Nope. I clicked on the link, searched all around the website and did not see the list anywhere that you have very kindly posted above. That was a lot of trouble for you and I thank you very much! The list is full of interesting suggestions--thanks.

Chris, I think I see what happened tho I can't explain it. I had clicked on the link in my email box and got Rick Steves' website for his tours. When I just now clicked on the link in Reader's Paradise, I got the list you just posted. Don't have the computer skills to explain why.

I,Claudius the TV series is incredible. I was still remembering bits of info from it when we were on our trip to Rome, and when we returned we watched the entire series again with new eyes. Definitely recommended (I was never able to make it through the book, not sure why)

>Travelers' Tales: Italy - Ann Calcagno

Took this on our trip; quite good (most of the ones in this series are)

Although I don't watch TV I did rent the series "ROME" and found myself deeply immersed, not just in the decent storyline, but the Characters and Scenery as well.
If youÂre looking for an account of the BCE period, this will give you some visual as well.

I just got back from Italy yesterday myself, having spent a week of my trip in Rome. If you have the time, consider taking a day trip out to Ostia Antica, the ancient port of Rome. This vast archeological complex gives you the feeling of daily life in ancient Rome in a different way than do the ruins in the city of Rome itself.

Rosefolly

Robert Harris (of Pompeii fame) just came out with a new book called Imperium.

This summer I read Rubicon: The Last Years of the Roman Republic by Tom Holland and The Colosseum by Keith Hopkins and Mary Beard, which is THE book to read if you are planning to tour it.

Ditto on Ostia Antica. I found it more interesting than Pompeii (which I loved) and much less touristy

If you are a history buff, also visit Tarquina, which is where several tombs of the Estruscans (pre Roman) were located. You can go into the tombs and see the incredible murals inside, and marvel at how present day some of those 2500 year old pictures seem.

Oh, my husband and I kept seeing the adverstisments for Rome, but never saw any local listing. Was it just on HBO? and is it available on DVD?

What a lot of good suggestions. Thank you, thank you. We are definitely going to Pompeii as a day trip. How far are Ostia Antica and Tarquinia from Rome by public transportation? We will not have a car.

If you start NOW, you can read Colleen McCullough's whole series on Rome. It is terrific--had me really pulling for Julius Caesar to live at the end.

Ostia is about a 30 min train ride from town by metro. Tarquina is farther north, but easily visited by train (btw, there are several other towns of interest around Tarquina, and one is particular has a magnificent Estrustcan Museum. Lemme see if I can find which one)

We took a half-day bus tour to Ostia Antica, which meant we had a guide. We did the same to go to Hadrian's Villa and the Tivoli Fountains (another wonderful thing to see).

Rosefolly

We avoid tours unless we have no choice. We much rather explore on our own, and the fun thing about Ostia was that we could; we got into nooks and crannys I don't think others could see.

Many people dislike tours. For the most part I have had good luck with them, courteous, knowledgeable guides who pointed out things I would have missed on my own, and time enough to wander off when I wanted to. They have also allowed me to get places I would not have seen on my own, since I am reluctant to drive in some areas. In Rome for example, crossing the street seemed a risky activity!

On the other hand, I have certainly heard enough stories of bad tours to make me understand the other point of view.

Rosefolly

Rosefolly, I have to ask. Any tours or tour guides of Rome and nearby environs you'd recommend?

Ginny, not a book but some suggestions for visiting Rome in today's 'Sunday Times' here in the UK.

Here is a link that might be useful: Things to see in Rome.

Thanks a lot, Vee. Great article and great tips. I am printing it this minute.

One problem I have had in planning this trip is that tours for first-time visitors are planned around an hour here and an hour there--and that's not how I want to see anything. Too superficial and rushed for my tastes. More in-depth tours are for people who have been there several times and have seen the main sights already.

There doesn't seem to be a first-timer's tour for someone who wants to spend an entire day at the Vatican Museum, for example, which is little enough. So I'm planning it myself and am more than a bit nervous about it--different language, customs etc. Hence the need for as much reading as possible.

Ginny, are you familiar with SLOWTRAVEL site?
It is very reputable and contains a wealth of information on 'taking your time' travel, with an unapologetic focus on Italy.

Re Books...This summer I read A Walk In Ancient Rome by John Cullen, a 'travelogue' of ancient Rome juxtaposed with the modern cityscape. Clever and easy to follow.

On my TBR, a collection of short stories set in Rome written by Canadian expat, Megan Williams, titled Saving Rome.

Basilica: The Splendor and the Scandal: Building St. Peter's by R. A. Scotti

Enjoy your planning!

Here is a link that might be useful: SLOWTRAVEL

>In Rome for example, crossing the street seemed a risky activity!

Hee, really!

>More in-depth tours are for people who have been there several times and have seen the main sights already.

No, they really aren't. If you are a reader, and know some history, and are eager to learn, these are wonderful. The hour long ones I don't think teach you anything, and are nothing but rushed (some exceptions - guides in specific churches or sites)

While I don't like group tours, I do appreciate good guides. When we are in a new city we check with the tourist info place for local guides/tours. We went on one that was an underground tour - took us exploring under two churches to see the sites of the church it was built on, the Roman streets under that, and the Mitrah temple near by. Absolutely fascinating (and of course I can't remember which churchs - but Rome is filled with these gems)

Another local tour, not Rome, that we absolutely adored was in near Hadrian's wall. No way for us to see it on our own without a tour. We found a small group tour run by a delightful couple, professors from a nearby college, who took us on an all day excursion to see the forts and the wall. Absolutely splendid experience, and it didn't cost all that much!

BTW, I do understand the need and desire for group tours and don't put anyone down for enjoying them. They are just not our cup of tea. And I admit sometimes I've been someplace where a tour guide was speaking, and got interested enough to easedrop :)

I agree about Slowtravel - when we were planning our trip to France we started using it (then we didn't go) but its still bookmarked for when we do!

Yes, thanks, I recently discovered the slowtravel site thru several references on tripadvisor.com, also a useful source of info for travel. Slowtravel looked like a site for people intending to rent and stay for long periods but I must not have looked too carefully. I bookmarked it and will go back and study it further.

Ah, Hadrian's Wall. Someday, I hope. I would love to do a tour of Roman Britain. I went to Bath in June and spent a good long time at the Roman baths and it was absolutely riveting. They've done an excellent job of providing information and interpretation there. And I brought home some good books on the subject.

I haven't had any experience with them but have read about Scavi walking tours in Rome that people have really liked. Google gives a lot of hits on them.

Ginny the language will not be a problem for you. Almost everyone in Rome who interacts with tourists speaks reasonable English. My husband took a couple semesters of Italian and practiced daily with language CDs for months. No one would let him use his Italian because their own English was so much better. (He was keenly disappointed.)

I second CindyDavid's suggestion to get a guide for specific sites. That is what I meant when I said we used a tour. Tom and I were in Rome on our own, but used a couple of quick half day tours with a guide to get to places we could not reach on our own.

On the other hand I have gone on real tours that pleased me very much though. A few years ago we went hiking in Peru with a company called Imagine Tours (they usually do bicycle tours). More recently we went hiking all over the South Island of New Zealand with a company called Active New Zealand. Both were excellent experiences greatly enhanced by the groups we were with and the guides who led the groups.

Rosefolly

Carolyn, As far as I can tell, the Scavi tour is a specific tour of the archaeological site underneath St. Peter's. It includes Roman ruins and the very possible burial site of St. Peter himself. The tour is very hard to get. They only take a tiny number--I read 120--people a day and getting a ticket is extremely complicated. But it's supposed to be a terrific experience.

And, Rosefolly, I too have been on good tours--just can't find one for Rome. I do think we will do as you suggest and get a guide here and there for specific sites. But I am a "slow tourist". I read every label and am always behind the group--or lose track of them altogether.

I am reading up a storm. There is so much to see in Rome. It will be very hard to make the final decisions about what to exclude.

I thought of another (out-of-print) book, and that is North from Rome by Helen MacInnes. She wrote terrific spy, wicked Nazi, love interest, mysteries.

> Almost everyone in Rome who interacts with tourists speaks reasonable English.

Wellllll - that wasn't our experience. I spent 6 months working on a basic vocabulary. If a bus driver or ticket agent didn't know English, I tried my halting Italian and they looked at me like I had three heads. we encountered way too many folks working with tourists who either didn't know the language, or pretended not to. Rather frustrating really.

This was not the case outside of Rome, where often people were very eager to practice and use their english and were very patient with beginners in their language.

> Almost everyone in Rome who interacts with tourists speaks reasonable English.

I've since heard that from others, too, so your experience is not unique. Perhaps ours was!

Rosefolly

Bumping this up for further helpful input about books or anything else related to visiting Rome. It is a city of so many historical and artistic layers that it seems a whole library could be built around them. Rosefolly, I would love to know who your tour guide was for Ostia Antica etc.

Rome Rome Rome Naples Naples Florence Venice Rome Florence Venice Naples Rome Rome
Rome Rome Rome Rome Rome Rome Naples Florence Venice Venice Rome Rome Rome

Stopt it!

There are not only these four cities in Italy!!!!!!!!!!!

WeÂre starting to call them 'the supermarket of the tourism'
the tourist malls!!!!

Just kidding of course

IÂm Italian and I like and love them all.

IÂve never been to Naples and IÂve been to Venice only twice, last time I was eight, more or less.
IÂve always deemed Rome the most beautiful city in the world. More than Paris and London (Veer ,
Martin and othesr, please forgive me)
Rome has only one big difect, in my opinion; there are really a great deal of romans linving over there
:)

but now just let me take advantage of this thread to promote my city : Genoa.

I know , I know , I know, itÂs less famous than the former ones and is rather rough to go trought it,
besides we are not so cheerful as Romans and Tuscanies are (we are wild and undomesticated, not
even ancient Romans succeded to tame us) here in Italy we are called 'grumbling'
But Genoa is the 'Resorgimental city' Giuseppe Mazzini was born here , as well as Nino Bixio
...others. Garibaldi was born not so far from here, 'I Mille - The One Hundreds - the Red Jackets'
sailed from here to land in Sicily and make Italy a whole, a true nation after so long time.

Genoa is little, yes, but cozy, you donÂt have to ...walk walk walk and walk, take buses ,
undergrounds , spinning here and there back and forth all the day long to see wonderful buildings,
museums , eat delicious food and , of course, drink unbelieveble wine, and at the end of the day, may
be, you would find that we are not so 'no-cherful!'and so wild and undomesticated and even in our
chest thereÂs a heart bumping

Sorry I think IÂve not been very useful for your quest, but at the moment I canÂt remember any
books or movies set in Rome, nor set in Genoa

grelobe

p.s. I wonder. Since itÂs been a long time I havenÂt been posting here, has my English got worse?

all my best to whom still remember of me and to who not.

Here is a link that might be useful: the best way to discover Genoa

Cindy, I think the Roman church with several layers may have been the Basilica di San Clemente.

Grelobe, the only Italian cities I have visited are Genova, Napoli and Milano. 15 years ago a friend and I were planning to go to Rome and took Italian evening classes for over a year when my friend told me one evening that she was pregnant with her first child, (at 43, after having been married for 19 years, divorced and found a new man) so she couldn't go with me. I remembered a little of that Italian in Milan and Stresa last year.

Martin, thats it. There are a few others outside Rome as well.

Grelobe, there is a very good reason why Rome Florence Venice Naples is first on most travelers list - the art work, the architecture are splendid examples of perfection, and the age of the place is haunting. I have visited all of those cities, and loved them (tho I have to admit the one I'd return to is Venice). You will be happy to know, however, that the next time I am in Italy, I will be visiting other places less well known. And Genoa, well, the Shakespeare reference always made me interested in going, so that will probably be on the list.

grelobe, your English is fine don't worry about it. I don't know your country but as you probably have noticed besides the hoards of US tourists it has become very popular with the English who like to take villas in Tuscany and Umbria for the summer. Our Prime Minister is a good eg. especially if he is able to borrow one from an aristocrat or a pop star.
You were going to tell us about your walking trip in the Alps. Now that is the sort of holiday that would suite me rather than time spent in hot tourist-filled cities.

You were going to tell us about your walking trip in the Alps. Now that is the sort of holiday that
would suite me rather than time spent in hot tourist-filled cities

my stars ! what a memory youÂve got veer; I was about to tell you about my walking trip last August,
five months ago.

Anyway everything was fine, weather and place. We went to Valle dÂAosta at the feet of Mount
Cervino , the third highest peak in Italy and Europe that also is the board between Italy and
Switzerland. Besides my daughter and my friendÂs sons are getting older, not that old of course. Nine,
seven and six, so we can make longer hike without being harassed every fifteen minutes (water, food,
tiredness), and theyÂre starting to be quite curious about trees , land and...stones. Once we met a
geologist student who was taking same samples and testing them with, I donÂt know what kind of
acid, aftermath they started to play pretending to be geologist and wetting rocks and stones with
dripping sticks all day long.
We came back over there a few weeks ago, itÂs not far-away from Genoa , two hours and an half
drive, and we went to a little village Cheney that can be reached only by feet, no more than ten
minuts through a wood, and my wife and I are thinking to buy snowshoes in order to hike also in
winter, we saw a lot of people wearing them and we got quite envious.

grelobe

a mount Cervino picture
http://it.geocities.com/hotelbich/immagini/cervino1.jpg

Here is a link that might be useful: cheney

There may be many tourists to deal with--but Roma! The eternal city! Full of history, of empires risen and fallen, the greatest art in the world, pasta, passion! No wonder it draws people from every corner of the world. The crowd is worth it.

Great photo, grelobe. Thanks for sharing.

Back to books! I can not recommend That Fine Italian Handstrongly enough for ANYONE going to Italy. Hofman is/was an American married to an Italian and they lived in Italy. The book explains so much about the contradictions of Italy. It is wonderful.

My trip draws closer--early April--and I am cross-eyed from reading, thanks to so many of you here and elsewhere. I just finished two "light" reads that I'd think many would enjoy.

One is a mystery by Ngaio Marsh, "When in Rome". It is set in Rome and is riveting as a mystery as well as for its Roman setting, much of which is at the church of San Clemente with its many layers of secret spaces.

The other is Jonathan Harr's "The Lost Painting", the non-fiction account of the search for a missing Caravaggio. He integrates the dramatic life of Caravaggio with the contemporary search by art sleuths for one of his long-missing masterpieces.

Funny, I just received a book from a friend who knows how much I like Barbara Hodson (Tatooed Map and other illustrated novels. This book is "Italy out of hand: a capricious tour" The book is filled with oddities and interesting historical tidbits, as well as glorious photos and other media. Check it out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Italy out of hand

Angels and Demons, the prequel to DaVinci Code is set in Rome. Well, Rome and the Vatican. Lots of geographic and architectural details among the mysteries and violence. And it is violent. And sometimes hard to believe. But the geographic and architectural details are interesting.

sorry ccrdmrbks but I must dissent from your post.
In Angel and Demons , I read There are tons of roads, squares and so on misplaced , the characters turn one corner and suddenly they find themselves in a completeley different part of Rome. Let aside historical date or monument buildders or artist work of art.
They say Angel and Demons is even worse than The Da Vinci Code where Dan Brown misplaced historical facts dates and so on to support his thesis
It can be that his plot are riveting and his books are , turn-pages, but don't say that geographic and architectural details are interesting, because ten times out of ten they are either wrong or made up

grelobe

p.s. I'm not catholic.
I add this, because here in Italy there has been a very long and (in my opinion) silly dispute.
Catholic vs etars-priest, Bishops and priest wanted "litteraly" burn the book, the latters would say tinghs like..."oh it's time someone has the dare to say the truth about ...."and so on.
But I think when a book is bad detailed , it is merely bad detailed, and it's a matter of fact that Dan Brown books are not accurate , and that's is not a matter of opinion

I dropped Angels and Demons after the first few pages, after the ridiculous description of the CERN headquarters in Geneva. It was completely made up. It is obvious that Brown has never visited the place. I have, and lost interest in the book.

I only managed 2 pages of Angels and Demons which I had planned to read while waiting for a library copy of The Da Vinci Code which had been recommended here at RP.
Those pages should have told me how dreadful the DVC was going to be. I only turned the pages hoping that the next one was going to be less terrible than the last.

grelobe, thanks for your candid opinion re Brown's work, which I read with suspended judgement.

Ah, Italia, one of my favorite countries. I am probably the only person here who did not like Rome. However, I adored Venice, all of Tuscany, Ravenna, Assisi, Pisa,Bologna, and Ischia. Not to mention skiing in the Dolomites. If you get a chance to travel to Ravenna, don't miss the mosaics in the Basilica of San Apollonaire!

For light reading, I enjoyed Tim Parks' "Italian Neighbors."

There are a number of places on the internet that debunk Dan Brown's fantasies, page by page. The depressing thing is that so many people--not here, of course!--read these works of complete fiction and take it as fact. Twas ever thus, I guess.

Ginny, regarding your interest in 19th century expats in Italy, have you read anything by Englishwomen, Margaret Isabella Collier (Countess Galletti di Cadilhac)?

I am trying to locate a copy of her book Our Home on the Adriatic.

Her brother was John Collier, the pre-Raphaelite painter. She and her Italian husband lived in a villa near Fermo, located slightly south of Recanati which you may remember from Jonathon Harr's book The Lost Painting .

Now back to Rome which is both exhilarating and exhausting, I love it!!

No, I haven't, Mummsie, but will keep an eye out for it. Sounds delightful. Last night I started "Roma Beata" by Maud Howe, daughter of Julia Ward Howe and part of a seemingly enormous circle of Americans resident in Europe either permanently or temporarily. They all knew each other, it seems. This one is early 20c, occasionally patronizing, but very vivid pictures of Rome and the Romans at that time. Got it thru ILL.

I know his theories are a mishmash of cloudy thinking, warped theology and historical innacuracies...but HE MOVED BUILDINGS? What a dweb.

His theories are actually not new - thats whats so darn frustrating. I have read similar theories by better writers, and found them interesting, certainly thought provoking. He treats them as fact, which is troublesome.

Whats funny is that even tho I think he's a terrible writer, it was a page turner for me. I think it was towards the end when things got too convuluted that I screamed 'enough'. I was surprised that it took such a hold. And very surprised how many people read this as non fiction.

I apologizes if I have been a little rude, may be, I should have written "I have to dissent" Instead of
" I must", but the fact is, that I know badly one language, my own (Italian) and I know a few words
of another one (English)
besides I forgot to say that, when I read The da Vinci Code, I, like Cindy, enjoied it , but it was clear
to me that....ok Cindy has already said the same thing I want to say

it was a page turner for me. I think it was towards the end when things got too convuluted that I screamed 'enough'. I was surprised that it took such a hold. And very surprised how many people read this as non fiction.

Anyway I want also back Woodnynph2 advice about Tim Parks, he is a really good judge of Italian behaviour, I've only read his non fiction books, because his novels are a little too intelectual for my poor education

grelobe

p.s. of course one Brown's book...is enough

Here is a link that might be useful: Tim Parks non fiction books and other

Like Cindy, I have seen Brown's theories elsewhere, and understood they were a combination of myth, legend, longing and disparate facts forced together to fit an artifical framework. That being said, I don't mind the occasional summer thriller in which "our hero" defies all odds and survives battles when he singlehandedly holds off 5 men with machine guns by wielding a six-shooter from behind a rock....I just suspend disbelief and hold on for the ride. But to set it in a real place and then rearrange the place to suit the plot...nononono. That annoys me.

"A particular interest would be memoirs of Americans or British people who lived in Rome"

Ginny, have you put the Protestant Cemetery in Rome on your itinerary?

Thanks for mentioning ILL re Margaret Collier.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rome's Protestant Cemetery

Just brought this up for anyone interested in Naples or who has maybe visited there for a holiday. I have read some good reviews about Roberto Saviano's book Gomorrah that has recently been translated into English.
It deals with the underworld activities of the Camorra the N equivalent of the Mafia. It is scary to think part of every £$ of tourist money probably goes towards supporting this organisation and goes some way to explain the corruption that exists in the area on a scale we can hardly comprehend.
I understand Saviano has had to go into hiding since writing this book.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gomorrah