You might want to try the Hot Topics forums on this. Personally, I think you are showing ignorance of the situation.

I guess I don't understand how your questions relate to the new law. Is there some correlation between gender identity and being a pedophile or rapist that I am not aware of?

I would suggest researching what being transgender actually means.

Also agree that this isn't the right forum.

Yes, this belongs over at HT. That being said, here's the real
info rather than just the uninformed statement above.

From SFGate:

New state law opens doors for transgender students
Ellen Huet
Updated 2:14 pm, Monday, August 12, 2013

(08-12) 14:15 PDT San Francisco -- Transgender students in California public schools will be allowed to participate in school groups and use school facilities based on their gender identities, turning a policy that several school districts already follow into statewide law.

Assembly Bill 1266 will ensure that schools respect students' gender identity with respect to sports teams, locker rooms, restrooms and all other programs and facilities. The bill, signed by Governor Jerry Brown on Monday, was introduced by State Assemblyman Tom Ammiano (D-San Francisco).

State law already prohibits discrimination in schools on the basis of gender identity, but backers of the measure say the extra clarity in the law will go a long way in making a growing population of transgender students feel comfortable and safe at school.

"Being accepted or not accepted at school makes all the difference in the world for these kids," said Shannon Minter, the legal director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights, a San Francisco organization that sponsored the bill. "That's in terms of both their abilities to succeed in school in the short term and their long-term health and well-being."

The law will go into effect on Jan. 1, 2014. Minter said the Center for Lesbian Rights and other advocates hope that school districts will look for guidance from districts like San Francisco and Los Angeles, which already have long-standing policies to accommodate transgender students.

Barring a transgender student from using a locker room that aligns with his or her gender identity can create barriers to achieving needed credits for graduating, supporters of the change have said, and stopping a student from participating on a sports team diminishes involvement in school.

They said some students feel unsafe at school when they are required to use a restroom that doesn't match their gender identity. The newly signed law includes the phrase that the access to programs, facilities and activities shall be granted "irrespective of the gender listed on the pupil's records."

Opponents had raised many concerns, with state Sen. Jim Nielsen, R-Gerber (Tehama County), calling it an "extraordinarily consequential piece of legislation" that he said many parents and students would be reticent to accept.

He said students "now may be subjected to some very difficult situations and their parents to even more objectionable situations."

Other Republican senators have wondered about students who might take advantage of the law to participate on an opposite-sex sports team, and how the California Interscholastic Federation would handle such a situation.

The federation, which oversees high school athletics in California, has a policy that is in line with the bill for transgender students who want to play on teams that conform with their gender identity.

The San Francisco policy granting students access to the locker room or restroom of their gender identity has been in place since the 1990s. District officials that they knew of about 150 middle school students last school year and 300 high school students who identified as transgender.

Those numbers come from a yearly survey the district gives to students and represent about 1.5 percent of those enrolled.

San Francisco Unified, is the only public school district in the country to survey whether students identify as transgender.

I just think our world is getting screwed up more all the time. We have so many other things we need to be working on!!

Well, excuse me! Where is the Hot Topics Forum?

Hot topics

Here is a link that might be useful: hot topics

Phoggie, you don't want to go there. It is a nasty place.

It is probably a hot topic but I think that people can have a calm rational discussion about this. I think it's find for both sides to be heard.

What is a pedifile and where on earth are the results of studies, or statistics, that indicate that the transgendered must be rapists? Oh, you read it on the internet? Must be true! SMH

She didn't say transgender people are pedophiles, smh. I think she meant what's to prevent someone from using that as an excuse to gain access.

I agree with Phoggie. And I definitely agree with susie53 about Hot Topics.

That is correct, Phoggie did not say that transgenders are pedophiles.

Hot Topics is a very nasty place. And to answer your question, yes he has gone mad. Biggest idiot around.

Does this new law only affect schools and lockers rooms or does it include public restrooms?

Just curious.....

Hey, there was once a time when I was shopping at an outlet mall where the ladies were lined up for what looked like a mile to use the restroom. I had to go so bad I went to the COMPLETELY EMPTY men's room right next door. I can see where this "new law" might work for me.....

Ignorance, and intolerance, are just inexcusable, in my realm of reallity! When I was in 1st grade? 6?, I had a friend who had a speech impediment (stuttered). He was tormented!
I walked him to and from school every day. Played with him during recess. Ate lunch with him every day. RIP Fred! He killed himself!
I had a neighbor, when I was in 6th grade, 12?, that was a male on the top, but had female genitalia on the bottom ... he was smart, funny, talented (played guitar and sang), tried to teach me how to skateboard, paint and read me poems and stories from his journal ... he was sent to a mental institution and I never heard from him again.
I need to quit coming to this board ... the paranoia levels are lethal!

The law is for schools that have Kindergarten through 12th grade. I have yet to see a school that has both Kindergarten kids and 12th grade kids, so no one should be getting their knickers in a twist that older kids will prey on younger kids. Also, it is for the restrooms that STUDENTS use. Teachers don't use the same restrooms as students. It also affects sports programs. Male students who self-identify as female can choose to play "female sports," and female students who self-identify as males can choose to play "male sports."

This isn't a situation where a boy who self-identifies as a girl will go into a girl's bathroom and oggle the other girls. The "male" child firmly believes that "he" is a she and would be just like any other girl in there. "He" would be uncomfortable in a boy's bathroom. And vice versa.

Angelaid, I am so sorry to hear about your childhood friends.

Not the biggest idiot around......maybe the second biggest idiot around.

So why not have "neutral" restrooms? So the rights of the girls and boys that are made "uncomfortable" sharing the restrooms are protected also?

I don't want any child to suffer. But it seems things are swinging way to far the other way now. To make sure a handful of transgender children don't feel uncomfortable we will force all the other children (and their parents) into an uncomfortable situation.

Surely there is a compromise somewhere.

Katlan, I agree with you and you said it so much better than I could have. I sometime have a problem conveying my opinion without offending.

How is it that the California governor gets all the credit? He didn't "pass" the law,,,,the legislature did that, by at least a majority, who represent their constituents. That misspeak, along with your inclusion of the terms "pedifile & rape" into your critique don't exactly lend credence to your objections or your knowledge or position on the topic.

Having read what Lindakathy posted, it is about school children!

" To make sure a handful of transgender children don't feel uncomfortable we will force all the other children (and their parents) into an uncomfortable situation."

I highly doubt that ALL children and parents will be uncomfortable
with the situation. Children are generally very flexible and
tolerant. Parents should be teaching their children about differences and acceptance. Although there may be isolated
cases of awkwardness, I see no reason for hysteria.

To me, this is just the next step in progression. Not all that long ago, the majority of the population of the US would be uncomfortable with certain races, religions or sexual orientations using the same bathroom. Now it's (nearly) universally accepted as a protected right.

People are born into their race, and often religion, but I also don't believe sexual orientation or being transgender is a choice. This isn't something new - it's just a time where people can start being themselves without worrying about persecution or violence like in the past.

I also think it's a generational issue. I bet the only people that would be uncomfortable with it are the parents. Most kids these days are very open-minded to different people/lifestyles and that only changes when the parents or society intervenes and tells them it's "wrong" or that they should fear/hate certain people.

"The law is for schools that have Kindergarten through 12th grade. I have yet to see a school that has both Kindergarten kids and 12th grade kids"

This is incorrect. It is not for single schools covering all grades, but for schools that cover any of those grades.

My niece used to be my nephew. She went through sex change operations and a lot of counselling. Her childhood and through her teen years we have since discovered, was torturous. She left the family for a number of years because she thought she was a freak. When she decided to come back she was welcomed back with open arms - we don't/didn't care.

She is now 30 with a great partner and we have met his mom and his grandma - they don't care either.

I would give the proverbial shirt off my back if it would help people be more accepting of everyone.

This can be a 'teachable moment' for parents to teach their children tolerance. First some parents will have to learn it for themselves to be able to teach it. I agree with Chi83, the kids will be more open minded about it than the adults in their world.

Things have to swing way far the other way~~times are changing, we need to change with it.

My DD#2 is a high school teacher they have a club on campus~~called Gay/Straight Alliance~~to teach kids tolerance. Teachers can post a rainbow in their classroom windows, so the kids know this is a safe place to go it they are being bullied or scared.

We need to be a more tolerant society and teach our children Peace.

I am not trying to speak for phoggie. I'm just going to tell you what my interpretation of her point was. I think she meant that she is concerned that people who are NOT transgendered, but are, in fact, pedophiles, may go into the opposite gender's restroom with the intent to accost a child and use this transgender ruling to do so (ie presenting themselves as such and "using the restroom" on that basis.

just in case you like to "meet" jerry brown here you go!

Here is a link that might be useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Brown

How should we protect from those pedophiles who "accost" a child in the restroom who is the same sex as the pedophile?

For that matter, even without this law, there wouldn't be anything stopping the pedo from dressing up in the opposite sex costume &entering the girls' restroom. Pedophiles lurking in school rr's doesn't seem to be of high incidents. The rape/pedophile angle against this law falls far short of a winning argument.

Blfenton it was good of you to relate a personal experience that hopefully aids people's understanding of the human element.

No need to get your undies in a bunch about this ruling.

I don't consider Hot Topics 'nasty'. Gosh, I haven't seen that word in ages! Wasn't there an old play about an old lady having had her life *ruined* by having seen something nasty in the woodshed as a child? (Think it turned out to be worms. Anyway it was a big whoop-dee-do over nothing.)

When unlikely/implausible outcomes are projected to result from some new law, it usually means to me: "I'm not comfortable with this or I don't like this based on my gut reaction...but that's not much of an argument, so I'll come up with something alarming to rationalize my dislike." This is an ages old human characteristic, but it's been brought to a high level of perfection by certain elements of the media in recent years.

This post was edited by kudzu9 on Tue, Aug 13, 13 at 23:04

sushipup started her post by quoting me, "The law is for schools that have Kindergarten through 12th grade. I have yet to see a school that has both Kindergarten kids and 12th grade kids"

She then said, "This is incorrect. It is not for single schools covering all grades, but for schools that cover any of those grades."

That cut a bit short of what I said, which was, "The law is for schools that have Kindergarten through 12th grade. I have yet to see a school that has both Kindergarten kids and 12th grade kids, so no one should be getting their knickers in a twist that older kids will prey on younger kids."

Apparently some folks need every word spelled out for them, so I will now add to that...

I have yet to see a school that has both Kindergarten kids and 12th grade kids -- schools generally are "grade school" with Kindergarten through 6th grade, then "junior high" with grades 7 and 8, or "middle school" with grades, 7, 8, and 9, and then "high school" for grades 9, 10, 11, and 12 (or grades 10, 11, and 12 in the areas that have middle schools with 9th grade).

SO, what I meant was no one needs to get their knickers in a twist that a senior in high school is going to go into an opposite sex bathroom to oggle the little kids in 1st grade. Unless, of course, you consider 9th and 10th graders to be little kids compared to 12th graders.

Sheesh.

I stand corrected.

Lindsay CA our school is pre-kindergarten thru grade12. They share the same lunch room, gym, locker room and bathrooms. Most schools around here are similar. We have less than 300 PreK thru grade 12. I only say this because I thought you might get a chuckle about my school school.

Scissors....your little town schools are not the only ones that have K-12 in one building. Many towns in my area are the same way....grades K-6 on one floor and 7-12 on the upper floor but they all use the same restrooms, lunchrooms, gymnasium, etc.

Susieque, thanks...you put my concerns in better words than I did.

I did find Hot Topics but from the few that I read, "nasty" pretty well fits..just my opinion!

I'm still trying to get my head around someone thinking that some male is going find an empty classroom, strip off his day clothes, and don women's clothes and makeup so he can go hang out in the girls bathroom for a while. Presumably this would be someone who is a student or staff member, and is well known by the school inhabitants.

Then what? He rushes back to an empty classroom, jumps back into his real daytime male clothes and hopes no one notices?

Or were they thinking that a male pedaphile would introduce himself into a new school dressed up as a woman so he could lurk in the girls bathroom, and live the rest of his days in the school dressed like a girl so no one would know?

ROTFLMAO

Good one Tally.
ROFLMAO

I went to school back in the Dark Ages, so this may be entirely unfounded, but if the PE departments in middle and high schools still have those communal showers, how's that going to work? We were expected to shower after PE class and then go out into the locker room, also communal, and dress. If my daughter were in middle or high school, I believe I'd be concerned.

I wish I were as well-spoken as katlan because if I don't hush I'm going to offend people...

phoggie, your assessment of Hot Topics is entirely correct.

I don't think a single child showers after PE anymore..they don't have the time in their schedule..
Well at least in my school district..

Yes..we were expected to in MS/JR High and Highschool..well over 25 years ago...now...not expected...and like I said they give the kids like 6 minutes to change back to street clothes..if that..

I read now & then at Hot Topics & I've never seen any of them dog on the KT. Fact is there are some KT'ers who post at HT. 2 entirely different boards, but just because it isn't your cuppa tea doesn't give license to denigrate that forum, IMO.

Exactly, Beeohio .Two entirely different forums. In high school we did have communal showers, and we ran down quickly from the gym to race in the showers because our lesbian gym teacher would ogle us. We quickly wet our towels and then she caught on and would scream our last name and make us go back in the shower and soap up while she watched.

I think Jerry Brown has it right with the legislation for transgender kids. As far as pedophilia...our local news just in one night, tonight, arrested two high school teachers for having sex with their students, both men, one having sex for a year with a male student, the other a female. Also one music teacher arrested last year was today sentenced to six years in prison for fondling students. All this in one night's news.

So again, what does any of this have to do with transgender identity?

Ha, Lily, I didn't think we went to school together. I went through my entire High School in California. Had the same situations as Lily.
Personally I'm not worried about this transgender stuff. Its few and far between. Well it used to be.
My best friend still lives in California, plus a few others. California is a messed up state. yep it is. Everyone wants their little financial piece of the pocketbook. Lets put it on the Visa card mentality. That's another subject tho.

KT and HT are each prefaced by 'the rules' for the forums.

There is a place for knitting, cooking, chatting about life's ups and downs: The KT.

There is a place for sterner discussion of topics barred on KT, like politics and religion -- which can become *heated*. That's HT.

Choose to participate in any forum -- or not. Most on Garden Web are good forums, just *different*. (Funny that the saying is about staying out of the KITCHEN if you can't take the heat!)

I prefer a reasonable, quiet, thoughtful discussion (here) to a shouting match. Even though some here are inclined to have a sharp tongue, at times, we often have worthwhile (in my opinion) discussions here, which may border on forbidden subject matter ... sort of skating on thin ice. In which situation, usually other reasonable people, rather than the original poster, tell the person kicking up dust to pipe down (if that's not too mixed a metaphor).

ole joyful

How do the more conservatives feel about sharing bathrooms with women who are attracted to women?
Or dressing rooms at the gym?

We should have private stalls and the rest gender neutral. Can't control for attraction.