Oh, Oh, We're being forced.....!!

13 years ago

It looks like our Forums are going the way of Social media.
This was posted at the Kitchen Forum and I don't like it one bit.

If Tamara cared about us, why not do an internal poll to find out how we, the members feel about any changes, instead of just arbitrarily doing it?

Here is a link that might be useful: GardenWeb and Social Media

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Comments (45)

Chi
13 years ago
Ugh. This forum has been relatively troll-free compared to most but that will change. The whole forum will change but hey ivilliage will make a ton more money from ad revenue if a bunch of people click links on Facebook to get here.

Can you imaging if someone posts something and suddenly 300 brand new people sweep in to give their opinions?
katlan
13 years ago
To: The Powers That Be

Please, please, don't do this.
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I'm just going to talk about a coupla things. This is just talk about issues and trade-offs, not criticism. So this is about a half-thought out plan that I made up just so it wasn't critiquing an existing one. I'm drew in detail both cleanup and baking prep. I am showing two blue lines that illustrate routes used with or without a prep sink. The rest of this is long and highly opinionated. Ok. So, let's start with cleanup. We've mostly all said that a 4 foot deep cleanup area is a bit much for "cleaning the clean up area" so this steps it back into the window a foot - yielding a three foot deep space which might be reachable (depending on god, the universe, your height, sink gismos and everything). The other thing it does is create a nice wide aisle around the open dishwasher - when duffers pass through on their way to Doritos or a beer or whatever, the human dishwasher can ignore them. A pass through area with double sided upper cabinets is entirely possible, but you need to put a ledge or a ledge plus a shallow base cabinet in the dining room side for "sit down" space for people getting dishes from the cabinets. I'm having some trouble understanding your friend's criticism about stuff being on the wrong side. With double sided glass fronted wall cabinets, you need to remember that the entire contents will be plainly visible. I find that leads to very few junky places and more order for me. The cabinets are only about 12-13" deep, so its is difficult to think of what would be piled up in front of your plates or soup bowls. Perhaps they were thinking of base cabinets? Food prep (of any sort) has a flow to it. Stuff from the ref usually goes to the sink, unless its a snack - in which case it either moves towards the dishes or the microwave or both! From the sink, or directly from the ref if you belong to my tribe, it travels to the prep counter area to be joined with water, prep tools, pantry stuff and pots or baking pans which are then put on the range or in the oven or the micro. The process may later need to drain something or slide stuff out to cool or be stired frequently. The messy leftovers go to a disposal or trash or compost. The packaging goes to the trash or recycling. The dirty pots and prep tools go to cleanup. So the arrangement of the appliances is important, and the positioning of water is vitally important. So, the cleanup seems good because you don't need to walk much at all - just for putting pots or prep stuff back. Trash isn't going to be optimally positioned (unless you're a garbage disposal person) caused it would need to be under the sink, probably forcing you to keep the under sink door open. Cooking is a little bit freaky. This is mostly because of the relative locations of the ref and the pantry and the prep area. You have one of those places where some of the spacial relations are difficult. Since all of the dry storage is across the hall, it's nice if the ref is closer to it BUT the ref can't be placed directly on the hall wall. It probably won't be able to open completely, leaving you to wrestle with it when you want to clean it. It's also not perhaps the best idea to bury your only ref inside the prep zone as it is the most frequently accessed appliance - particularly by those other folks who live in your house. Adding cabinets between the wall and the ref push the pass through up towards the sink. In every iteration of a corner plan with the sink in the bay - the sink or the dishwasher have an issue. Either the sink is too close to the corner and can only be used from one direction AND/OR the dishwasher is on the wrong side. If we reversed the sink and dw in the sample plan, the sink is better positioned, but the dw is not as it opens in front of the cabinets you like to use for dishes. Unloading becomes a two-step, first to the counter and then the cabinets after you close the door or drawer. In the ones with a corner and the range where the ref are traded, the dishwasher opens between the range and sink potentially causing serious accidents as its possible to turn from the range and trip over the dishwasher. The ref is shown near the sink. You can reach the peninsula counter to sit things down, which mitigates the distance somewhat, but it still might be crazy-making... Is it more crazy making than having people constantly walking behind you? Since the pass-thru moved up closer to the sink, I could put the range where shown. Its got counter on both sides. It won't prevent others from using the sink, altho others can prevent you from sliding over to dump a colander. Adding a prep sink kills the dark blue triangle that goes into the cleanup zone - always a good thing but really good in this example because that pot full of water and pasta can now pretty much always be drained without getting someone to move first. Other crazy stuff: ---- A person needs at least two feet of counter edge. If they are adults, it might feel slightly squished in. ---- The overhang for counter height seating should be at least 15". This isn't for the depth of the stools - its for knees. ---- The peninsula is tempting to hang a wall cabinet, but if you do, the second stool will be kinda difficult to use because the wall cabinet will be in the seated person's face and the last door is guaranteed to hit them in the head! ---- The ref location is hard to plan. There are two kinds of people in this world. The ones who get everything they are going to use out of the ref at once; and then there's my tribe. My tribe kinda fetches this, that and the other thing outta the ref all during the prep and cooking process. People say they can learn to be the other type, but I don't know. ---- Same thing with the views and prep-or-cooking-or cleanup. To me, windows are the most wasted in front of a cleanup area. Not the light wasted, but the views! When I'm doing cleanup, I'm looking at the dishes, not the view. And with dishwashers, I'm not in front of that window for very long. I think windows are more useful at prep or cooking (both!). ---- Also consider the social aspects of any plan. In this plan, you are oriented to the family room, and primarily the family room windows. You'd have a side view of the bay window - a front view would happen while rinsing veg - maybe. When you're cooking or doing cleanup, you'd be turned away from others. In all of the "real" designs, other things happen in your interactions with people and the views. Be sure you end up with the ones you'd like.
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phyllis__mn
13 years ago
Well, there goes our home away from home, if this goes through.
Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
13 years ago
I don't understand it all. I guess that is because I don't do any of the things the icons stand for.

Would one have to be a GW member and be logged into GW in order to use any of those social media buttons?

Sue...socially challenged on the net
lisa_fla
13 years ago
Maybe we should get together a plan B to meet somewhere else
Jasdip
Original Author
13 years ago
I don't want to lose the friendships that we have here.

If anyone can come to the GW by "liking" us on FB, twitter etc, it's going to be over-run with trolls etc.

Not to mention, our pics and comments will be hacked. Yes I know, anyone can take them now, but it will be easier IMO if we are linked to the other social sites.

I don't like this one bit.
Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
13 years ago
Can you imaging if someone posts something and suddenly 300 brand new people sweep in to give their opinions?
hmmm...I'm just thinking about all the really really slow forums here where questions don't get any answers.

Wouldn't this possibly be a way for GW to become livelier? The more the merrier? Maybe I'm missing something here, since I don't FB or tweet, etc, but I do browse Pinterest which is cool.

Anything on GW is on 'the net'. It's not like GW is some little private place there only members can 'read'. Why the concern?
alisande
13 years ago
I'm a big fan of Facebook, but please don't stir the two together. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.
golfergrrl
13 years ago
I don't like the idea.
Pretty soon we'll see
"sign in to Facebook to comment".
One more site shoving this stuff down
my throat.
User
13 years ago
I don't like the idea at all.

I don't have a facebook account and don't want one because of the lack of privacy.
Chi
13 years ago
Chemocurl - in my opinion it's much more invasive to be featured on social media. Yes you can find posts online but you generally have to be searching for something specific. So most people who find their way here either are referred or are trying to find the answer to something.

If this forum becomes more mainstream, it will get overrun by people and trolls who have nothing better to so than to try to stir up controversy and drama. I see it all the time on other forums. The more specialized ones may benefit but the "social" ones like the KT may be compromised.

I imagine people will stop posting pictures of grandbabies and such knowing that anyone could hit a button and share it with everyone on their Facebook which then can be shared by any of those people and so on.
mamatoad
13 years ago
I was hoping we could avoid this! I am definitely not in favor of it!!!
kacram
13 years ago
And I don't want someone to share a post that I have made a comment on, I disclose some things here that I don't want the whole world to see. I use facebook, but that doesn't mean I want everything on here, published there.

this forum will NOT have the safe feeling.. I think that ivillage doesn't realize how long we have been coming here and why ....
YogaLady1948
13 years ago
HMM now we all have to watch what we say~~how can we come here and vent about friend/family matters~~maybe if I started a post and put it on FB maybe that could be ok. But if I post on someones elses post, I would not want it on FB~~~but then you all would not want to be on my FB.

I have a FB account and use it daily~~~I have enough people I talk to or talk to me on there. I do not need KT posting on there also~~makes it all too crowded.

That would be mixing my two groups together and I do not like it! Thats like my bowling league hanging out with my knitting group BLAH!
Sue_va
13 years ago
Am I missing something?

social media share bar that will allow you to share posts to your favorite social media sites as well as sharing it via email

Doesn't that mean you have a choice?

Sue
ravencajun Zone 8b TX
13 years ago
NO it means anyone can hit that bar and share anything, you don't have a choice in that situation.

I know things here are open to the world but I personally don't want my contributions put on Facebook, if I did I would have a facebook account myself and I DO NOT!

I am adamantly against any connection with facebook and social media sites. I do not have any and NEVER will.
I do a lot of helping at computer help and if this comes to be then I will not be participating and I know a lot of others feel the same way. That would be very unfortunate. None of the other help forums I participate in has any connection to social media as it should be!

So many here have been dedicated LOYAL friends to GW for years now we will see how LOYAL they are to US. I fear I already know the answer.
Chi
13 years ago
Yes, you can choose what you share but you can't control what other people share. Anyone would be able to click an icon and share your post on their Facebook where all of their friends can see and click and come back to your user name, and then be able to search for any pictures or personal information you post. That's a little dramatic but it's totally feasible. It's the same information that anyone can get if they try hard enough since these are public forums, but adding social media links makes it much, much easier to exploit.
LuAnn_in_PA
13 years ago
:::shrug:::

Their website, their rules!

I will not link my Facebook to any message board, this one included. I'd rather leave... and that would be okay.
amyfiddler
13 years ago
How does one go about disconnecting from this site? Ive been hete 10 years, I think its time to go. ?
Chi
13 years ago
Yeah even if you stop posting there are still years and years of old postings archived. :(
maybee_gw
13 years ago
There's a KT group on Facebook now
ravencajun Zone 8b TX
13 years ago
That's totally different that was set up by an individual. It is not a part of GW. If you choose to join it and participate that is a personal choice. Not forced.
justlinda
13 years ago
Not that it's worth a hill of beans, but what about having a 1-week strike here, where nobody posts anything? Or what if the majority of us became readers only - don't quit the site, just stop posting? Of course, silly me, what would we read if there were no posts...lol!

But, I guess it's all about the money, eh, and if they can garner income from people clicking on adverts then I'm sure it will go forward.

Too bad for me. I don't belong to FB (mho is that they're no better than big brother watchdogs) so why would I want to stay?
Chi
13 years ago
I want to show a couple of scenarios that could very well happen if this forum links into various social media outlets. Granted, these scenarios are a little dramatic and it probably wouldn't happen to this extent, but I think some people don't fully understand what could happen and what it means for your privacy.

Example 1: Say someone has posted here for 10+ years, enjoys her circle of friends and loves to share about her life and family as she has been for years. A grandchild has a first birthday and she posts a picture of him with cake all over his face. 50 people, either contributors or lurkers, decide the picture is just so adorable and they want to share it with their friends so they all hit the Facebook link. If each of those people has 200 friends, and if 5 friends each of the original 50 all share it with their 200 friends, this woman's grandchild has just been shared with 60,000 total strangers within a couple of clicks and it just grows exponentially from there. Not only is the picture shown, but any of these 60,000 people can click on the link, come to the thread, see the poster and search for anything that poster has written about in the 10+ years they have been here thinking it's a fairly tight-knit community. This is what social media exposure can do.

Example 2: Currently, most people come to these sites by either referral or by Googling a topic. The draw of these sites is all of the knowledgeable people as well as the limited drama compared to other forums. However, when you introduce social media, that can change completely. Say someone's child is really into Justin Bieber and the mom just doesn't understand it so she writes a post complaining about the music. Somehow a 12 year old sees that and posts it to all 1,200 of her friends who then share with all their friends who then need to follow the link and defend their idol. All of a sudden this forum gets flooded with pre-teens who are angry at the Bieber-bashing and we all have to deal with the resulting drama. Extreme, maybe, but I've seen similar things happen.

Hopefully that helps illustrate some of the things that *could* happen. Again, probably not to the extent that I've illustrated but I think it's important people fully realize the consequences before they share as openly as they have been.
Chi
13 years ago
Also, it doesn't matter if you have Facebook yourself or not. If you participate in the forums, you can still be shared with tons of people via their Facebooks. All of those friends can come to the forums and see what you post regardless of how much you avoid social media yourself.
maybee_gw
13 years ago
Yes, Raven, I know that group was formed by an individual...just thought I'd toss that in the discussion. I have a Facebook account and love it, but I won't be posting here if what we post goes to Facebook.
justlinda
13 years ago
Also...think potential employers!!
juellie1962
13 years ago
Has anyone ever thought about moving over to delphi forums? I don't have a ton of experience there, but it seems they are "safe". (for now)
workoutlady
13 years ago
I'm not interested in linking this to facebook and I do have a facebook account.

I for one would be interested in moving to another forum if someone can tell me where to go.
justlinda
13 years ago
scissors better watch how you word that....I'm sure there's people out there who will 'tell you where to go' lol
ont_gal
13 years ago
typical of Ivillage-nothing but trouble-nothing new
ravencajun Zone 8b TX
13 years ago
One thing many don't know about some pictures, if taken with a cellphone, or other device that does geo location any picture taken with it will have the location of where it was taken in the properties and can be easily detected. If you take pictures with those devices you can go into the camera settings and turn off that feature.

So in the above mentioned birthday picture of the child that was spread all over, if taken with a cellphone with this feature on, now all those people can also have the location where it was taken, and just imagine it was taken at home how many now also know where to find that precious child.

If you wonder what it would take to hack a facebook account, just go to google and enter hack facebook, there are even videos with explicit directions or you can easily find a "tool" to do it.

Nothing is safe once on the internet, but why make things even less safe.

If you want to check pictures on your phone (android) go to gallery select a picture click menu click details you will see the exact latitude and longitude the picture was taken. Now if you use the app quickpic, which I use, it actually gives you the street name and number,city and state.

To turn off open camera app , menu, uncheck geo tag photos.
OklaMoni
13 years ago
I am with scissors. Maybe it is time to leave... and we should explore places to go.

Moni
Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
13 years ago
This was posted over on the thread at Kitchens that was included in the OP here.

Posted by gwTamara 6 (My Page) on
Fri, Dec 7, 12 at 20:23

Hi folks,

As I said in my original post, we wanted to TEST this functionality. We do appreciate your thoughts and input and we always take them into consideration when making decisions that affect our site. As some of you have noticed, we have removed the sharebar from the site and won't be launching it at this time.

I think that what has been most interesting about this discussion is the wide range of perception about the Internet in general. While this forum may feel like your own bubble, it is, in fact, a very open, public place. What you post here is viewed by far more people than anything that might be shared to a Facebook page. It never hurts to be reminded that everyone should post with care and caution and that once you post, your words and pictures may be forever recorded. I also think that there are a lot of misconceptions about how social media works and exactly what it means to 'share' posts. I hope that this discussion will also lead to further clarifications and a better understanding.

We are continuing to work on new enhancements and improvements to the site. As you know, we recently launched the ability to edit your posts and we are continuing to work on things like an improved search engine and mobile applications. Please continue to offer your suggestions!

Best,

Tamara
patti43
13 years ago
I went to the Kitchens forum Jasdip posted and down toward the bottom, Tamara posted that the sharebar has been taken off for now and it was only a TEST. So we're safe for now, but who knows how long?

Thank you, Tamara.
Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
13 years ago
Yes patti43...I posted Tamara's reply just above your post.
iowagirl2006
13 years ago
I hope everyone read Tamara's remarks.

I don't think anyone has any idea of how many people read here, but do not post.

If there was a "lurker" counter somewhere - I can only imagine how shocked people would be.

This is a VERY open and accessible forum that has been around practically forever, in internet history.

Although it may seem like a tight and close knit group here - it is completely open and searchable. Any info, pictures, etc. is out there for ANYONE.

It is super easy to see where people are from. You can go to "view source" and see who your internet provider is and often approximate your location.
patti43
13 years ago
I saw that you had posted it, Chemcurl--very strange, since it wasn't there when I posted mine. I scrolled up to make sure someone else hadn't done it. Weird, since you posted 23 minutes before I did.
patti43
13 years ago
Iowagirl is so right. A few years ago my nephew was married and his little 2-year old niece was flower girl. I posted the link to the photographer and he told my nephew he got over 2000 hits, mainly from this site. I've wondered about that since--is it possible he could know where the hits came from? If so, that's a whole lot of lurkers. But the photographer was thrilled!
iowagirl2006
13 years ago
I have a couple pictures I posted on Gardenweb that constantly get views. One here at the KT was posted in 2008. It still gets several hits a week... This past week it had 15 views. The original thread was dated May 14, 2008.

At the time it had 16 replies - but still FOUR YEARS LATER it is still getting views. It is probably off of Google searches that lead to it, but that gives you an idea of how many people are looking at things here - not just the "KT Family" that you may think of.

The 2,000 hits the photographer got is a good indication of how many people are lurking...

I know that my pictures are getting those views by going to Photobucket and looking at my stats.
justlinda
13 years ago
Here's one of thousands of sites that provide an I.P. tracking program. You'll never know that you've been tracked. Mind you, the person doing the tracking will not know your exact home address, but they can pinpoint the approximate location (city, state/province). Not hard for those who want to "stalk".

Here is a link that might be useful: Visitor/traffic counter stats
ravencajun Zone 8b TX
13 years ago
Yes pretty much any one with a website will have stat counters, I have them on all of mine and yes it tells exactly where you came from and where you went when you left plus provides your Ip address Along with various other information.
I am always Surprised to see so many hits from foreign countries.

http://statcounter.com
Is one that I have used.
ravencajun Zone 8b TX
13 years ago
To remove geo tags from pictures.

Wanted to add an app you can use also
http://pixelgarde.com/

Here is a link that might be useful: Remove geotags

This post was edited by ravencajun on Mon, Dec 10, 12 at 14:48
joyfulguy
13 years ago
I've been fairly open on here.

Looks as though I'd better hold my cards closer to my chest.

But that's for the future - the past can't be erased (remember lazypup's[?] story of the frog explaining to nephew about the pencil - that the thing on the top end was to be labelled "Erase")?.

Or, as some have sugested, leave.

Which would make me rather sad, as I've appreciated my relationships with many of you, over the years.

Maybe we'd better find another forum, or make our own, as backup ... just in case.

Looks like I'd better make a list of the folks who've offered email addresses.

ole joyful
petaloid
13 years ago
Ole joyful, please look back at chemocurl's post with the information that it was a test and the sharebar has now been removed.

I don't know if that's putting others' minds at ease, but I feel better.

Oh, Oh, We're being forced.....!!

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