R - Thank you very much for the kind words. There are sooo many gimmicky products out there, some of which don't work at all the way they're advertised. There is just no substitute for getting the basics under control and working in your favor, and I'm always glad to see growers who are able to quickly understand how important that is. Over and over I've watched them catapult themselves forward & ahead of those w/o a sense of direction. I've been meaning to draft and scan some line drawings to my photos so I can post a visual reference that will help clarify some of the things I've said about perched water tables and how to do some simple things that will offer a LOT of relief, so I'll make sure to get after that next week. Let me try this: If you have a soil that supports 4" of perched water when saturated, it will support 4" of perched water in a 55 gallon drum or in a drinking straw. If you had a container with 4" of perched water at the bottom and could cast a little pixi dust that suddenly made the container a foot deeper, the water would simply move down into the bottom 4" of soil. Here's the important part >>>>> IF you attached a drinking straw at least 4" long to the bottom of the 55 gallon drum, ALL the water in the PWT would start moving into the straw. The gravitational flow potential of the water in the drum will continue to force water to flow out of the drinking straw until ALL the PW in the drum has dripped off the end. When the set-up stops draining, there will still be 4" of perched water, but it will ALL be in the straw ...... so how much perched water is that? Almost none!! A wick does the same thing. It 'fools' the PW into 'thinking' the container is actually deeper than it is, so the PW moves down the wick where it will be pushed off the bottom of the wick by the rest of the water in the PWT, until the gravitational flow potential is in a state of equilibrium with the capillary attraction of the wick/soil. Science is a beautiful thing when you understand how to put it to work for you. ;-) You do understand what needs to be done to make the wick work effectively for you. In order to work, the wick needs to either dangle below the bottom of the pot or rest on something absorbent - like the soil in your yard/garden/bed or newspaper, or it could dangle over the edge of a sink or a stand you set up in a shower or over a tub. I wouldn't be too quick to burden yourself with the 'poor judgment' verdict for using vermiculite. I have a bag that was about 5 gallons when I bought it 10 years ago, and it still has about 9 gallons + in it, which shows how often I use it. Usually, we should be doing things to try to REDUCE water retention in our container media, so it's probably hard to make a convincing case for using it in our media. I would reserve the impeachment of 'poor judgment' for use on someone who, understanding the importance of the physical properties of container media as well as the physical properties of vermiculite and it's deleterious effect on water retention, went ahead and used it anyway. So, I think you stand unjustly self-accused. ;-) There are two threads I commonly link new growers to. The first is an overview I wrote to help growers avoid the common pitfalls that become the reasons most of the growers looking for remedial help are here. If they find it helpful and exhibit any sort of enthusiasm about their new found information, I usually offer a link to this thread about container soils. I'm not at all bashful about sharing the opinion that the information in the thread about soils probably represents the largest step forward a container gardener can make at any one time. I know with certainty the information has transformed the growing experience of a LOT of people, I among them, but you can judge that by the response of others. I really do hope you find in it things that will enhance what you're able to take from your growing experience. Take care. Al

thx brandon ... my point.. was ... if i had one [dont ever say that to your wife .. lol] ... is that when i look at the words... i see sandy LOAM ... basically ... and in my world.. warped as it is.. loam is the lifeblood of a good soil .... its basically the compost we are supposed to add.. to fortify our soils .... the link is a very simple definition of loam ... and i do understand it is a term of art for the soil scientist .... and below is a pic of a septic field dig 15 feet form the south of my property ... sorry.. i just dont SEE ... key word there ... humus .... [nor clay in my yard] ..... humus in my mind.. being the stuff that retains water in sand.. and offers some nutrients ... anyway ... it is interesting.. that one of the remarks is toward the everyones soils 'farmland capabilities' ... and i am enjoying comparing such.. to each of you that i know well enough to know your trials and tribulations .... in regard to trees/conifers... the real key is drainage .. and boy do i have that ... my soil probably defines why pines and quercus grow like weeds here .... ken ps: lets see.. member for near on 10 years ... thats 3650 days ... i guess i am am averaging under 2 posts a day ... lol .... i better get my act together and do more .... or!!! i should have posted each pic in an individual reply ... the GW system.. and i could have had 4 or 5 for this ... lol ... not the lack of any evidence of deep reaching roots ... though its hard to see in the pic.. the hole is about 2 or 3 feet from the trunk ... OMG.. look at the green giants back there in 2005 ... back behind the green pail ... one on each side.. 20 feet up the hill or so ... lol ... looking north here is the same row in 2009 ... looking east Here is a link that might be useful: i might have to go buy some chickpeas ... for some reason i am craving hummus

the year I had my prettiest gardens, was the year I took graph paper, sketched out the borders of the beds (front of house, wrapped around side), and then just did curved lines on the graph paper to section it off...not huge sections, some bigger, some smaller. when I planted, I put all of one variety in a bigger spot, and elsewhere in the border another spot. some areas might take three coneflowers, another section might have seven of the same thing. my beds are anywhere from hmmm, three feet deep, up to 8 foot deep in some areas, some full sun, part sun, almost deep shade, depending on where it's at in the garden. it was gorgeous all season, my only hopes is that I can recreate it now that i've got to start from scratch again. some of what I had in there are as follows: coneflower, both white and purple shasta daisies, very easy to grow here, TOOOO easy...LOL irises, several varieties sunflowers daylilies hostas dames rocket black eyed susans blanket flower coreopsis, several kinds carnations, LOVE those, so had a LOT dusty miller alyssum for edging almost the whole thing candytuff phlox red hot poker hollyhock some kind of a mallow, i think, love it, hope i can find it again, since i'm not sure what it is...LOL, have ONE poor little guy out by my garage that self sowed, so crossing my fingers I can get seeds from it this year :D dianthus forget me nots oh wow, soooo many different plants, everyone said it was gorgeous, but too many varieties....LOL, but that is what I like, keeps the eye going. I didn't put all tall in the back, short in the front either, there were areas that had all tall clean to edge, it's what I felt like putting there...LOL. keeping a minimum of three unless it was an eyecatching specimen that I really wanted single. some things that would be great with your area are also peonies...think maybe lilacs would be a good choice for you for shrubs too? my area is just a tad to hot and humid in summer, not cold enough in winter to grow lilacs well, only Miss Kim will do anything around here. don't forget the hardscape too, like bird baths, gazing balls, small things. maybe a small trellis to bring in the height too. if you can curve parts of the edges of the bed, that will really make a difference versus a straight line as well. not sure if this helps, but it worked for me that year. Like you, i'm into a complete overhaul this year, due to MS rearing it's ugly head for me, as well as major neck issues, and the garden just went to you know where over the last several years. LOL, last summer, had a energetic moment, and we did get most of it cleared out, including some four foot tall "weed trees". If that tells you how bad it was, for a tree to get that tall in there, Hmmm. Good luck!!! Sally

I am sure you can grow two tomato plants in a barrel. I could even see 3 plants per barrel but it all depends on other factors. I container garden and square foot garden. I had 5 Roma plants and Beef stake vines in square foot sections 6 inches deep. That is a foot apart with six inches of soil. Rich soil that holds moisture well is going to perform better than 2 foot spacing and a foot deep. Since my soil was warmer I started earlier in my area and had Romas in the first week of July on Zone 5 while other gardeners I knew had nothing until the end of July. I am a heavy Tomato user and 5 plants produced about 30-50 a day for a month. Romas are supposed to be determinate but I got a second crop in late August which again put out 30-50 a day for about 3 weeks and tapered off. The Beef steak filled in nicely after the Romas. The vines were 6 foot+ and the beefsteak was moving along probably a 8 feet but the trellis was not that high. Row gardeners are typically not experienced in compact gardening and typically have less than ideal soil and drainage not to mention poor water control. They will certainly tell you more space is needed because that is what they know. The one issue to be concerned with is blight if it is too dense near the bottom. The Romas tend to be resistant to this so also consider blight resistance when packing things in. You will need to water more. as the added tomato plants will transpire.