Ok, for clarification, can we agree that the seven deadly sins are :

Lust
Gluttony
Greed
Sloth
Wrath
Envy
Pride

??

For Greed, how about Shakespeare's Macbeth (aka the Scottish play)?

For Sloth, I recommend Oblomov by Ivan Goncharov.

Wrath is the one that has me intrigued...Miller's The Crucible, and Dickens' Tale of Two Cities.

I also think of The Count of Monte Cristo, and the question: Can wrath be both a deadly sin, and yet admirable; and a justifiable response?

The Scarlet Letter
Hamlet

Lust or Pride: Anna Karenina, Daniel Deronda
Pride, Envy: Othello

Great suggestions - we could include an extra 'sin' - ideas?

Envy - - a contemporary - The Amazing Mr. Ripley.
Wrath is difficult - is righteous indignation taken to justifiable extremes acceptable?

A;though Margaret Kennedy's character does exemplify this 'sin'.

Keeping with the Shakespearean theme how about The Merchant of Venice for greed?
Lady Chatterley's Lover and Madame Bovary for lust . . . plus endless other 'modern' works where characters swop partners with gymnastic vigour.

I have always felt that jealousy was worse than envy, but maybe one leads to the other.
And sloth is a sine qua non for many UK teenagers.

Dyno, obviously the nuns drummed the message home so you still remember that list.
SIN was the big word among the Irish nuns who 'taught' me from the age of 10. Their outlook on life was totally negative and they were forever pointing out the rocky path that prevented most of us (especially non-Catholics) from getting anywhere near the Pearly Gates so maybe I'll think of a few Irish books.

Vee --

It was never nuns. That was the school next door. I was first taught by Benedictine monks and then by Jesuit priests. The outlook of the monks wasn't all that negative. Well, it didn't seem negative to an 11 year old. As for the Jesuit priests, they were in the grips of liberation theology at the time so it was a matter of taking over the country to help others.

I've always wondered about the Pearly Gates. I mean, if all the people inside were priests and nuns and "good" people, wouldn't it be quite, er, boring? Now in the OTHER place, you'd have the INTERESTING people like ...... Hollywood movie stars, politicians, the atheists, the agnostics, etc., etc. ;-)

Oh, and I like the suggestion for lust and greed. In a more modern vein, how about Bonfire of the Vanities for Pride? How about Ethan Frome for Envy?

Oh, and I haven't seen any suggestions for Gluttony!

A Confederacy of Dunces for gluttony
The main character, Ignatius J. Reilly, is the epitome of a glutton. Warning though: You'll either bust your stitches laughing at Reilly's shenanigans in New Orleans or you will want to throw the book on the floor and stomp on it.

For a classic take on gluttony, Gargantua and Pantagruel. Why is it that gluttony is so often a source of humor in literature (c.f. Falstaff)?

Russ

For Lust, what about T.H. White's "Once and Future King."

For Pride and Envy, possible Mitchell's "Gone With the Wind."

Jankin, I would welcome a renewed discussion on "The Go-Between." Could you be the leader, please?

I'd love to start again on TGB - I'll probably have a go tomorrow and write as we read along in the reading group.

Some interesting ideas here fulfilling the criteria on the '7 Sins' as we understand them. What about another sin - I would like to suggest 'Hypocrisy' and nominate 'Hamlet' mainlt because of Claudius.

Do you think the definition of the word 'sin' can adequately be interpreted as 'hamartia' or just 'missing the mark' (archery terminology) which doesn't seem half as bad as some religious interpretations that would view all the 'sinners' venial and otherwise as destined for hellfire? (sorry long sentence)

Interesting point about the term "sin". I think "sin" has, at its root, the concept of doing something one should not do. This encompasses mistakes, errors, and even Jankin's "missing the mark". But is that all that the term "sin" means?

The problem with some of the interpretations of the meaning of the term is that one must necessarily import a judgment, even a moral judgment of sorts. And, of course, once morality enters the picture, everything goes to hell in a handbasket (if you'll forgive the pun). After all, what are the so-called "seven deadly sins" but an enunciation of Judeo-Christian (ok, I'll even say mostly Christian) values -- things that one should NOT do?

In fact, is it not a judgment in and of itself by enumerating seven deadly "sins"? By doing so, one imports the ideas/judgment that :

a) these things are bad and therefore sinful
b) one should not do them
c) these seven are worse than OTHER "sins"

Anyway, not to hijack the thread or anything -- these are just the ruminations of a work-addled mind on a late Friday afternoon as the mind waits for the clock to strike 5 pm. ;-)

Why those seven? What's the initial justification for this particular list? It's not biblical (is it?) - but there seems to be a suggestion that they are taught as part of a religious upbringing - or, more precisely, children are taught to recognise and avoid them in religious schools. I went to a secular school (though, of course, we had a Christian assembly, as most schools did in those days) - and I don't think I was ever taught them in any way.

The seven deadly sins and their counterpart, the seven cardinal virtues, have their roots in the early middle ages. Essentially--and I'm simplifying centuries of history--the seven deadly sins were sins that the early Catholic church taught could only be forgiven through confession, whereas lesser sins (aka the venial sins) could be forgiven through any of the church's sacraments. It was Dante (mostly) who made these sins such an ingrained part of the popular imagination. The set is not specifically Biblical and isn't followed by any denomination (including Catholic) that I'm aware of.

As to why there are seven: well, seven is an important number in the Bible, and in the Middle Ages people very often thought in those terms. Read any medieval philosophy and you'll see lots of 3s and 7s and very few 6s and 8s.

Russ

Just to remind everyone that tomorrow is

07.07.07

Portentous or what!

They are all really selfishness of one sort or another-even sloth.

Gluttony...I know there is at least one scene in Tom Jones...and also...several scenes in A Man For All Seasons.

I like the addition of The Once and Future King...I read it as a teenager...when "Camelot" was on broadway...I was maybe 13. I vividly remember it...with a lot of detail. Good suggestion.

Gluttony, lust, avarice, wrath and pride-can all be found well-illustrated in:
The Autobiography of Henry VIII

I imagine Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress must contain all the examples of the 7 Deadly Sins, and probably quite a few lesser ones.
The site below contains the whole work, lots of quotes will be familiar to you. I didn't know the word 'alien' went back so far.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Pilgrim's Progress

My home town's claim to fame was that John Bunyan grew up there and was imprisoned in a small village gaol close to the town. It's called Bedford, BTW.

I know - you are thrilled at this news. :-)

Liz, I think the Beirut hostage Terry Waite did much to reintroduce interest in John Bunyan.
After several years of captivity in solitary confinement he received a post card from a woman, unknown to him, with a picture of Bunyan in his Bedford prison cell. The fact that the PC and message of encouragement should have reached him at all gave him hope for the future.
Bunyan is also known as the writer of the hymn To Be a Pilgrim which I enjoy because of its upbeat tune and the lines in the third verse
"Hobgoblin nor foul fiend
Can daunt his spirit"

Here is a link that might be useful: Terry Waite on John Bunyan

Vee - I didn't know that about Terry Waite. And I, also, love that hymn but haven't thought of it for eons. Thanks for the reminder. It brings me back to my schooldays when we used to belt it out....!

Pride/Envy/Wrath
The Master of Ballantrae by Robert Louis Stevenson. A rivalry between two brothers with Cain and Abel twist.

Gluttony
Remedy by Michelle Lovric. There's a character named Pevenche in this book that is quite the exemplar of Gluttony. I enjoyed this book a lot, but I feel I might be in the minority. It's dark and sardonic, but not exactly popular fiction or a book club sort of read.

Correction: Stevenson's book uses parallels to biblical story of Jacob/Esau (although, I guess there are similarities to Cain and Abel, too). I can't think straight when trying to use my husband's laptop with just a nub AND a crying child sitting on my lap. Ugh!