Is there any view that you are wanting from either the kitchen or dining room? That might help make up your mind.

Take a deep breath. The ride is just beginning, but eventually you will be happily ensconced and able to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Flipping the spaces is a great idea. I'd much prefer the kitchen in the rear, and don't see how the change poses an aesthetic problem with the front elevation. If your concern was the interior space in front, I think you have created better flow for entertaining. While I love open flow floorplans, I really like having a more private dining space for dinner parties which is now provided by the switch.

Others may have better ideas on maximizing the kitchen, but your design looks fine. If code in your area permits and the covered porch protects from snow banks, I'd consider an out swing door in the great room in order to free up floor space. Best wishes!

I personally prefer the kitchen in the back. I would rather walk in and see a dining space than a kitchen right off the bat. I'm not sure about the layout and will wait to see what others have to say about that. If you're having more than one person at a time in the kitchen it feels closed in and it feels like you might be bumping into one another. Again, that's based on how you cook and IF you have help.

As for a MW, think about using a drawer MW under the counter. You push a button and the drawer comes out and you load your food from the top down. I LOVE mine.

I also don't understand what flipping the kitchen and dining room does to make the front look odd. It looks better to me. Is there a view you wanted on one side? Would having the dining room by the back porch let in a lot of light from that side window? It's equally good access to the garage for carrying groceries, and it looks like you get a bit more storage with the kitchen in the back, which is always good.

As to the kitchen itself, I'm not a big fan of one station on each side of a U, though I'm not sure if you have enough room to change that with the angled peninsula, and the kitchen is small enough that it should work just fine. It looks like there's a counter between the fridge and the pantry in the new plan. That cuts up your workspace too much. All the talls are better together on the end, with the counter continuous.

With the new plan you get a hood right?

Oh my, my, my ... you guys are wonderful. I'm starting to breathe a little now ... thanks for your reassurance.

Abundantblessings - I appreciate the idea re: the door to the porch; not many snow banks in Southern Indiana! I'll check it out to see if we can do it ... that door did keep getting in my way as I tried to figure out where to put the furniture! And cpartist - I'll go to the appliance place and find one of the MWs and try it out. That might really be a great solution if it's affordable. As far as more than one in the kitchen - yes, occasionally I can get my husband to chop stuff while I cook; and although I tend to have most everything well prepped before guests arrive, I'm hopeful I'll be able to plan the storage and work space in some way to allow for another cook to participate once in a while. That would be nice. Phoggie - no particular benefit to one view over the other ... although the back of the house will catch the morning sun.

Again.. thanks for the reassurance, folks. Hopefully I'll get some helpful ideas for layout, too. I can see where storage for dishes will need to be well-planned given there's no way to stand on the one side of the DW. I'm also wondering about where to put a pull-out trash can so that it's convenient to both the sink and a chopping/cutting space. There's really no room on the sink wall for more than the sink, DW, and a lazy susan on each end.

Thank you so very much -- once again.

In your kitchen-in-the-back version, I think I would prefer the sink moved further to the left and the dishwasher moved to the right-hand side. This would open up that tight corner just a bit.

I agree with pllog about moving the refrig down and bumping it up next to the pantry so you have a nice long countertop run.

My microwave is going to be in a base cabinet. It will be a standard sit-on-the-counter style as I did not want to spend the extra for a built-in. This could potentially go in the base cab to the right of the refrig.

So walking clockwise, it would be: Pantry, Refrig, base cab with micro and drawers beneath, counter prep space over drawers, corner mgmt unit, sink, dishwasher, corner mgmt unit, cooktop with a REAL venthood, peninsula.

Side thoughts: Could the doorway from the Dining Room to the bedroom hallway be shifted down a little bit to give you more kitchen counter space?

The space behind the pantry....is this a closet? What will it be used for? Could the space be dedicated to pantry usage? It might need to be a wrap-around pantry.

Would you consider putting a french door with a fixed panel from the great room to the back porch instead of a door and a window? Two-thirds would be french door, one-third would be fixed panel. This would give you a lovely, wide open expanse that is not broken up with the column.

If I didn't make myself clear, I can try and illustrate with drawings.

And that is my three-cents worth.

Congrats on your new home-to-be.

Pepper

I agree that the kitchen in the back seems best, and I don't see any change needed for the front of the house either lezli.

Would you ever be eating on your back covered porch? If so, you might want to consider having the peninsula come from the left side so you don't have such a walk around the peninsula to the porch. If you did that, you'd have to move the pantry (cabinet?), but you could also get a little more room on the right stove/counter run.

Given where your dining room is, it's a little "six of one/half dozen of the other", but another advantage would be the proximity of the peninsula to the dining room for snacks/buffet when you entertain. Just a thought anyhow.

I am retired, too, and have lived in our home for nearly 11 years. Our kitchen is in the middle of the house, but shape- and size-wise it is very similar to yours. My 9x11 kitchen works wonderfully, even if a few compromises come to mind. My peninsula is canted the same as yours and that's where my sink sits. It allows me to look out of the nook window (5 ft away on an outside wall) to see my flower garden. However, that puts the dishwasher on the long wall right where all prep work is done. There is no room to change it, but the whole thing works quite well. I've had 4 people in this kitchen working on a dinner and there was plenty of room!

Good luck with your build!

Lezli--I feel for you! The planning is WAAAAAAYYY more stressful than I thought it would be. I've been working on my kitchen plan for the whole of 2010! At the last minute, we decided to flip our rooms around in the main living area and put the kitchen at the back of the house so I know your pain. I'm very excited about it!

I like your house better with the kitchen in the back. Your primary prep area will be between the sink and range. I can see why Pepper suggested swapping the sink and DW, but I'm not so sure. I have prepped over the DW before and it's not comfortable for me. On the other hand, your prep space is too small with the sink on the right so I would consider the swap in this case.

I agree to push pantry and frige together. The space between them is wasted. You can get a fridge with a single door opening to the left so your landing space would be to the open counter on the right of fridge. With fridge and pantry together, you could do a corner sink in that left corner. How do you feel about a corner sink? The DW ends up kind of diagonal behind you in that case so consider the ergonomics of loading/unloading. Then you'd have much more prep space betwee sink and range.

Good luck!

I believe I would shift the refrigerator away from the middle of that run down next to the pantry to give a continuous run of counterspace.

Have you tried a variation with the counter run on the range side running straight down and returning at 90-degrees instead of angling?

Gee ... great ideas! A few I've considered myself .... so I just feel so reassured! I will definitely move the pantry and refrig side by side as plllog and other suggested, and I definitely think the MW needs to come next as txpepper suggested - whether it ends up in the base cabinet or in an upper cabinet. And yes - this way I can get a REAL hood! I will look at your side suggestions, txpepper -- I especially like the idea of the french door -- although I think I would like an illustration of what you're talking about there if you get a chance. Thanks!

Isle2isle - I'll get pencil and graph paper and play with placement of that peninsula some ... I see what you're saying about walking all the way around it - I'm particularly thinking of traipsing to the back yard with steaks and burgers for the grill. Beachlilly - the fact you've had more than one person in your 9x11 kitchen is incredibly encouraging -- thank you. And breezygirl - I'm just so relieved I'm not the only person who second-guesses herself so much she decides at the last minute to "flip" some rooms around! Good luck with your build, too! And hey ... I'm starting to feel almost normal again, ya'll!

As far as the front of the house ... here's what I'm seeing that you all don't see as a problem (which probably means I'm OVER analyzing once again .... ). If you look at the front elevation, you'll see the dining room window way to the left and the front door way to the right. It just doesn't look symmetrical to me. There are several options to solve it ... an entry closet could be backed up to the master closet so there would actually be no need for the closet on the left at all ... but then I think it would open up the area a bit TOO much --. So, reduce the size of the closet on the left and just move the door down some? Or get rid of the closet and put columns or partial walls? Or, after getting all this feedback from you all, maybe it's not a problem after all, and I'll just leave it just like it is.

Thank-you, thank-you. What an awesome help and encouragement you all are.

Thanks palimpset - yes, I agree the refrig and patnry need to be together. And I'll play with a 90 degree turn on the peninsula instead of the angle ... good idea! Thanks!

Actually, I think the elevation problem is the window, not the door. Because it's centered on the inside, it's kind of squished into the corner on the outside. And I don't think it matters a whit, unless it bugs you a lot

Does anything go between the window and the door? A nice bench? A step riser for flowerpots? A wall fountain? An amazing piece of bronze wall sculpture? If you put anything on the porch then you have division by threes, rather than two halves having a tiff and standing with their backs to each other.

I'm not at all sure it would work, and don't have the right computer just now to test it, but I wonder if it would work to put the sink where the range is, eliminate all or some of the cabinetry on the back wall, and put the range on the fridge wall. If there were dish storage in the dining room it would make up for the lost cabinet. There could also be a rolling cabinet under the back window. And if you did that, you could make a pass through window to the back porch, and maybe even an outdoor serving counter. Just a notion.

I would consider putting a cottage window inside the walk-in closet on the front elevation.

I'm one to disagree about the pantry/fridge moving together. I know that when I take something out of either the pantry or the fridge, I want somewhere to put the stuff. It's why I didn't put the fridge next to my pantry in my kitchen. I instead made that area my "snack" area. I put an appliance garage which will house the toaster oven, and underneath put in the drawer MW. Above is where I store all the snack goodies including things like peanut butter, etc and under the MW is where I'm planning on putting all my plastic tubs. Of course it depends on how you work, etc. :)

Something is bothering me about the kitchen layout but I can't put my finger on it just yet. The penninsula jut out is part of the problem. Let me sleep on it.

The right pantry door opens across that bit of counter anyway, so you would have to open and close the door to use that spot as set down for the pantry. In some kitchens that spot may work but in this kitchen it shortens the counter run within a work area, and it would also end up being a cubbyhole.

plllog - I hadn't even considered what will go on the porch - but you're right that it could make things symmetrical. (Your analogy about the two halves having a fit is funny ... and a perfect description of what I'm seeing!) When I mentioned the idea of the sculpture to my DH he had a fit, though. That front porch is the only thing he specifically wanted so that's "his" porch. So I think I'll choose my battles right now . :)

palimpsest - I like the idea of the window in the closet. When you say "cottage window", are you talking about any type of small window? That's a good solution, I think ... doesn't necessitate moving anything at all on the inside.

cpartist, I see your point about landing space for the pantry, but agree with palimpsest that the longer counter run is the higher priority in this small kitchen. Hopefully, the peninsula will be close enough to the pantry to serve as a landing space. And I'm eager to know what you came up with after sleeping on it ... I know for me, that's when I do my best work :)

The writer I quoted in my opening post was right about GW saving sanity .... you all have sure made a difference in my outlook. Your creative ideas are so valuable, and the reassurance is priceless. Thank you so much.

Yes, maybe like a small casement. Although I think technically a cottage window is a double hung where the upper sash is half the height of the lower and the window does not open all the way.

Lezli...

This is my french-door idea. It is just a mock-up. Door style and widths would be based on the length of your wall and how you envision furniture to be placed.
{{!gwi}}
One thing I didn't mention in my first comment....I had thought about repositioning the peninsula to the other wall as a later post mentioned. This would help faciliate access to the patio for al fresco dining, etc....but then you would loose your pantry. And then when I read about a pass-through through your kitchen window to the outside porch/patio to facilitate movement of food, etc. instead of moving the peninsula...I thought that was a fab idea but then I would think the porch overhang would need to be extended further down the wall (and protect the window) to give you all-weather usage.

Living in the south, I like all the shade I can get.

Pepper
~ In 2nd week of construction

Well, if you're amenable to putting the peninsula across from the DR which will make a great buffet BTW, then place your pantry where the peninsula currently is. It can open into the kitchen or toward DR which may look nice if you make it with decorative doors or use an attractive hutch. It won't project as far and will facilitate porch access. You can then forego the pass through. Definitely agree to place the fridge where you get the most counter run. If you wanted a double oven they could go next to the fridge and just a cooktop in the present range location.

I like the french door or sliders on the rear. Depending on your preference, you could skip mullions altogether on the rear elevation to give an uninterrupted view.

My parents' house has a cottage window in a closet on the front elevation. It was great as it usually allowed sufficient light to avoid turning on the closet light. Their porch didn't extend in that direction to allow those standing outside to look into the closet, but yours will. Easy enough to add a window treatment, but something to consider.

I just wanted to say that the most miserable month of the whole process was the one leading up to the final layout design. That in my opinion is the most anguish-filled torment. It's so final. Every other decision builds upon that one and it's really the most important decision of all. The light fixtures, flooring, etc can be changed, but not the layout! So take heart, you are in the worst of it. And the layout guru's here are so fabulous. I took their advice even over my own inclinations and couldn't be more thrilled with my new kitchen!

why not just vent the hood through the roof?

personally, I like the kitchen with the penninsela.

I generally like kitchens in theb ack. However your dining space with the kitchen in the back is too small, you have 8ft to the doorway, so your table would be blocking it.

Thank you so much to all of you! You've given me much more food for thought! Yippee!!! I've just gotten home from way too long a day of work, though; so will "process" all of this a little later tonight or sometime tomorrow. Much to consider! :)

I do appreciate the comments from needsometips08 - it's obvious you understand where I am and what it feels like; I wish the builder had been as kind about it when I talked with him today .... He wasn't bad .. willing to do whatever ... but in regard to the suddenly changed plans, definitely sent some "Lady, are you stinkin' crazy?!?!?!?!?!" vibes .... So thanks for helping me believe it's not "me"!

Which brings up another question: The GC seems to think venting the hood is a problem. (Apparently he hasn't done many hoods that are actually vented?!??!) Anyway, can anybody tell me what's involved with venting the hood in that location? I wanted to still use a cabinet over the hood ... so can't the ductwork just go up the wall between the studs? Or how does the whole "venting the hood" work, anyway? Or does GW protocol suggest I should start a new post with that question??

Thanks for the drawing of the french doors, txpepper; I see what you're suggesting now .. I guess I need to get my graph paper furniture out and see how realistic it would be to have the doors like that. I definitely like the look a TON better. Thank you for taking the time to draw it for me! And BTW, good luck with your project, too! And to the rest of you kind, talented, creative people: I'm going to think about the placement of the peninsula and the logistics of service to the covered porch a bit ... we'll see what sleeping on it brings .... :) Thanks to all of you!

Lezli...

Is your home two-story? I'm not up on architectural renderings to know what certain things stand for looking at your plans. If it is a single story, I don't know why you can't run the vent pipe straight up through the ceiling and then across to the outside. I think the exterior exhaust would have to be x-number of inches below the roof-overhang.

A vent pipe would be a little too wide to run between a standard thickness wall. I think typical venthood piping ranges from 6 to 8 inches in diameter. But since you are building a custom home, you could always make this wall thicker to accommodate but you would be putting an extra bend in the piping .... which would reduce the efficiency.

If this is a two-story home and depending on what room-space is above and if you are willing and able to give up a little bit of space, you might could have the ventpipe enclosed (like a soffit but on the floor) and then decoratively put something over it, like maybe a bookcase or bury it in a closet (if the soffit runs along a wall, etc. etc.)

Just something else to sleep on. : )

ps. I kinda like the mullion-less french doors plus they are way easier to clean. lol

Pepper
~ Ready for structural re-inspection. : )

What all is involved with venting is having ductwork and make-up air. The best thing to do is to consult a good HVAC (heating, ventilation and air conditioning) contractor. I have heard of ducts going up through the studs, but I believe they work better if they just go up through the cabinet. Every bend in the duct decreases the efficiency, as does every extra foot of length. Therefore, a microwave hood that vents straight up a 10" round duct, 6'long has a hope of actually working to a great extent even though it starts at less than 300 cfm (cubic feet of air per minute). A 600 cfm blower with a couple of 90 degree turns and 20 feet of 7" duct, maybe not so much. Long ducts can be helped along with inline and/or external blowers.

Make-up air (MUA) is the air that comes into the house to replace the air that goes out. Traditionally, that is drafts that sneak in at the doors and windows, and sometimes under the walls. Now that houses are more air-tight, well insulated, etc., sometimes you need a special vent or fan to bring in the air lost, and if you have a don't-open-the-window climate, you might also want to heat or cool, or dehumidify the air coming in.

If it's all designed as one efficient system, built into the house, it's not so big a deal. Retrofitting more MUA for a bigger hood in a remodel is a big topic of discussion. It's important because you don't want the hood to be so powerful that it draws the flame from the burner in a gas furnace, range, dryer or fireplace, or draw the smoke down the chimney from a wood fire.

I'm surprised that your builder doesn't know all about this!! Even the cheap old apartments where I live have working hoods. Talk to an HVAC guy. There should be something easy you can build into the house that will give you good ventilation and make up air.

Thanks for the vent hood education, plllog! That helps a bunch! It's a one story home, txpepper -- so maybe it will actually end up being fairly uncomplicated. I guess we can build a "chase" from the top of the cabinet to the vaulted ceiling to cover up the ductwork?

Lezli....

If your current plans stay the same, is there an upper cab to the right of the cooktop?

If yes, depending on how tall your ceiling is in the kitchen, have you considered cabinets to the ceiling? If you haven't, it might be a consideration.

Your vent-pipe would then be covered by an upper cabinet or you could have a wall-mount, chimney style.

If you don't want to go up to the ceiling, you could use a chase to enclose the pipe. I have some friends that did that and it looked fine. Their kitchen was total custom and totally not inexpensive. If you increased the height of the upper cabs even a little, then it would help minimize the amount of chase and raise the eyeline [one would have to be standing further away to see over the top of the cab to see the chase] and you would have increased storage space. Plus, you can make the upper cabs 15 inches deep which would help visually minimize the chase.

I'm also thinking that having a fabulous wide window in your drawn-in sink wall will help pull the eye down rather than looking up toward the ceiling.

...and I just blabbed way too much as you probably will have vaulted ceilings. : )

Pepper
~ Measuring for window treatments.

We are pre-blueprint stage also for our retirement home. My sister keeps telling me that the more decisions we can make now instead of when we are in the middle of building, the cheaper it will be and the smoother things will go.

I know what you mean. Some things are changeable, but there are some things that we just won't be able to change without major expense. There are just so many decisions to go through and things to think out.

Because of this group, I'm on my 3rd kitchen--I haven't presented them yet..will probably wait until next week. But I've learned so much I could change things before I got to this point. And this is the first time we're building a home for ourselves. We've done some major remodeling in others.

One thing that helped me was for the forum to suggest I decide ahead of time where I'll store the current things I have in my kitchen and make sure I have planned the space for them. Thus my 3rd kitchen plan.

My problem is that I get analysis paralysis...but I'm being cured. Seeing everyone's wonderful plans come to fruition is a joy. Sharing in their excitement wants me to press on.