Ho hum. Same ol' same ol'.

johnirose I got an own-root version of Alnwick Castle last spring. It gave me a handful of blooms on the small band sized plant, but I'm looking forward to wonderful things this year.
I found the blooms to be almost peony like and the scent was incredible.
Jackie

{{gwi:2112336}}

Lozza is that ho hum based on personal experience with this rose?

No Jackie, obviously not by the appearance of your image, beautiful indeed. No it's the lookalikes that get trundled out year after year. I have heard people comment about this, and have to agree that DA might have trouble IDing his roses.

I agree. I got the new 2005 catalog and found myself thinking how much they looked alike to me. Just as I was thinking about how I wasn't tempted to buy any new roses this year, I stumbled upon the Antique Rose Gallery. Now I'm trying to figure out how to keep some exquisite teas alive in my zone 5 borderline 6 garden.
About Alnwick though - it really does look quite different to me than my other DA's. Mine bloomed almost peony like - very large and the fragrance really was very strong and sweet.
I only know one other person who has this rose so I'm very curious about what others will think and how it will do in different environments.

Alnwick (anick) Castle is pink not mauve. Yes another pink lookalike.
Wildeve is ordinary insipid thing.
Charles Darwin is different, pale yellow, very ordinary. Uncle Dave won't get any brownie points on this years releases.

I love your rundown of the new releases blackwmb! Short,sharp and to the point :) I will not be buying any either this season.

Brissy

I don't really get the scentiment behind the "look-a-like" comments regarding recent releases by David Austin Roses. In my opinion the David Austin releases of the past three years (2002/03/04)in Australia have been outstanding and I have nearly all of these growing in my yard. They are all gorgeous and very healthy, and I don't think they look copies of previous DA roses (except for William Shakespeare 2000 which is healthier release of the old version).

Yes of course these roses share similarities such as being many-petalled, often cup shaped rosettes, but that is the essential style of the old roses that David Austin is breeding for. Within that style there are so many variations ranging from subtle textures on the petals to obvious differences such as the growth habit of the bush. If you like the style, then you learn to appreciate the differences. The "English Rose" style has in fact been so successful that many other breeders are releasing their own ranges such as the Romantica series from Meiilland, and the Generosa series from Guillot.

The National Rose Trial Gardens in Adelaide has an abundance of "English Rose" style roses on trial at the moment and I can hardly wait for these to be commercially released as they are performing beautifully.

I think the ho hum comes from all the apricot/pink roses from DA.No matter what the official colour description is-a lot of them share the 'this week apricot-this week pink-this week a combo of these colours thing'.
They show so many similarities that it is sometimes difficult to differentiate between them.
I love Jude the obscure for his wonderful differences,colour and perfume-Lordly Oberon also.
regards
sandie

I have the recent ones, Benjamin Britten and Christopher Marlowe, because I got them cheaply at the end of the bare root season. Benjamin seems fine, though perhaps not what I would have chosen, but Christopher is problematic. He, too, has what looks like a groundcover (low and weeping) habit and the quite small flowers hang down so only the back of the flower is visible. Not a bargain after all.

I agree with Johnnirose wholeheartedly.A few years down the track,I wonder if the criticism of "lookalikes" will be applied to the Romanticas or Generosas too
Pam.

Don't get me wrong-I love DA roses.
They encompass the best of both worlds-old fashioned repeating flowers modern bushes.
I don't have any luck with the dark red coloured ones though-all mine are very runty with the exception of Prospero and The Prince.
I suppose there are so many apricot/pink ones because it is an unusual colour and not found in old fashioned roses but there can be too much of a good thing.
regards
sandie

I really enjoyed this thread on the Antique Gallery regarding Austin's roses. I have saved all the photos for my own reference and am surprised how different they can look in different zones.
You might be interested to see how they fare here in the states. Check it out.
If you have dial up better go away for a couple of hours and let it load. If you have a DSL or Cable it doesn't take long.
Jackie

Here is a link that might be useful: Austins Thread

Johnnirose, you raise some very valid points :)

I have been wondering for a long time now why so many people love to hate DA roses. I have even seen criticism of his plants in published works on roses. I am not sure that I understand why there is so much animosity towards them in some quarters of the rose world.

In fact, my best friend absolutely loathes them! It has become somewhat of a 'running joke' between us now that whenever either of us see one of his roses, she says 'Bloody David Austin' and I say 'So you will be adding that one to your 'wish list' then?'

I had to laugh when she swooned over a photo of a rose a little while back and said "What is it? I have to have it!" It was a photo of Pat Austin, from memory :) However, once she realised it was an Austin she refused to add it to her list... purely on principle! I really don't understand ...shakes head and sighs...

I know there has has been criticism about disease resistance, and leggy growth, but, to my mind at least, DA roses are not the only ones that suffer from these problems.

As I am only 38 years old, perhaps I am simply unaware of past criticisms of older rose breeders... Do people groan when something else is produced by Kordes, or Delbard, or Meilland, for example? Do those breeders have their critics? Because I only ever see criticism about poor old David :(

I don't think I have ever seen someone say 'Can you recommend a rose for (insert purpose here). No Kordes roses, please!'.

But I have lost count of the number of times I have seen 'Can you recommend a rose for (insert purpose here). No David Austins please!'.

kind regards,
MeriBast.

Hi Meriblast,
Maybe its the publicity machine.Most of us could reel out David Austin,s releases in Australia for the last 10 years,but I doubt that we could ( Lozza excluded)do the same with Meillands,Mgredy's(sp)Giullot's Australian releases.If I stated that all Meillands hi-centred hybrid teas look alike,would that be a sensible statement?
Puzzled Pam.

People, and Aussies in particular, also love to bring a successful person down a peg or two

I get annoyed about the ongoing rush of newbies when some of the really lovely older ones get dumped uncermoniously. I refer to Moonbeam, beautiful, tough, sensational garden rose, which is hard to obtain unless you go to the right places, and The Prioress, still flowering after many years in my garden, although now there are lookalike Prioresses out under different names.
So many come out with humungous publicity, without the time to really tell how they perform under garden conditions.
You rush out and buy it, and turns out to be spindly and sparing of bloom.
I do like Golden Celebration's flowers, but the lax habit drives me nuts - yet it was never described as such early - and dumb me planted them as a hedge..

I have varied on and off from being an Austin fan. The breeding program is certainly sophisticated now, but I think they've wasted more than a little credibility by putting out new varieties that are too similar to the old ones. Every so often they come up with a gem.

You could say the same of Kordes and Jackson & Perkins, but their roses are largely HT and it's harder to pick up repetitiveness when 90% of the industry is breeding HTs!

The Australian market has its own ideas about what stands the test of time. It's refreshingly independent from what Austin believes is good or bad, and we have our climate to explain the difference. I was amazed by a small nursery at Dural, Green E Plants, which carried 1960s Austins I'd thought had long gone - including The Knight and Constance Spry.

The moral of the story is: try the new Austins if you like. You may get lucky - I did with Jubilee Celebration - but for the guaranteed winners you need to wait a few years to see what stays on the sellers' lists.

Wildeve is a total dud. Have trialled it for almost a year now- a pre release plant from a supplier - and basically it's useless. Wishy washy, small pale pink flowers on very lax stems and very, very disease prone in our climate. The last I heard the distributors weren't very happy being stuck with it.
Generally I admire a lot of Austin's stuff but agree that he is now repeating himself over and over. Probably market driven, with his company looking for new stuff every year to shove down the ever gaping maw of the "miraculous new release" rose buyers. But what the heck the hybrid tea producers repeat themselves year after year so why not Uncle Dave? Maybe not Austin's personal choice for the company to be heading in this direction but I guess the money's nice. In his dotage he can sit by the fire, sip his elderberry wine, read his fan mail and watch his bank balance grow while his reputation slowly declines. But he will have left a legacy of some great roses.
Daniel is right Jubilee Celebration is a lovely rose. Grab it if you can. Larry

I wonder when Dongara Brothers is gonna re-open shop?*grin*
regards
sandie

I love the look of DAs roses but get frustated at the leaning over/weak stems where the flower droops facing the ground!
I have a wonderful vase which supports the head of DAs and I use that for inside the home.
Otherwise I have some great DAs.Fab colour and beautiful perfume.
cheers

Please indulge me for a moment while I get this "look alike" thing off my chest and out of my brain.
I think the phrase was originally used to describe the similarities between David Austin's English Roses and the old Heritage Roses,not so much the colour and bush shape but the flower form and the perfume.
Maybe the Tall Poppy thing reduced it to its now disparaging term?
I feel better now!
Pam.

Well, the old saying that you can please some of the people some of the time and most of the people none of the time goes with rose growers too!
I have over 50 Austins and they each have there own traits and perfumes. None of them have disappointed me.
I also have over 50 heritage roses and teas etc, none of them disappoint me either. I have never shovel pruned, but then have large property.
All in all have over 700 different varieties and am continually amazed by there beauty and form.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, attitude makes the difference.
I never fuss or folior spray, I rarely water them, throw organic fertilizer at them, only have to do a few for blackspot in wet spring and pruning is easy!
Rose Lady

Rose Lady,such a pleasure to read your post.
Pam.