Where are you going to be doing most of your prep work... right or left of sink?

Where are your dishes going to be kept... like your tableware dishes?

Deedles - Prep work would be primarily done on the island, directly across from the range. Our every day dishes would be stored in the drawers one one side of the range, pots and pans in the drawers on the other side of the range.

I always like a house on a lake, and with a fixer-upper you have lots of opportunity!

I like your designated drop zone, with a drawer for your purse! You might add a shredder to the mail drawer.

I love the drawers by the stove, great idea.

The raised island area is very cool, it will probably be very popular. Great shape.

But the sink. It seems to be all alone. Everything else seems to be shunning it, when it is often the center of activity. The counter is even turning away from it. The "custom storage" will be small because it's triangular, and the trash is away, the cutlery storage is away, it just doesn't seem to be designed for use. If this is your "forever" house, think about living in it with lessened mobility. There would be a lot of reaching and stretching and twisting from the sink.

Bpathome - Thanks for your note! Our house is actually on salt water - we are on a small bay with quick access to the Gulf of Mexico. We've had manatees swimming right up to our dock and dolphins regularly swim around our bay - the location is what sold us on this house. Hopefully, this is our forever home.

I think the info center is brilliant - with all the storage for purses, keys, cell phone charging, and mail drop - it will go a long way to keeping clutter off the counters.

One of the kitchen designers tried talking me out of having a 2 level island - partly using the aging in place argument and also saying that the current style is single level. I considered it but decided to stick with what I really wanted. I know that is the right choice for us.

I think I see what you are saying about the sink but I'm not sure what to do about it. The kitchen designer had told us that the shape of the island necessitated the angled cabinets with less than ideal storage but we felt it was worth the sacrifice. If you have any ideas on how we could do this differently - please tell!

I think the sink position is awkward. Why must it be angled? What about a rectangle island?

far better to square the island and one level will be better. two sides of the square for seated people will better allow small turn of head to enjoy the view and interact with all other people on the two sides. The circular format has the view and living zone behind everyone's back and other seated people at the island completely out of the line of vision......poor for interaction.

This kitchen is more about looks than function. Which is fine, if you don't cook, but it has some serious issues even if all you do is MW leftover takeout.

The island isn't very functional. And neither is the planned location for your dish storage. Prep and cleanup zones are too mixed up currently, with no clear separation. Especially since you plan for dish storage in the cooking zone. That's especially poor functionality.

Bar height seating isn't comfortable for either young or old, and can be dangerous for both as well. You need to go to a local bar and spend a couple of hours perching on the stools to get a feel for why people have trended away from that. It doesn't do anything as a screening device for around the sink either since it's only 6" taller than counter height. Pots and pans will still be visible.

I'm also not at all fond of the main family entry in the home going straight through the danger zone where sharp knives and hot pans are there to injure. You need a much wider aisle for a traffic path for an entry than you do for a working aisle as well. I think you should swap the legs of the perimeter counters to keep the traffic out of the prep zone.

Do you have an overhead measured layout? That would aid in giving you more concrete suggestions.

If you've gotten this far with the design, you'll probably love it. You won't find huge enthusiasm here for anything non-standard (usually L-shape with rectangular island). (That's why you don't see my floor plan here.)

I am not a person that would be good with a sink in your location-- it would always have a pile of dishes "on stage" but you know yourself and how you live or want to live. Don't worry about the projections of others onto your design-- they are often based on a lot of assumptions that may or may not apply to you or your life.

In all due respect to Lori's response, I think there is a lot of enthusiasm for well functioning layouts. I personally have as you described (a broken L-shape with an island) planned but I've seen many times where someone is discouraged from having that type of layout. I think what you may be reading is a strong surge of remodeling that an island is trying to be used by an OP. The KDs on this forum, I believe push hard for proper function over form. I encourage you to post your layout and have it critiqued for function. It can be hard to accept but I think it's better to hear it instead of living with a possibly frustrating situation.

For this thread, the sink would drive me crazy. My sink is currently in an angled corner and this is the opposite. A sink really needs to have counters on either side (or at least one). It's a large kitchen that functions small.

Agree that sink landing is insufficient and multi-level island is sub-optimal. General comment is that the design strikes me as overly complex and confusing. Exotic and interesting is fun to design, but I'm of the opinion that good kitchen designs look relatively simple and make sense to a casual observer on first glance, and this design is not. So I recommend that you temper your urge to be exotic and interesting and instead focus on straightforward functionality.

Count me as another who would find the sink placement awkward. I also think it's a pity that the island design does not really allow for anyone seated at the counter to easily take in the view, especially since at least 2 of the diners will have their back to the view. From what you wrote, one of the pluses of your home is its location and view: take advantage of it.

Without a measured drawing, it's hard for me to know if your kitchen has the room for a double island but I thought I'd throw the idea out there anyway.

{{gwi:1986604}}

This plan gives you separate clean-up and prep zones. The fridge is closer to the range to make meal prep easier. It will serve as one of the "bookends" to the message center around the corner. The second island serves as a seating/entertaining bar with the prep sink and beverage fridge ("Bev") placed at the far end of the islands, closest to the family room area. Another plus, IMO, of this plan is that it offers a more direct path - between the two islands - from patio/family room to the fridge. Your island acts as a barrier, directing people past the range to get to the fridge.

If you're interested in more detailed plan suggestions, post your plan with measurements and information about where the doors lead, etc. You also need to tell us more about you, your family and how you use your kitchen and home.

I thought you might get some alternative thoughts on the island. Add me to the group that would like to see a different sink/island set-up. There will be lots of reaching and walking. I'm confident that if you keep an open mind, the best island configuration for both function and style will emerge.

I agree with swapping out the range and fridge runs. That's a darn dangerous path to travel through the kitchen.

Now, to make that island shape work, you take one of the legs and make it the cleanup zone, with the cleanup sink and the DW. That should be the side facing the fridge, where you have the range currently. You might think about doing dish storage in a drawer on that angled section. Now, put a prep sink on the other side facing the range. Probably all the way at the end for it.

That doesn't solve the raised bar issue, but it does split the prep and cleanup function much better, and makes the traffic through the space much safer.

I'd move the DW and sink across the range (DW at the end of the counter, then sink and an other cab at least 36" wide). I might consider a shallow cab with shelves in the recess next to the French door. If you'll have an angled part I'd have the MW there.

If you expect traffic from the entry next to the drop zone to flow mainly to the seating area, then I would swap dining and living to protect cooking+prep zone.

Thank you for all of your inputs - I was really enthused about our design and frankly, am having difficulty in seeing where the sink can be moved or why it's so terrible where it is. The entire space is not huge, it's a couple of steps, which we can live with to keep the overall design.

I was thinking about all of your feedback and realized that I have lived in many houses and apts over the years, both in the US and abroad, and I really never found a kitchen design that really bothered me other than not having the ability for 2 people to work at once in the kitchen and that is simply a space issue. Any changes I would have made to past kitchens would have been aesthetic, not functional (except the existing one in my new house where cabinets can't be opened without banging into something).

We realize that we will not be able to reach across the island and will have to walk around it to hand someone a plate but we see the big space on the eating area almost like a dining room table - lots of space to spread out. We looked long and hard at changing to a single level island and we just really prefer the bar height. We are both tall and counterheight just feels wrong to us. In terms of seating, we've both spent some time on bar stools and we are fine with them - lots of very comfortable bar seating is available. We also looked at LOADS of pictures on Houzz and there was no shortage of 2 level islands.

In terms of the size of the space - the house is 2600 sq ft, 4BR/3BA all one one level. The wall with the frig is 144" long, the wall with the range is 96". The door closest to the range leads to the laundry room with a full bath behind it (there will be a swinging door with rain glass there). The door around the corner close to the key drop zone leads to the garage.

We envisioned doing the prep on the part of the counter directly across from the range. Cleanup would be on the other side of the sink. We do see that we are breaking all of the Work Zone rules with this design and we really are open to considering something else. Our house has a beautiful waterfront location - there are sliders all the way across the back of the house to take advantage of the view. The kitchen, however, will not have a good view no matter what so both us and our guests, I'm sure will gravitate to the seating area at the back of the house, with the view of the pool and the water, rather than the traditional hanging around the kitchen. I've attached a picture of the view from the back of the house to show you what I mean. Also, ,We do having a dining room table but it will be rarely used.

Lisa_A - thank you so much for taking the time to modify our design but your design eliminates all of my pantry storage which is really critical. The house has no basement and no space for a separate pantry.

I sure hope I don't sound too defensive here. I really do appreciate the feedback but possibly now, when I have shared a bit more, it will spur some new ideas...

thank you all!

If you could do a downdraft vent...I'd swap the sink and range. This would give you easier access to putting dishes away in upper cabinets and more space around the sink.

Having the range (drop in?) on the island would work well, since the stools are so far away. No splatters! :)

But don't you like counterspace next to the cooktop, for the utensils and ingredients and cutting boards? That might be a better solution than the sink on the angle, though. Good thinking :)

If the island were squared off there, the sink OR cooktop could have workspace on either side.

My first and continual thought is that the seating area of the island appears too small for the number of stools shown.

Can you bring it a bit larger toward the stools? If not, I think there is really only room for 3 adults there. There doesn't appear to be sufficient over-hang for the stools to give knee and elbow room for 5 full grown people.

I must tell you that I agree with the others who see no positives in the island shape or sink placement. I think it would be a much more attractive and easier to use space with a different shape and layout. Initially changing the shape to be more rectangular, with the sink across from the fridge, seems like a more functional layout to me. I would vastly prefer 1 level and counter height seating as well. It adds the ability for standing at the island to help or mingle more easily and seems more inviting to me. But of course this is my opinion.

If given the current island shape, I would put in a prep sink across from the fridge, and main sink across from the range. I would not have the sink in its current space. But would consider double dishwashers there. If you home will be sleeping a lot of people, 2 dishwashers might be a good idea.

MzKiz,
You seem to be focusing on a defense of your original proposal rather than an open minded persuit for better ones, which is not the best use of the forum. Better to let the ideas fly. Your original proposal will still be around in the end if you so choose.
Regards,
g

MzKiz,
For a good example of how best to leverage the expertise on this forum, I recommend that you take a look at ecarson's "should I break the news..." thread that's going right now. I'm no pro, but I've been around here long enough to know that good ideas come from folks like buehl, lavender, and others, so you'd be wise to take advantage of their attention as best you can. Just don't let lavender talk you into a banquette :)
Best,
g

Do you plan to actually cook in this kitchen?

There's no place to sit and look at the view, so unless you plan to sit in the living area and just look at the kitchen as part of the view, you should be very concerned that the kitchen shown be something other than decorative. IF you want to prepare meals in it. It's terribly deficient for that purpose. It IS nice to look at.

So, do you actually cook?

If you do, then think about making a simple meal in this kitchen. A can of soup and a sandwich. Not even "real" cooking. You're walking all over. If you want to have two people in there, one making the sandwich, and one heating up the soup on the stove, you're in each other's way and crossing over from left to right and all over the place. Add in the third element of someone coming home through the garage. They're in your way with that hot pan of soup in your hands as you're trying to pour it out into mugs. Or, they're in the way of the person trying to cut the sandwich in two.

But, if you don't even make soup and sandwiches, just add an extra microwave somewhere and call it good. Because it's eye catching. Never mind it's hip bashing and footsore producing. It's all FORM. And very little FUNCTION.

So, do you actually cook?

If so, post an overhead layout with measurements, and you'll get lots of help to make working in the kitchen much more pleasurable and efficient to work in.

"We would like to have some opinions from the GardenWeb community - to see if there are problems with the layout, functionality or any improvements we should consider making."

I guess you're not as open to making changes as you thought you were.

But, I have to add my .02 in here. If you have that gorgeous view out the back of the house, why on earth is the kitchen design not capitalizing on it? Other than cost, constraints, why wouldn't you want to add windows to the kitchen to be able to see the view while you're working?

The priorities for the kitchen seem to be skewed in an odd manner. It's not really focused on creating a workable space, but it's not really focused on aesthetics either. Otherwise, the views would be taken into account in the design. With the cleanup sink on the outside wall there, and a big window, the folks at the island, including you with your morning coffee, could sit and enjoy visiting with the cook and look out the window.

I'd put the range and the fridge on the wall where you show the pantries, and do the sink on the outside wall, and add a window. Then do a single level island with a prep sink so as to maximize the workspace for two.

Well, I'll put most of my weight (post-Thanksgiving!) on the side that says you know yourself best and should tweak what you really like about this into a little more functionality.

You really like the island's shape and two-level design, and know that you are very comfortable with a variety of functions and layouts, so -- great. The big issue to me also is the way the work areas angle away from the sink.

1. For a more comprehensive change, I like the direction Live Wire Oak suggested.

2. For minor changes, I'd consider moving the sink/cleanup function to the arm to its right. You give it place of priority facing the center of the island now, but most people spend most of their time at the primary (and by FAR more interesting) function of food preparation. So how about prepping facing those on the stools? This would be part of a now nicely related triangle of fridge-prep-stove, with cleanup to the side.

FWIW, people feel very different on this issue, of course, but IMO orienting everything to one view is frequently overdone. Like eating a large dinner of only one item, when we all know that turkey and gravy always taste better for the cranberry sauce, brussels sprouts, etc.

Leaving a view behind not only makes it more important by heightening its impact when returning to it, but makes it more interesting and often seemingly more beautiful.

I'll never forget a finely designed home in the coastal mountains north of Los Angeles where one turns a corner on the way to the dining room and walks toward a perfectly positioned single sheet of glass with a stunningly beautiful view down a canyon to the Pacific, then turns into an exquisite dining room with no view at all--except of those around the table (and some really fine art).

In your case, since the view isn't great from the kitchen area, developing this opportunity to concentrate on each other into an asset makes great sense to me.