What kind anf type of soap are you using? HE or Regular detergent? How are you washing your clothes? Cycles used? temps used? are you using the quick wash or another one.Do you seperate your clothes according to color and fabric weight, or just toss all coloreds together, and all whites together?

One TBS for a full drum in a 20 lb machine is way too little.
Fronloaders use less detergent .... but not that less.
It's not rocket science .... but a bit of good ole middle course is however handy :)

Go figure that one TBS of a 2x powder is not enough even in a tiny 24" euro frontloader.

Fabrics get stiffer and stiffer if you'll keep on using less detergent than required. The stiffness is unremoved soil due to too low temp and not enough detergent

Also stay away from "cold washing always and no matter"
Once a week run a real *hot* cycle (140F at least) with your whites and you won't need to use the clean tub cycle

Lorimckay, try the Ecos detergent. It's all natural and it smell quite nice. The amount required is also little. I got mine at Costco. I believe Sams sells them too, but of a different scent from Costco. Costco's is Magnolia and Lily scent.

I used Tide He Powder + Snuggle He Fabric Softener (I just started using Fabric Softener because the clothes are coming out hard & scratchy - I never used it with my top loader)

I used the scoop in the box and filled it to the first line for small loads. Used the small load mark on the softener also.

This load is small throw blankets the kids use for naps at school. The microfiber type. They were thrown in loosely and not packed into the machine.

My husband says we have soft water.

Cycle Used was Bulky/Bedding
hot/cold
med spin
heavy soil

Ran an additional rinse & spin cycle after it was over because they felt hard like the soap didn't wash out and they didn't smell right. There is no fresh clean smell to them.

Also ran a load of towels and they are stiff and scratchy.

Side note... I'm not eco-crazy, chemical, preservative or fragrance free.

I'm not trying to save on soap, water or electricity. I only switched to a front loader so I could wash bigger items and more clothes.

I'm easy all I want is clean soft clothes that smell clean when they come out of the dryer - period!

My requirements are simple... to keep up with 3 growing boys moving into the stinky period of growth and a little girl who still wets the bed and not want to gag when I put a towel to my face.

I never implied that you were eco crazy. But the Ecos detergent made with natural materials should help with the mystery rashes. Since you have the same model as I do, Kenmore Elite (40512), did you use the Smart Sense feature? It detects water hardness (I guess softness too) and adjust cleaning time to get the clothes as clean as possible.

I tried a FL for a year and went back to top load.

Bottom line: if I used enough detergent to properly clean it didn't rinse out. I had to run another entire cycle for it to rinse to my standards.

With my top-loader I can use all the detergent I need and two deep rinses always rinses it all out. And it's done in half the time.

No Sooby.. I'm sorry I guess that came across wrong! :)

So many people are allergic to everything under the sun and have specific requirements for soap or are trying to eliminate all chemicals... I just wanted to explain I don't have those requirements.

Right now I'll be happy if I can just eliminate the smell of my sons gym socks.. :)

No apologies needed. We are all just trying to help each other. Have you tried the Smart Sense feature on your wash?

No not yet. Have you tried it?

Yep, although I have not tried washing without it. It seems to wash pretty good, removing most detergent smell from clean clothes. I guess that's the point. It's designed to remove as much detergent as possible by detecting water hardness and the amount of detergent left and then add more rinse time if necessary.

Give it a shot. What have you got to lose?

20 lb FL takes whole lot more detergent than spoonfull.
I use 2/3 of the kitchen measuring cup for almost full load. And hottest water possible.
For soft water I'd try 1/2 a cup for few loads.
Extra rinses are necessary, specially for full loads. Many times I use extra quick wash cycle instead of double extra rinse.
Already smelly laundry takes several washings in hot/sanitary w/extra detergent to get rid of the smell.
If you use bleach and additives, rinse more too! Dirtier laundry-more detergent you need and more water to rinse.
Prewash on every load helps a lot too. At least this works for us.

Right now I'll be happy if I can just eliminate the smell of my sons gym socks.. :)

To solve this problem, make sure he wears his socks only one time.
Wearing them two or three days consecutively will wear your nose out.
Also a week worth of Lotrimin twice a day for a week will help.
Good luck and keep a clothes pin nearby!

I'd like to add.
On my extra rinse I always use warm water and add splash of vinegar in. It seems to help.
I don't care either how much water or energy I use. Clean laundry is more important to me. But last time I checked, our carbon footprint is less than half of the average so I guess I'm not that bad.
And the newest thing, I use bounce dryer bar and I love it! Not much scent left in but our laundry smells like a new fabric.

I'm at my wits end with this. I'm just too stupid to use these machines.

Everything is hard and scratchy.. my arms are raw after folding a load of towels that comes out of this machine. The kids are complaining about being itchy again.

I've tried more soap / less soap / different soap / he soap / non he soap .. fabric softner / vinegar

I'm sick of rewashing and rewashing the same load. I have laundry everywhere... my house stinks and now I have kids with a stomach flu. I'll never get that stench out in this machine.

You guys say your clothes don't have any smell when they come out - not even detergent smell. After they sit around in a drawer are you having trouble with smells surfacing?

I pulled out a sweat shirt from my daughters drawer last week and it stunk. So now I have to rewash everything in my house! I'm not happy!

"You guys say your clothes don't have any smell when they come out - not even detergent smell. After they sit around in a drawer are you having trouble with smells surfacing"

Depending on the detergent you use, you get very little detergent smell left over, TIde and Gain leave some scent behind. When I pull my clothes out of the drawers after a whilem they just smell clean and are soft. Never use a non HE soap in the washer, it will not rinse out properly. What detergents have you been trying?

I don't know how much help this will be but with the itching, I know that Tide has a lot of enzymes in their formulary and that might contribute to the itching portion of your problem. I would switch laundry detergents to something not filled with enzymes to something like ecos, or even All or I am sure you can do a web search to find out which detergents don't have enzymes and see if that helps. (BTW: I notice All detergent happens to be on sale at all the stores lately so they must be running a promotion of some sort, so this is a good time to pick some up to try out) I would use vinegar in the rinse cycle to help remove odors and detergent residue. Just add some more detergent to your loads because 1 Tablespoon isn't enough for such a big load of clothes. I have a feeling that it is a combination of things causing this issue.

I'm wondering about wash temperatures on these new machines. Are you able to pause the machine and open the door, near the end of the wash cycle? If so, you could measure or feel how hot the water is, for a warm and a hot wash. They might be cooler than you expect.

If your wastewater goes through a treatment plant that removes phosphates, or if the water is discharged where phosphates don't matter, you might try STPP. It makes my towels noticeably softer.

"Cycle Used was Bulky/Bedding
hot/cold
med spin
heavy soil"

Do you know what the actual wash temperature is? In my Duet 9400, for example, if I set "hot" the actual wash temp is 100-105. If I want more than that, I have to set one of the cycles that uses the on-board heater. Does your machine have an on-board heater? What is the temperature of your cold tap-water right now? What is the temperature of your fully-hot tap-water?

From your description, I'm thinking somewhere among water-temp, water quality, and detergent type and amount you've got a bad balance.

Suggest this: Throw in four or five already-washed/clean towels. Set the cycle you described. In the middle of the wash cycle, take a look at whether or not you see evidence of soapy water in there (residue = not-rinsed out from previous loads = too much detergent and/or too cold water). Open the door and measure the temperature with an instant-read thermometer. At the hardware store, get an easy/cheap water-hardness test kit and verify your water quality. I'll bet you'll find unexpected clues in each step.

My machine is essentially exactly like yours. It washes well and rinses thoroughly and has from the beginning five years ago. I don't know what's going on with your installation but have no doubt something is being missed. I think I'd enjoy being there and trying to figure it out.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time! Front loaders are more finicky than top loaders, I think, and you just haven't found the magical combination for your machine yet.

I will say, that I find it much more difficult to eliminate odors with a front loader, particularly in synthetic fabrics. I have found that for organic/body type odors, it helps to treat/soak them with some kind of odor-remover. I use Bac-out Stain and Odor remover, which works well for me. You might try searching for tips on deodorizing cloth diapers - those folks know about odor removal.

I'm not sure what is causing your towel odors, but I will say that mine never smelled worse than when I was (unknowingly) overdosing them with Tide Liquid in my old machine. The leftover detergent plus whatever was sticking to or living on it was revolting. Once I got the extra detergent out, and washed them in hot water a few times, they were much better. Is there a way for you to check your rinse water to see if the water is clear? That would let you know whether you need to increase or decrease your detergent. Alternatively you could do as asolo suggests, and wash 'clean' towels without any soap and see if any suds show up during the cycle.

Other things that you are probably already doing, but just in case - choose every option you can to extend the cleaning time. I cannot get anything that's visibly dirty clean in my machine unless I select pre-wash, extended cycle, etc. Also, wash everything on the absolute hottest water the fabric can stand. And, higher spin speeds extract more soap from the laundry - so choose the highest speed the fabric can take for better rinsing. Last - you probably want to run an empty cycle at the hottest temperature you can with some chlorine or oxygen bleach to clean out the machine, just in case some of the odors are coming from the machine itself.

Best of luck! I hope you are able to find a solution.

You may also want to add 1/4 cup of Borax to your washload. It is very good at removing odors from the clothes.
Also make sure your clothes are completely dry before putting them away.
You may also want to go to your local Miele dealer and purchase some Persil detergent. It is really great and had great rinsability.

I'm so sorry you are dealing with all these troubles, and that you are not well on top of it all. ((hugs))

It sounds like a not-enough-water problem to me. I wash cloth diapers and stinky gym and work clothes. IMHO, these types of heavily soiled loads need to be washed in a visible water line amount of water to get the pee/sweat/stink out. Which so far is not delivered in any FL I have tried (only 3 -- GE, Maytag Neptune, and Miele). My workaround is to use the delicates cycle either as the actual wash cycle or as a pre-wash. And at least warm water (not tap-warm -- heated warm which is around 104F).

I have to get my kids in bed right now, but will come back later and tell you the rest of what's in my head. Hope something will work for you.

(Above post, continued)

I also have very soft water. I don't use a lot of detergent -- 2-3 tbsp of Tide HE powder or Ecover. I struggled with the sweaty gym clothes when I got our first FL. They would come out still stinky in the arm pits. I tried more detergent, less detergent, different detergent, hotter water, etc. All the same stuff you tried. Nothing worked until I used a higher water level cycle (delicates on my GE). Oh and it had to be warm water (104F) or higher -- cold didn't work for some reason.

I also had the stiff towels problem. Luckily it was just the towels and not our clothes. I never did solve it and it was starting to drive me nuts. It seemed to develop over time, as new towels stayed soft for a while after purchase. I started trying more water, vinegar in the rinse, fabric softener etc but wasn't making much difference. Then I moved and got a new washer (a Miele -- the last of the 220v ones which retained some of its European features). Same water supply (we moved 5 min away in the same town), same detergent, same towels. It could be my imagination, but I think my towels got softer after a few months with the Miele. I don't know what to make of that -- except that in reading your post, I kept wondering if you had tried 4 different brands/models of FLs or if you were getting them switched out on warranty and therefore kept getting the same model back? Because... (segue to my last anecdote)

Because, we went on vacation and had to use a Maytag Neptune for a week. And it was there that I realized, as not-entirely-satisfied as I was with my GE, there were infinitely worse FLs out there. It was the commercial version of the Neptune in a laundromat. Most of them smelled like old socks. I didn't think anything of it and washed in a stinky Neptune. That load came out smelling like old socks. Afterwards I learned that Neptunes were notorious for having standing water left in the machine that could cause the smell. The time after that I got smart and washed in a non-stinky one. Better, but still did nothing for stains. I was washing diapers in them so I was trying every trick I knew. My conclusion after that week was that there are some truly awful FLs out there.

OK back to the stomach flu you are dealing with currently. Do a pre-wash on delicates or something with a higher water level to get the vomit/poop/whatever you're dealing with out. Then wash on the hottest temp the fabric will tolerate (hope you have an internal heater) with a goodly amount of Tide HE powder (maybe use more than usual). Run another delicates cycle as a super rinse afterwards. I got rotavirus smell out of my cloth diapers this way. On one particular diaper that got it really bad, it took multiple subsequent washes, but it did finally come out. So there is hope.

Sorry for such a long and rambling post. To sum up, for the stink/general clean, I would try:
1) higher water level cycle
2) warm (104F) or higher
3) 2-3 tbsp powder detergent (since you have soft water)

For the scratchy towels, I guess I can't really suggest that you trade your new washer in for yet another one... so I will suggest a different detergent. Ecover powder. Whole Foods carries it if you have one of those near you. This detergent does crap for stains (I have to pre-treat everything if I want a stain out) but on the flip side, it doesn't fade colors like Tide HE does. It does not rinse out as well as Tide, but I think it is that very quality which makes my loads come out soft and nice. It doesn't sound like you are dealing with especially sensitive skin in the family, so I think it would be OK to give it a try. It does have enzymes (I am a strong believer in enzymes because my diapers never stank so much as each of the times I deviated from Tide and tried a "more natural" detergent with no additives, no enzymes, etc.).

I think a lot of the problems that she may be having are washer related. If it is not Miele, Bosch or Asko it is probably the washer. Most of the US brands are simply junk.

There are three things you need to get clothes clean:
1. Water
2. Detergent/Soap
3. Heat

Most US brands are chasing the energystar tax rebates and not wash quality. This means they use to little water and don't heat the water properly. Virtually none of the US brands have any way of changing the amount of water used or a custom cycle to force the onboard heater to be used.

Miele is the only brand I know of that an end user can easily get into the service menu and turn on the higher water usage (allergy option) along with a custom menu to set the heated water temp.

Bosch (We have the AXXIS model) at least lets you manually turn on the heater by selecting a heated cycle. You sort of have to guess what the temps are, but once you have it figured out you can get pretty good results.

I am sorry but, 104F (40C) is NOT hot enough to release body odors from clothing. For Miele you would need to use a minimum of 122F (50C) on colors or hotter for whites.

We use only regular Tide (not the HE stuff) and NEVER have a problem with smells. I am also curious is you have had 4 of the same model?