Wow, the flame wars are still going on. But, it sure makes for an interesting read. Been too busy at work to follow them for a while. I still pose my previous question from a few days ago -- Where is all of this moral outrage when the animal being killed isn't cute, fuzzy, and something that showed up in a Disney movie? Other than one poster, no one seems to care about moles, voles, squash borers, slugs, etc., but they are all 'God's creatures' are they not? Perhaps it's symptomatic of the society we live in -- would the media follow the daily ups and downs of Britney, Paris, Tom-Kat, or BrAngelina if they weren't the 'beautiful people?' I think the animal rights bleeding hearts are only concerned about the cute, fuzzy little critters. Despite the fact that one poster seems to think I'm some kind of psychopathic serial killer because I put out poison bait blocks for the voles, it seems to me that I and the vast majority of the rest of the posters on here recognize the need to control vermin species when they get out of hand. If we don't keep things like mice, voles, rats, etc., under control, we'll all end up living in filth and disease as happened during the Middle Ages. And, in the real world, the only practical way to do this is often to kill them. It doesn't mean it's 'fun,' but sometimes, 'a man's gotta do ....' And, it isn't based on some deep, dark psychological 'need' to harm animals, its based on a simple, pragmatic desire to protect all of our hard work and our financial investment. Trust me, been there, done that, I really did have a blue heron eat $500 worth of koi in an afternoon. No, I didn't kill it or shoot it, I strung fishline all across the pond, which was a pain in the butt, but it worked to deter the herons. Had that not worked, in that case, I would have been screwed, because herons are protected under the Migratory Bird Act of 1919, no exceptions that I know of allow them to be killed. I did lose many of hundreds of dollars worth of plants to voles in the past few years. Some of them were figs and other woody plants I was overwintering in a deep trench under mulch. When I dug them out in the spring, I LITERALLY had sawdust, nothing else was left. So, I now put out, carefully, in nooks and crannies where pets and desirable wild animals can't get them, LOTS of poison bait blocks. It's expensive, and frankly I wish I didn't have to, but it's better than the alternative of being overrun with voles. The poison bait keeps them to a low level, but doesn't totally eliminate them. I had a filthy mouse invade my house a few years back. I won't be a hypocrit myself and deny that I didn't get some little sense of satisfaction in hearing the mousetrap go 'snap' when I finally got the mouse that moved into my kitchen cupboards, but I hardly think that makes me a depraved Jeffrey Dahmer type serial killer. There's a big difference between people who are killing 'vermin' species for a legitimate economic or health reason, and between those mentally disturbed or sociopathic individuals who do torture animals, usually domestic animals, for some sick reason. I think the vast majority of us know the difference between a vole or squirrel and the neighbor's cat. And, I don't see how taking a little satisfaction in eliminating a serious pest problem which has been plaguing you makes someone a bad person. Now, when you take it to the level of George W. going after Saddam Hussein on contrived charges, just to show up or show off to his daddy, well, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax, starting a war, killing thousands of people, and sinking this country into a political and economic quagmire. When it rises to that level, then, I think you can legitimately ask questions about someone's psychological makeup and mental stability. But, those of us shooting a squirrel or two to save our fruit trees don't exactly rise to the George W. level. I apologize to any Neocons and Bush supporters out there, dont' want to turn this into a purely political debate,just had to vent a bit and make that analogy. By the way, for the squirrel huggers out there, are you aware of the fact that some communities BAN or LIMIT the feeding of squirrels and other wild animals and birds BECAUSE feeding them is a public health and safety issue? Roseville, Michigan is one such community, and there are others. And, while rare, squirrels CAN transmit rabies, among other diseases. Finally, a couple of other thoughts. Lobster -- yum! And, as someone named Dave pointed out above, I don't know WHY I'm wasting my time arguing this with someone who very well might be some 14 year old idealist who has never lived in the real world. Ah, the joys of the 'net. Allenwrench -- you might really enjoy this forum. Check it out, seems to be right up your alley, based upon all of your recent posts: http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/ Dennis SE Michigan Dennis SE Michigan Here is a link that might be useful: I Dig My Garden Forums

Good Morning Idylls! Well, what a pleasant visit to the Idylls this a.m.! You guys had me laughing and smiling all the way through...what fun pics! I knew Deanne was feeling her oats as soon as I saw that pic of her holding the little maple tree! You looked so cute and what a mischievous look on your face..."Psst...Mary...look at this little maple...isnt it lovely?" "What?!?...smuggle it on the plane, Moi?!?...*Never*!" LOL! Youre too funny! Loved all the beautiful pics of your spring garden and your Sutherland Gold is doing wonderfully! I hacked mine way back last fall and much to my relief, is also doing well this spring. Its a gorgeous shrub and Im very happy with it too! Thank you Mary for sharing the pics of your get together. It was wonderful to see all your smiling faces and it looks as if fun was had by all. :-) Really enjoyed the spring walk through Maries garden too. The unfurling fronds on your Maidenhair fern were wonderful to see...nature is just astounding, isnt it? BTW, is that Bruces White phlox divaricata in the one pic with the grape hyacinths? What a gorgeous picture. I just planted Bruces White in my garden last year and they are still very teeny tiny plants, but one managed to flower and the flower looks very similar to those in your pic, so Im hoping yours is p. divaricata too. If it is, I am in for a real treat when my plants mature! Marian so glad you are feeling better dear friend! :-) I can hear the laughter in your voice and the smile on your face and it warms my heart! BTW, dont forget to let me know what you want to do with the myosotis...i.e. plants/seed, now or in the fall. Babs sorry to hear Ryans physical was worrisome. Like Marie, I also have a lazy eye (which the doctors didnt treat), but I have been lucky in that it has not affected my vision. Most of the time I dont even notice it, but if I am over tired, I do lose control of the muscles in that eye, which is more embarrassing than troublesome. Also, when I get pics taken, often I look like I am drunk and thats because that eye will close if there is a flash or the sun is too bright. Anyway, have you talked to the doctor yet about the risks and or the benefits of having surgery to correct the problem? Well Im sure you are doing your research (youre such a good mom) and I know you will make the right decision for Ryan, whatever that turns out to be. Re the blood in his urine. My son had that too, when he was just about Ryans age. Cant remember a lot about it anymore, but I do remember the doctor referring to it as "spilling sugar?" He told me that it was not uncommon in children and serious joggers too! I took the doctors word for it and as it turned out by the following spring Paul didnt seem to have the problem anymore. In retrospect, I wish I had been more informed and I think you are wise to find out more abut it too, if you can. In fact, if you *do* find out, I would be curious to know why it happens too and why, as the doctors say, "its nothing to worry about". Michelle your garden is looking lovely too! So tickled that T.E. has made an appearance at your house. BTW, I meant to tell you before, I like my street name too! LOL! It was great when I had the biz cause we used my home address as the biz address and you would be amazed how much confidence it instilled in our clients...LOL! Honey! It was great to see you! :-) And I am in love with your Acalypha! A few of us garden gals are making our second trip to Sunrise Nursery this week and I am definitely going to be looking for that plant! Cant wait to see how you combine it in your always lovely pot combinations! Sorry to hear your landscape designer was such a disappointment! Stick to your guns and/or find another landscaper. It makes me very unhappy when I hear about designers who dont listen to their clients...its just wrong! I always think of one of my ex-bosses clients, who loved the color red. I always felt sorry for him because every year he would ask to include red in his garden and every year my boss would refuse to listen (just because *she* hated the color red)! I thought that was a terrible thing to do to a client and always thought she should have compromised. I mean, Im sure there was some way she could have included some red in his garden, without insulting her own tastes. Okay, Ill get off my soap box now, it just that not listening to your clients needs and wants has always rubbed me the wrong way...I find it insulting! Of course, you hire a consultant because you want their knowledge and experience, but that doesnt mean that the *client* cant have good ideas too! BTW...we will be seeing lots of pot combinations here, wont we? Please? I so loved that last spring....what inspiration I found here! Did I mention too how much I enjoyed all the eye candy here today? Just beautiful everyone. Eden...Im so tickled a gardener whom I admire so much also loves Dicentra Gold Heart! I know some people feel it may be a little to bright, but not me! I think it is gorgeous and I absolutely swoon when in a good spring, it blooms with my Redbud tree! :-) You and Marian have mayapples too die for. Though Ive had mine for several years now, they still have not made a great show like yours. When I was working for a gardening service, one of her customers had a huge stand of them in the woodland part of her yard and it is an image that I carry with me all the time...just lovely! Well, maybe one day I will have a stand too! :-) Enjoyed seeing all your unusual plants. It amazes me how many plants I have yet to discover...LOL! Lauren! So enjoyed your pictures...just beautiful and the pic with the droplets on the leaf is really a work of art! Boy, we are so lucky here at the Idylls...so many wonderful photographers! Gorgeous pics from Sue too! My fothergilla is finally recovering after a couple of bad years where my husband completely buried it during snow removal...GRRR! BTW, Sue is that your new "do" I see? You look fabulous! New do or not I think your hair is beautiful and I need to know what you are doing to have such fabulously chiseled arms! Youre looking fabulous dahling! Well, Im going to keep this short, as I want to come back later and post pics of the trip to Arizona and my surprise on coming home in a separate post. I was going to post it all here, but then realized I had way too many pics. Ill be back here later, to do a better read! Have a great day all! Ei P.S. T that is *so* encouraging and a joy to see the honey bees! :-) P.P.S.S. Meant to tell you all I read "Shocking Beauty" while flying...wonderful book! Can't wait to get to my "Jewel Box" now! Thanks for the recommendation! Okay gotta go now...TTYL! Ei

We had a bad problem downtown, but the city did something about it. Before that, I had 3 hanging around, always kind of spooked me out, but I wanted to get along with them, started feeding them along with the carnivore woodpeckers, dry cat food and meat scraps cut up and no bones to drop on a roof. That went on awhile, watched one eat a piece of apple one day, interesting birds. But then a sick one showed up on my front porch at the water dish I set out, and I found 2 dead in the gutter a half block down, laid there for 2 or more weeks weeks, ick. We have a problem with West Nile, they had already done their sampling, confirmed its presence in the area, so wouldn't come pick them up. I thought they were a health hazard and if it had been in front of my house, would have disposed of them. So West Nile took its toll on them, now we have a fair amount of owls, that may help keep them away. Haven't been bothered by them for a couple years now, same with the larger brown woodpeckers, large flock of them. So nature has its ways, but you don't want West Nile in your area if you don't have it already. People in the two-state area have died from it (mosquitoes the carrier), usually elderly or with compromised immune systems.

I saw this tread and thought "Oh my God! My father has come back from the dead!" When we lived in St Louis, my parents lived in an old (c1914) three story house. My father had his "gun room" on the 3rd floor - reloaded all his own shells. He also had multiple bird feeders on our terrace and in our small, narrow backyard. Daddy took it VERY personally when a squirrel would get the food out of the bird feeders. He spent a fortune on "squirrel-proof" bird feeders; they were not. So he would stand at the window on the 3rd floor and use an air rifle (the kind children use to receive for Christmas) and shoot the squirrels at his bird feeders. My mother and I were horrified; I'm sure some of the neighbors were as well, but no one ever called the police. The squirrels always won. They just sent in reinforcements and my father could not be on guard 24/7. No, it was NOT dementia. It was just a man who was born in a small rural town in 1901 who was given his first rifle at age 6 and allowed to go out shooting with a buddy. Amazingly, no one was ever hurt. If they shot a song bird, his mother had plenty to say about it. To him, this was normal. You can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the boy.