The most thorough coverage of this subject that I'm aware of was a doctoral dissertation by Charles Walker (founder of the Heritage Rose Foundation). From that dissertation (which I have somewhere, but will have to search for), is this publication: Walker, Jr., C. A. and D. J. Werner. 1997. Isozyme and randomly amplified polymorphic DNA (RAPD) analyses of Cherokee rose and its putative hybrids 'Silver Moon' and 'Anemone'. J. Amer. Soc. Hort. Sci. 122(5):659-664. Here's the abstract of the article: Two banding patterns were revealed by phosphoglucomutase (PGM) isozyme analysis of 24 accessions of Cherokee rose (Rosa laevigata Michx.) from eight southeastern states, based on the presence (in 5 accessions) or absence (in 19 accessions) of an additional slow-migrating band. RAPD analysis of these accessions showed a corresponding division into the same two groups determined by PGM analysis, except for two accessions with unique RAPD phenotypes. Field-grown accessions showed distinguishing morphological characters corresponding to the groupings from the isozyme and RAPD analyses. Those in the predominant isozyme and RAPD groups, as well as the two with unique RAPD phenotypes, exhibited smooth lateral stems, while those in both nonpredominant groups exhibited markedly bristly laterals. These results suggest that the 24 accessions are ramets of two major clones with one clone predominating and that, contrary to long-standing belief, the Cherokee rose has not naturalized by reseeding in the southeast. PGM and RAPD analyses of putative Cherokee rose hybrids Anemone and ÂSilver Moon showed that ÂAnemone is likely to be such a hybrid but that ÂSilver Moon is not. Historical records revealed that widespread vegetative propagation of the Cherokee rose was initiated in 1820-21 and that L. Wiesener, not J.C. Schmidt, was the originator of ÂAnemoneÂ. ________________ Then from the introduction to the paper: The Cherokee rose (Rosa laevigata Michx.) was believed to be a U.S. native when it first came to the attention of plant enthusiasts in the late 18th and early 19th centuries (Lindley, 1820). This belief persisted into the 20th century and is so stated in the resolution adopting it as the Georgia state flower (General Assembly of the State of Georgia, 1916). Although it is now acknowledged to be a native of China, the circumstances of its entry into the United States remain obscure. It has long been reported to be naturalized widely in the southern states (Bailey, 1925; Radford et al., 1968; Torrey and Gray, 1838-40). Confusion between this and another Chinese native, the Macartney or Chickasaw rose (R. bracteata J.C. Wendl.), may have influenced this belief. However, personal observation since 1972 has revealed no evidence of reseeding of the Cherokee rose as if it were native, suggesting that it is not naturalized in the sense of Jackson (1928) but is persistent at dwellings and other sites of deliberate planting. In contrast, reseeding of the Macartney rose has infested ~201,000 ha in Texas, and much effort has been devoted to its control (Garoian et al., 1984). ______________ Then in the discussion at the end of the article is this: Search of the early literature. A large volume of material relating to the Cherokee rose was discovered in 19th century literature, some of it apparently unseen by previous writers on this rose. Of particular relevance to the present study is an 1820 letter to the American Farmer from C. E. Rowand, who had been using it for hedging on his plantation near Charleston, S.C., since about 1808 and highly recommended it to his fellow planters, offering to send "any quantity of the cuttings" free of charge, except freight (Rowand, 1820). In 1826, a list of 50 recipients of RowandÂs largesse of 1820-21 was published in the American Farmer, revealing that material had been sent to Delaware, Georgia, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Virginia, and Matanzas, probably in Florida, as well as to Edinburgh, Scotland (Skinner, 1826). General John Joor of Wilkinson County, Miss., began experimenting with the Cherokee rose as a hedge plant about 1822. Only 30 years later, Benjamin Wailes (1852) estimated that >1000 miles of Cherokee rose hedges existed in the Mississippi counties of Adams and Wilkinson alone. Given these circumstances, it is not difficult to see how later writers would interpret ubiquity as naturalization. Two early records reveal the presence in the southeast of Cherokee rose plant with smooth laterals like the predominant group in this study. One plant, Grown by William W. Anderson (1820) of Stateburg, S.C. had an "oblong-ovate hispid germ seated upon a short smooth peduncle," apparently indicating a smooth flowering stem. Another plant was sent by James Wilson from Savannah, Ga., to the Glasgow Botanic Garden, where it flowered in 1828 for what was said to be the first time in the British Isles. A depiction of it shows smooth laterals (Curtis, 1828). This trait, together with the origin of the plants, suggests that these two plants belong to the predominant group in this study. Lindley (1820), after having examined only two herbarium specimens of it, described as R. hystrix a form of R. laevigata with bristly laterals. Results of this study suggest that a high percentage of the Cherokee rose plants now growing in the southeast are ramets of the same clone and may have been propagated from cuttings distributed by Rowand from Charleston in 1820-21. __________________ The whole article, and the entire dissertation are well worth reading, but I thought these bits may be of use here. Malcolm

Andy, thanks for your thoughts. I have grafted and own-root roses and both do very well. But some people here at the Far North stick with own-root because they perform better in their location. Multiflora is definitely the best rootstock for our climate. This past fall I dug up 3 old, grafted hybrid teas and they had very clearly formed their own roots as well as using the rootstock. It was actually very interesting to see. (I dug them up to move them to my new house BTW, not to dispose of them). According to HelpMeFind, some of the rarer Bugnets are on display at Roseraie du Témis in Quebec. Wow I would like to visit there. Here is a link that might be useful: Roserie d. T.

Thank you all for your wonderful advice! Formerly LanaRoma, I'm lana_roma now. Apparently, my email address was lost during the move, but my old username still remained in their database, although I couldn't get it confirmed even after multiple attempts. I asked the GW/Houzz staff to restore my account but received no help from them. I gave up and got a new account to be able to use GW. Oh well. The point about looking for hand painted vs decal is a great one. Now I'll make sure to have a magnifying glass with me when looking at china. Made a list of brands that you suggested and Googled them. Mottahedeh looks fabulous and very high end. V&B Anmut is such a sophisticated choice! Royal Doulton looks lush and Victorian - wish I had a Queen Anne house to go with it. :-) Spode Stafford is lovely. Lenox, Limoges, Pickard, Wedgwood and Bernardaud are on my list too. There's a lot of Noritake and Mikasa china on CL, but my understanding now is that those are pretty much mid-range brands. I'm confused about Haviland. There are Haviland sets for sale on CL, but some ads say that not all the items in the ad are Haviland, although they all have the same design. For example, this set is lovely: The ad Haviland Set on CL says that some pieces are "Haviland France, some are marked Z.S., & Co. Bavaria, and one is marked Japan", although the pattern is identical. Am I right to doubt whether it's a quality set? I'm a little confused about bone china too. I have two cup and saucer sets of hand painted bone china made in St. Petersburg, Russia. The china is very thin, translucent and with fine detailing. I also have a cup and saucer set marked as bone china and made in England. It's a nice set, but not as fine as the Russian sets. Thicker, a bit clumsier in shape and doesn't look so refined. Funny, when I browsed the local CL today, there were two Mikasa Classic Flair sets for sale. I like my Classic Flair set because I'm partial to Art Nouveau styling, although it's definitely not everyone's thing. Tureens - I use my Noritake Belle Rose tureen to microwave rice pilaf that comes in boxes. Works great! But it's marked as Cook'n Serve. Also, is there a high demand for fine china overall? Some CL sellers ask such high prices for used china. Like $1500 for a Royal Worcester Evesham Gold set: Evesham on CL . This baffles me. I have an Evesham Gold serving dish ( a gift) and it isn't really that high end to me. It's pretty, but not more.

I have Twilight Zone, but own root from Chamblees. It is normally purple. Mine doesn't seem to look hot pink. Anyway Kublan- you must have missed one :) because I just picked up my order from Pop's and I found my Distant Drums. Ooooh and I'm glad you did cause its a beauty. My car smelled so good by the time I got him home. I picked up my friend's order as well. I thought all of our bushes looked really nice and healthy. Thanks so much for letting us know about the nursery. For those of you interested in Secret - or anything that was missing from this shippment, the girl told me that they are going to get another shipment probably Late Nov. or early December. You may want to call and see if she thought they would get it in by then. Again, Thanks. I love my new roses.