Ah, Beeohio, that's sad. You can't have known what was going on in her life after the two of you went different ways.

My first 'official boyfriend' (Junior High) went on to become CEO of a major corporation; married a lovely woman; had three children. The family moved to our town, and his youngest son was in Little League with our DS. The man died, and family and friends established a sports scholarship in his name. There was annual fund-raising for the scholarship for years.

It was bizarre to continue to read only about what a swell guy he'd been, since I learned shortly after his death that he'd been an alcoholic for years and had committed suicide. The day he died he checked himself out of rehab, came home and shot himself in the head in the family den. His son came home from HS to discover the body.

Maybe today there would be no need for all that cover-up. There would be sympathy for the truth: He was depressed and sick, and he killed himself because he was *ill*.

So sad for your friend as well as her family & friends. :(

Suicide leaves so many unanswered questions and such a feeling of helplessness. :(

I understand suicide and what brings people to it but, I also believe that it is a very selfish act. The people left behind cannot help but feel guilty and feel like they should have known or should have been able to spot the signs. It also sometimes leaves a shadow of blame on the people closest. My young cousin's wife shot herself. She was in a state of postpartum depression and left behind a husband and a 3 month old baby. Of course he blamed himself for many years for not knowing that she was so close to the edge.

Clinical depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If someone commits suicide while depressed, they are not being selfish; they are ill. Please have more compassion for a condition that is difficult to diagnose and often misunderstood.

I don't think any of us understand suicide as well as we should even if we have experienced it first hand with a family member or friend. In today's world there are so many pressures, conditions or situations that years ago just were not there. Also with the media, face book, twitter etc people just push buttons and do not realize that whatever they put on the electronic gadget they have goes all over.
My prayers go out to you and your friend's family for their loss.
Marie

If someone commits suicide while depressed, they are not being selfish; they are ill.

Amen to that.

Sometimes they're so lost that suicide seems like the only path out of hell.

It's been my experience that (often, not always) it's the sensitive souls that take their own life.

Human life is hard. Sometimes the path gets so dark and lonely and hellish, you can't even remember what it's like to feel peace and comfort.

When I hear that someone has killed themselves, I say a little prayer for them and their family.

Rose

I don't know how old she was, but some suicides are planned for reasons other than mental problems. Maybe their quality of life is gone. Their future is a care home being reduced to wearying diapers and laying in your own waste. Have any of you thought of that? I have met several people who are planning suicide when the time comes. I know one couple who is planning it and their deaths will probably be labeled murder suicide. I asked one lady how she was going to do it, she said in the car with her favorite music CD playing. That sounds a lot more acceptable than bone cancer, dementia or a care home.

Truth be told, there but for the grace of God, go I. There is no black and white when it comes to such a desperate act, only shades of gray. My heart bleeds for the many people who have faced this, the loved ones and the families left behind to deal with it all. Until a person has been that alone, that filled with pain, sadness or desperation one cannot know what is going on in that individual's mind.

Beeohio, I am so sorry that your friend saw no other solution. I've lost 2 people to suicide, our Godchild and a friend who chose to end his cancer pain. No matter the reason their departure hurts.

Take it from one who deals with this problem first hand everyday. Suicide is without question, one of the most missunderstood elements of our society.

Ask anyone involved in suicide intervention and they will confirm that if an individual is telling you they are going to commit suicide, they don't really mean it. What they are actually saying is that they cannot stand the current circumstances of their life, and they are literally crying out for help.

If someone is intent upon committing suicide they will say nothing to anyone about it, quite the opposite, they will make every effort to portray themselves in a life as usual manner keeping all their problems bottled up until one day they quietly go off and commit the act, generally leaving a note of some sort, but it will nearly always come as a complete surprise to family & friends.

What is my authority on this subject you ask? I am one of the second group..... I am a diagnosed Bi-Polar "Manic/Depressant".

Allow me to explain what that means in laymans terms. Most people have a normal state of mind, and they are occassionally either elated or depressed, but for those of us who are Manic/Depressants, our minds do not work that way. We have no normal days. Fortunately for me, my mind is generally on the high end of the scale, and as a rule I am witty and what most ppl would refer to as the life of the party, BUT- That can all change in a heartbeat, and without even the slightest warning my mind can swing to the low end, full scale depression and borderline suicidal. Believe me, the mood can change within minutes and last for months if not treated. (As a matter of fact, I have attempted suicide twice in my life and statistically that is probably how my life will end.)

For the most part those who have my condition suffer in silence because that has been how our minds have worked throughout our entire life, so we see it as normal. In fact, it was not even recognized as an illness by the medical profession until well into the 1980's. Prior to that there was some research done by the military and they categorized it as "Combat Fatigue" and prescribed 7 days of bedrest as a treatment, although I can tell you, laying in bed for 7 days is absolutely the wrong thing to do if you want to pull out of a slump.

The medical profession has now determined that the problem results from a lack of Seratonin in the brain and they have developed a number of drugs that can alleviate the condition. I personally have been prescribed 5 different drugs. The first 4 caused some serious side effects that I could not deal with until they finally put me on Zoloft. I take one pill every morning and it has no more side effects than if I had swallowed an M&M, but it does stabilize my mood swings, however I have known others who had bad effects from Zoloft and they use one of the drugs that I had problems with. There simply is no one size fits all here.

I could go on for days describing some of the outward signs of clinical depression, but suffice it to say that it is nothing like what most ppl would think.

We are all aware of the ppl who are loners and reclusive, but did you know that being a social butterfly may also be an outward sign of depression? In many cases those ppl who are out shopping everyday and belong to all the fashionable civic or social clubs may be suffering from depression and simply cannot stand to be home alone. You never know. One thing we can be sure of. Over 35% of our general population suffers from one sort of clinical depression or another, thats right ladies & gentlemen, that is one out of every three ppl reading this board,and the sad part is, you are not aware that you have the symptoms, because you are living the same way you have all of your life, and its just normal for you.

Beeohio, I am sorry about your friend and the shock to you when you learned the truth about her death.

Lazypup, thanks for your enlightening description of what a Manic/Depresant has to endure. I was particularly intrigued by your last paragraph when you wrote about a "social butterfly". Someone very close to me fits that category to a "T".

Lazypup,
With all due respect, I beg to differ that a person that is going to commit suicide will not really do it if they are talking about it. That may be true some of the time, but not always. I have had a lot of suicide training and we are not taught that at all. It is stressed over and over to take the person seriously. I have had to deal with many people over the years that have called the police to talk about it and then immediatly complete the act. (work in law enforcement)

I agree Summershine, we just had a respiratory therapist kill herself after telling other people she was going to blow her brains out. That's exactly what she did.

An uncle of mine committed suicide some years back.
He was the one you would least expect to do that, he
was always the happy go lucky one.

My friend was 67, had lots of friends, was fun to be around, & I loved her sense of humor. She had lost her husband about 2 1/2 yrs before, after a terrible battle with cancer. They had such a strong & loving marriage & I suspect that loss was so hard for her & ultimately led her to suicide. It's just soooo very hard to understand & accept. It *seemed* that she had a lot to live for... lovely children, grandchildren, no financial worries.... but I know, I know... it doesn't always "feel" that way on the inside for a person who is suffering from depression. My thoughts have been all over the place thinking of her.

She was Catholic & as far as I know was still faithful in her Church attendance. I do know that long ago Catholics believed that you couldn't go to heaven if you committed suicide. Does anyone know if that is still their teachings?

Lazypup, I am glad you are so knowledgeable about your condition. It sounds as if you have a good handle on how to take care of yourself.

Lazypup--Thank you for sharing and we will keep you in our prayers that you find the best medicine that is avaiable so you will be around for a very long time to share your special talents you have. The picture posted showing you peeking at us with your pointed hat is priceless and you are always welcome to share your feelings.
Marie

According to the Catholic doctrines, it is a mortal sin. But the Church is becoming more understanding and is nearly into the 20th century.....shortly they will hit the 21st.

�"We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives."
"As Catholics we recognize that mental illness is something that needs to be taken into consideration in pastoral practice," Fragomeni said. "We still acknowledge that killing is against God�s command. In this kind of case, the catechism says there are conditions we just don�t condemn people to hell or refuse them God�s mercy anymore."

They are now permitted to be buried with a Catholic funeral.

Lazypup, thank you for sharing your very personal insights, you are quite a human being. But I too disagree with your statement about those intending suicide not talking about it. I think the opposite is true. In most cases with which I am familiar the person had told others of their intent, but no one thought they were serious, sadly they were and were probably looking for help.

Beleive me............ you never know someone even when you aer married to them. I have found out many things after my DH died that I never knew. People always have things they don't talk about or tell other people.

My cousin Jimmy once said "Anybody who commits suicide is not thinking clearly" There is always hope. Jimmy died of cancer in 1988, just a few days before my first child was born.

One mst be hurting hugely to decide that whatever may lie ahead is better than the pain of continuing here ... and at such a time, what effect their self-inflicted death may cause in the lives of others is so far on the perimeter of their mind as to be almost non-existent.

While I have not had close association with suicide, I have heard that, while some don't refer to such a possibility, and may even appear more light-hearted just before they do it (as they have put a number of things in their life in order, given things away to friends, etc.), that such appearances are deceptive.

And while many who refer to the possibility/threaten it, and some make a half-hearted attempt, even multiple times, it is not always true that those who talk of it seldom if ever do it.

ole joyful

Thanks Lazypup, my sister was diagnosed Bi-Polar, Manic Depressant also. She did end her own life. I never once thought of her as being selfish for that nor did I feel guilty. Her life was a constant struggle that she didn't want to deal with anymore. She did take medication, but like most, when the medication was working and making things easier for her that's when she thought that she could live a normal life without it, and that wasn't the case. When she was first diagnosed, I thought what a cop out, just fancy words for someone who didn't want to deal with the every day drama of life that we all have to cope with. Years before she died and after educating myself on the subject, i realized how terrible this condition can be.
I'm sorry for your personal struggles Lazypup, thanks for sharing with us.

Young people committing suicide is a terrible tragedy. My Sis's step son killed himself in his mother's home with a shotgun and his Mom found him. That was very selfish unless he was so deranged he had no common sense at the time. You have no idea what a mess it was upstairs and down. You know his Mom probably saw that in her mind everyday of her life. The whole family needed counseling because of the guilt they felt.

I think mental illness is the worse diagnosis I could get. I could not go through what my niece goes through every day of her life. My life would be unbearable and I would end it, but in a non violent way.

The older I get, the more I realize, you have no idea how much emotional pain some people are in.

Rosemary I have seen enough of it in my family to know how bad it is. My sister is schizophrenic, my niece is Bi-Polar, Manic Depressant. There are a couple more that are undiagnosed or just border line. It is hereditary. My sister is lucky with hers, because she lives a fairly normal life if the stress is low. She doesn't take meds, but her husband and sons watch over her and takes good care of her. She is very lucky to have the family she has.

With adults, I feel sad for the families left behind, and sad that the person felt they had no other choices left. I am also glad that they finally found the peace they so desperately sought.

The ones that get me are the young ones - the middle school or high school kids who kill themselves because they are bullied, or because they are gay, or any other reason that we hear about way too often. I was teased a lot in school and it was a horrible experience for me and I remember being so desperate for it to end. I wish these kids could understand how it DOES get better, but I remember being that age and how all-encompassing it seems. While I agree that mental illness plays a big role, limited perspectives from being young also seems to be a part of it. Adults generally can understand life and their role in it but adolescents have such a skewed perception of the world that it's especially heartbreaking when they are pushed to that end before they have a chance to really live life and see how much better it can be. My life significantly improved after high school.

For obvious reasons this is a topic that is very dear to my heart, and one which I feel requires much more dialogue.

Previously I made a statement which many feel is incorrect but allow me to expound on that statement a bit,,,

" if an individual is telling you they are going to commit suicide, they don't really mean it. What they are actually saying is that they cannot stand the current circumstances of their life, and they are literally crying out for help"

Whether you want to believe it or not, that statement is entirely true, however it is perhaps a bit incomplete....

The opertive phrase there is that when the individual is threatenting suicide they are in fact crying out for help.

You must understand that at that moment in time, the one threatening suicide is still weighing their options and even though they are seeing those options through dark glasses they still have not entered into the full committed stage of suicide. At this point, if they are fortunate enough to have someone get them into a full medically supervised intervention program the prognosis of recovery is very high, but, and this is the serious but in the matter. More often than not, those around them do not take their threats seriously, often dismissing them as a copout for failing to take responsibility or labelling them as a drama queen, and ignoring the threats.

The individuals who suffer this illness may go through the threatening stage for weeks, months or even years but I can assure you, that if it is left untreated, they will eventually progress to the dedicated stage of suicide, and once they have made the dedicated decision to end their life, they will no longer talk about it. In fact, they will become very secretive about it, but you can be sure that they are at this point no longer weighing the choice, but rather they are mentally selecting the method and their biggest fear is not dying, but rather at this point they fear they may attempt a method that won't work. (I know because I personally have been there and done that).

One thing that is certain is that once they enter the dedictated stage, they will not openly discuss or threaten suicide because they don't want to risk anyone intervening in their plan.

If I can impart no other information on this topic, I want to emphasize this one point, If you hear anyone threaten suicide, DO NOT DISMISS IT LIGHTLY. If they are a close friend or family member you might civilly discuss the idea of them seeing a medical professional, but in most cases that will fall on deaf ears, however, if they refuse to hear your advice, take it upon yourself to notify the local police or your county mental health authorities. If you honestly care for that person, do whatever you can to insure they get professional help.

Beleive me, this is serious business. Suicide is the leading cause of death for young people under the age of 25, and statistically the highest incidence of suicide occurs during the holiday period from Chrismass until New Years.

It is always a shock when we hear of someone we know taking this path.

Back in '92 after I moved out of Miami I heard of a wonderful guy taking this route.
In fact his wife was the agent who sold my house for me.
I heard of it in a round about way.
I immediately called her to express my concern and sorrow.
She said he had been worried about his job. I think he had just turned 50 and they were expecting their first child.
She found him and said He had a family member who also took that way out. You alwasys ask yourself if there was anything you could have done to prevent this.