SO does this mean I should refinance my already low interest-rate mortgate and ranch loans?

I have lived through several depressions and to be honest, I haven't noticed much hardship. Sometimes the money doesn't go very far and we've had to cut back but nothing major.
Doesn't a recession mean interest rates will skyrocket?
Our loans have locked in rates.
Will this hold if there is a recession?

Call me innocent but explain a recession to me, please?
My Dad claimed a recession was the best thing to happen to a cattle rancher. But I don't know why?

Lori

You know, there are always economic opportunities for the wise, no matter what the 'official' name of the economy is.

Personally, I've found recession is generally good for us--but we don't have any debt. Prices are better, you can rearrange your investments so that when the economy picks up again--as it always does--you can take better advantage of the upswing. For us--planning to move in the next year or so, it will be great to be able to buy our retirement home at a lower price. And since we can afford to hang onto this house until the market is up again, we just may be able to have the best of both worlds--buy low, sell high.

I'd advise everyone to take a deep breath, sit back, start thinking out of the box, and look at the OPPORTUNITIES a recession offers. And remember, like the weather, the eonomy cannot go too long in one direction without some correction or we'd really be in deep trouble. It's a balancing act. There will always be ups and downs, and if you accept that, and arrange your finances with that in mind, you won't be hurt by the occasional up or downswing.

I don't need the President to tell me that things are in a bad way, economically speaking. All my bills have risen dramatically, including groceries and my employer is not only not giving raises but we basically got a pay cut with higher insurance premiums, co-pays and deductibles this year.

I'm still grateful that we have a very reasonable mortgage compared to most, no cc debt and one reasonable car payment (after driving my last car over 10 years and 177K miles and I would have kept going with that car if I wasn't on the road so often with my young son and now a baby on the way).

I just wish I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. The decisions being made only seem to be benefitting those who can fund political campaigns.

Where have those people been ?...the fact is, many sectors are already in a recession, and others are following because the President has insisted that the economy is booming.

I guess someone got his head pulled out of his you-know-where.

But, makes no difference what he says....look at the facts, and you can see what he has been denying.

Azzalae,

That is fine for you since you're in a good position but much of the younger generation isn't. I'm not saying that some or much of it is not their fault but those of us who reached adulthood in the past twenty years or so had less help paying for college (more loans, fewer grants), we've been paying for our benefits almost from day one when previously employees typically paid nothing for themselves or their families. The retirement plans, if you're lucky to have one, are not as generous. They are fewer opportunities to support a family with blue collar work. The economy has shifted to almost necessitate a two-income family unless you're lucky enough to have one spouse earning a very generous salary with good family benefits.

I know when I was starting out, I thought things would progress as they did for my parents - salary rising every year, not having to worry about health insurance and retirement as long as I had a good job, etc. I'm sure if we had known how things really were going to be we would have planned differently. DH and I are lucky now but we did lose ground making mistakes early on until we figured out the reality that we were facing.

I just seem to see fewer and fewer young people NOT making mistakes. I wish schools would spend more time teaching this sort of thing.

I find it hard to believe that the bank manager would know ahead of time what the President is going to do.....You can't compare life today with life years ago because it just isn't the same...and truthfully I think it depends on where you are living and the kind of job you have etc et cause where I live, the economy is good and jobs are not scarce and their are new opportunities and everywhere you look new building is going on , homes, offices, highways ....

I'm with Ruthie on whether or not this person knows ahead of time that such an announcement is forthcoming. Do tell, bulldinkie...what kind of connections does this person have?

In the last recession, I remember paying 15% mortgage interest because that was the going rate. On the flip side, many older people were delighted at the rates their CDs returned. Our current economic environment doesn't "feel" like a recession to me - at least not like the last one. I do think, however, that many people are struggling because they were lulled into a false sense of security (particularly with real estate values) and "bit off more than they could chew" or because they overextended on credit. I'm not saying they are bad people - Lord knows I've been through times when I thought I was doing everything right, yet I lived paycheck to paycheck and sometimes took a second or third job to make ends meet. Would I do it again? Yes. To me, it's part of the American dream - even in the tough times.

Remember, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger!

Do not misunderstand where I'm coming from. My husband and I are definitely not rich, we squeeze every penny until it screams. We have no expensive vices (don't drink, smoke, aren't into expensive electronics) and live very simply. He's a blue collar worker, I've been a SAHM for the past 26+ year (Except for occasional, parttime teaching assignments)--so we're by no means swimming in money.

My point is that even someone LIKE US--who has limited resources, who ISN'T rich, CAN FIND WAYS TO MAKE MONEY when the economy is down. Just one person's view of the subject, but in truth, because we're pretty creative about it, I think we do BETTER in these times. I'm just making a suggestion here. And yes, I'm talking about exactly the person you describe--those with limited resources. It can be a very good time for us during a recession--if you're willing to just put a little thought and effort into rearranging your finances to make the money that's out there to be grabbed (even in 'bad' times)

Remember, too, often in so-called good times, the inflation rate is very, very high. A recession gives that a good chance to even out a little.

"Remember, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger!"

This has been what I've clung to this year ....... not one of our best .... here's hoping 2008 is better.

So, should I go ahead and buy the new car I want?
Leslie

Have you read the story of "Job" in the Bible....his situation seems all to familiar to ours for the past year or so...it's been 1-2-3 unexpected expenses (medical expenses, falls and subsequent surgery, car accident, loss of 2 jobs, etc) thankfuly, our home is paid for...but the day to day things just keep me bogged down and in the dumps! We are not extravagant by any means..in fact frugal would be a good description..no cc debt, but as I said the day to day (groceries, gas, heating oil, utility bills, car insurance, taxes, home insurance, etc) the list goes on and on .... what was it Erma Bombeck said, "When your in the pits...make cherry pie!"

I remember the country being in a recession when I graduated from HS. I can say that being young really hit hard. Young people do not have the disposible income as it is. I have told my DD that she needed to be prepared for a recession because it does hit at least once in every lifetime. With that being said, I think that when it hits and you are young and just starting out, it takes longer to get out of it. I do worry for my daughter's age group. She is in college and has loans that she will need to pay back someday. Hopefully, she'll be able to find a job that pays well enough to pay off the loans and still raise a family. I am thankful that she is quite smart about money and has not taken out much (yet) for loans. Hopefully, she'll be able to keep it up. As for the recession hitting me personally, I'm not really worried about myself because I have prepared for this as best as I can. On the other hand, I can see that the 30 year olds could be in for a rude shock. They probably do not remember a recession and I've seen this age group spending way too much and not saving, at least within my family. I guess once the dust settles, we'll see what state everyone is in. Hopefully, we'll all learn from it but unfortunately, we are destined to make the same mistakes over and over.

Well, I'm 45 and never noticed any recession having any impact on my life. I've worked most of my life and the only time I've been financially in trouble was when I didn't work and take care of myself, and that wasn't during any recession, it was my fault.

kath just pointed out the real issue....I will point out also that some of the 30 and 35 year olds and lots of people in general have no one to blame but themselves. My husband and I are doing really well...but guess what...we always and I mean always lived below our income and we saved money every month...we did without until we could afford it and if we couldn't we just didn't get it...when our friends were driving BMW's we drove a Bronco and then an Explorer...When his buddies were wearing $500 dollar jackets he bought his off the rack at Joseph's...We have never had the need to impress a single person or to have people look at us and say...wow they are doing good...
.....Life is what you make of it and if you are having a hard time living on your income, you need to make some changes...now I realize that there are exceptions to every rule and nothing is black and white...but truth is...I see it even in our own children...they want it now, whether they can afford it or not and they don't care if they have money in the bank or not...I have friends that I know their income is way less than ours is even retired and they have shoes to match every outfit and a purse to match every pair of shoes and that's just typical of their wardrobes....and yet they are the very ones that are beeching about not making enough money and the economy...It is what it is and Americans are the reason it is what it is and we need to take care of it at the personal level....People moan and groan and beech and moan and yet we live in the best, most prosperous country in the world....

Being a senior and struggling through many ups and downs here are some of MY thoughts.
Do the best you can. Get a program like Quicken and that will help you find out where the money goes. Work as a family and include the kids in on some of the financial dicussions. Buy quality not always quanity.
Don't deny yourself everything. Take at least one vacation every year and you can find many free places. At least DO IT>

Eat out, go out less, let your local polititions know your feelings--jobs being sent out of country, insurance cut backs, clothing, food and other items from foreign countries flooding this country. Encourage YOUR State to support local business and if you are unhappy, let the owners know and why. Be kind but information.
And finally to all the college kids and parents, let the school and alumni know you are NOT going to pay for books etc that the teacher wrote, used once or not Some teachers only teach one or two courses and get big bucks and may or may not even attend the sessions. They have well paying jobs in the ""outside""world. Find out where the tutions money goes. Ask for a general breakdown.
To all of us, review what we have and what we think we need and plan for the future and again let the elected officals know our feelings and be firm but polite.

I agree Ruthie. I've been living paycheck to paycheck because of stupid decisions I've made over the last few years. It's no one's fault but my own. I make good money and it shouldn't be this way. Been using credit cards as a crutch for too long, as have a lot of people I know. I finally got some "balls" and cut them all up last night.

I see my friends and worry about them. They don't think they can get out of debt, ever, and not live without credit cards. But they spend, spend, and spend. All the while they tell me how stupid it is.

I never thought this thread would end up like this....wow..
Theres always a few no matter what you say just turn and rip it to suit them.All I said was the manager said a recession is here.He has nbo ties,I guess well see if hes right next week.Yes Im sure everybody knows how the economy is.positive...geeze Ill rethink before I post again.Im fine not worried about a recession I was stating something I was told.good luck.....

In macroeconomics, a recession is a decline in any country's gross domestic product (GDP), or negative real economic growth, for two or more successive quarters of a year. Most wouldn't need a pronouncement from the President or a banker to see that some of the economic indicators are there - but to also see that some of the indicators can be juggled to put a spin on situations.

To my way of thinking, you can call it whatever you want and regardless some sector is always going to feel a pinch to a greater or lesser degree. We've always had boom and bust cycles, downturns and recoveries, parts of the country flourishing while others are in decline. (When water, or the lack of water, really becomes acute some of the boom in the more arid western parts of the country will experience a real "bust".) If you can sit tight and weather the current conditions you're okay. If the market tanks, it might be a good time to do some buy low investing with any discretionary monies - energy stocks, utility companies. Then again, it might be better to simply hold on to what you've already got and refrain from further investing. Depends on your risk tolerance, where you are in life, whether the thrust of your portfolio is for growth or for income generation.

Some of it is the time of year - no matter how profitable a year retailers might have had, they were hoping for a bigger profit margin. If people bought into the mass consumer hype and overspent for the holidays and now find themselves with nothing but the bills filling their mailbox, well, that's too bad for them and the choices they made. But out of our control is the daily fluctuation in the price of a gallon of gas, rise in food prices, home heating, property taxes, insurance, medical, etc. and yes, as mentioned above, the list does go on. Being conservative, wise shopping, etc. does not seem to keep pace and the middle classes and working poor are squeezed in every direction.

I'm counting my blessings - zero credit card debt, paid for house, conservative by nature and pretty immune to all the pressures to spend. I'm also counting on the fact that it seems unlikely a total economic and government collapse is going to occur.

I do *not* agree with Ruthie's comments.

I have noticed that retirees and people in the 60+ group - who had the foresight to buy real estate (be it a home or an investment) - are in dandy shape now. And they're in dandy shape principally because they've enjoyed a tidal wave of appreciating real estate and other investments. Plus many of these people had the benefit of "good old America" where you got a job and kept a job and had health insurance, life insurance, retirement benefits, etc. Back in the day, getting a job and keeping a job was the key to financial stability. Those days - for the most part - are OVER.

And yet it's the 60-somethings that like to boast of their wealth as proof that they're right and their ways are right and if only the whole world was more like them there'd be no recession - ever.

Today, the average 40-something will have EIGHT careers in his lifetime. That's not jobs, that's CAREERS.

If you're under 60 and you're not bringing in a handsome salary and/or don't have a big fat equity, it is TOUGH to make a go of it. I have a dear friend who is 50-something and has a modest income and her health insurance premiums alone are $500 a month and that doesn't count the expenses of Rx drugs that are not covered by insurance. Yet these are the very things retirees get FOR FREE (under Medicare's generous distribution of our money).

How are you supposed to "live below your means" when the utility expense, heating fuel, house payment, health insurance payment and other basic living expenses are 100% of your income?

I am so tired of people assuming that anyone who is in financial trouble is in trouble because they made one too many visits to starbucks or they consistently indulged themselves.

I'm really and truly glad that financial good fortune has smiled on so many people here but there are plenty of folks who did all the right things and have no assets to show for it. Life can take many twists and turns. Divorce, abandonment by a spouse, illness, problem children, legal woes, job loss, and business downturn are but a handful of the 12 billion problems that can appear out of nowhere and swamp the average american's assets - through NO FAULT of their own.

Rose

bulldinkie.....don't feel bad about your post! I think it was an interesting discussion with lots of different age groups and people from all walks of life participating... made ole' rusty here rethink her blessings! Thank you for the opportunity to revaluate past and future decisions....I think two dirty knees might have mentioned a good source of information..Job's plight!

Posted by bulldinkie: "All I said was the manager said a recession is here."

No, you said;

"Went to the bank, talked to a friend that is bank manager. He says The President is gonna announce we ARE in a recession next week."

People questioned how this low level employee in the world of finance and economics, is privy to the president's itinerary.

You also say;

"Geeze Ill rethink before I post again."

Thanks.

I'm with oldrusty in thinking these are good topics to bring up because regardless of where one might be in the discussion, we're all affected by the current economic climate simply because we're citizens of the world.

The only thing I'd like to see is two economists getting together and coming away with less than three different opinions. If the experts can't agree on anything, how is the common man supposed to dope it out? And being unable to come to a solid conclusion is what makes me personally a little cynical of recession, depression, stagflation terms being tossed around on TV and in the print media. Wherein does the truth lie?

There's no question that times are tough on an awful lot of people and it really doesn't matter where the fault might lie, be it personal irresponsibility or a situation beyond one's control. And there will always be those who have insulated themselves against downturns and, again, it doesn't matter if it was just "the times", wise planning, or luck. But there seems to be an undertone of disdain for the more fortunate.

For me, it was an accident of birth that I'm eleven days short of being a Baby Boomer and have to be content with being on the tail end of The Greatest Generation. It was no accident that I graduated from college and started my career with a company from which I retired at 55 with a pension and health benefits (although there are proportional monthly contributions, co-pays, etc.) I do see one career with one company going the way of the dinosaur, but does having a lifetime with a variety of careers necessarity mean someone can't save even a little for the future?

That being said, a forum by its very nature is a venue to discuss any and all points of view - and not only to merely agree with everything that's put forth.

AAAAAAMEN Ruthie!!

Go to any of the news reporting stations on TV and you will get a different take from every one of them and their so called experts on the pros and cons of an eminent recession!
Roses comment-"Yet these are the very things retirees get FOR FREE (under Medicare's generous distribution of our money)."
I'm not sure where you get the idea that we get these things for free just because we are retired and get Medicare! DH and I have been drawing SS since we were both 63. I am 66 he will be 70 in Feb. We just got a letter stating that we would be getting about a $25. increase in benefits starting this month.WooHoo! DH is retiring from a job after 11 years of employment. His retirement will be about $10,000. which he will not be able to get until march or April. He had insurance,medical and prescription with his job so he was told not to sign up for Medicare part B until he no longer had the company insurance so he did that last month.He just got a letter stating that the premium of $94.80 for the part B would be taken out of his SS every month beginning in Jan.So actually we didn't get a raise in SS income.I wouldn't say that Medicaid is free. We pay a deductible every year and medicare doesn't pay "everything"! We don't have the prescription part of Medicare and two of DH's prescriptions are almost $200. a month plus 2 more for him and 1 for me that we can get at Wal-Mart for $4. each. We are thankful that we have made some wise financial decisions and have paid for our home and 2 vehicles but utilities and everyday expenses will eat up the SS very quickly.DH may even have to find a part time job in the near future. So I wouldn't say anything is free for retirees.

AMEN, Ruthieg!!!

I'm with duluth...If the President announces anything about a recession, I'd like to see the numbers, since I don't think that the economy as a whole is going into recession, just the housing market. Although I think there will be erosion of the GDP in time as the effects of oil prices trickle down throughout the manufacturing industry...but that's in China now, right? Hmmm...and they own our debt...what a tangled web.

There would be no reason at all for him to announce any of this, unless it's an election ploy, but I'll keep further discussion of that to the Hot Topics forum. ;-)

I am sorry if my post reflected an undercurrent of disdain for the more fortunate. That was not my intention, at all. However, I do feel frustrated in knowing that the tens of thousands of dollars poured into the current social security system is NOT being set aside in a shoebox marked, "Rose Thornton" but is being doled out to today's seniors who are (on average) recouping a lifetime of payments into SS, in less than two years time.

By the time we late-bloomer, baby boomers shimmy up to the public trough of social security, it will either be bankrupt, or the retirement age will have been bumped up to 107. Once the baby boomers come of retirement age (which will be a huge demographic), there is no way this upside-down pyramid can be sustained and supported.

Our current social security system is a tax on the working class. I *do* resent that and feel it is not just or fair.

As to the medical portion, about 80% of medicare dollars are spent in the last 12 months of a senior citizen's life. Contrast that with the little girl (23-year-old Kaycee) who received my daughter's donor kidney in February 2007. This kid now owes almost $150,000 in medical expenses and must declare bankruptcy.

When it comes to senior citizens' health care, money is no object, but when it comes to 23-year-olds trying to stay alive, they are forced into bankruptcy. There must be a balance between these two extremes.

Rose

I think you misunderstand Social Security.
First, it is NOT a savings plan. It was designed that the current working force would suppliment the income for the previous working force. And, I'm sure you do understand that many of us pay income tax on our Social Security payments.
Medicare is NOT free, and it pays only for hospitalization....not Doctor's visits or many prescriptions. For this very limited insurance, seniors next year will pay premiums of over $100/month - mandatory insurance. taken out of SS check. Those who can, will pay an equal amount or more for "medicare supplimentary" insurance to reduce costs of doctor visits and prescriptions - with co-pays, of course.

Add the income tax and medicare payments...and that huge SS check you imagine just ain't that much. That's why you see all those wealthy SS recipients working as greeters in WalMart.

You quote 80% of medicare expenditure in a senior's last 12 months of life....That's closer to the norm at any age for those who die from cancer or any other terminal illness.

If you resent the amount of "your" money paying my SS...what do you think about all the school taxes that I continue to pay for schools that you and your children attend? I have never in my life used the public school system, but I don't complain about supplementing your use of them.

For the little we get from SS...we've paid out a bundle, and continue to pay.

So basically what you are saying Rose is that DH and I should somehow feel ashamed that we are getting benefits from the SS payments that he paid into for 50 years? I'm sorry,I don't! I know the SS system stinks and there may not be any left for you when you are ready to draw it but that isn't our fault or the fault of any of what you call"the more fortunate".My DH has worked and paid into SS so we would have a little,(and I mean "little" literally),to fall back on when we are old! It scares the heck out of me that OUR SS could dwindle to nothing before we die! Even though we are debt free,if we didn't have it we would be on the in serious trouble.We never had the good fortune to be able to set aside money for the future.We lived from pay check to paycheck,just as a lot of others have done and as I mentioned before made minimum wage until 11 years ago.We raised our kids and got by as best we could,and thank God we have that little bit of SS and Medicare benefits.I don't know the answers to the SS delema or to the health care problems of this country but I do know that sometime,somewhere everyone of us will suffer in some way because it is so screwed up.Maybe your generation can fix it! I sympathize with that young girl but you know what,there are a lot worse things than declaring Bankruptsy.

"If you resent the amount of "your" money paying my SS...what do you think about all the school taxes that I continue to pay for schools that you and your children attend? I have never in my life used the public school system, but I don't complain about supplementing your use of them."
This is one of my pet peeves.I pay property taxes for 2 school districts.One I don't mind because my DGD is in that district but the other I haven't used in 45 years.I also pay taxes for a college in that same district.This is a little more than $800. a year,almost half of my total taxes even with my homestead exemption.Tell me that is fair!

I was under the impmression that the USA has been in a recession for some time, so that is no news to me. When the Cdn dollar topped then exceeded the Am $ for the first time in over 30 years, it was evident then. You guys have an election coming up next year, whoever wins will be credited for bringing the USA out of a recession. Politics!

Interesting topic, Social Security. We've been told for years and years that there won't be any $$ left in the pot for us late boomers in Canada, too. So, I don't expect any.

I was raised to look after number 1. Meaning, don't count on / expect any government assistance, even if you have paid into it. Then if you do happen to get Social Security / Canada Pension, then it's a bonus.

No, I don't have stockpiles of cash in my closet, wish I did! But I've been saving for my retirement since I started working full time. It was mandatory in my family that we put something aside for later on. It was a pain in the butski, but I'm glad I did what I was told, for a change. lol

Of course, I plan on working for as long as possible (there is no longer a "retirement age" in Canada). My husband who is 10 years older than me, is taking an early retirement next year, due to health reasons and we have a 13 year old at home who is hell bent on spending her inheritance while we are still lucid *lol*.

There are no guarantees in life. A recession is better than a depression. Sometimes it's needed to shake up an economy, we (Canada)have been through recessions before and rebounded nicely.

Just an outsider's point of view.

BJ

Amen to what Lillie and Monica said. Our children have been out of school for years but we still have to pay those taxes. We worked our rears off for years to enjoy the little bit of SS that we get. Think of how many seniors die soon after starting receiving their SS, so never get to get back all they paid in for years.

BJ - outsiders sometimes have a clearer perspective. We've always had economic downturns and corrections; we've always managed to rebound or at least get back to some kind of level ground. But it just seems that once you give something a "name" it takes on a life of its own.

When SS was instituted in 1935 and taxes were first collected to fund the program starting in 1937, it was intended to augment one's "golden years", not to be the sole source of income. I just looked at the SS papers we get every year in advance of our birthdays, and it's obvious to even the most casual observer that recipients will get far more out of the system than they ever paid in - assuming they live several years beyond the start of their benefits. And as for taxes paid on the benefits; well, that's simply the cost of an entitlement.

In my heart of hearts, I believe SS will be solvent for generations to come - it's one of the few government programs that actually works and tinkering with it to "fix" it will surely be the death knell (and I think the powers that be know this which is why there's very little talk about reforms these days). One major thing that will contribute to keeping the program solvent is that the Baby Boomers won't be retiring in droves as everyone is continually predicting. Being 62 is young these days and many of them are in satisfying jobs that they'd hate to give up and many of them have a lifestyle to maintain that they're not willing to give up. And despite all their good luck and good fortune, many Boomers didn't start thinking about the financial aspects of retirement until quite late in their careers. It's hard to play catch up.

Bulldinkie, I enjoyed this post and all the comments. If you feel some were being harsh on you please let it roll off your back, I'm not well educated when it comes to politics, this helps to explain some things to me and look at situations in a different angle. Happy New Year wishes to you.

As for the comments about paying into a School Tax system when one isn't using it...Would it be better to leave that soley up to the parents of the kids to support? Many would, but imagine the parents that would rather drink and smoke that money away rather then shell out for their kids. We'd have even more deliquents running loose on the streets, starting fires and thieving and causing trouble. At least now every kid has the opportunity for the basics of education. In a perfect world it could be this way, parents would pay for their kids (and take care of them and teach them manners and discipline them), everyone would work and set aside money for the times when they lose their job, or for their retirement, and not have to rely on others to support them. But..this world is not perfect, and the systems in place are not perfect but were set up with the intention to assist, and lighten the burden for many at different times in their lives.

I think it's very pig-headed to blame people completely and not consider the facts. People have less disposable income than they did years ago. Yes, we buy more but goods costs proportionately less. Basic cost for housing, education and health care have risen dramatically.

We bought a home for less that 100K, drive our cars till they drop (I'm only on my second car in my lifetime and I'm 38), don't have cc debt, we still have dial-up internet, no digital cable, no fancy clothes, no fancy vacations, most of our furniture are hand-me-downs, we eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at or out of the home, etc.

We still feel the pinch. I can pinch pennies all I want but everyone else wants more dollars from me. EVERY bill has gone up. Property taxes have gone up hundreds since we bought our home just 6 years ago. Basic cable has doubled since I moved to this area 7-8 years ago. Groceries are going up the average of 50 cents per item. Daycare has just gone up $10 per week. Trash collection, water and sewer, electricity, etc has all gone up. I'm sitting here freezing my butt off just to pay what I was paying, it doesn't save me any money.

We can't live off of DH's pay because his company charges so much for family healthcare and he doesn't have the skills to pick and choose jobs. Many of the lower paid workers at his job can only make enough money to cover the cost of the healthcare and then only have enough left over to live off of by working massive amounts of overtime.

I don't think retirees are exempt from this. I see DH's grandmother struggle to make ends meet and she worked through much of her life as a seamstress and her deceased spouse worked for the state.

Believe me, I see people making stupid mistakes - buying too much home, driving large new SUVs, running up cc debt, etc but even those of us who are trying to do things right are having trouble getting ahead.

I still think many older people deserve the credit for being a good position now. It may have been easier in some respects but I know it wasn't easy but I think you need to acknowledge that a lot has changed.

Add me to the list of people who have really enjoyed reading everyone's perspective! Bulldinkie, I hope you don't take the "opinions" personally - it's not as if anyone is blaming you for their situation. I apologize if my earlier post sounded confrontational...I was only questioning how someone (anyone?!) could know a week in advance about a Presidential announcement. I'm not saying it couldn't/won't happen - only wondering if someone really had such access to inside information.

But again, I found most of these posts to be very educational. Thanks to all who participated in a civil manner!

bulldinkie, this is a good/great thread, and the kind of discussion that the KT needs...how much fun to discuss something besides the last meal you made or your grandkids...why would you think otherwise...no one has said an unkind word and I wasn't chastising you personally...just giving my opinion....you may not like my opinion or my giving my opinion but at least it provoked an interesting discussion.

Our way may not suit everyone, it is a very individual thing, but someone implied earlier in this thread that some of us had taken advantage of circumstances...and yes maybe we did, a very smart thing to do...but we also made those circumstances and we made them happen as well.

I will tell you all this...at the ripe old age of about 50 years old, (we are 68 now) I had not very much in the bank and my now husband had come out of a divorce where he gave her everything including a big chunk of money every month...He sat down with a pen and paper and we made a retirement plan and we have stuck too it...No one gifted us anything...we made opportunities for ourselves...WE moved at every moment possible so that we could raise the salary...you can't stay with a company and increase your salary more than a small percentage...we wanted 30 or 40 thousand so as soon as we possibly could, we changed jobs and moved yet again to increase the salary and we raised our standard of living but most of it went into the savings account...We hired someone with financial knowledge to help us...We chose our real estate wisely, we made sure that we were going to make money when we sold because we were changing jobs again....We moved/changed jobs 9 times ...yes 9 times in order to raise the amount of money we were making...We packed out goods, our animals and our cars and traipsed across country 9 times to better our situation... No one laid anything in our laps we worked hard for it and we made it happen.......when we made our plan we had a car payment..when that 460 dollars a month was paid off...we immediately started paying that to our savings account...We had a credit card with 3 or 4 thousand on it, we took nearly all of our savings and paid that off and started making that payment to ourselves...we made and amortization table including interest and it went to our savings account and we refused to pay interest to someone else...There are lots of ways to improve your situation but just sitting on your hands and doing nothing about it isn't the answer...We don't have any money issues anymore ...we are retired and living pretty good but no one and nothing did it for us...we did it ourselves in the same time frame that you all are talking about because we were willing to do it...and in the end...we had a great time moving to new places and meeting new people and changing our lifestyle with each move...

Bulldinkie I for one am glad you started this post. It seems there is a lot of different opinions on this matter. The one thing I did notice, no one mentioned " why are so mang immigrants gettingt the SS payments. They haven't paid in a cent towards it. DH and I have have been retired over 20 years. Our income hasn't caught up with the cost of living. Thankfully we aren't in debt and have to watch close because of medical expenses/\.

I've also found these posts interesting.

I've noticed that a lot of people seem to panic when the word recession is mentioned. I'm not referring to anyone here; I'm mainly referring to almost panicked reports on the news, "We're officially in a recession." Recession is a natural part of the economic cycle, as is depression & expansion. The economy can't be in expansion mode all the time. A decline in growth, which is what recession is, doesn't mean that the economy is in terrible shape & in danger of collapse. It's just pulling back a bit from expansion.

One of the segments of the economy that's mentioned a lot is housing. Housing was going at a record pace for a long time. Prices were soaring. I don't see how it could have continued at that pace. When we moved to the area where we live now, many houses were selling 2-3 days after being put on the market. Things have slowed down some here. We know several of the agents who sell for our development & discussed the housing slowdown with them a few weeks ago. They said that while things had slowed down for them, it was more like a return to normal. They were selling at a record pace & knew it wouldn't last. A slight recession will cause prices to drop & the cycle will start over.

It is very hard for a lot of people to get ahead economically. There are circumstances beyond peoples' control that cause them to be in a bad situation. I also know people who contribute plenty to their financial woes. One lady I know works two jobs & complains about what she & her husband can't afford. But both of them have motorcycles in addition to cars. She told me the payment on hers was $350/month. They also both smoke a lot & go out for lunch every day. A financial planner (or most of us) could probably save them quite a bit of money every month. A single mom I know sometimes barely makes it to pay her electric bill before they turn her power off. But she buys her kids expensive electronics, her son has a new truck & she has a new car. These people will have trouble when retirement time comes because they aren't putting anything away now. But I know other people who struggle & who don't have new cars, etc. I'm talking about people making $10/hour. But even many of them go out to lunch & spend $5-$10 each day on that, plus snacks from vending machines, which can add another $1 (or more) per day per person. You could easily cut that by bringing lunch & snacks from home.