Literary parallels seem ever-present. I was constantly reminded of The Go-Between, although I am not sure why, perhaps the sense of dread and almost constant foreshadowing. I would describe this book as Nabokov-meets-Stephen King. Beautifully written, with those beautiful dense sentences, but the author's fascination with the vulgar seemed rather odd to me. For instance, Mrs. Grace, the object of lust, is described in terms that seem anything but attractive, at least to me. Ex. - "The sight of her is almost alarming. A creature with so many mounds and scoops of flesh to carry should not cavort like this, she will damage something inside her, some tender arrangement of adipose tissue and pearly cartilage." Rather reminds me of deboning a chicken.

I could not figure out the significance of Myles being mute. Can someone enlighten me?

"1) One reviewer said They are like hits of some delicious drug, these sentences"

When I began reading the book, I felt the author was over-describing and found it a bit dense. I went back and re-read some of the descriptions and found they painted a clear and unambiguous picture in my mind of the scene. The book flowed quite well once put myself in that mindset.

I found the ending somewhat unsatisfactory. It did seemed contrived, and after the exceptional descriptions in the rest of the book I found myself feeling let down at the end. Did I miss something?

I knew who Miss Vavasour must be early on, but I was surprised at her love interest.

I also thought the writing beautiful, but I found it sort of distracting--as if he were trying just a bit too hard.

And, yes, I found the end contrived. Exactly how old were the children? A little young for the hint of incest as well as Chloe's semi-romance with Max and his crush on Mrs. Grace? I hadn't thought of the comparison with The Turn of the Screw, but now that you mention it, yes.

I think then we're all in agreement - the end was a bit contrived! I don't really understand the motivation of the children - why did they swim into the sea and die? Any suggestions? And yes - perhaps a little young for the sexual behaviour, I thought. And that applied also to the young Max. They were all meant to be ten or eleven - the narrator wasn't sure.

I had another quick look at The Turn of the Screw. In The Sea, the children are Myles and Chloe. In TOTS, they are Miles and Flora. And Chloe means "blooming"... Add in a governess, and you feel this wasn't a coincidence, don't you? No ghost, though...

On a re-read you discover that the fact that Mrs Vavasour is Rose is actually hinted at a couple of times in the book before you actually find out for sure.

I read the section about the children dying several times, thinking I missed something. Was it the argument with Rose, or maybe the awakening of sexual feeling that lead to the argument that caused them to walk into the sea? Since it was an unusual tide, were they doing it to taunt Rose and went too far? I wasn't clear on their ages, but for some reason assumed 11 or 12. At that age there might be the beginnings of some sexual behavior, perhaps a little more advanced in Chloe because both parents seemed to flaunt (somewhat crudely maybe) their sexuality.

I completely missed that Mrs Vavasour was Rose until I did re-read it. I am puzzled too about Myles being mute, especially since it seemed to be a choice.

Yes indeed, the end was puzzling. I didn't understand why the children drowned themselves; did they mean to or was it an accident? What is the role of the sea itself? Obviously the name of the book - is the sea meant to be an actual character or representative of something?

I thought the children definitely meant to drown themselves and probably because they meant more to each other than they should and just wanted to end their lives together before adult mores or adulthood interfered.

The father was a strange character, too, wasn't he? All body hair and smiles.

Siobhan, I figured the sea and the title had meanings too deep for me to figure out. It certainly permeated the book, and it does roll on regardless of puny human beings and their passions.

The sea as the title seemed appropriate to me as they never would have met had it not been for the popularity of taking a holiday at the sea. When at the beginning Max noticed Myles' webbed feet I wondered if that would tie into the sea, but they were not referenced again.

Chloe and Myles had the closeness I associate with twins, but their somewhat nasty fights were observed and commented upon more than once. I checked out some basic information on boy/girl twins and it is not unusual for the girl twin to mother the boy twin, but Chloe seemed to be the instigator. She seemed to dominate him more than mother him.

Kathleen's comment makes me think something along the lines of Myles came from the sea and he returned to the sea, somehow triggered by the sexual awakening...maybe I am thinking about this too hard.

Just picked up this book at the library yesterday, so only up to page 44. This is my first time at this book ... first time reading anything by Banville.

His sentences are tricky for me -- some are so long, and he uses terms unfamiliar to an American. So far it's a bleak story, and the characters aren't appealing. I'm sticking with it, though if anything just to see what all the fuss is about (critics raves, Booker Prize, etc.) !

I'm about half-way into the story today.

He's caught up in the sense of smell, doesn't he? Today I noticed a similarity between Mrs. Grace, and Anna, Morden's wife --- they both have dark hair, are big, good-looking, and he describes their "scents" in earthy adjectives. Could that be why he fell for Anna ? ... because she reminded him (maybe he wasn't even aware of it) of Mrs. G.

Also today I came across another reference to Myles' webbed toes (pg. 45 of the Knopf hardcover, bottom 2nd par.) -- "... Myles G.'s toes were naturally, unnaturally, like that ... the marks of a godling, sure as heaven." Someone here said that his webbed toes were -- it seemed -- only mentioned once in the book.

Another impression:
Morden is awfully preoccupied with himself A LOT of the time. It's really tiresome! Is it because his wife died and he's still recovering, or is he just like that? For some reason I'm getting the impression that he's always like that -- a real navel-gazer.

Is that the end of this book discussion ? I thought there'd be more to it! Oh, well, I guess this means I can just skim-read the rest of it ... Kind of a pity because I worked my way up to pg. 145!

I have just acquired a copy of The Sea, it will be next for me.
I remember long ago putting it down for whatever reason, I shall try once again.

I just finished The Sea. The articulateness of the author caught me first. Terrific use of language. Reminded me of Rushdie's capabilities.

Secondly the character of the narrator who was portrayed as a congenital cowardly sneak with aspirations. Overly self aware with a vivid imagination. Who attempted to rise above his lower class origins by ingratiating himself with the rich family and then by marrying a well-to-do woman. This character was fascinating to me. Where were his morals? Taking pleasure by cruelly beating his dog? Setting grasshoppers on fire? Sociopathic behavior. And then he leads an upright life? Unlikely. Or did the suidcide of the twins produce a profound retreat? Scaring the ambitious curiosity out of him? His later life musings show occasional blasts of honest insight. Overall a dissatisfied follower. By his self-label of dilletant. Was his excessive drinking after his wife's death new behavior?

Self pity disguised as self mockery?

The author was 60 years old when this was published. Forgot that 10 yrs. is too young for sexual awakening? Never mind. He dealt with human yearnings well which was for me the point of the story. The twin's inability to connect emotionally (happily) with others & their awakening to their own separateness (paths to come) was intolerable. They were marked for self-destruction from birth. When the mute one puts his arm around his sister's shoulders and lays his head against her illuminated the only warm human bond either felt. They could not survive without each other. This makes more sense to me than fear of parental repercussions from the governess' report of hanky panky.

The writing was beautiful. I can live with the loose ends. I was cheesed off by the last sentence of the book. "A nurse came out to fetch me, and I turned & followed her inside, and it was as if I were walking into the sea."

Iris,

Welcome to this (apparently) aborted book discussion ! ...

Even though I share none of your obvious enthusiasm for this story, I DO agree w/your synopsis of the narrator's character. I too was bothered by his awful cruelty to the dog, e.g. However, making him the "hero" , so to speak!, of an entire novel is sooooo bleak. ... I cannot get interested in spending so much time entrenched w/ someone soooo dreary !! I don't understand the point. And the "elegance" and "beauty" of the prose was totally lost on me. One critic wrote "Banville's writing is like Vladimir Nabokov's" -- one main reason why I picked the book in the first place. Boy ! was I disappointed. He writes NOTHING like Nabokov. For one thing, Nab. had a razor-sharp wit, did brilliant turns of phrase, puns, all kinds of word-play! ... whereas, the writing in "The Sea" struck me as so sad-sack !

As for the twins -- I couldn't see where they were "marked for self-destruction from birth". ... Is anyone marked for self-destruction from birth ?? I never could see what the webbed toes were about (on the boy twin); or was that the author trying to add "Symbolism" ? !

Lauramarie, it was bleak! I saw the twins to be on a self destruct course because of having known some like that (hindsight). It is most puzzling and finally becoming illuminated by the genome map.

Pre-puberty hatred is not normal. These kids were born 'tweaked' and would never fit into any society.

Since the author needed a frame upon which to discourse, he chose the ocean. One twin having outwardly visable abnormalities as well as the muteness showed some genetic problems. Whether the author was doing the feet out of whimsy ......???? The webbed toes seem a jejeune (?) way to tie the story to the title or of "Symbolism". I think the real story was 'sick' protaganist. This incident in his early life was always a puzzle.

I'm going to have to pick up a Nabokov - do you have a fav.?

Hello Iris -

I've only read 4 books by Nabokov ... and adored all 4 of them!

1.) "Lolita" It puts some people off because of the adult man chasing after the 12-year-old girl (Lolita). But there's nothing really scatological in the story. The way Nab. expresses his hero's rapture over the nymphet raises it to High Art, I don't care what anyone says! And there's fabulous word-play that just tickles my word lust -- puns, etc. Lots of laugh-out-loud scenes, too, when Nab. describes American places, people, things as the hero drives across the U.S.A.!

2.) "Speak, Memory" His memoirs. All about growing up in Old Russia, the Revolution, moving to England, going to Oxford U, teaching in USA. Some of the earlier parts are about Old Russia aristocrats' love of anything English. There are parts that have the "feel" of "Swann's Way" ... very evocative of a Romantic Past, if you know what I mean ... loving memories of Pears Soap, an English rubber bath, etc., etc.

3.) "Lectures in Russian Literature" His lectures at a US university, before he made fame and fortune w/ "Lolita". Even has photos of Nab.'s lecture notes and doodles on the side.

4.) "Lectures on English Literature" /or/ "Lectures on Literature"
Same as above as far as doodles, etc. go. His individual lectures on: "Mansfield Park"; "Dr. Jekel and Mr. Hyde"; James Joyce's "Ulysses; "Bleak House" .... and he loved all of them, even the Austen .... amazing since he did not think women capable of writing real Literature. But a male prof. on college staff urged him to "try an Austen". Nab., to his credit, not only read an Austen but ended up admitting what a truly fine writer she was!

Thanks Lauramarie. Read Lolita many years ago. Will be good to read again but first I'm going for his memoirs!

I finally got around to reading this. I do think the author writes in an elegant, measured, powerful style. However, the plot was marred in my opinion by the constant self-centered, navel-gazing of the male protagonist. The ending was indeed a mystery, but I don't think Rose was in love with Carlo, but instead with Constance, his wife. (Their initials were the same, placed on the gate by the children as a taunt).

I think the book could have been much stronger, with a different ending, and more thematic usages of the art history comparisons, e.g. Bonnard, etc. I don't get why Morden needed to be an art historian (why was this necessary to his character or the plot?)

In summation, I also felt the author borrowed themes from both "Turn of the Screw" and "The Go-Between". However, each was more successful with their plot and themes than was Banville.