Heh! Janalyn, that very same line threw me when I was reading "The Zanzibar Chest" too. You know I'm not British, but I managed to figure out everything but the "turd knocking." Let me find my notes.~~~~~~~~To stook, according to my dictionary, is gathering sheaves of corn (corn can be wheat, maize, or any other kind of grain on long stalks) and fashioning them into bundles that are then stood upright on their cut ends. These are sometimes called "shocks," as in shocks of corn.~~~~~~~~Clamps are temporary storage places for root crops, such as turnips, mangles, swedes, and potatoes. Pits are dug in the fields where the crops are harvested, usually, or in some other handy location. The crops are piled into the pits and then covered over with the earth excavated from the pits. These clamps can be up to 2 metres tall.~~~~~~~~Topping and tailing is the action of cutting off the top leaves and sprouts (topping) and cutting off the roots (tailing) from vegetables -- in this case mangles, the word being a shortened form of Mangelwurzel, which is literally translated from the German as beet + root. Mangles, or mangels, are usually used as cattle fodder as they are too pithy for table use.~~~~~~~~Britons, please correct me if any of the above is wrong.~~~~~~~~~Janalyn, I've kicked around several ideas what "turd knocking" could be, too!!~~~~~~~~The lack of formatting is driving me BONKERS!!!

Bless you, Frieda, you font/fount of knowledge and great scribe of all obscure things! The next time I am in Hawaii, I will search you out and treat you to several Mai Tais and we will shock the bar patrons by discussing our new business, a "sure thing", Turd Knocking. Now if someone could tell us what it is....

Janalyn, Frieda seems to have summed up all the above phrases very neatly although the only 'obscure' one to me is 'turd knocking' (I am surprised such a vulgar word gets past the delicate sensibilites of the Guardians of this site). Given the context of the piece I think he means 'muck spreading' when the manure from the cow sheds is cleared out and spread on the fields, usually in early spring .. . a time around here to keep the windows closed. Sometimes called 'sh*t shovelling' although that really applies to any unpleasant job. . . ~ . .. ~ . . . ~ . . . . ~ .. ..~ . . .. ~ . .. .~ .. . . ~. . . . . . ~ . . . .~ . . . FRIEDA. Sorry to have to repeat this . . . your email didn't arrive (see above) re the F's of N.

Do not read this while eating!........"Knockers" used to be men who called at the house for something, from door-knocking, I suppose. Perhaps a turd knocker collected night soil. (The solid contents of a chamber-pot used as manure.) I am reading Wives and Daughters and Gaskell mentions a side door in the manor house used by the servants for taking out the manure.........This is probably 'more than you want to know'!

Time to revive this thread. You folk across the pond, if you have not yet drowned,;-) could you please explain the follwing term encountered in some English books? In a Miss Read novel, the teacher complains that her associates are "a rum lot." To an American ear, this might sound as if they are all in their cups, but somehow, I don't think so....

"a rum lot" would be a shady, shifty group of ne'er do wells, I believe.

I read thru this entire thread looking for one word. Hope someone of the British persuasion is reading this who can answer. The final Harry Potter uses the word "snogging" a number of times. While it obviously has something to do with romantic entanglements, I can't quite get the meaning. Can't be too bad as these are children's books, after all.

ginny 'snogging' is what I think teenagers in the US call 'necking'(and I hate both expressions!)

Mary, a 'rum lot' or a 'rum do' means something rather strange/odd or even 'whacky'. A 'do' is one of those wonderful English words that have endless meanings. So a 'bit of a do' or 'we went to a do last night' "Sorry I'm late home Darling, but there was a do for someone leaving the office" means a party/get-together and a 'fancy do' means a grand party, dinner-dance, right up to Cinderella's ball and where you stick the embossed invitation up on the mantelpiece for all to admire.

Thank you, Vee. I guess the terms applied to that activity are legion. Just didn't know if there was some other spin to it.

I believe that 'necking' is for the older generations; more currently it's 'making out.' --Which doesn't sound too great either!!

I was afraid to pursue the topic but I agree. My parents' generation, the WW2 generation, used the word necking. My generation, the 60s, called it making out. But I'm always afraid to use these phrases because of what they might mean to others. The Victorians used "making love" to mean casting longing gazes at each other and batting eyelashes. The term has certainly proceeded apace since then.

There is an even older term for this which used to be used in the U.S. -- "Spooning." ( I first heard about it from some older southern relatives).

ginny 'making love', as you suggest, seems to be an expression that would be considered rather coy today in this age of up-front, anything goes. I am now so long in the tooth I don't know what the current UK jargon is for these 'acts of intimacy' and, even if I did it is very likely too rude to use on a site like this.
The expression bonking (do nor confuse with bonkers=mad) seems to be an acceptable term as I read in the 'Times' newspaper the other day.
The reporter was writing a piece on the bad behaviour of English 'youth' holidaying on the Spanish 'Costa's' and wrote something along the lines of "These teenagers, after drinking 10 pints of cheap booze, if not vomiting in the gutter, can be found cementing their newly-formed 15 minute relationships with a quick bonk against the trunk of the nearest car."
And to think the '60's were considered a decadent decade.

I have heard "spooning" for when two people cuddle on a bed and lie close like spoons in a draw.

I heard a funny story, supposed to be true, of a couple of girls going home from college at Christmastime by train. They were sharing a sleeping compartment, and, of course, it was cold. The second girl, coming from the bathroom after changing, jumped into the bed and said, "It's so cold; let's sleep spoon-style." But she had jumped into the wrong compartment, and the occupant was male. She made a quick getaway, but he did recognize her the next morning. He was also a college student, and they ended up getting married.

Of course, a common Australian term for 'acts of intimacy' is a trap for Americans, as for them it means to support a sporting team.

Here, one would never say 'I root for the Crows".

Kath, a similar easy to make mistake happened to a friend of mine newly arrived in Canada and working in a small neighbourhood drug store.
An embarrassed youth, asked in a whisper for some 'rubber goods' and she, thinking he meant what you in N America call erasers, directed him to the stationery counter.
An even bigger blunder happened when she was invited to join the local tennis club, home to the town's social elite.
Once she got to know the younger members she foolishly (and loudly) asked if any of them would care to join her in a pre-match knock-up (in English a warm up before a game)

Fond recollections of staying in an Italian ski resort in the Sixties, where there was a plethora of Brits. One says to my American room-mate and I: "Would you like to be knocked up tomorrow morning?" ;-)

Another query: will someone from across the Pond tell this American what "lardy cake" is?

I guess no one reads this thread?

Now, now, of course they do. But at the moment, evidently not a Brit with an answer to your query. I am American and never heard of lardy cake but just Googled it and there were lots of hits. According to that info, it's a cake that originates in Wiltshire in the West Country. That is or was a pig farming area and lard is a fat that comes from pigs. Lardy cake is heavy on the lard. It also includes lots of fruits and spices so seems to be a sort of lard-based fruit cake, eaten with tea. Not so good for the cholesterol count, I'm afraid.

That's all from reading quickly. I can attest to lard as the best possible shortening for pastry making. My MIL always used it for her apple pies and lemon tarts and they were incomparable.

Hello, ginny, thanks. I came across the term when reading some of the "Miss Read" books. Somehow, I never thought of googling it. Anyway, it's more interesting to get a personal response, IMO. Certainly, it's "heart attack" food!

Yes, you are right--it is much more interesting to get personal replies with memories of family and friends. I hope some appear here soon. You've got my curiosity up, for sure.

Mary, sorry I didn't notice your request for info re lardy cakes as pronto as you might have liked.
You are both correct, they are not for anyone on a diet or in the last phase of heart failure.
I also had to look up a recipe (below) and I didn't realise they came from Wiltshire, a county well-known for its pigs, pork, sausages etc. Now not nearly so attractive an area as Salisbury Plain is the training ground for much of the British Army and a country stroll may involve tanks and the squashing of small family pets.
I have only ever eaten 'boughten' lardy cakes which tend to be greasy and very heavy, they must be much nicer if fresh from the oven and home-made.
No doubt they provided extra calories for all those Ancient Britons building Stonehenge. Perhaps the stale ones were used in its underpinnings?

Here is a link that might be useful: Lardy Cakes

Vee, thanks for the interesting post. These cakes do sound delicious. I noticed the recipe calls for "strong" flour. I am not wondering what that is and what would be its opposite?

Mary 'strong' flour is the sort you use in bread making.

Too much work for me, but at the next virtual party . . .

I often come across an expression that sounds British to me, but I am not sure. What exactly does it mean when one says "so and so is rather twee."?

Mary, the dictionary definition of twee is "excessively sentimental, sweet or pretty" but it can also be used to describe for eg the sort of adult who refuses to grow-up and keeps a collection of teddy bears on their bed, or a house that is full of knick-knacks, layers of lace curtains at the windows and doilies under every saucer, plate, mug, or a garden full of little plastic gnomes and 'cute' animals, or the person who still uses 'baby talk' although they are well-past forty seven. There is also the certain sort of English man, rather effeminate, that probably keeps a silk handkerchief tucked into his cuff.
Does this ring any bells?

Vee - or the young couple who use each other's pet names in public and don't seem to be embarrassed about it ! "Twee" is definitely not a compliment, and you'd never use it about yourself.

Vee, thanks. For the sort of Englishman you describe above, I used to hear the term "milquetoast" a lot.

For the house with too many lace doilies, bric-a-brac, etc. I've heard "tacky" used in the South and "schmaltz" used in the North.

Kitsch would also ber used in the north for that house.

I thought I knew what a "prig" is, but now I'm not sure. Is it the Brit. equivalent for "prude"? Or more like the old-fashioned "Namby-pamby"?

Also, do Brits still use the term "crocodile" to describe a long line of people? I first heard this from an older English friend here in the States. Seemed odd to me, as you don't have alligators and we do....

Woodnymph, while I am not British, I have understood "prig" to refer to someone who is very concerned with what's proper and right and smugly believes himself to be morally better than other people and is eager to correct what he sees as being the wrong behaviour in others, not because he wants to do them a favour but because he wants them to know he is better than they are.

Mary, netla has suumed up a "prig" very well. It is a self-righteous person.
A namby-pamby is more of a 'Mummies Boy', a 'softie', someone who is rather 'insipid'. Always said of boys (or even men) rather than girls.

A crocodile describes a line, almost always of childen, going 'two-by-two' . . . not just one behind the other.
And thank God we don't have either crocodiles or alligators here. I feel about them as others do of spiders. It may be totally politically incorrect to say so, but if they were all turned into shoes and handbags I would not shed a tear (crocodile or otherwise)

Dragging this thread up from the past because I have a question for Martin, Vee and others from the English-speaking isle:

I was doing some voice-over work for a British telephone answering machine ordered by some company... You know the type: "Press one for this, press two for that..."
Anyway, I couldn't remember what the name for "#" (that sign on the telephone key pad) was. Is it "hash" or is it "pound" or is it something else?

Anyone know? I guessed and said "hash" and hoping it was right as I don't know if I want to go back and read all that script again if I was wrong!

In the UK, "#" is "hash". So you're all right, if it's intended to be used in the UK.

In the US, "#" is "pound".

Working for a US bank, I am used to both.

Liz, what will this lead to? The speaking clock? I speak your weight? Stand-in for Judi Dench in Portia's speech from The Merchant of Venice on DVD?
Give us the name of the answering machine firm so we can dial in and listen to those clipped English tones. :-)

Thanks, Martin and Vee.

Vee - your comments about the speaking time made me laugh out loud at work today. I had to explain why I was laughing to my co-worker!

Thanks for the laugh!

Would some of our British friends clue me in to what a "dogsbody" actually is? I keep finding it used in English based works. I have the general idea it is the same as the American "gofer".

(Hope I have not asked this before).

more beaten-down than a gofer, but the same general gist. gets the jobs/chores no one else wants.

cece is right, dogsbody can also mean a drudge; no family is without one in the UK and guess who it usually is. ;-)

Thanks. Here is another query: reading an ad in an English newspaper that is offering for sale "plus fours" and "plus twos." what are these?

Mary, plus fours/plus twos were/are trousers (like the old fashioned knickerbokers) some men wear for playing golf.
I'm sure they must still be warn by older men in the US.
Plus twos are a bit less baggy round the knees.
Are you reading a modern newspaper?

Here is a link that might be useful: Plus Fours Plus Twos

Vee, LOL, I found the ad on the back of one of the cuttings you had sent me! ;-) No, I do not think older men in the U.S. wear these still. I've got old photos of my father in the 1920's wearing knickerbockers. I think golfer Bobby Jones made the style popular in the 1930's.

No--no knickers (as they were called here). Now they wear loud plaid pants!

Yep, or pants with alligators on them, in the deep south, in weird hues of green and rose....

My father wore plusfours in the 50'ies. I am sure they must have been very practical for riding a bicycle, no trouser legs to get tangled.

I don't think plus fours have been worn by anyone in the US since before WW2. I know my father wore them as a boy in the 20s and I've seen pictures of men playing golf in the 30s wearing them--but never since the war have I seen a photo or real-life example of these. Well, actually I wasn't born til after the war but you get the point.

How about frock? Nancy Drew always wore frocks but that's a word I have never heard anyone say in the US. How about the UK, Vee?

Ginny, we had a discussion about frocks somewhere around RP not long ago.
I got the impression no US female has worn one for many years but the word is still around over here although it has come to be used as in a 'party frock' event or maybe a summery picnic-by-the-river/watching a game of polo with an eligible Royal.
At the other extreme 'frocks' are worn by the transvestite community. The artist Grayson Perry collected his Turner Prize wearing a natty little number . . . a path down which I shall no further tread.
Re plus-fours my father wore them as a young man about town/golf course, years before he married.
We still have the long socks/stockings that he wore with them. They were kept for Christmas Eve and left at the end of our beds for 'Father Christmas' (as we in the UK call Santa Claus). They were inherited by our children, pity Dad didn't have three legs.
Still holding up well since c1930 . . . could the same be said of modern materials?