Well I'm going to take all the leaves off in the morning and do as ya'll say. Wipe, spray, sand, and anything else I can think of to get these suckers under control. Please someone tell me that the bugs will not be this bad once we plant them outside. If you tell me they are going to be worse I may have to re-think having droves of brugs. I'd have to buy one of those power sprayers to spray everything. Oh geez, some of the situations I get myself into. Hot water from the sink sprayer will not HURT my babies? If you tell me it will not, I'm going to give them a good hot bath tomorrow too. (frowning) My poor little babies are going to look like plucked chickens when I get all the leafs off. (sticking out bottom lip) They were looking so nice with all their leaves before they started getting SICK. Thanks for the advise and comments everyone. At this point I up to trying ANYTHING! Happy Gardening, Marian Oh and Karma, isn't it kind of difficult to cross your toes? I think I forgot to tell you here awhile back how cute your little purple toes with all the toe rings on were.... (smile)

Mike, Thanks for the gentle words of reason. You're right of course: getting a new tree in spring when I can put it out is the reasonable thing to do. It's just that it's so much fun watching these trees bloom and produce fruit. I suppose once I bring them in for the winter I'll have a whole new set of concerns, and better to practice on two than four. It's just hard to be patient because winter lasts soooooo long. Steve, What great insight about lighting. I had already been to a hydroponics store near me to talk to them about indoor lighting and had been planning to have lights overhead and a reflective surface under the plants. But I hadn't considered that the more crowded the trees the less light that will get thru to be reflected upwards. And no one had mentioned that lighting from below will encourage lower growth. I never made the connection - even after starting seeds indoors and knowing I have to keep light close to the seedlings to avoid the tall spindly plants you get when they have to stretch for the light. Just never made that jump in thinking. So the voices of reason & experience prevail. I will be tapping my toes and counting the weeks, but I will wait till spring to add new trees. BTW my husband picked Clementine to be tree #4 so now he's pacing and waiting too ;-)

Kelsey, You're welcome. 1. I do think you figured out that the lack of hardening off was the main issue. The gray spotting on the leaves likely resulted from that. This sort of damage to a plant is known variously as physiological damage or environmental damage and usually results from an indoor-raised tomato plant being placed outdoors permanently into conditions it is not strong enough to handle. You don't see as many photos of it online for ID purposes because each and every case of environmental damage can look different. I'd suggest you just chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on. Do not criticize or shame yourself. There is no shame in being new at something and at having to learn a few lessons the hard way. We've all been there, done that, and we survived (even if our plants did not) and moved on. Some rainy day we should start a "true confessions" thread where everyone can admit their various "mistakes" and tell us how they've killed plants accidentally. I could fill pages all by myself. Part of becoming an experienced gardener involves (sadly) killing plants and it's all good because we learn from each experiences. I believe that Texas A&M's Tomato Problem Solver Webpages do feature a photo of physiological damage. I'll see if I can find it and link it below but it is only one example. If you had 100 people with tomato plants that suffered this type of damage, you could get 100 different photos and none of them might be exactly the same as the damage presents in many ways. Tan or gray bleached out spots, ranging from tiny to huge, are a common symptom though. 2. This is a misconception that Oklahoma has only one season---hot, hot, hot. Or, maybe two--Tornado Season and Hot, Hot, Hot. Ha! We have 4 seasons here just like everyone else, and sometimes (especially in early to mid-spring) we have all 4 seasons in one day. In my years here in OK (we've lived here since 1999) I have spent more time trying to protect plants than on any other single garden task. This year has been especially erratic and especially trying for gardeners trying to harden off plants. Even when plants are partially hardened off, if you have to move them back indoors because, let's say, late March brings you two late snowstorms, guess what? If the plants were back inside for even just 2-4 days, they can lose their hardened off status and you get to start all over again from Day 1. I've started over more times this spring than I can count. I keep waiting for that perfect Spring where I can harden off plants in 1 week without taking any steps backwards and it hasn't happened yet. It is just something we have to deal with. 3. Sandy Loam is great. I wish I had started out with sandy loam. So, at least you are starting out with soil that likely drains well. This is important. Poor drainage is hard on many kinds of plants, and tomatoes are very sensitive to it. So, Yay for you for having great soil! 4. In the future, you'll increase your odds of success if you use a breathable covering. I use floating row cover. I was a slow learner on this one. I first read about floating row cover in Dr. Sam Cotner's amazing book on growing vegetables in Texas, where I was born, grew up and lived until moving to OK. I read about it in, I am pretty sure, the 1980s. I laughed. I said I was never going to spend our money on some sort of flimsy, lightweight material to cover up plants. Plants don't need to be covered, I said. I. Will. Never. Do. This. I am totally ashamed that I was so stupid back then. Flash forward to the 1990s and I started to get a little smarter (finally) after finding the weather in OK was much more rapidly changing than the weather where I'd lived in Texas. I bought my first row cover. Now I have tons of it. Tons and tons. I have become the poster child for using floating row cover. I cover up plants to protect them from very cold temperatures and frost and freezing. I use lightweight row cover to protect plants at times from some types of insects. I use row cover and bird netting to protect plants from hailstorms. I love the stuff. It comes in different weights that offer different degrees of light transmission and freeze/frost protection. I love the stuff. But, back before I started using row covers, I used old bed sheets and, on colder nights, blankets (albeit, with some sort of structure to keep them from crushing the plants). With row cover or bedsheets, even though they are breathable, air can heat up beneath them so I always use supports (usually low tunnel hoops made of PVC or EMT) to hold the row covers above the plants. While you can let the lighter weights of row covers float directly on top of the plants, I prefer to have a lot of air space between the plants and the covers so I suspend them above the plants. In our wind, row covers that float can cause abrasions to the foliage by repeated wind movement. Oh, and row covers that are not well-anchored to the ground can float right out of your garden and into the neighbor's barbed wire fence where they then become the row cover equivalent of cole slaw (because they are shredded into pieces). Another lesson learned. Row covers are hard to use if your cats and dogs think they are pet hammocks. Guess how I learned this? A glass bowl even propped up, could have acted similarly to a magnifying glass in sunny weather, so you probably should remember that in the future and use something else. Maybe a cat hammock. (grin) 5. Gray spots that start at the end of leaves and spread sounds more like physiological or environmental damage than disease. Hope that gives you some reassurance that a soil-borne disease likely was not the culprit. So, now you've survived first grade in the Tomato Seedling School of Hard Knocks. I'm sorry it was such a disappointing experience for you and hope you can laugh it off and move on to bigger and better and more successful gardening ventures. I wish you lived here near me. I have a greenhouse full of tomato plants, ranging from huge to tiny (not my fault, I blame the tiny ones on a later start and horrible weather, and I am grinning as I type this statement) and I'd load you up with replacement plants....which all are going to Paula's house on Saturday for our annual Spring Fling. If you are coming, we'll send you home with more free plants than you have room to plant. (Lesson: always have backup plants in case disaster strikes.) I can plant earlier than most folks here since I'm also in zone 7B like you, but I raise plenty of back-up plants to use as replacements in case my early plants die. Then, when my plants don't die and I don't use the replacement plants, they all go to Paula's where I beg everyone to please take home my orphan tomato babies. I only have one "rule" for the Spring Fling, which is that I am not bringing back home any of the tomato plants I raised, and everyone there kindly indulges me by adopting the extra plants so I don't have to drag them back home to southern OK and throw them on the compost pile. I hate to waste plants, although a composted plant never is actually wasted as it will return to the soil as compost. I like Robert's suggestion that you could direct-sow seed now with cherry tomatoes and still get plenty of fruit. You'd be amazed at how quickly direct-sown seed, when sown after soil and air temperatures have warmed up, will germinate and grow. I wouldn't do it this late in the season with anything other than varieties that produce bite-sized tomatoes, though, as the plants that make larger fruit shut down in the heat, and the heat is coming soon. Maybe. It is a weird year. I think May might stay cool, mild and wet but even so, the heat that shuts down the fertilization and fruit set of tomatoes usually arrives in June. Or, if you are in a hurry to have ripe tomatoes yesterday (like me), and you're not coming to the Spring Fling, you can buy transplants at any nursery or big box store garden center. There's an amazing selection of plants in all sizes with fruit in all shapes, sizes and colors. I hope you'll keep us posted on your continuing adventure into growing tomatoes and other things. Gardening is addictive and it is a wonderful, joyful addiction. Have a wonderful day today and don't hesitate to come back here with questions, comments, etc. We might not be able to solve all your plant problems, but we'll try, and we'll do our best to make you laugh and smile while doing it. Finally, I just want to add that you never, ever have to raise a tomato plant from seed if you don't have time or don't want to. My dad grew up on a farm in the 1920s and certainly knew how to raise plants from seed, but he worked and had a houseful of kids and never, ever raised his own tomato plants from seed ever. He had a magnificent garden anyway. He usually bought his tomato plants at a little Greek grocery store run by a family that farmed on the banks of the Trinity River near Fort Worth. He grew great tomatoes. He gave away brown paper grocery bags full of them every Sunday after church. He did it all without ever raising a tomato plant from seed. So, if growing from seed fascinates you and you love it, then do it. It if doesn't fit into your schedule and lifestyle, skip it, and buy your tomato plants (or come to the Spring Fling every year and adopt the extra plants we all bring). I firmly believe that gardening should add more joy and fulfillment to our lives, although of course it does bring a share of stress and even causes distress at times. True confession time: when I worked full-time in a career I loved and had a small child, I didn't grow my own tomato plants. I didn't start growing tomato plants from seed until a few years after I gave up my career to become a full-time wife and mom, and apparently, also a full-time gardener. I really didn't start growing tons of tomato plants from seed until a couple of years before we moved here, but I really was raising them for my brother's garden (which he turned over to me for several years so I could do all the work) because my Fort Worth yard was too shady to grow more than a handful of veggies. As my garden here kept enlarging itself and getting bigger, I grew more and more from seed. Now, I find it hard to stop, which explains the huge number of tomato plants I have now---some of them in the ground growing and the rest of them in the greenhouse awaiting a permanent home. The world will not end if you decide not to raise your tomato plants from seed. Do what fits your life and makes sense for you in any given year, and no guilt or regrets are allowed! Dawn

Hi Nancy! Your set up is amazing! I dont quite have that much space, or I haven't made room for that yet. Haha. Also I don't yet have a strong track record of handling seedlings and cuttings of any plant... I got my plumerias at the end of July from Jungle Jacks! I purchased the one gal plants, I'm not sure how old they are though. I posted pictures somewhere on the forum the day after they arrived. The soil and pot is what they arrived in, I probably won't repot until next summer. The soil seems to be very porous and lightweight, it drains very fast. They arrived with a lot of leaves. I left them outside the first day I got them, first in a dappled shade area for a week or two and then the hottest and brightest spot I could find in the backyard. Even on those 90+ degree days, they seemed to be loving it. They actually got spider mites while they were still outside! At first I thought I could rinse them off with water, haha. Now that they're inside I'm still spraying them with Neem oil every week. I hope I can survive this winter! In general, I have an interest in trying to propagate warmer climate plants indoors (turmeric, avocado, pineapple..) just to see if I could do it. I think I was perusing gardenweb way too much in search of the perfect jasmine sambac and optimal care (the scent is so lovely), and stumbled on all these gorgeous photos of plumerias! I've seen giant plumeria trees in Thailand and Hawaii, but never thought that I'd be able to possibly grow them here! I did my research, and told myself I'd only get one so I won't be too disappointed if I kill it. As you already know, I ended up with two. It's so tempting, even though they likely won't bloom for a few years. I would love a greenhouse for the summer! Even the slightest gusts can knock mine down since the soil is so lightweight. I believe I read that Jungle Jacks keeps all their plumerias in a humid greenhouse in Southern California. If I can survive the winter, you'll probably see a post from me of a DIY greenhouse tent this summer! :D