question. And they sure didn't like it when I commented on our Abby's initials being ARMS! I told them they better get used to such comments because mine wasn't going to be the only one. :-(

Frieda, Grace has also become very popular over here. I had two elderly (though I suppose they were young once) G Aunts called Grace and they were born in the 1870's.
Other Victorian names are coming back into fashion . .for girls Mabel, Maisie, Violet and Florence; and boys Alfie, Albert, Wilfred and Stanley. What goes around comes around but they will take some getting used to.

Mary I don't think a chave is quite 'trailer park trash' partly because 'trailer parks' are very thin on the ground in the UK and are often lived in by elderly people and chaves are not necessarily 'poor'. In fact they probably spend quite a bit on clothes, make-up, 'bling', tattoos and vast quantities of booze which they swill down by the bucketful at the w/end as their understanding of a good time is to get totally 'wasted' (ie blind drunk) before the pubs/clubs close. In the 'good old days' they were swept off the pavements by the police and locked up in the cells for the night until they sobered up. Now, thanks to Health and Safety regs they are taken to hospital where they clog up the A&E depts., abuse the staff and cost the hard-pressed NHS vast amounts of time and money.
My goodness I sound like a grumpy old woman (I can hear the DH saying "Sound like? You are."
Ann I'm sure when sober these girls can be as nice as anyone . . . and chavs are nearly always girls. I suppose the boys are the types that wear their trousers several inches lower than their underpants plus a backward baseball cap, swagger a lot . . . and hold their girlfriends round the neck . . .

Vee, I thought maybe there was a current pop idol, actor, or celebrity of some sort named Grace. I figure the parents aren't remembering Grace Kelly. I was also puzzled by the sudden emergence (to my mind) of the name Bella until I found out it is the name of a character in The Twilight book and movie series. But you're probably right: it is just the recycling of names -- everything old is new again. I haven't run across a baby Florence yet, but it's probably just a matter of time. I'm afraid that any boy named Wilfred would be given a lot of grief in the US, but perhaps not -- it might just be the next trend for all I know.

The US has a lot of 'chavs' but they're just not called that in Americanese. Offhand, I can't think what they're called except 'people with bad taste' or 'people whose taste is all in their mouths' or 'people who think if a little is good, a lot must be better' (they don't comprehend understatement, that less may be more).

I now have baby step-great-grandchildren (sister and brother) named Izabella and Jasper Wolfe, which I am told are names from the Twilight series. Izabella is called Bella, but it's enough to traumatize poor little Jasper. (I suggested to my husband that we call him Wolfie.)

Vee, yes the old fashioned names do sound a bit odd. My GD's doctor, enquiring what the baby girl's name would be, started to laugh at "Mabel". He was expecting something exotic, I expect.
This is another modern aspect of choosing a name in that the sex is often known in advance.
I was surprised too but managed to hide my thoughts and just asked why she had chosen that name. She had heard it on a TV show!

I think there's a benefit to choosing/rediscovering an old fashioned name -- it's still a bit unusual, but people can spell and pronounce it. The newest babies in our extended family are named Vivian, Rose, and Fiona, names that are traditional but not very common.

I've been the family genealogist for a while now, and both moms of the aforementioned girls asked for a list of historical family names, which in turn got us into some howlers from the 1600s .... I can't imagine anyone naming a child Hate-Evil, Remember, or Freelove (seriously).

Gotta love those Puritans! For more, er, "unusual" baby names, see below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Puritan baby names

My mother (born 1904) was named Thelma Grace Ashworth.

I've noticed a resurgence of the name Ashley for girls in the US, recently. And as well, Irish-derived names, such as Erin are now quite popular for girls in America.

Oh, Sheri, I can't imagine 'Fly-Fornication' being called anything but 'Fly'? And the Puritans are often said to have no sense of humor! Loved the link and will save it in my favorites. Thanks.

I have a friend who in the 1970s named her sons Ashley and Shannon. (Ashley from Ashley Wilkes in GWTW and Shannon from I don't know where.) She had no idea at the time that those names were trending to the feminine. The boys were teased for having 'girly' names and both, as soon as they could, adopted the more masculine diminutives: Ash and Shay. I have known a male Jocelyn, a Beverley, an Evelyn, and a couple of Marions who found their names co-opted for females only. It left the poor guys embarrassed. They call themselves Jos, Biv, Lyn, Mike and Bud.

Girls, on the other hand, who are given what once were considered masculine names have an easier time. Half the time I can't tell by their names what the gender of the bearer is. I was perplexed when Madison began to be used for girls. To me the /son/ part indicated a male but apparently that's no longer a good indicator. I found out that Madison for girls became popular after a mermaid played by Daryl Hannah in the film 'Splash' gave herself the name from a street sign that said Madison Avenue or some such. Come to think of it, I always thought of the name Daryl as being masculine. Are most Daryls these days female? I haven't met a male Allison in a long time.

The name Caitlyn is very popular in the US, usually pronounced and sometimes spelt Kate Lynn. I was corrected by an Irish acquaintance when I mistakenly pronounced her daughter Caitlyn's name the American way. She informed me that it is Kat-leen (or as Americans would spell it, Kathleen, and say it using the /th/ thorn sound). I sometimes find it amusing when people have a name from a certain ethnicity that they obviously aren't. There's absolutely nothing wrong with mixing ethnic names, but I'm often confused by it and wonder how on earth, say, Carlos Llewellyn Swiderski got his name?

In a shop once I overheard a young mother correcting her small children, one a boy and one a girl, by calling, "Cody and Dakota, come here." I was at a loss to know which was which.

When a relative said that she was naming her daughter Bonnie and she already had a boy named Ashley, I smiled and commented that she must be a fan of Gone with the Wind. She looked blank and asked what that was! She changed her mind anyway to Chelsea. My English mother asked why the baby was being named after a football club!

When I was growing up I knew a family of three girls called Faith, Hope, and Charity. Their last name was rather long and definitely Italian so it was a little jarring but rather pretty.

Ann, my late Mother gave much the same response when told that a friend of mine (living in Canada) was calling her daughter Chelsea. "Why call a baby a name like that? You might as well call it Hammersmith or Fulham or any other London Borough."

I have a forebear from the 1830's named 'Obedience', though I doubt very much that they were Puritans or even what we call over here 'Non Conformists'. That side of the family were very 'down-to-earth' so much so that when my brother was looking through newspaper records trying to find the death of a GGGrandfather, on seeing someone with the 'right name' he noticed that the man had been described as a leading light in the local Temperance Movt and a pillar of the Sunday School. He commented "Definitely not the George Rose we are looking for."

Vee, I know a woman whose given names are May Fair -- two words -- but I asked her anyway if the inspiration was London's Mayfair. She said yes, that her mother just liked the way it sounded. Parents who aren't into traditional naming probably go by what they perceive as 'pleasant sounding', more often than not. Of course what is 'pretty' or 'pleasant' to one person may be fingernails on a chalkboard to another. It may be apocryphal, but Oprah Winfrey once told a story about a mother with twin girls who had come up with what she thought were beautiful-sounding names, Regina and Vagina. She was gently persuaded that the second name might not be appropriate no matter how euphonious the sound. I can't imagine anyone being that ignorant but Oprah told it as a true story.

I have a problem with some names because I've known loathsome persons who possessed them. It's unfortunate when a relative or friend waxes enthusiastic about such-and-such name and all I want to do is wince and exclaim "Oh no!" My son and D-I-L came up with a boy's name that makes my bile rise. I'm glad the baby is a girl, and I'm happy to report that the boy's name has since fallen out of favor. Whew!