good one goldhills,

yes the decimation of our forest and bushland habitat that is it! now if only the masses would remove their heads from the sand bucket and realise that, i'm living in one of those new fad macmansion suburbs where there isn't a tree of note within cooee and the only way a kingfisher can escape a marauding crow is to crash into, a window and end up dead.

yes cut with the water excess gardens plant trees and shrubs of the native indemic types, and yes as that asian philosopher 'fukuoka' says plant the trees and the rain will come.

so out with the cottage gardens and the lawns of lush green getting mowen twice a week and in with tree and shrub gardens.

i agree those native tree gardeners should be encouraged by councils as should those who go the extra step and invest in heaps of mulch to retain moisture.

len

I agree too that we need more trees, that is why we have planted so many on this block...We have got no lawn but plenty of grass that never gets watered nor do we have concrete driveways that a lot of people seem to hose down or swimming pools so don't waste water that way, all the bath water goes on the plants at the side of the house or out the back..My big indulgence is my roses and if I have to let them go thirsty and perhaps die, well so be it. Roses are like a pep up pill to me, when you are feeling a little low or perhaps not the best health wise there is nothing nicer than a vase of fresh flowers to cheer you up. Same as in the garden I need colour I know there are plenty of Native that flower and I have some.

Sorry Everyone but I do not want a garden full of Natives after all variety is the spice of life, lots of my plants are non natives that do not get much water I never water the Bougainvillea, Hibiscus,( not the grafted ones ) Frangipani, Canna Lilies, Calliandra, Bamboo, Acalypha, Agapanthus, Plumbago, Jacaranda Oleander just to name a few, at this time of the year as the small amount of rainfall we have had does manage to keep them alive now that they are getting bigger though I will water them in the Dry Season

On the other hand I am watering a few of my natives especially the Lemon scented and Grey Myrtle, they like a drink and there are a few other native trees I have planted that are only about 60-90cms high that have to be pampered a little yet so still get the occasional watering. I do water my Gerberas, and Dahlia's and day lilies get a drink sometimes too plus those Roses..So apart from them I tried to grow plants that are more waterwise, with the others they have had about 30 cms of sugar came mulch on them, which will have to be topped up real soon, but I am trying and wont let my Roses die, unless I cannot carry a bucket of water anymore....Cheers...MM.

Amazing really, every time I hear Peter Beattie on about the thousands of new people moving to Brisbane, and they are talking of building high rise "rabbit burrows" for them to move into and all expecting water in their taps, toilets and , in places too many when you fly over Brisbane and environs,
the patches of pure water that are the swimming pools all merrily evaporating and needing to be filled with more pure water.
The small blocks of land with monstrous houses where it is only possible to grow short shrubs and a bit of lawn, and all you see are tiled roofs as you drive past.
Yes, in times gone by, Farmers did clear too much land but , in the case of the Brigalow developements, they were told to clear the country as part of the land ballots.
Most farmers care for their land and keep trees along the roadways and in clumps of vegetation for shade and wind breaks and most are taking good care of their land.

When the only water available is what you have to supply and maintain yourself it doesn't take long to work out what garden will be satisfying and water wise to live with.

You may have quessed I am a retired farmer's wife by now .

I am lucky to have the area to be able to plant trees and do, but not all of them are natives as I seem to have more trouble with them than some non natives. I reckon if it has a green top it will surely be helping the environment in some way.

Marion

I just re read my post and realised I didn't answer your question GW.

In this area there are 1800 new house blocks being developed and it is quite scary really when you see some established garden gradually dying from lack of water because the bores are running dry and a new house going up and the owners are merrily planting gardens with lawns and such, using bores that have not enough water for their hopes of a new green garden.

Yeppoon is going ahead with great cement houses and not enough water.
Gladstone is doing the same with heavy water using industries as well as houses .
Roackhampton has run out of flat land to build on so the houses are gradually climbing up the mountainside, looking down on the mighty Fitzroy river that supplies it with water and now the talk is it will be supplying Yeppoon and maybe Gladstone in the future.

I really feel for those of you now on water restrictions that will really test your endurance and love of some really special plants, and hope that you don't loose too many of them.

I look at our dam, which due to a lucky storm, filled up before Christmas this year, and is now evaporating quite quickly with all the heat and hot winds, and thinking to myself "Well maybe I won't go out and buy Roses this year" just in case it dries up before the next fill.

Maybe I am being a bit contovercial when I say that maybe we have enough people in Australia at the moment, until we find ways to water and feed them without using the best small crop country to build houses on.

Marion

I'm glad to see others think the same. I don't think it really matters what we plant, whether natives or not. Surely any vegetation is better than none.

MM, we all need our special plants. I have a few special tropicals that aren't what you call waterwise but the majority are. I hope your roses make it through the dry though roses are tougher than they look. I would certainly miss seeing your photos of them.

Marion, I agree with you. I'm not anti-farmer, give me a farmer any day, they are some the best people. I may have been born in the city but I'm country at heart, my mother always told me to marry a farmer (no, I didn't but both husbands were from country towns). I meant many years ago before it was realised the damage clearing caused. Most farmers now are trying their best.

They subdivided some of the land around here into 1 acre blocks and there is no room for a dam and the houses only have 1 tank. Specially designed for city people who want a rural lifestyle. The water truck visits these houses on a regular basis. At least they have to pay for it. We have only bought water twice since we've been here (about 7yrs) and we only have 1 tank. The 1st time was shortly after we moved here and there wasn't much water to start with and the 2nd time a pipe burst underground and the first we knew 1/3 of a tank of water had disappeared.

I think recycling water is the way cities have to go, even if it isn't for drinking but at least for flushing toilets, etc.

I read somewhere a couple of years ago that at this rate Brisbane to Gympie will be all housing in 20 years. Some of our best agricultural land will be under concrete, and where will the water come from? Who knows.

I just noticed everyone who posted so far is qld so I feel a bit out of place!

"Gardeners should be encouraged to plant more."

I agree goldhills, it also helps to control CO2 levels

"lots of my plants are non natives that do not get much water I never water the Bougainvillea, Hibiscus,( not the grafted ones ) Frangipani, Canna Lilies, Calliandra, Bamboo, Acalypha, Agapanthus, Plumbago, Jacaranda Oleander just to name a few,"

I have to agree with mm on that too, there are some very drought tolerant non natives and the birds seem quite keen on some of them, over here in summer when little else is flowering in the heat, the little honeyeaters are all over my pomegranate tree and Im glad it gives them some food during the leanest part of the year for them.

"The small blocks of land with monstrous houses where it is only possible to grow short shrubs and a bit of lawn, and all you see are tiled roofs as you drive past."

I agree with ashmeri that this is a real problem and something that worries me about the future. all this high density living doesnt allow for trees or much greenery and this cant be good for the environment. It is happening a lot in my area where they are tearing down old houses and gardens and putting up multiple houses on each block. you never see birds in these gardens because theres just nothing there for them, no trees, no food, no water, and I wonder what the birds would do if it wasnt for the other gardens in our street where there the birds can find food and tree to live in. In the future, I can see my neighbourhood becoming a barren wasteland as more of the trees and gardens get ripped up for development.

I do think governments have a role to play though, the population is always increasing and you either have to stop that or provide solutions. Our water corporation let our dam levels get down to 17% before they brought in water restrictions, which was terrible, and in spite of the fact that they are posting record profits since they brought in the water restrictions, they have continued to put up the annual water rates (which has nothing to do with how much water you use), and there has been no talk of giving us back our free water allowance that we used to get as part of our water rates. so they are slogging us on the annual water rates and then charging us for every bit of water we use, I dont know how that saves water either because every house has to use water for showering, washing, cooking etc, but we dont get that allowance anymore. Im sorry len, but at least over here, I think the water authority is rubbing their hands together all the way to the bank. they were talking about relaxing the water restrictions, but most people over here seemed against it, I use very little water and Im paying a fortune each year in various water rates, so Len, I think in principal you have a good point but there needs to be a sense of fairness where the water corps are concerned, and Im not feeling the...

The problem is that local governments sell their water, so if they put their rate-payers on restrictions, they are not getting the money! This means the water authorities will try to guess the season and keep as close as possible to the line which divides; no water for people and getting paid for the water.

Most environmental problems like this could be fixed if the money equation was removed. For example; Here there is a huge problem with people dumping garden waste in the local forest. The council charges about $16 a trailer-load to take garden waste to the tip, so what do they expect!? Make it free to take garden waste to the tip, or give ratepayers 3 'free' tickets a year for 3 trailer-loads of garden waste. No-one would drive all the way out here if it was free to take waste to the tip. Problem solved.

i think robyn!

the profit reapers of our uitilities and resources (water) look upon water saved as money in the bank it can be used as collaterol, and it can be sold to other sources. if i recall quiet a few years ago victoria was having power shortages and outages yet the profit taker was selling power to i think nsw and tas'.

like a rural person up in arms about the "sun-water legislation" in qld, saying that the administrator was wasting water by preffering it ran down into the sea/ocean, but the profit-takers see the ocean as their bank of water that is where evaporation occurs and gives rain and also they can set up stations to make fresh water from sea water, and the end user (though we realy use very little of wate produced at least 80% goes to industry etc and less than 2% gets used for drinking) will pay the price.

you can see that happening now as each year local administrators level higher and higher water charges against the hapless home-owner resident, they will make more profit from less supply. we will/are pay(ing) for industry and big irrigators those broad-acre farmers the killers of environment and habitat the profit pirates. so we pay double we pay for their excesses in water usage and we pay for their product on the shlef though most of it is 12 months fresh before we get it.

len

Here is a link that might be useful: lens garden page

I feel that as much as I sympathise with the theory that planting more trees leads to higher rainfall, I do not see it solving our water problems. Also I do not understand Robyn's post.

As far as I am concerned, global warming is the main contributor to the marked change in the weather patterns. Sure, we will inevitably return to better rainfall conditions but these dry spells are sure to get worse. We have been told countless times by scientists that we are moving into uncharted waters when it comes to future weather patterns. Also notice how the Âclimate conservatives hate using the term global warming and prefer the more vague term, climate change?

I agree with Len on the profligate use of water in our country areas. While many farmers have excellent practices in water conservation and use, many others are blatantly obscene in the way they accumulate water for use on the most water hungry of crops (cotton!!) in regions where water is a very scarce resource. Cubby station comes to mind, where as a result of diverting river flows into huge reservoirs, vital vegetation is dying out on vast floodplains downstream. (Maybe you have to live in NSW to read about this).

In my opinion water is far too cheap in Australia; we should be paying a lot more. This continent is one of the driest on the planet and yet we tend to consume water far too excessively. Very few of our cities recycle when so many European cities with much higher rainfalls, have been recycling water for ages. Only recently have we been encouraged to use rainwater tanks for watering our gardens when we should have been doing it long ago. If we wish to grow water hungry plants, then we should be prepared to find ways to capture extra water off our roofs and use it along with grey water.

Robert it is appalling to think that people are even trying to grow cotton in such areas! You are right, we don't hear much about it in southern Vic. It probably isn't considered newsworthy or sensational :-(
You would need to be a local here in Creswick, or at least in Ballarat, to know that water is a hot political issue here in Creswick, even in a climate that allows the grass to stay green year round. The Central Highlands water company have effectively stolen a reservoir full of water for their own use. This reservoir was built from ratepayers levy money, and would provide creswick well into the future. It was handed over to the CHW on privatisation, and with the sweetener of a large amount of money ($3M is the figure I heard) for them to upgrade our filtration system to provide Crswick with a better quality water. Instead CHW sold off all the Creswick assets (buildings), kept the money, took us off Cosgrove res, and now pump water over the divide from Ballarat. They are about to start building a pipeline to pump water to Ballarat from Cosgrove, with no mention of a limit. This is going to result in environmental damage downstream - platypus, and other wild life will be affected. The popular tourist lake downstream will likely turn into a swamp for part of the year. The cost was only a few thousand dollars difference to upgrade the filtration plant and put us back on our own water on level 1 restrictions.
The whole community here is up in arms.
CHW have "generously" offered to pay for a pipeline direct to lake Wendouree in Ballarat, to fill the lake with recycled water. Of course they benefit from this, as it will allow them to sell recycled water all along the way to the industries which are conveniently located along the pipeline.
where profits are the main concern, private companies simply don't give a damn (0r a dam?) about the environment, people or the communities they live in.
It just should not be up to such people to control water. I'm sure there were many insufficiencies when it was all government run, but it was at least still some hope that they might think of more than just $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Everyone has made good points. I think we should all run for gov't :) then we wouldn't have any problems.

It all comes down to greed. It is a shame they can't use tanks for drinking water in the cities, they could just run recycled water through the pipes for everything else then. Population caps might be a good idea in some areas that are getting too crowded. There seems to be a lot of part solutions which all have to be brought together to work but that would never happen as it sounds like commonsense not money-sense.

Robert, I realise that planting more trees won't solve our water problem but it certainly won't hurt and may help a little in the long term. When it comes to global warming, I won't go into that as I have done a lot of reading on that (not in the gossip mags either) and I've yet to be convinced one way or the other about it.

Goldhills,

Just today in The Sydney Morning Herald.

'The former US president Bill Clinton last week described it (climate change) as "the only thing that could end civilisation and make all else irrelevant", while the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, said it was the biggest threat facing the planet.'

Sadly, you would be hard pressed to rely on experts other than the ones Blair and Clinton have consulted.

Essential services should NEVER be privatised.
ESSENTIAL SERVICES SHOULD NEVER BE PRIVATISED!!!!
yes I am shouting.

Robert, I did say I wsn't getting into this but I should have clarified things a bit. I meant the threat of global warming - is it really as big a threat as the media portrays eg sea levels originally predicted to rise 1.5m recently revised to an estimate of between rise of 20cm and a fall of 10cm. Some areas sea levels have actually fallen. The Earth has always had hot and cold cycles and no doubt always will.

What we are doing doesn't help and we can do a lot to improve things but we can't turn back time. Are we all prepared to live in the stone age?

I recently read somewhere (can't remember where and it would take me ages to find it) that actually planting more trees is worsening the greenhouse effect as it has been discovered that plants actually release about 30% of methane that was originally blamed on the poor cows, etc.

We should all just keep an open mind and remember that the media like to exaggerate, especially bad news.

hi goldhills, for me the most compelling evidence is a scientist couple who have been studying ice caps and taking ice core samples for years and studying them. what they can see in these ice core samples are the levels of gases in the atmosphere which get trapped in the ice, and by the depth of the samples they can actually look back hundreds of thousands of years. in these samples, they have noticed a dramatic change in the levels of different gases in the ice over the last 50 years, deeper and older ice samples dont have anything like this, so it's pretty compelling evidence. It is also very coincidental that the changes in the ice coincide with things like the industrial revolution and polution levels, population levels etc. just my thoughts

trancegemini

I agree with you TG I think Industrial polution and car exhausts are causing more problems than anything, Industry pollutes the air as well as the water, and some of the trucks I see driving around should be banned they belch out so much smoke and fumes..There are so many cars on the roads now and you see as many as five and six in every driveway..Maybe if the Goverment built a better transport system some people would leave their cars at home.. If we want to go anywhere we have to drive the car to a station to catch a train no busses here so all of this is adding to Globel Warming also.. And GH I reckon us people on the GW site would have more idea on how to run this beautiful country than our pollies will ever have....Cheers...MM.

Denying global warming is a bit like the misinformation and millions of dollars spent by the tobacco industry fighting the links between smoking and lung cancer or folk like CSR and James Hardie's denials regarding the effects of asbestos.

The facts are overwhelming that environmental change is being caused by the consumption of fossil fuels. How much and what sort of damage might well be debatable, but it is undeniably occurring. Yet we keep on finding ways of avoiding the inevitable by muddying the waters. Regarding methane; the methane released by trees has always occurred and is balanced by the many other benefits that trees provide. Methane released from rice growing and more importantly, the thawing Tundra in Canada and Russia makes the amount coming from trees, piddling.

and trees soak up most of those air borne pollutants, think about it trees live for carbon, hand in glove stuff realy. but at the end of the day the little people will pay and most of us can't afford it, like the following paragraph indicates, oh and when we are paying and things are still getting worse they'll blame something else and levy more costs to the little people.

did you see the news last nigh (channel 7 i think), some so called expert calling for higher water charges (bet he has vested interests hey?) to stop water wastage, and then admitting that the extra cost won't be noticed by the av' person so it becomes cream in the bucket of profit doesn't it?? and when they determine that wastage is still going on they will call for higher and higher charges.

now they realy must think that the masses are pretty silly hey? or that the common folk forget easily. here is some of the figures they tell us in the past.

around 80 or so % of water goes to industry.

of all water produced councils use/waste about 10% of it mostly through broken mains.

we have been looking for a home to buy and have not yet seen any blatant water waste in our travels outside of what the council and industry create that is. lots of brown lawns and very few lush lawns, maybe they should target these so called wasters and levy them with the bill?

have a look around with eyes wide open:

boat ramps bet boat owners from other sub's/area's can still flush moters and rinse trailors off free of charge with tapped water!!??

these trades people who use water when cutting cement etc.,. bet they don't pay for that water then gets wasted and bet they use more than they realy need to? drove past one yesterday water/mud/slush all over the road.

so if we the home owners are using something less than 20% of produced water we can't be held responsible for running the dams dry can we???

and when does it get to dear for poor people to afford?

the only wastage as i see it is in how homes are designed multiple baths/showers & toilets, all encourages using that bit extra water doesn't it, not to mention those big automatic washing machines.

and of course home design doesn't make it easy to capture and re-use water does it, but all of this will only help the homeowner keep gardens going in the huge picture it will be little more than a pebble splash in the lake of misinformation and incorrect blame.

len

Hey Len if you got to go, well you cannot use more than one toilet at a time having two in a home does not make you use more water just makes it more convenient especially when two people want to go at the same time... And what is wrong with big Auto Washing machines...I have a huge one 8kg with no pulsator in the middle and I only use it on a high load and wait till I get it too, one of my daughters has a 5kg machine and does two loads every day never full..So Iam not the one wasting water here actually I am saving it by having that bigger washing machine. Sorry Len you have to look at it from a female point of view not only does it save water, it saves electricity and work as well....Cheers...MM.

Robert you obviously didn't read what I said properly. I am not denying global warming but that the threat has been greatly exaggerated by media, etc. There is plenty of evidence if you are prepared to look for it. I was a bit like you a couple of years ago and then I opened my eyes.

Yes, fossil fuels are doing a lot of damage but is everyone prepared to give up their cars, grow all their own needs and hunt wildlife for food (raw as fires/smoke leads to global warming as well), live in un-airconditioned caves, give up tvs and computers - do I need to go on.

In regards to trees and methane - I was just trying to show you how things get twisted. If you read my original post I am saying we should be planting more trees.
We just have to use our commonsense and if everyone does their own little bit we can help - turn off your air conditioner, walk to the shops if possible, etc.

That is the last I'm saying on global warming, they are my thoughts and we all have our own opinions. The original post was about wasting water not global warming.

I use an 8kg auto washing machine as I only need to do 1 load compared to 2 or more in a twin tub. As MM says, it saves water, time and electricity.

I used to say I would never get a dishwasher as they wasted too much water until I found that some use less. I bought one last year, it uses 14L water and most of the time I only do 1 load a day. Washing-up by hand uses at least 2-3 times that amount over a day. The dishwasher also uses less power than the hotwater system to warm the water and I turn it off before the drying stage to allow the dishes to air dry.

I had to laugh the other day when I saw some suggestions on saving water. It said to shorten your showers by 5 minutes - if I or my family did that we wouldn't get wet at all. I can't believe it takes longer than 5mins to wash yourself thoroughly.

Does anyone have any special or particular way that they save water or hints that others may not know?

Just heard on the news today that Victorians have saved a record amount of water this year. Now I'm not sure how they measure the quantity actually saved - LOL, but it sounds as if we are doing a good job.
Personally i find it ludicrous that the local water supplier advises us to be sure not to dribble any water on the lawn as we move from garden bed to garden bed with our hoses. At the same time they tell us we can wash our cars with a bucket of water, but rinse them off with a trigger nozzle hose. Now no limit is given for the time spent rinsing, and comparing that the the amount I might dribble between garden beds - well!
How do I personally save water? I have very short showers - usually 1 to 2 minutes, maybe 3 for a hair wash. I DON'T wash my car. I mulch heavily to save the need for water on the garden. I grow plants that don't require a great amount of water, and I live in an area where the rainfall is reasonably high.
My personal favourite bit of water misery is - when i want hot water for a saucepan, I run the first lot of water from the tap into a saved 2 litre bottle. I keep these full bottles under the sink, and take 2 of them each day to give water to my chooks.
I also have plastic crates under all my outside taps to collect any water leaking while a hose is in use. This water goes to my dogs, local birds, possums, snakes, whatever. I also dip a bucket into the full crates to put water on trees etc.
I use a front load washing machine, whcih doesn't use much water at all, and I don't use a dishwasher at all. I do however, wash our clothes more often than they really need :-) I only fill the sink on average once every day, sometimes less, so 14 litre would be more than I would need for a load of dishes for 2 or 3 people.
TV I could give up easily, and the air con I only use a couple of days a year, and then only a few hours. After a wasted 5 hour trip in my car, I might consider decreasing my driving commitments in future.

Goldhills - I read an article recently concering the fashion in English towns, for people to concrete their front yards, for parking. The concern is one of environment, and aesthetics, plus the fact that it doesn't actually create much extra parking space. Might be something if you do a google search for that. The article was in new scientist magazine.

I'm afraid surveys do show that the more bathrooms in a house and the more water using appliances, the more water gets used. Four people living in a house with 2 bathrooms use more water than four people living in a house with 1 bathroom. Why? Well there's nothing like someone knocking on the bathroom door to make you hurry up. Seriously though, the larger your house the more money you have, the more money you have the more clothes you buy which you change more often and therefore do more washing. The more money you have the more you entertain, the more water you use cleaning your house, (plus a second shower and clean change of clothes for you before the guests arrive). And afterwards? Well there's more stuff to go in the dishwasher whether it's a low water using one or not. There are many more examples of how the more money we have the more water (and everything else) we use.

We just can't escape the fact that the more affluent we become the more our impact on the earth. We have to stop pointing the finger of blame at everyone else and look at what WE are doing.

Saving water: As we have an over bath shower I insist that everyone puts the plug in before they bathe and than bucket out after for use on potted plants and gardens around the house - the plants have never had it so good and are flourishing. Wash up in the sink and only once a day-so what if there is a big stack of dishes. We do have an above ground pool (30000Litres) and since the kids stopped using it we stopped chlorinating and filtering and added goldfish which have bred extremely well. No mosquito problems - The water is clean and we have floated a large piece of reclaimed shadecloth on top of styro boxes over the top to reduce evaporation and discourage the blue cranes which love goldfish. This has solved the evaporation problem - we have not had to top up at all and we have a reservoir of water for fire fighting if necessary. All washing water is directed onto the garden and so far (11 years) has only killed an azalea which is no surprise. I only ever use half the recomended amount of laundry detergent, and never use any other cleaning agents except bi carb and elbow grease. We do not wash our cars unless it is raining. I do think all new houses should be built with a large inground water storage tank under the house/slab. This should not add a large amount to the cost if it was well designed. What do you think?
If every house recycled just their washing water to flush toilets this would make a significant reduction in water use by householders. Perhaps govts could bankroll such systems to make them available to all!!!!!

good one plantsplus,

sharing bath's or bath water will even save you more water, we ahve found we can both wash using around 50 litres of water, and in cases where the water is still clean looking though soapy we use that to wash clothes.

we don't flush urine we bucket it and add it to water to make more fluid to share around the agrden at best we only generate around 5 litres of urine per day, if you wanted you could empty the bucket every 12 hours.

would suggest yiou try the washing soap recipe on our site and we only buy that earth triendly detergent to wash our dishes and for us 2 that is about 1 wash taking 10 litres of water every second day sometimes third day.

the twin tub washing machine and rinsing uses around 90 liters of water to do 3 loads once a week this all goes to the agrden, we often put clothes into the bath water and rinse them daily savres heaps and power as well.

sorry about typo's in a rush most aren't doing as much as they could do to save water if it's not taking a fair amouint of effort and is happening too comfortably then that is what i mean not enough being done.

len

Here is a link that might be useful: lens garden page

There is NO WAY I would bath in anyone's else's water after working on our block. Thats ok for the kids. Shower with a friend that's different too, at least the water coming from the shower is clean.. Really I think some of you people go beyond the extreme after all this is 2006. We don't pee in a bucket in the city...Even Hubby arked up when he seen that and he is from the UK.. Hubby doesn't mind letting the dishes pile up in the dishwasher for 2 days so we get a full load...I don't mind letting the clothes pile up to get a full load..I put a bucket under the kitchen tapfor rinsing the veggies and plates..All the hand washing rinsing water goes on the garden...Those very small twin tubs use more water for three loads of washing than my one big load used so you also use two thirds more power,( or are you using the same water to wash and rinse the three loads ) thats is something I wont do and then there is the man power I have better things to do of a day then take washing out of one tub and put it into another..( Your choice) Last Year I bought a front loader from Kleenmaid it danced all over the timber floors so Kleenmaid gave me my money back and I bought another top loader I also hated waiting nearly two hours for the load to finish my big top loader take 40 minutes for a dirty load a lot less or lightly soiled load. ( So I reckon it uses less power ) I think as long as everyone is pulling their weight here and not wasting water that is the main thing providing it is in a Hygienic Way...Cheers..MM.

I agree with you MM about having to wait nearly 2 hours for the front load to finish. Nothing could be worse - standing there, twiddling your thumbs. Boring!
No I refuse to wait - I just pop the washing in, turn it on, and go away and forget about it, find something else to do. Before you know it's done!
I have used a twintub when my eldest was a baby, and we had tank water. I found it brilliant for conserving water - I did the whites first, the other clothes second and the nappies last. The water went on my vegies. we had only a small tank and never had to have it filled, but bathing in 3" of water wasn't a lot of fun :-(
I think the English had the right idea in the 1900's. Bathe once a month whether you need it or not! (Pew!!)
I think recycling the grey water to flush the toilet should be an available (or even compulsory) option in all households.

I hope I did not give you the impression I waited for 2 hrs for the machine I did not mean that..It was a daylight factor we both shower or bath late afternoon after a day on the block we need it and the washing machine is going when we are cooking dinner and eating it, so I can put the clothes on the line while it is still daylight and they would be dry in the morning but that front loader took so long it was dark and the mozzies are out then, so I had to put them on the line in the morning when normally they would have been dry by then...

Had a e-mail yesterday from my B-I-L in the UK, up near the Scotish border across from the Lakes District moaning that their local goverment is going to stop them watering their Lawns soon...So its not only here there are water problems...MM.

How I wish I only had to wash up for a couple of people. Four kids and 2 adults use a lot of dishes, even worse when we have visitors or it's baking day. I had to wash-up at least twice a day. Having too many dishes at once means having to refill the sink as the water gets too cold and greasy. For us the dishwasher saves water as it fits a normal day of dishes in 1 load. I normally wait for a full load but if necessary I use the half load option, usually when I have extra baking dishes.

My 2 younger kids shower together but the older ones refuse now - getting to that age :) Showering with my husband is fun :) but only in summer as he likes cool showers and I like hot (I hate the cold). All our greywater goes on the garden. I would like to use it for the toilet but the costs involved to set it up are too much at the moment. At least we can use dam water.

I have to use the washing machine most days as the kids refuse to run around naked :), but always make sure I have a full load and like MM's machine it is economical to use.

We do all the usual when it comes to buckets in the sink when washing hands, etc. The only things that get watered regularly are young plants in the vegie garden and pots when necessary.

Gosh Len, I hope you don't get any unexpected visitors wanting to use the bathroom. I don't think I'd cope too well if I came across a wee bucket in the corner.
Call me a city girl, but I'd rather wash in a teacup than a bathfull of second hand water.

The issue of saving water pre-occupies us a lot these days. But water issues are now a big issue world wide. We are by no means the only country in drought.

So here in our own backyards, are we saving, recycling, and/or storing water for the next few months, years or forever. Are the dams really going to fill up and if they do, when will the next drought be over? Will we blame whatever government is in power for not having the foresight to make provisions for the eventuality?

In my first post on this subject(Feb 25th) I gave my opinions about wasting water and I have no wish to repeat myself. If we are intending to save water permanently then a major rethink is required by everyone including us "wise gardeners".

I am actually all for city dwellers living in higher density housing. Not everyone wants a garden and if a greater number of people occupy a smaller footprint on the planet then good on them. If we all have suburban type backyards then the urban sprawl will just gobble up more and more land. One of the Aussie faults is the demand for the suburban block that more often is just reluctantly mowed on the weekend. Sadly some of the best land that supplied cities with their fresh food is now suburban blocks.

I agree that the macmansions are awful but how do you legislate to stop it? To persuade people occupying the suburban sprawl to allow higher density housing is an explosive issue. So unfortunately we go on spreading out, occupying more land and cutting down more trees.

All that water that flows off the streets and concrete backyards into the sea, should be retained in some way. In some new suburbs of Sydney they have built underground tanks to store some of this runoff for watering the parks. We need a lot more of this.

The "experts" tell us that the recent heavy rains along the NSW coast at present are mainly due to the abnormally warm sea temperatures. Unfortunately the rain is not going too far inland although the winemakers in the Hunter Valley must be cursing as their grapes certainly do not need this rain right now. I have luckily just got extra tanks and have been running round filling them up.

Goldhills : Regarding you comments on my statements about global warming. I did read what you wrote and I believe I understand you clearly. If you do not wish to continue the debate I suggest you cease ending your comments to me with statements that ridicule my comments.

If the only way to deal with Global warming is to "give up their cars, grow all their own needs and hunt wildlife for food (raw as fires/smoke leads to global warming as well), live in un-airconditioned caves, give up tvs and computers" as you wrote, it does not indicate an informed person as you claim to be. These kind of statements are unhelpful. I certainly do not expect you to agree with me. I do believe we need to be pragmatic and treat our contributions seriously.

If we that agree that global warming is occurring, it follows...

You don't see many Macmansions here in the upper Mountains which probably has something to do with building restrictions here that limit the size of homes. For a start the maximum cut and fill is 900 ml, with no cut and fill allowed on some blocks. The maximum height is 8 mtrs from natural ground (7.4 for our block), and there is a limit on the amount of land you can develop* - 40% when we built our house a few years ago but it has been reduced even more since then. Obviously in an area where there is a shortage of flat land these restrictions work very well to limit the size of houses. Councils in other areas would need to work out what best suits them. It can be done and probably already is being done by many of your local councils. You just don't find out about it until you go to build.
*Means all land covering surfaces including sheds, decks, paths and driveways.

Before I start, I beg you not to take this the wrong way.

The places with the worst water and man made drought problems and children dying of starvation seem to need a bit of birth control, sadly there is none and we are continually asked for donations to help save these poor little ones in the short turm, but what happens to them when they are so physically affected by the starvation,

I heard someone who should have thought more, saying that Australia had the land mass to accommodate many millions more human beings .
That person was from a University lecturing on climate control and such and he got me to wondering if he thought about the lack of water in this wonderful country now and which government he was going to blame when this place was the desert he was talking of bringing all theses people from.

In my mind the Human Beings of this world are the biggest threat to climate change than anything else.

New people in our old district built a new house and to everyones amazement they built a large water reservoir under it with the house on top, everyone thought how strange and would it get musty and damp and such, but now, 30 years later the water is good and there is no damp and must and it is such a good idea.
Can you imagine all the Macmansions with their own underground water, wouldn't that be a wonderful space saving way to contain water.
Marion

yes marion,

you ae right we simply can't keep populating and hope for cliamte improvement. but it needs to be done through education not regulation. education works well our gov' has educated young girls that it is very financialy benficial to have babies (we may need to clean up ur won backyard first?) as soon sa you can. see lot of very young girls even out with their mums following this pursuit, beats getting a job hey?

and yes if those macmansions had to have an under home reservoir that would add the the cost dramatically hey? but then they may be forsced into building more affordable and sustainable compact homes even 2 story as against single story sprawl.

wattleblossom,

yes there should be more control over building and land sizes, this council now seeing the light a little blocks now can't be divided under 600 sq/mtrs, but what do we do with blight of blocks in the high 300 to 4oo sq/mtrs sizes?

i reckon they should not be under say 750 sq/mtrs even maybe 800 sq/mtrs with home sprawl controls, lets have some land for tree planting and for the kids to play in, in these modern macmansion suburbs there are no parks of note so now kids play in the streets. think about it homes in the mid to high 200 sqm/mtr sprawl size on 600 sq/mtr block doesn't add up for yard space does it?

we have just gone through the exercise of looking for a home (not sprawled) on a 740 or so sq/mtr block, and guess waht so are a lot of other astute buyers, owners of small blocks having diabolicle problems selling their places. no room for kids, trees and if you put in a pool or outdoor social area even less room for the aforementioned.

len

Here is a link that might be useful: lens garden page

Regarding future rainfall for Australia: The ABC, on their science program had this great article on a new El Nina forming off the coast of South America, leading to more rain for us.

You can read the whole article at this web address: http://abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1584683.htm

"The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) says it has seen unprecedented signs pointing to La Niña, which originates off the western coast of South America but can disrupt weather patterns around the globe.....
Under La Niña, the sea-surface temperature in the central and eastern tropical Pacific falls below normal. This typically brings far dryer weather to the southwestern US, Florida and western Latin America and above-average rainfall to Australia, Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines."

Hope it eventuates for us. Although what problems will it mean for the other side of the Pacific?

I really feel we are just tinkering around the edges when it comes to water management in Australia. It will need a serious shock for us to really change our lifestyles.

I realise some folks on these pages hate government interference but I feel that major legislative changes to reinforce the value of water will be needed. It should be mandatory for all houses to have on site water storage facilities (it is already happening in Sydney) and recycling should be a natural part of our water systems.

Farming methods are changing but there are still too many short sighted greedy practices. Our river systems need to be managed federally, as in general, each state is more interested in their own backyard and care less about down-stream problems (eg. The Murray, Darling River basin)

I personally believe the evidence is overwhelming that our environmental conditions will not go back to 'normal'. We will get periods of good rains where we will feel complacent again, but it will be momentary. Global temperatures are rising, even the most conservative folk agree with that now. Environmental evidence is now overwhelming that major changes in world weather patterns are with us forever, but how bad it will actually get for our kids is up to us.

This country is benefiting financially from the industrial booms in Asia by being the biggest exporter of fossil fuels (coal, gas etc.) and as a result is going to be seen as a major contributor to future evironmental problems. It is also the main reason why we will not sign the Kyoto accord.

Marion, The drought in East Africa is so unprecedented it would be difficult use the high birth rate as being the fault of the present famine. However in the horrendous conditions in the worst of Third world countries, high birth rates are unfortunately to be expected for the following reasons: birth control does not exist as it is far too expensive, mortality rates are so high and life is so hard it is in the interests of families to have more kids than normal as insurance for them to live longer (the younger...