what a precious pup

I'm sure you'll get lots of helpful advice.
Your story reminds me of what my aunt told me a couple weeks ago. She adopted a 2 yr old Shih Tzu from a breeder. She had never slept on anything soft or felt grass. She did know how to walk on a leash though.

Anyway, she had her outside on the grass and Peewee wouldn't go pee, but soon as she put the leash on, she did. She associated peeing with the leash. She's better now.

I have no suggestions, but Jack is awfully cute. the only thing I did with Georgy when potty training her was to say "no, no" when she went inside and put her outside. I also hung some bells on the back door and taught her to ring them when she need to go out. Of course, in the beginning, she rang them just because she wanted to go out and play. But it didn't take very long for her to connect the bells and peeing and pooping outside. Good luck with Jack.

We used a dog crate when we were training our dogs. I found it really helped especially when you're trying to make dinner or the phone rings. You just can't keep an eye on a dog 100% of the time.

How are you using the crate? Is he soiling it also? The crate must be only large enough for him to turn around in,lie down and stand in comfortably.

This will take a little time but will be well worth it. When he is not in his crate he must be attached to you. No free roaming at all unless your eyes are on him 100% of the time. The rest of the time put a lead on him and attach it to yourself.Where you go he goes. The minute he starts to squat or sniff around you grab him up and rush outside.

I don't care if he is older. You must treat him just like you would a new puppy at first. He eats, you take him out, he plays you take him out, he wakes up from a nap you take him out. Do not let these outing be for exploring ,play or fun. he should be on a lead and you stand there saying go potty or whatever in the area you wish him to use.

Never ever use the crate as punishment. Just matter of factly put him in there whenever you can't supervise.

When he goes outside give a lot of praise. No treats are necessary just praise.

If he goes inside just pick him up and crate him. Never let him see you clean up the mess.

No dog is too old to be crate trained. Some will learn to love their crates and some will merely tolerate them. If your dog ever gets ill or has to have a recovery that requires him to be inactive that crate training will save both your and the dog's sanity.

One more thing that sometimes helps is to have a play date with a dog that is perfectly house trained. Just like children dogs pick up things from one another.

Good luck. Don't give up. He's adorable.

He's not to old to crate train..and the other thing is to keep him on a short lead when he is the house out of the crate..and keep him at your or hubbies side all the time.

You just don't give him the opportunity to be "loose" out of your site.

A very good book for training non puppies called How to teach and Old dog new tricks.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Book-I borrowed a copy from my local library.

Last year I had a Bichon puppy that I could not get house trained. When I he was a year old, I gave him to friends who have two Corgies. According to them, he goes out when the Corgies do and has very few accidents in the house. He was crated trained from day one with me. I have no advice to give you. I even paid a professional trainer to work with me. I know how frustrated you are and I hope things work out for you.

We just adopted 2 poodle mixes from a shelter that were 3 years old and were supposed to be house trained. They weren't. You have my sympathy. Ours are slowly getting the message....we have the pee under control but the poo still needs work. My only suggestion would be to bring some other dogs into your back yard to lay down some scent and then maybe yours will get the message to mark territory too.

Unfortunately you will need to get some heavy duty enzyme type of cleaner available in the pet stores and clean all your carpets and floors. I'm in the same boat.....it is hard work, but hopefully in the end we will have good dogs.

Ours have crates that we use if we go out and at night. We may stop crating them once we can trust them, but they love their crates right now.

Jack is adorable.

I am lucky in the two dogs I rescued. One was 7 months old two years ago and the other is about three and here a month. Neither ever had an accident in the house. First dog came with a wire crate which I had never used on my previous two dogs. I found I love it and the dog does too. This dog was never in a crate but I got an identical wire one and put it beside the other dog's. At night when I say CRATE both dogs run into their respective crates. The new dog learned by example and now loves it since he can burrow in the blanket. Dogs rarely soil their crates but it can't be too large or they may.

Shih Tzus are a very beligerant breed, well, bullheaded is more appropriate. They can be great dogs but don't take kindly to training especially when they get older. This little guy sounds like he wasn't trained right from the start and was the alpha in the house. He's not going to let up on his position easily. Most likely he started it as a punishment to his previous owners. Dogs, like kids need discipline and training from the start or it's tougher to do later.

But I agree that you needn't give up on him. And I understand your frustration! I had a Lhasa Apso who tried taking over when he came here. We butted heads for a while but finally after a month or two we agreed on our positions and he messed inside only once or twice. Although this little guy was known to take down German Shepherds in his day, I have to give credit to my sister's cat for putting him in his place! He gained a whole new respect for a lot of things after he was left alone with sis's cat for a few hours! (Long story short: he tried to take her toy and that went over like the Hindenburg) He learned that not every house and toy was "his" house and toy! It was funny. He was 10 years old when I got him and after that I had 2+ fabulous years with my little companion. Still miss that little f@rt. Couldn't believe how attached we became. But I digress.

Next door they got a Shih Tzu while I had my Lhasa Apso. Even more bullheaded than my Lhasa Apso. They couldn't adapt to him and went through a similar situation to yours so they got rid of him.

I agree to crate him, but as said, crate him properly. I assume you've checked that he doesn't have a medical condition? I doubt it's medical but you never know.

Lastly, yes he's cute, but don't let that stop you. Too many parents and grandparents let the cute kid figuratively "get away with murder" until one day they literally try to get away with murder. You're the parent and you need to be the alpha dog in the house.

Not much help, but I give my encouragement. Hope things work out soon. I know your frustration all too well! Good luck!

I just tried something and it worked! Co-incidence? Usually I let my boys outside and sit on the lawn chairs for awhile. Today one did his business both ways but the other didn't. So I started to walk around on the grass myself and sure enough, the other followed me and went both ways. Usually this dog quickly pees and runs back to sit on my lap and I wasn't letting him do that this morning.

I wonder if this will work for Jack. I know I will be trying it again for my dog Shadow. Of course both dogs got lots of praise.

I see in the pet stores packages of diapers for dogs.....all in a small size. Are smaller dogs really harder to house train? Even in the Canadian winter, I will be expecting mine to do their business outside. Am I expecting too much? I've never had small dogs before, I've always had a large dog.

Thank you everyone for your advice and encouragement. We are going to hang tough with the crate training. So far he has not peed in there, and we don't think he has pooped either, but the problem is that if we don't catch him doing it (anywhere) he eats it. (Yes I know... that is gross) Oliver did that too when he vas very young. He outgrew that habit by the time he was Jacks age. We got him when he was 6 weeks old, so his baby years were spent in a good, safe environment. Poor Jack wasn't so lucky. He was removed from an overcrowded, mismanaged back yard breeder situation and taken to a shelter where we found him a few weeks later. I don't think he was ever in a situation where he felt like an alpha dog. He was also very afraid. Especially of our hands. Every time we reached out our hands to him to pet him or reach for him he would flinch and cower. He still does with people he is not used to. When I think about what that sweet little guy must have gone trough......
I am going to get the book you mentioned Terri, and we are going to make sure that we always have our eye on him when he is out of the crate. He looks so pathetic sitting in there, but doesn't fight going in. He does bark a lot though when he is in there. I hope we succeed in this, because giving him up is not an option we will even consider at this point.

Elisabeth

He could be eating his poop for several reasons:

1. Lacking something in his diet, or not properly digesting the food he is eating.

2. Boredom.

3. He knows the sight of the poop upsets you, so tries to "get rid of it" before you see it.

4. He just likes it (ew!) lol!

I agree with most of the above. Give him lots of exercise, timed feedings rather than a bowl of kibble to nibbl on at will (if you control the food you control the poop), keep him attached to you so he can't sneak off to poop.

If he is picking the same place to poop all the time, try putting an extra food dish with some of his food in it (not extra food, put most in his main dish and some in this dish). If he changes to another spot add ANOTHER dish and so on. Also spend as much time with him as you can in the area he is going. You want to show him that this is NOT a remote area and is really part of the living space.

Good luck with that cutie!

I looked up the book you mentioned, "How to Teach Your Old Dog New Tricks" and found it for $4.00 incl. postage, so sent for it. Our rehomed dachshund is about 6 or 7 years old and must have been paper trained, so hopefully we will get some ideas for help from the book.

marygailv, where did you find that book?

Elisabeth

oh Good Marygail! And Elisabeth I hope you find a copy too.

I was very impressed with the book, and it's an enjoyable read and makes you go..."hmmmm, I get it" a lot.

The concept behind it is that you don't disrupt the dogs natural "smarts" or learning pattern..you divert it..You take the way they are and begin to bring them around to what you want.

There are also great tips on working with certain dog personalities to "break" bad habits and create/reward good ones.

My dog was not socialized properly. And she's a working breed that didn't have a job. So she became a fear aggressive. Reading that book helped me to create safety and comfort for her "natural" tendencies.

Here's the latest thing I've been working with her on..The door bell...if the doorbell goes off, so does she..
So we ring it randomly when we are out side..She's told "no" firmly as soon as she starts once...about the 3rd time in the day she will not bark...and she gets tons of praise..we did that for two days..and she stopped barking...however that only works when she's in the house..LOL Next step...work on her when she's outside and hears it.

Might I make a suggestion? In addition to the crate training, you might try a belly band.
They're wonderful for male dogs who insist on peeing in the house.

Here is a link that might be useful: No-Pee bands

Here is another link - to a video that shows how they work.

As I recall the belly bands are available locally at PetSmart or PetCo. Or there are places on line.

Here is a link that might be useful: Video

There is a copy of this book on ebay right now. Unfortunately the postage is too much for me to buy it because I am International but have a look there for it Elizabeth if you are interested.

As I said I have no problems along this line with my rescued dogs. First dog, Ziggy, was only 7 months and was given up because of owners health issues. He even came knowing tricks and potty trained. Second dog, Wally a Dachshund came potty trained and as sweet as they come. However he has issues with other dogs. He might have been from a backyard breeder in WVA. He was not neutered at three years and was turned in to a kill shelter because "there were too many dogs". So this dog is aggressive to other larger dogs we meet on our walks. He lunges at them and has nipped dogs four times his size. He's sweet to people, kids, cats, and his new brother. He has issues as many rescued dogs do since we don't have their history. Time will help us all with special training for the dogs.