Ya, it's called 'bullying' and is passed on from generation to generation - his mother was just mirroring what she saw as a kid. I would even go so far as to bet he wasn't even her kid - probably a step kid.

My dil keeps picking bullys for boyfriends and they treat the kids 'just like my dad taught me' - horrific behavior and just shows 'zero' instead of 'hero'!

I feel sorry for kids treated that way. It just makes me sick. And she'll be wondering why he behaves badly--drugs, wrong friends, poor school work, etc. She was probably treated that way.

You lost me on the hot dog story, although if those hot dogs are like the ones at our Home Depot with the grilled onions and peppers, I don't blame her for waiting!

The hot-dog story was just to show that the little kid is spoiled enough that the parents let her have her way. Even though they said no, that they had things to do, and no time, she made such a fuss wanting a hot-dog, that they let her have her way.

The vendor wasn't there, and she stood in his spot, under the canopy till he showed up, and when he did show up he still had to get set up and cook them, all the while she was adamant that she had to have a hot-dog, and the parents let her have her way.

The little girl should have been fireman's carried to the car (if it were abusive, firemen wouldn't do it, eh?). My GD has pushed me a time or two to my limit and I sincerely don't know what to do at times. Ya can't give 'em a butt whack anymore, you can't yell at them (like in a doctor's office)....I've tried the clenched teeth thingie - it still comes out as a loud growl. Stinky eye doesn't work on a 3 1/2 yo.

My solution.... Some toy commercial comes on TV, she thinks she really needs one and I assure her that they probably have them at Target. "Oh, Nana, let's go get one!" Me: "You're joking, right? The way you acted at the vets the other day? You didn't listen to me, you didn't sit down when I asked you to, you were into things. No way am I going to take you to Target and put up with THAT again. Pppppffftttt." I've had the promises of, "I promise I will do good this time, PLEASE!" Get to Target, she acts up, I jerk her out of the cart and off we go back to the car and head for home. I love it the next time that toy commercial comes on TV. Me: "Geez, we could have had one of those but you didn't keep your promise. I bet they're all sold out now." Yes, a 3 1/2 yo gets it.

That poor 14 yo boy. My mother was like his mother (or whatEVER she was)and I've seen this scenario. Ya really wanna go beat the mother about the head with a frozen ham hock but you know you can't. When I can, I stop, find something - ANYTHING - cool about the kid and engage him for just a second. "Cool shirt. It looks good on you. My kid would love it." Then, you hide behind your car in the parking lot, wait for that Mom, grab your frozen ham hock, step by step, slowly you creep up...... Okay, J/K. But, you know you want to.

Darn it! I live with this every day and I simply hate it. DGS (autistic) and we "sit" him frequently and his parents let him run their lives too often and of course he tries it with us all of the time. If he feels like it, he IS an unmovable object, at 6'tall. Doesn't get away with it here usually and unless parents are around....parents trump GParents
every time.. No answers, but we sort of understand that parents ARE desperately trying to make up for what they (might) subconsciously believe is their fault.....not realizing how crippling their actions are. At least too often.I shouldn't write this as they have done a great job, but certain aspects they don't see and won't listen....and society (you and me) get to witness what is really unacceptable behavior. (Vent finished) Nanny

Roco, I do that, too - try to change the scenerio, either by jesting with the kiddo or distract the parent with a wry comment.

It is no service not to instill discipline at an early age to any child. Even special needs children need discipline.

No you don't have to hit. (although some kids just need a good whack on the backside to get their attention) Discipline is merely setting boundaries and sticking by them.

I have noticed something else that may or may not be related. The giant double strollers. You used to see them only used by parents who had very closely spaced children. Now you see parents pushing 4 and 5 year olds in them. No wonder the kids are fat!!! Mine were exactly 2 years apart. It never even occurred to me to put my DD in a stroller once the baby came. I asked some younger people about it and their theory "it was for expediency". Parents are too rushed today to deal with their kids walking so they just would rather push them around pushing them in their huge carts while they stare at their cells phones. No relating to the kids at all.

On the flip side I see infants and toddlers who seem never to be picked up. Always in some contraption or other, the car seat, the infant seat, the stroller, the bouncy chair, even that silly plastic thing that forces the kid into sitting up.

What happened to cuddling, snuggling and lap sitting? Poor kids lack the parents touch,are propped with bottles,given tapes to listen to instead of being read to and we wonder why learning disabilities are up.

I've always thought that kids need to learn that they are responsible for their own actions at as early an age as possible, within reason.

Example 1: Son is 5 years old and refuses to put his coat on in the middle of Winter. Some parents plead, beg, & bribe to get them to do it. Let them go without. I purposely left the heater off in the car. In a few blocks his teeth were almost chattering. He says, "I'm cold." I commented, "I'm sure glad I have my coat on." Next time I suggested he needed a coat I got no argument.

Example 2: A 6th grader forgets her permission slip to go to the zoo on a field trip. She calls home and Mom runs to the school with said slip. Let the kid sit in the office all day. I bet she remembers it next time.

Example 3: 14 year old son wants a new boom box (I'm showing my age here.) but doesn't have enough saved up. He asks Dad to advance his allowance. Dad agrees if he gets some collateral. "What's collateral?" After an explanation Father and son agree that his bike can be collateral. A month later when the son misses a weekly payment he finds his bike padlocked to the workbench in the garage. "Of course you can have your bike, as soon as you make this weeks payment, son." It's much easier to learn this lesson with a bike at age 14 than with a car at age 22.

Climbing down off my soapbox now.

Ron

Sherry, the parents in both your incidents need to take parenting classes. Some kids are such brats and it is the parent's fault, any child is going to push to see how far they can get, that is just normal. Parents need to remember that they are the PARENT, not the best friend. And sometimes this means saying NO. The woman in the grocery store also needs to be taught that her child deserves respect.

You may be right about the first scenario, I don't know. Perhaps you were in a position to hear everything that went on and your judgment is correct.

But I have been guilty of something like scenario number 1 when my kids were little, and my kids didn't grow up entitled at all. Situation in my case would have been something like one of these cases. I might have been in a hurry, made an uninformed decision and told my kid I didn't have time, and my kid might have reminded me that he didn't eat because he was at the ball field all day, or some other good reason.

Or, my kids have often negotiated with me to get what they wanted. When I was busy I often encouraged my kids to trade with me by doing extra chores for me so I'd have more time to do what they wanted. They were doing that by age 6 or 7.

A lot of moms today are so busy juggling work and home, sports, PTA, and all that goes with it. I can certainly see busy parents rethinking their decision and waiting for their little girl to have her hot dog.

I'm so sorry you see so much entitlement of children today. Certainly I see some, as well. But I see many hard-working, responsible, well-brought-up kids, too. I help kids who drop out of school prepare for their GED exams, and some of them do have an entitlement mentality. But many of them work very hard under difficult circumstances, and I am so proud of them for all they accomplish. Most of my "kids" I help prepare are polite and grateful for the help, and I get a lot of thanks and quite a few hugs. They always offer to carry heavy books and crates, put up tables, pick up, etc. They always wait politely for me to help others.

Not trying to argue, just wanted to offer a different perspective.

I agree with Ronf. Be predictable when you raise them. If you stand by your word, they will trust you the rest of their life.

I also think that if kids have an allowance then they can buy what they want because they earned it by pitching in around the house. They may have to save up for a couple of weeks and by the time they save up they really never wanted it in many cases. And, they have to wait until their birthday or Christmas for many things. This is a big one for me since I had a budget I had to live by. Your competition in all of this is other families who buy their kids anything, anytime.

Start discipline early, praise them every day with love and attention and save as much as you can for any hard times ahead and speak to them in a soft voice. Parents who yell have kids you yell. Just my HO.

On the stroller front - I too have been noticing more of these. And I do know why, it is EASIER. I can tell you, once DD was out of a stroller and walking around, I would look longingly at the kids still strapped in and envying the parents LOL!

I have also noticed kids 3 and over not only still wearing diapers, but walking around in a diaper so heavy with pee it sags. Really, I know the new diapers can hold more liquid. It doesn't mean you should keep it on them until it hits the max! Again, I think it is easier to let the children stay in diapers rather than deal with potty trips and accidents when you are out. There was a while there, I could swear I breathed in more "bathroom air" on an outing than fresh air an entire day, with DD - tee hee!

Dances.

Why do you see parents in the grocery store after nine at night with cranky kids and obvious sleepy babies in tow, especially on a school night? Happens way too often and regardless of the urgency to "go out" many parents today seem to forget why they have a crib at home and that baby and toddlers need to sleep and on a schedule. They have to be fed when hungry, not a bottle shoved in their mouths with juice or even worse Chocolate milk. At a rather famous eat out place I actually saw a parent put milkshake from her other kids container in a bottle for a baby not much more than 8 months, the child was sitting in a high chair but didn't seem to have the stability to sit alone but leaned left and right. Parent didn't have any problem eating what was on her tray, but where was some baby food for the little one? Whoever heard tell of leaving home without thinking to take something for the baby "just in case" we didn't make it home in time for their meal. How nourishing was that? Parenting skills should be a required subject in school. Failure in this course is not an option. Where do you think the behaviour problems start....a sugary diet from the start which also leads to health problems. When you say NO say it and mean it ...kids soon know what a deal breaker is. If you continue to give in after being nagged at for a bit it is NOT the kids fault for their actions, they are kids and going to do as kids do. Can't blame the kiddos on this one.

So many problems. So many causes. Most of which are simply lack of common sense. I want my kids to have everything I didn't have. I want my kids to be my *friends*! I don't understand the difference between beating the kid bloody and spanking so I'll never spank my kids. I can reason with my 2 year old. Oh they're just kids being kids! along with the myriad of other rationalization for incompetent parenting.

"Child-rearing", as referred to in the subject line, might well include a minor swat on the rear, at times, were not one in fear of being charged with assault.

I agree that young people need to be taught early that each action has consequences.

I agree that many parents spoiled their children, while saying that they didn't want the kid to undergo the privations that they'd had to.

As one female singer, who I think was black, said, "I've been rich ... and I've been poor: rich is better".

Getting used to living lower on the hog, as is in the cards for about 80% of us in the western world, I think, is more difficult than learning to live higher on the hog, as most of us had the privilege of enjoying in an earlier generation.

ole joyful

Ugh. These issues make me crazy.

Another thing I don't understand is when parents think it's CUTE when their kids act like divas. Or think it's funny when their 3 year old sasses. Um, do parents not realize that they're raising a BRAT? It's not cute when they start to get older and challenge your word! It's not cute when they don't have respect for your rules and snap at you! And it's really not cute when they think it's okay to act that way with other family members or strangers.

My kids aren't perfect by any means, but they are sweet and wouldn't dream of behaving that way. I attribute it to God, 3 years of "Along the Virtuous Way" classes and consistent parenting from both DH and I. :)

Blessings,
Haley