I'm looking at your layout and wondering about the space of things. The kitchen looks very large in proportion to the family room and dining space and it looks like a lot of space that is just open in that area and not used for anything. Could you explain why you are going this particular route with the open space between island and left of kitchen? What is the spacing between things, size of rooms etc?

I don't think your TV cabinet will be very usefull for watching TV unless you angle it towards the sectional. Would turning the sectional 90 degrees and putting the TV on the garage wall, where you are wanting a mudroom give you a better view in general. You could then see the TV from the kitchen too. If you did this I'd move the island over too to give more space in that direction. You could still do a mudroom and then a built in unit along the garage wall. Assuming you have ~4 ft there.

lyfia: thank you very much for your response.
It's exciting to finally put out my ideas and get feedback on them.

1. I think I'm suffering from claustrophobia because:
- in my previous house, it was only 34" between the L-counter and the island, and 34" between island and wall.
- in my current kitchen, instead of an L, it's a U, so the 30" range is a U to the right of the sink. So there's only 26" between the brick fireplace and the U-corner.
Talk about waste of space now. basically from the dining table to the French doors (where the 48" range is) is open-wasted space.

So now I want everything to have at least 40-48" between for traffic.
I don't think i can bring the island any closer to the fridges, or else it'd block the flow from the livingroom to the kitchen (due to the big fireplace sticking out like that).

2. We currently have the TV at the angled wall, and the sectional at the windows/facing the TV, but because of the door-to-porch, and door, there seems to be too many things to walk around for traffic flow.
The TV will be able to be angled left/right, etc, so we see it from the sectional, or the island (forgot to add stools).

Again, thank you very much for being my 1st responder.
:)

While we're at it, from your experience, how much might this renovation cost?
I'm in suburb Massachusetts.
Am I out of my mind thinking that this can be done for $55K plus 10%, if we reuse the cabinets and we do many of the labor?

My guesstimates:
- Level the kitchen flooring: ??? $2.5K ???
- Removing load-bearing wall: $13K
- putting up wall where French doors were: $3K
- appliances (48" Wolf range, 48" hood, Amana fridges, dishwasher drawers, Advantium): $17K
- SS counter/sink: $3.2K
- granite counter for island: $2.5K
- 3 new cabinets (sink, 2 island cabinets): $2K
- plumber to move DW/sink plumbing ~1ft/install propane range: $2K
I don't have a guess for:
- windows/install costs: ?~$3K?
- A friend will help with electrical, lighting = $1K

That's ~$49,200, plus 10% = $54,120

Where am I FAR FAR OFF on my guesstimates?

It looks like you have a really pleasant space to work with, Huango. These days I have absolutely no idea about what costs should be. Using grossly inflated real estate prices as a rationale and driving engine, they've become inflated beyond rationality. And that's with most of that inflation actually allocated to the land under the house--construction costs haven't gone up anywhere near that much, something kitchen contractors obviously never mention. Another thread has the cabinets alone priced at an amount which, after subtracting expenses, should still be a decent year's income for a carpenter. Oh, well.

In any case, it does occur to me that your kitchen would probably function a lot better for you if you could slide the island over farther to the left to serve the stove-sink-fridge area, i.e., where you'll be working regardless of where the island is. It would also offer a bit more room to the family area. Is it especially desirable aesthetically for that fireplace wall to be as wide as it is, or could some of the end be removed? Most masonry fireplaces can fit into a space about five feet wide, nonmasonry maybe four feet.

rosie: thank you; anything is better than what I currently have.

Unfortunately/fortunately, that large brick fireplace is here to stay. It's a center fireplace, meant to be in the heart of the house (some ?Frank LLoyd? thing?). We're plannig to remove the 2inch-high brick hearth, but not touching the rest.
Is there a better layout to accommodate this fireplace?

Oh, I totally forgot to add to my cost list:
- hardwood floor throughout w/ radiant heat: ~$21K (we have hot water baseboard)
so even before we start, I've blown my budget.
Total = $65K.

Is the fireplace already there? It seems to stick out kind of far into the kitchen. Is there a way you can really work with it if you can't change it?

I do agree with the previous poster that moving the island to the left would seem more functional but then the fireplace interferes. Maybe it can't be helped.

I would proabbly go with one flooring for the whole space but I like bringing it all together where is it so open.

As for windows, will it be more important to match the rest of the windows for the exterior look? I think a large window in a wall without uppers is a really nice clean look and actually very suited to a New England home.

ajpl: we must have been typing at the same time; yes, the fireplace is already there.

My prep area between the sink and range: w=48" x d=30" is where I'll do 90% of the cooking.
(My husbands 'cooks' with the Advantium/microwave, so I put it all the way to the right of the range, and where the kids can heat up pizza, oatmeal, etc, and out of my way.)

When I had an island, I never used it for prepping, just for space for entertaining (put out food). People just generally HANG OUT at an island/peninsula, so maybe this way, they'll be out of my prep-cook-triangle. (trying to make lemonade with lemons - since I have to live w/ the fireplace being right there).

Another thought is that when I have large Holiday dinners, I can rotate the dining table, add another table to line up to the island, and put the food/drinks at the island.

As for windows, they face the back of the house, so no, windows do not have to match exterior. And no need for curtains for privacy.

I just love how Abbycat's windows look.

This is the current lay-out.
See what I mean about about claustrophobia, between the penninsula and the fireplace?
And talk about wasted space!

Until we renovate, does anyone have suggestions on how to utilize the entire space? I've rotated the dining table, but then it's right in front of the fireplace, blocking it.

thank you.

What are the dimensions of the rooms? I could see in you last one why you call it wasted space, however I think it is still space that could be used for a breakfast table, however I don't know any dimensions at all from any of this so hard to tell.

I see dining tables placed along side FP all the time when in a dining room. I wouldn't worry about it not being visible the whole time if you want it in your dining. In a dining room it doesn't seem like it becomes a focal point the same way it does in other rooms, but more utilitarian.

- dimensions (approx.):
-- Kitchen: w=18.5' x d=13.5'
-- family: w=17.5' x d=13.5'
-- diningroom: w=11'x10.5'

Right now, we use the dining table to eat everything. So I have to walk ~18 feet every time I serve the babies the next course or get more water, etc.

I guess another issue is that we cross through the diningroom to go from the familyroom to the 2nd floor via the foyer stairs.

thanks for your inputs.

Would switching kitchen and family room be an option?

lyfia: interesting idea. What made you think of it?

The familyroom is not part of the main house foundation, so to move the kitchen plumbing, it would mean having to cut through ?8inches? concrete. I believe that the switch would be too extensive.

Oh, total = $70K (I can't add; duh.)

Your overall floorplan is somewhat similar to mine. Is that family room your only living space? Would you consider moving the dining area into there and the family room where the DR is? At least you wouldn't have to walk thru the DR to get to the upstairs.

malhgold: could you share some pictures? (you're not in the finished Kitchen blog). If you have similar set-up, how do you like it? What would you have done differently?
- Did you divide up your flooring or have the same throughout?
- what kind of windows? I'm thinking of 2 large 47"x47" at the sink/hood wall.

We have a formal livingroom to the Left of the foyer (which is Left of Diningroom.) Behind the fridges is the 1st floor full bath, and Left of that is my office.

I had thought about swapping the DR and the Familyroom, w/ the idea of putting the TV on top of the fireplace mantle. but since the room is so shallow, we'd be sitting too close to the screen or something.

We can also access the stairs via the hallway by the fridge/bathroom, through the livingroom into the foyer.

huango - sorry I thought it was all on a basement. Concrete is a whole other story. Reason I thought of flipping it was just the sizes were about the same and the FP wall there might make it easier to work with as a family room and you wouldn't have to walk through the family room from the garage with groceries. More of a flow thing and trying to think of options to the solve the FP wall thing.

I would if this was my kitchen move the island toward the left to get more space for the family room.

If you have 4' on the sides of it you won't think it is cramped. However your picture does not show dimensions. So no way to know what you really have to figure out a way to make the most use of the space with the FP wall or see if something could be done to make the FP wall feel like it integrates with the kitchen.

Update:
- I moved the island ~1ft over to the left.
- I roated the dining table, giving more walk-through space.
- I added approx measurements. Hope that helps ?orient? things.

Would love additional feedback.

Sorry...my kitchen has not even started. I'm still working on layouts as well. I was just talking about my downstairs layout.

I think that 11' space looks like it's missing something with the island all the way to the right like that. The way things are now, I don't think that island will be very useful for you. It seems to me that a peninsula might be better.

Can you make that fireplace any narrower? Have you tried any shapes for the island that aren't "standard"?

what if you put a smaller, freestanding island in that 11' area? I don't think you can just leave that space empty. The freestanding island doesn't have to line up exactly with the other island. Maybe something like a 2'X2' or slightly larger one. Take a look at this link.

Here is a link that might be useful: John Boos Island

{{gwi:1985379}}

Just a concept sketch.

The idea of putting the island against the fireplace may not be a bad one for the space. Are there any fire concerns? Is the fireplace used?

This is a really small picture but I thought of your kitchen when I saw it. It could be quite narrow and long like your kitchen but improve the function of your old layout. Of course the uppers don't suit your plans but I was just thinking of the layout.

Instead of an L shape or a penninsula you'd have an F shape and then with or without the island depending on how it worked with the fireplace.

I like bmorepanic's layout for the kitchen, but keeping the dining where fp is and family room as you had it due to the sizes of the rooms. Though nothing says you couldn't switch if you ever wanted to. Very flexible floorplan.

Showing the spacings gives a much better idea. The 11' is a lot of wasted space, all the others look good. I want to think about this some more as I had an idea that won't work with those spaces, but with some tweaking it might.

What about this revised version?
- switch location of range and sink (pass-through): less structural work (close 1 window, shrink French doors to 1-2 large windows)
- moved island a bit closer Left to fridges

I don't understand my need for wide open space; I'm only 4feet and 10inches tall.

This plan allows me lots of elbow-room to cook.
My family uses the sink, DW, and Microwave a lot, and those stuff will be at the far right, so THEY can use the island.
I'll use the space to the Right of the range.

Also, currently, with the wall between kitchen and familyroom up, the traffic flow is that of the curved arrow, so that's why I felt like I needed a big opening between the fireplace and the island.
But w/out the wall, the traffic flow will be that highlighted in pink.

THANK YOU very much for your feedback.

- malhgold: good luck w/ your plans (fun, yet nerve-wrecking) ú And I had thought about putting my island on casters, so it can roll where I need. But I donft know what is the largest grollableh island, and Ifm not sure how much my hardwood floor would handle all that rolling around. With this updated layout, I plan to put my dishes/glasses/cup in the island drawers; thatfd be a lot of clicking when I roll the island around.
- Bmorepanic: that is THINKING OUTSIDE OF THE BOX! I love it. Ifve been stuck in the same rut that I couldnft see past my troublesome fireplace. I like your suggestion, especially with the pass-through window. However, Ifm planning on a 48h range and 2 fridges (like the all-fridge and all freezer), so Ifm not sure those appliances would fit that layout.
- Ajpl: while I donft think therefs a fire concern, I would think that putting cabinets right next to/touching a fireplace would put the whole view of the fireplace unbalanced, since therefs no cabinet to the Left of the fireplace, no? We use the fireplace at gatherings, etc, not on a regular basis.
- Ajpl: I love the idea of the F-shape, especially the thought of having my edeskf at the short leg of the F. But I donft like a sink or a range at the peninsula, which is what I have now V not good with kids. No one basically sits at the peninsula because I¡¦m usually cooking there/splattering/hot oven-steam, etc.
- Lyfia: "I want to think about this some more"¨

--- I would love more feedback.
- Do I need another upper cabinet to the right of the sink, to balance out the other upper cabinets?
- Do you think w=48"¨xd=30"¨ is large enough prep area?
- Any concerns about the refrigerator door hitting the range when opened?
- Is there a real problem with putting the Advantium/microwave next to a TV?
- Do I have the/any WOW factor?

I'll try to post a picture of the current kitchen; you would cry for me. Hopefully you can see the potential like I can.

I really should be sleeping; my babies will be up at the crack of dawn.

What I was thinking I can't get to work with the traffic flow you're showing. I like your switching of the stove and sink. No need to walk past the cook to get to the sink.

However I think with the wide open space there it will be natural to walk through the kitchen to the family room anyways so was thinking about how to try to direct the traffic outside the kitchen work areas.

Here is another possiblity to direct the traffic to walk outside the kitchen going to the family room. I don't have the exact dimensions of what space you have available, but you could make the extension of the island to be vanity depth if need be. Also the space to walk behind would be functional even down to 30" wide, but 36" would be better. I just did a guess of that from the sink wall to edge of fp is 11' and I used full 2' deep bases. This may not work at all just from space availability, but wanted to throw it out there anyways.

It would also give you a landing space for stuff from the fridge and freezer. I also shaped the island a little more round to facilitate walking around it seem smoother and to allow people sitting there to see in a few directions. I think you might be able to add one seat, though it might be in a traffic path.

{{gwi:1985382}}