More power to the Duggars as far as I am concerned. God Bless them. Did you know that by the year 2044, Americans will be in the minority in this country. How disgustingly sad is that!!!

OK, I don't care what the Duggar family does - they work, they pay their taxes - I'm fine with them.

I am not fine with gemini04, however.

I'm curious - what is your definition of an American? How will Americans be in the minority? Every single baby born here is an American, by definition and by law.

I'm not sure what your definition of "American" is. Would you include my daughter-in-law? She came to the US at 13. She speaks flawless Engish. She was born in Japan. She has gone through naturalization. She probably knows more about our government than 90% of the born-here population. Do you consider her "American"?

How can Americans be in the minority by 2044? If you mean "White Christians who worship as I do", maybe you're right. But if that's what you believe, it's offensive to many, many Americans who aren't white, and don't believe as you do.

Whoa, Nelly, Gemini 40!!!! What are you saying??? Are you a Native American?

I'm here again only to broaden my comment. I feel that the "way things are now" twenty is too young for any couple. More education, life experience, etc would offer a better foundation for marriage.

Sue

MARY_C-This may be what gemini40 was referring to.I heard this on the news earlier this morning but didn't catch all of it and it did say the year 2044.I don't think "Americans" was mentioned in this morning's report.
From a USA report:
Minorities expected to be majority in 2050

"By 2050, minorities will be the majority in America, and the number of residents older than 65 will more than double, according to projections released Thursday by the U.S. Census Bureau.
Minorities,classified as those of any race other than non-Hispanic,single-race whites,currently constitute about a third of the U.S. population,according to Census figures. But by 2042, they are projected to become the majority, making up more than half the population.By 2050,54 percent of the population will be minorities."

I thought this post was about the Duggars?????

Yes, Lillipad, this is what gemini was referring to. It happens every few generations that as a new cultural group makes inroads in population, others complain.

Thank you lilliepad and sjerin....my wording of "Americans" was incorrect,however you heard the same news item as did I. Minorities, in particular ,Hispanics, will be the majority population in 2044 according to the report. How does that not seem possible to some. I would like to see the Constitution ammended so children of illegals, who happened to be born here, would not be given citizen status . What we are doing to this great country is disturbing to many of us. Thank you again for clarifying what I heard.

June

I guess we are intitled to our own OPINIONS, but we need to remember that OPINIONS are only OPINIONS and not FACTS!

So here is my OPINION!
Duggar's lives are NORMAL lives!

Since when does a child need to have regular contact and experience with irresponsibility, crime, cruelty, abuse, disrespect, immorality, immodesty and vulgarity in order to be NORMAL? Do people have to know how to use gutter talk to be NORMAL? NOT IN MY WORLD!

Josh is most likely ready for the responsibility of marriage. Most of the kids referred to as NORMAL are having sex w/whoever like wild animals and think nothing of living together out of marriage. Yet that is NORMAL to some of you!

I guess you consider all that to be NORMAL in your space -- BUT you have no right to require that kind of living to be NORMAL for others.

JMHO

Thank you Hayjud, I was thinking the same thing this morning. My normal or REAL life,, the one I am making for my family, is of common sense values. Although I understand there is a mass of immoral values out in the world I don't teach my children they have to live that way now to be able to live in the world as they venture out. They know there are bad things but they are not allowed to live that way in my home. They are taught to resist the nasties the best they can and if they have problems, they can come to us for support.
As far as the Duggars, with as many kids as they have, I'm amazed that they have beaten the odds that at least a few haven't taken the low road. I fully expect that in the near future that at least some children in their family will cause them heartache and sleepless nights. Right now though I truly believe they are giving them a base of good moral values that will be a saving grace when they go out into the so called REAL world. For them, a NORMAL means high moral values, responsibility from an early age, lots of schooling, modesty, respect for elders and so much more. I my opinion I'd rather see that than most of the families that have let ALL of that go out the window because it's not REAL. IMO, it's less stressful for children to have moral values and responsibilities. As Judy said everyone has an opinion to state, to someone who lives a life different from my own, or differnt from the Duggars, that's fine, it doesn't change what we consider normal.
Honestly I know I couldn't raise a large bunch of kids as well as Michele, I could never be organized like that, I couldn't school everyone or keep everyone with a smile on their face like they do. It seems to be the real thing.
Compared to some of the other shows about large families that often come on about the same time as theirs, the Duggars seem the happiest. Most of the others seem to be mass chaos which does make me cringe in dismay. So personally it doesn't matter that the Duggars have so many kids, as long as they are well kept, happy kids.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I don't fault anyone for trying to have a better life for their families, despite where they may have been born. Usually we don't have much say in the matter but we're all human beings.

America is the melting pot. We enjoy freedoms that arenÂt felt elsewhere  where anyone, despite their background, has a home. With the freedom to marry outside of oneÂs race, or religion, or cultural background, we create entire generations of individuals who may have escaped their stereotypical norm and simply live, knowing they have a home here where they can be themselves. Throwing around titles like "minorities" and "majorities" does nothing but fuel hate and prejudice in an act that would have our founding fathers spinning in their graves. Look at the quote above  our symbol of freedom bears those words, welcoming ALL, even the ones that no one else wants.

This country grew as a haven for those persecuted elsewhere. Built on freedom despite individual backgrounds and differences, where everyone had a chance to live the "American dream."

Denying it based on cultural backgrounds is the utmost in hypocrisy, in my opinion. Because unless you are Native American, there's an excellent chance that you come from a line of one of those children who happened to be born in America, with parents from another country. Likely "illegally" in the face of unyielding monarchies taking claim over this country and persecuting anyone who challenged their doctrine.

Interesting to think where weÂd all be now if our ancestors had been kicked out for defying the rules instead of welcomed with open arms, to help build and define this country into the amazing thing that it is today.

AMEN,Hayjud and Toni!

Chi83-I don't mean to be rude but this thread started as a discussion about the Dugger family.This is not the place to discuss the topic you posted since it has nothing to do with the Euggers,even though I am sure there are many who would agree with you.Maybe you would like to start a new discussion with your post on another thread?? There is another Garden Web forum called "HOT TOPICS" that might be more suitable for that type of discussion.

Mmm, fair enough. My apologies for straying off-topic.

Who are the Duggars? I've never heard of them. Guess I'm the minority.

I'm no fan of the way the parents are raising the children either. To cult-like for my tastes. Same clothes and hair style. No individuality at all. They keep them home and isolated, no other friends. They are told what to think and say. Older ones have to take care of the younger ones. That is not a child's job to do. If you have so many children that you have to schedule parenting time that is just wrong and you are not doing right by the children. I could go on with what imo is wrong with these parents after watching both the television shows but it has all been said before. The Duggars are far from being a normal family. And as I have said before I feel so badly for the children. They weren't raised to be functioning adults in this world only the sheltered cult world of their parents. How sad. NancyLouise

I think of them in the same context as June/Ward Cleaver in "Leave it to Beaver"; or Marion/Howard Cunningham in "Happy Days"; or Andy Griffiths/Opie/Aunt Bee in "Andy Griffiths Show" ~~ only difference is that these shows never pretended to be "reality" shows.

I keep reading over and over that Josh is shletered, "looks like a pedohpile", doesn't have a job, and is not ready for marriage. I would just like to know where any of you gather your facts. He owns two of his own companies, one with his brother, and helped his father all while he was in politics. I guess he can't be quite as sheltered as some of you would like believe if he deals with the "public" so frequently with his two businesses. I believe this young man is more ready for marriage than anyone on this forum. Yes, I believe he is young, but what right do we have to say their love isn't real? They met at a homeschool conference and it must have been nice to meet a girl with the same life values and style as his. I commend them for and the Duggar family for raising children of such wonderful moral fiber. I seriously doubt we will see anytime soon any of their children involved in crime or with the police. Maybe some of you should do a little research before bashing others because their lifestyle is different than yours. Just because it is different does not make it wrong.

I agree,,,different is not wrong. Neither are body piercings or tatoos ,,,but they still give me the creeps!Its no skin off my nose how anyone chooses to live,what does bother me is the way they exploit their lifestyle(what woman in her right mind would take all those kids with her for an ultrasound,and what idiotic hospital would allow that?)Lifestyles are a personal choice,and Im not to judge whether its right or wrong.But putting your family in the public eye for monetary gain is questionable.No amount of money would entice me to have my family on tv and have my children exploited in that manner.Their lifestyle is not the issue to me,right OR wrong,but the exploitation ,in my opinion is disturbing.

why do people fight about people whom they don't even know???

why do people fight about people whom they don't even know???

I think because it is one of the few Hot Topics that can be discussed/debated here. Some folks sure seem to have some strong opinions, just as I do, but I will not share them here. The Duggars and a few others (Oprah come to mind) get bashed by some every month or so it seems.

I just kinda shake my head in disgust and move on.

"what woman in her right mind would take all those kids with her for an ultrasound,and what idiotic hospital would allow that?" I see nothing wrong with having siblings present for an ultrasound! It's not like the mom is toatally nude and being probed and prodded.LOL After all,the baby inside her is part of the family.I see absolutely nothing wrong with having one or 17 siblings present,that is unless you are a prude and think kids shouldn't know things like that??
"why do people fight about people whom they don't even know???" I don't understand that either.The only reason I respond to these posts is because I think it is so ridiculous that people can form opinions and make judgments about people they don't even know!I say live and let live.I admire the Duggers.

Im not a prude at all,,,but most hospitals would frown upon having a bunch of little ones standing around in the way. Once again,Im not against the Duggars,,,I honestly admire their wholesome lifestyle.Its just the exploiting I am disturbed with. I feel the same about the Jon and Kate+8 family.They exploit their families for monetary gain,and thats scary to me.With their little children getting so much public attention,I would fear for them.Its not a safe world for kids anymore.I would be concerned with all the publicity that the children might one day,resent it.I am not saying things to be judgemental,,Im just making an observation.If these families choose to be in the spotlight they can expect to have people form opinions about them.

Jim Bob Duggar is in real estate and Michelle has her real estate license too. They own several commercial rental properties. They are expecting their 18th child now-not sure about the due date, may have already been born. TLC did not build their house for them, as a matter of fact Jim Bob and the whole family, mostly the older guys, built about 75% of the house themselves. Anything they didn't know how to do, they learned from experts and then done it themselves. They finally did get help to finish the house because they had been working on it for three years and it still wasn't done. It is a huge, beautiful house.
I have never seen anything suggesting that they take handouts. They shop for clothes at thrift stores. So do I. Shoot me. Yes some of their appliances and furniture was donated by the companies that make them. Great advertising for the companies if you ask me.
They take care of their own and do a great job. The kids all have their own personalities, so I don't see them as little clones. They do have a TV and a computer and the internet, so they are not completely out of touch, as if the lack of those things would make you out of touch.
They all seem happy and well adjusted to me.
Watch for the new episode. They go to New York. Good Stuff.
I don't think they are exploiting their kids. It is entertainment. I watch the Duggars and Jon and Kate Plus 8, because I just love both shows. If you don't like them and you feel negative about the show, either show, why do you continue to watch. Live and let live.

I dont watch.Once was enough.I have my own family to worry about,and it isnt in providing "entertainment" and getting paid for it...

LOL,it's entertainment,it isn't entertainment,they are getting paid to exploit their kids,they aren't exploiting their kids!
Why don't we all just agree to disagree and be done with it! Let these people live their lives the way they see fit because in reality,we don't know what their lives are REALLY like.LOL Isn't that what is called a free country? Yes,that also means we can all have opinions and express them but why beat someone up just because we can? LOL
This show and the one with the Gosselin family were meant to entertain as well as give the audience a look at how life is/can be with many children.In my opinion they both do just that.It's entertainment,no different than a movie or other TV show.As for them getting paid or getting perks,I say,"Why not"? If someone was in my home 24/7 with cameras filming my every move I would certainly expect some kind of compensation! From what I can see from the show neither of these families seem to be living the high life style of millionaires so I think it would be pretty safe to say they aren't getting paid that much!
I look at both these shows in the same way I do any other TV show,if you don't like it,don't watch it.If you do like it,watch it and possibly learn some things and be entertained in the process!LOL
Everyone have a great day!

caroline, do you have children? When I was pregnant with my youngest, my other children got a big kick out of hearing the little one's heartbeat on the ultrasound. Not only did the hospital not mind them being there, they were thrilled about it. The attending nurse said she wished more siblings were as interested.

I'm amazed at the judgment I've seen expressed here and at the linked article -- some of it comes across as poorly-disguised venom. As long as the Duggars are providing for their own family, as long as we taxpayers are not having to do so, isn't it really up to them how they live, how many children they have?

(I should add, my husband and I were only 21 and 18 when we married. We've been married more than 35 years, have children and grandchildren, and are very happy.)

To whomever said Joshua Duggar looks like a pervert -- huh??? The eye of this beholder doesn't see that, at all.

His new wife has a college degree. From all I've seen and heard of them, they are as far from isolated as I've ever seen -- they just don't live like many other people do. They are Christians, they take the Bible seriously, they do not 'go with the flow' of our decadent culture. It seems to me that's a good thing.

I have not chosen to live as they do; my family is small compared to theirs. But, I must say, when I see the Justins, Britneys (especially Spears' poor little ones), Mileys, and Lindsays of the world, the Duggars' children -- and their life -- look wonderful in comparison. If anyone is being exploited, I think it's the kids like the celebrities I named, plus the Olson twins. JMHO

OOOooops...I was searching for "Caroline," looking for lost posts, and thought you were addressing me, the North Dakota "Caroline."

I was thinking "Huh?" I hadn't responded to this post." before I realized what was going on and you were talking to caroline1947.

Well, they did get married and it will be featured in the new Duggar TV shows. Supposedly Anna is moving into the Duggar household because Josh doesn't even know how to rent an apartment for them to live in. This is a 20y/o who's parents still pick out his clothes for him to wear and who has been sharing a room in his parents home with his grade school age siblings.

The two 'companies' he "owns" are; a part time consulting business where you can reach him by phone and have a 20y/o guide you through your business problems, and a used car business. The used car thing appears to be a broker sort of business and nothing more. They never had any inventory whenever I checked. As of today he has two cars listed; a '96 Chevy and an '02 auto.

Josh and Anna courted through a long distance relationship and their very few in person meetings were chaperoned. They say they don't believe in birth control, so they may have a large family too.

Don't be so sure that these kids have never been in trouble with the law. Crimes committed by those under 18 never have their names published in the newspapers and the identity of their victims is never revealed if they are under 18. Child Protective Services do not discuss cases. Google will point to some stories about the kids being in trouble with the law with some serious stuff. Of course, as with any news articles from *any source* use your own good judgment on the validity.

Here is a link that might be useful: Josh and Anna's Future

Good grief, dillydally! Are you now insinuating the Duggar children have been in trouble with the law? There's no reason to think such a thing, much less make such an allegation.

Josh is not 20; he was born in 1984, is 24 years old. Don't know why the newspaper reporter didn't get his/her facts straight. Many guys in their mid-'20s get married every year.

I honestly see no reason for so much hostility toward this couple or their families. Why can't we just respect their choices and wish them well? Is anything they're doing hurting any of us?

"Josh and Anna have a house in Fayetteville where they will reside, once married."

Here is a link that might be useful: Link

The Duggars married in 1984. Josh was born in 1988, is 20 years old. I apologize for the misinformation.

When I met my husband, he was 19. He turned 20 that year and we married the next year. Though he was young in age, he was much more mature than any other guy I knew of his age, and many I knew who were older. He and I are still married after more than 35 years of marriage and have been very happy together.

Josh comes from a close-knit family who seem to genuinely love and appreciate each other, and that is one of the prognosticators of a happy marriage. Again, I would hope we could all respect their choice and wish them well. I see no need in the hostility which has been expressed here. JMHO

Mara, he is not 24y/o. He is 20y/o. The reporter got it right. The Discovery.com website that contracted to film them, has their birth dates listed:

http://health.discovery.com/convergence/duggars/duggarkids_03.html

The Duggar family's own website lists Josh's birth as being four years after their 1984 marriage. I would consider that a good source.

http://www.duggarfamily.com/aboutus.html

I am not making the allegations, others are. I have read some news websites and discussion boards where it is reported that there has been trouble with the law. I am not repeating any details of it here, as the news source may not be valid. Google.

Here is a link that might be useful: Discovery Chammel Duggar Ages

dillydally, I had already posted a correction - did you miss it? Here it is again:

The Duggars married in 1984. Josh was born in 1988, is 20 years old. I apologize for the misinformation.

When I met my husband, he was 19. He turned 20 that year and we married the next year. Though he was young in age, he was much more mature than any other guy I knew of his age, and many I knew who were older. He and I are still married after more than 35 years of marriage and have been very happy together.

Josh comes from a close-knit family who seem to genuinely love and appreciate each other, and that is one of the prognosticators of a happy marriage. Again, I would hope we could all respect their choice and wish them well. I see no need for the hostility which has been expressed here. JMHO

You post was at 18:41 and mine at 18:44, three minutes later. I must have been typing and searching for a valid web address for the two links while yours went up. Sometimes that happens in threads. It was not intentional. Coincidence, that's all.

No problem, dillydally; that's understandable. Did you see the link about Josh and Anna having a home of their own?

caroline, I didn't see another caroline in this thread. Sorry for the mix-up.

The biggest problem with this family is the parents are not doing ANY of the child-raising. The older kids are doing it all while the parents just keep popping them out. Their view comes from a man named Bill Gothard, who, btw, has no children. I have long-time friends who grew up in similar family styles and let me assure EVERYONE: they do not grow up to be happy adults. They marry the first person who comes along to get out the hell hole.

It's no problem Mara, there's "Caroline1947" who had posted on this thread, and then me, the plain "Caroline." I've tried to change my user name, but I can't do that without changing the "date registered," which already had to do once. I actually first registered in 1999 although I think my page reflects 2001.

I just know iVillage will fix all this, and give us an edit button, and allow capital letters in our user names...eventually! LOL

Are you saying you wished you had been raised that way? Having to put in a written request to spend quality time with a parent? Suddenly realizing you are at the age where you mother won't hold you anymore because you aren't a cute little baby?

Ok, ok. So everyone can agree on how rude I am. Fine. But no one can address what I clearly stated was "the biggest problem"? The parents aren't raising the kids. (And btw, I don't think that statement is rude, it's simply my opinion).

"I have read some news websites and discussion boards where it is reported that there has been trouble with the law." Kinda like believing everything the National Enquirer publishes,huh,or the game of Gossip??
For pity sakes people,let this family live their lives as they wish!

I'm sorry. I didn't realize this was the Duggar's-can-do-np-wrong, pro child labor, pro cult blog.

I happen to watch the show last night on the WE network as I was flipping channels. I had seen it a couple of years ago as well. It was sort of a highlights show where baby #15 was on the way and also recapped their trip out west, plus the home build.

They seem like a very well behaved and respectful bunch of kids, so obviously the parents are doing some things right. What kind of bothers me is the fact that they all must dress alike, wear the same hairdo, play the same instruments, etc... Sadly, there is no individuality that I can see, but maybe they are fine with that, who knows.

If they were to push for their own identity, would it be encouraged or discouraged by mom and dad. I am thankful I grew up in an environment where I was free to be me.

I could care less how other people decide to raise their family...I would MUCH rather see this type of family than some that I personally know without much parental influence at all!!

As far as the kids having to write a request to have time with their parents......There are MANY, MANY parents that feel their work life is more important than their children and when they are around the kids, there are more important things that they need to do.

I think people feel they can talk about this family because they have made themselves available to be talked about with TV show. There are many families that have a much worse home life than the Duggars...in my opinion!

I actually admire the Duggars myself. Would I want that kind of lifestyle for myself? No! (well, at least not that many children, whew ) but, why bash them for living life the way they want? I see no reason for them to live life the way I live mine. Live and let live. As long as it is not hurting anyone or illegal let them live peacefully. I think the children are mature for their age, personally, my opinion of course. Their attitude and behavior are a heap better than some of the spoiled demanding behaviors of the more "privileged" (tongue in cheek) children of today. The Duggar children are more respectful and have a love of family and their God. I cannot see how that is so wrong. JMHO. Thanks.

I have to add my two cents ...The life style of the Duggars is not my cup of tea...but I can't fault them for what they have done...Lots of folks would not mind the bucks they have been given to allow others to see their life style. I don't even see anything wrong with that..

I have lots of teenagers around me and truthfully, I wish some of mine and some of those I see ever day were more like the duggars in their style of drss. It would be nice to see 14 year old and 16 and 17 year olds that did not look like a hooker. I also would say that in watching all of the Duggars, not once did I hear any foul language, now wasn't that a breath of fresh air..go find any of the other shows about teen agers on tv and every other word is filth and they look like they haven't had a bath and their boobs, butts and buttons are hanging out all over the place.

The raising of the kids has happened in every large family since time began. Ask any kid who grew up in a large family and most of them were expected to look after siblings..It was a way of life...and 18 kids...what are they thinking, she must be nuts but you know what, it hasn't been that many years ago that lots and lots of families had 8,10, 12 and 13 kids. It hasn't been that long ago that some of the girls/boys from large families, got married as early as 15 and raised big families of their own...It was a way of life and not that many years ago.

Must be the proud parents that know that their two kids are going to the alter as virgins. They will be sharing that part of love with each other and we all know that it doesn't happen that often any more but they will be able to look each other in the eye and know that the other one hasn't slept with half the girls/boys in town....Pretty cool...It might not be something that any one else would want for their children but this is their belief and I respect them for the way they have raised their children..and until I see them shown in another light and one of disrespecting themselves, their friends and their audience, I will just believe that they are raising some pretty neat kids. The home raised kids that I have met are all very smart kids and very well rounded...

Not my style or the way I was raised or the way I lived my life but I see no reason to bad mouth them for their choices.

"Suddenly realizing you are at the age where you mother won't hold you anymore because you aren't a cute little baby?"
Where did you get that information? I think she would have to be holding the little ones until they are weaned at least because she nurses them.With that many kids in the house why wouldn't they be helping to take care of the younger ones? I had only 4 kids and the older ones helped me!That is something I see in all large families.Sorry but I just don't see much about this family that is "disturbing".They lead very busy lives and "making an appointment" to talk to your parents seems like a good idea to me.Most families now days don't even have the time to MAKE the appointment!LOL
"I'm sorry. I didn't realize this was the Duggar's-can-do-np-wrong, pro child labor, pro cult blog." I don't think it is!
They dress the same because they buy their clothes at thrift stores,nothing wrong with that,and because it is easier to identify the kids in a crowd.I use to dress my 4 alike,made most of their clothes so I guess that makes me some kind of strange person? LOL As for the same hair styles,maybe the girls all like long hair and the boys like the clean cut look?? Or maybe the girls/women identify with the scripture that pertains to a womans hair being her "glory".whatever the reason,it's their business!
I totally agree with Ruthie.It is refreshing not to hear all the profanity that comes out of most teenagers mouths now days or to see the scanty dress on girls and the sloppy attire that the boys all wear now.Just last night we were shopping in Wal-mart and followed 6 teen age boys for several minutes.You would not believe the stuff coming out of their mouths.then when we were loading our groceries in the car 4 of these same boys were beating one of the others,had him on the ground hitting and kicking him,sll 4 at the same time.they took off running,right past us,hopped in a pickup and took off.the one being beaten and the one with im jumped in another car and left.I don't know how badly the one was hurt,but we think it was a boy that was in the store with them who was mentally handicapped.He had downs.It all happened so fast and they were gone before we could even call for help.Anyway,it is refreshing to know that there are still some families like the Duggers that don't conform to the rest of the world!
That's all I have to say about this subject!

I think it is great to live in a country that people can live the way they want to, discuss who they want to, with so much freedom, and "we" can voice our opinions our way without worrying about going to jail or getting shot.
Just a thought.

I NEVER said anyone was strange for dressing their children the same. I too sew my own clothing and when my boys were little I dressed them alike, but as they got older it became their choice. As I said in my post, the Duggar children seen to be fine with it. I was not bashing them for their choice, all I said was what if one decided challenge their norm.

I don't know why people keep saying that they all dress alike. I think the Duggars have been looking a lot more stylish. If you go to their website and look at the family picture on the front page, no two girls are dressed alike and although more than one boy might be wearing a polo top, they're all different.

When television first started profiling them, their clothing styles were limited and much frumpier than what I've seen from them lately. They didn't have as many resources or as much space to store clothing back then.

Now, their clothing isn't as uniform, although they do probably all still wear the same bright color when travelling as a group, to make it easier to find each other I guess. Just because they're all taught the same values doesn't mean there isn't any individuality.