If you could post a picture rotated that would be very helpful.

Have you thought of an under counter microwave? You would need 27 inches. Also in the pantry don't forget the walls require width, so what are those 5 inches each side, which gives you a little ovefr 2 feet in width for the walk-in.

We have 39.5" from stove to island countertop edge, and it works well for prep, step, twirl, toss in pan. You might be able to make the island deeper by 9". Your layout is similar to ours and I keep wondering how to give you the double ovens approximately where your pantry is.

Are you planning a desk in this room? You mentioned homework and bill paying. I love the company but I get a little crazy when the backpacks and books are spread all over the island. (And we have a desk area!).

Can you show more of the adjacent area? Here's our layout. We have a walk through pantry at top right.

Edited to add that our fridge is a full depth fridge not counter depth as the picture shows, we struggled trying to figure out where to put it.

This post was edited by oldbat2be on Mon, Oct 20, 14 at 6:32

I don't know if it matters to you, but you actually only need 24" for a drawer microwave (I have one and the cabinet its in is 24").

OB2B- I always love a fireplace in the kitchen! With all those wonderful windows and great island...I wish I could make holiday treats at your house :)

Due to various reasons, I had to set aside our kitchen planning for a while.. Lots of starts and halts. But I did manage to buy appliances over the holidays which forced me to think about this more. We decided to put an oven-microwave combo up by the pantry (on the long stretch to the right).

My one uncertainty is having the main cleanup sink so far from the fridge. When I put dishes and glasses away, I will want them near the DW. But then everyone has to cross my cooking zone to get from fridge to plates/utensils etc. How do people deal with this?
Thanks!

Hi cubimar,

Not an easy problem to solve. This type of inefficiency was one of the main reasons we chose not to include a prep sink and it seems to me that most layouts that include prep sink suffer from this problem. I could imagine plates stored far from fridge (maybe near where food will be plated from stove), but it would drive me nuts if I had to walk across the kitchen from the fridge for glasses, cereal bowls, or silverware. So I agree it's a worthy goal.

I really like the ways ours is setup with all everyday dishes stowed in a snack/secondary prep area between DW & fridge.

If you swap DW with the trash, you can keep your glasses+plates in the cabs on the DR side of that counter. Although they will still be not very close to the fridge, I believe people would prefer (or more easily pesuaded) to go from the back of the island instead of your cooking/prep area.. Also, it is better to not to have the DW b/w the sink and the range, since that area can also be used for prep when there are 2 cooks. (you still plan to have another sink in the island, I guess).

LL - I missed your reply! I wish you could be here with me this weekend, I'm in full cookie baking mode:). Full disclosure - we haven't used that fireplace in maybe 4 years. On the list of future projects is converting it to gas. We do have our woodburning stove going most of the winter, and it just doesn't make sense to use the other inefficient fireplace(s). Also, when we renovated, we changed from forced hot water to central heat/air and the house has been so much warmer.

Cubimar-any chance of a better picture? I have a hard time reading your layout plan.

I don't understand the prep sink comments regarding forcing people to zone-cross when putting dishes, etc. away or being "inefficient". Plan your dish storage next to the DW and on the periphery - problem solved.

Here's an idea:

The sink wall is 3" deeper than standard. Base cabinets are also 3" deeper, if you can get them in your cabinet line. If not, then pull them 3" out from the back wall. This gives you extra space behind the sink for the faucet and a splash zone. If your window is counter-height (which I recommend), it gives you 3" of buffer for splashing. If your window is above the counter, it gives you 3" of space to accommodate the window sill and still have enough room behind the sink for just about any faucet (with standard depth counters, there is often not enough room behind the sink for many faucets b/c the sill gets in the way of the handle movement.)

It also gives you more workspace and allows the upper cabinet on the end to be 14" or 15" deep. Which leads to...

Dish storage is in a 42" Dish Hutch on the periphery but right next to the DW so it's easy to put dishes away, it's easy to get dishes for setting the table, and there's no zone-crossing or getting in the way of the cooks when setting the table. I like the idea of the upper cabinet going down to the counter, but you don't have to do that. In fact, an alternate is a normal upper, 15"D, with a coffeemaker underneath for a Coffee/Tea Zone. There's still plenty of dish storage space in 42" of base + upper cabinets.

Refrigerator and Pantry are easy to get to from both the Prep and Cooking Zones.

The 2-bin Trash+Recycle in the island is in the Primary Prep Zone, near the Cooking and Cleanup Zones as well as near the Secondary Prep Zone (b/w the main sink and cooktop). Note that far more trash and recyclables are generated during prepping and cooking than cleaning up, so the best place (if you only have one) for the trash/recycle pullout is in the Prep Zone and near the Cooking and Cleanup Zones.

Pantry....by angling the doorway/door, the pantry door is not in the way of whatever is next to it - there's much more swing room. We have a similar layout of pantry & oven cabinet and it works fine. We do have our door swing reversed, but in your case the refrigerator door would be in the way and a possible danger if you have a glass pantry door.

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Zone map:

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Oh, regarding the Refrigerator being so far from the Cleanup Zone and Dish Storage...

You don't need the Refrigerator next to your dish storage as they aren't used together. If you're thinking of Tupperware, etc., for leftovers, store storage containers in the cabinet b/w the oven and cooktop.

The only need for the Refrigerator during cleanup is for putting away condiments and storing leftovers. Put the leftovers on the island from the Dining Room, fill the containers, take the dishes to the sink or DW. Or, take containers to the DR table (which we do) and fill containers there - then take the containers to the refrigerator and the dirty dishes to the main/cleanup sink.

The Refrigerator sees the most use in two ways:

#1 - During prepping and cooking

#2 - Snacks

This means the Refrigerator should be near the Prep and Cooking Zones but also on the periphery where someone looking for a snack or even a glass of water can use the Refrigerator without getting in the way of those prepping, cooking, or cleaning up.

Pretty much every time my kids open the fridge they need a glass, plate, bowl and/or silverware. And that's true about half of the time for me. So in our house it would be unacceptable to stowe everyday dishes on opposite side of kitchen from fridge.

In regards to the kids and snacks. Am I the only one that has everyday meal dishes and then kid/snack dishes? When we eat meals together we 'set the table' with dishes that are stored by the dishwasher - 99% of the time it's dinner. They aren't fancy china - they are our true everyday dishes.

However, in the drawer stack by the fridge we have other dishes that I'd call breakfast and snack dishes. There are smaller bowls used for cereal, plastic cups for frequent drinks, paper plates and other kid type plates (not baby stuff mine are 9 and 12). Those are located right next to the fridge as I said and also right under the MW. Also in close proximity are the coffee cups and the coffee maker. Also handy there vs. by the full place settings.

So far I really like that set up and don't see us changing our quick snack dishes way of life. But it's possible it's just what we are used to and it works for us so we have stuck with it.

Silverware after being moved several times once we moved in finally found it's home in closest proximity to the sink/stove and fridge but not by the place settings/dishwasher. I started there first and hated it. Moving it finally to it's higher point of use spot felt like a much more natural spot for it so it's stayed. Removing the basket from the dishwasher to unload silverware is simple enough and hasn't caused an issue at all.

That said, this new kitchen is much larger and more functional than what we had so I actually have found myself with some 'extra' room. Most things I had planned for but it has been nice once settled to do some adjusting and not be spilling out of the drawers!

Snacking - silverware yes, other dishes, no. Glasses - we have glasses used for meals and different ones used for snacks. I got tired of never having a full set of glasses for meal time, so I bought less expensive (mostly plastic) cups/glasses for snacking. The "snack" ones are stored near the refrigerator. As far as other dishes are concerned, when snacking, food is heated in the dishes they were stored in (either as-purchased or as put away as leftovers). Most leftovers are about 1 person sized, so we usually eat right out of that dish (less dishes to wash!) Ditto frozen meals, etc.

I have to admit that while our mealtime dishes are stored near the DW, our silverware is not - it's stored on the other side of the kitchen b/c that's where we had better storage for it. We just pick up the silverware basket (or the 3rd tray) and carry it over to the silverware drawer - unload it and return it to the DW.

Reducing steps for snackers is a low priority for me, I'd rather make it more efficient for prepping and cooking since over 80% of the time spent in the kitchen is spent prepping and cooking. 20% (or less) is spent cleaning up.

Yes buehl exactly - plastic cups and some plastic plates we have collected from when they were younger. I like keeping the snackers over by the fridge to keep them from walking through the cooking zone. The dishes and dishwasher are on the end by the dining room. Snack drawers and fridge on the opposite end. So the few point of use snack dishes we have come in perfectly handy and fit the bill. :)

Interesting you have snacking silverware. Besides the very few spiderman and scooby doo forks we have left we only use the standard but that drawer is conveniently located for cooks and snackers and no crossing zones to get it.

In my old house, the layout was almost the mirror image of what Buehl posted just above. The differences were that our pantry was located elsewhere (in a former butler's pantry), so where your pantry it, ours was squared off - next to the fridge was the oven and when you turned the corner, that's where the prep sink was. The glasses were stored in a wall cabinet above and to the right of the dishwasher and the dishes were stored in a drawer in the island (behind and to your left if you were standing facing the dishwasher). For the most part, that kitchen was laid out perfectly.

I really dislike having the fridge so isolated in this kitchen. When you come home from the grocery store there is no landing space next to it to allow you to easily stock the fridge or pantry. Snack items and storage utensils will end up being stored in the pantry. I wonder if taking buehl's drawing and rotating the island so that it is on an angle would be a better choice. Such a configuration does waste of space, however leaving it as is makes it look like you will walk around that island a lot. Alternatively, a peninsula may be a better choice. It feels like an island is being forced into this room because it is trendy at the moment.

Actually, you could store snack dishes in the island. Take that 12" cabinet and turn it into a 12"Dx24"W cabinet facing the refrigerator.

The island is also the landing space - both when prepping and when loading the refrigerator with groceries. It's how I do it - I put the bags on the end of the peninsula across from the refrigerator, open the refrigerator (both doors) and load everything in. No extra steps, etc. Just turn to get something, put it in the refrigerator.

I also use the peninsula to stage leftovers - fill the containers at the table, stage the containers on the peninsula (it's next to the DR), and then load the refrigerator with the containers.

Most of the "action" will take place "above" the island - there won't be much running around it.

Prep & Cooking - above the island (refrigerator, pantry, island sink, range/cooktop, ovens)
Cleanup - to the right of the island (sink, DW, dish storage)

If the Pantry could be moved somewhere else, it would make a difference in this kitchen.

A layout of the entire first floor would also help...

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. It is really helpful to get your ideas and hear what has worked for others. I am including better drawings, including the full floor plan. This does not include any updates based on your feedback.
A couple of comments:
The periphery walls already have dry wall accounted for. I have drawn in the ones around pantry.

We had envisioned the area between window and slider to serve as a bar area. DH is inclined to leave it as such. I have not ruled out switching dishes to that space. I think I like the idea of dishes in the island - but still a bit concerned about traffic there during prep/table setting. SJHockey, was that an issue for you?

Buehl, thanks for the layout drawings. That gives me loads to think about. I think we will move prep sink over a bit to make sure we have landing space for fridge.

We did plan the window to be about 3" above the sink. Curious why you think it best to be at counter level. How important is it to have that extra 3" behind the sink? I hate to give up all that kitchen space.

There really is no other place for the pantry. Or at least I could not think of any... Ideas welcome. If it does stay I prefer not to have it angled. We are thinking of a pocket door so it won't disrupt that aisle.

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I like the idea of pushing the sink over to make a lower cabinet facing the fridge -- would give landing space for the fridge as well as storage under the landing space for snack dishes and glasses for the fridge. I might even give up the prep sink and/or pantry to gain space for glasses/cups and snack dishes.

You could let go of seating 3 at the island and make that end next to the fridge a full width cabinet, so that'd give you 36" wide and 12 - 15" deep lower cabinet. If you can get drawers in your cabinet line in that shallow a depth, you could do drawers (so much more convenient for this purpose), or maybe go ahead and make it 24" deep, but that'd mean moving that prep sink over to the center of the island which isn't idea . . . Ugh. So hard!!

For sure, glasses or cups near the fridge. In my design, I struggled to get space next to the fridge and finally found a way to get a 24" wide upper and lower cabinet. Upper for cups and every day glasses some snack plates/bowls, and lower drawers for more snack dishes, etc. I gave up on a wall microwave to get there, and went with the overpriced drawer microwave in the island instead.

Given your overall layout, what do you think about extending the fridge wall by a couple feet to give you full upper and lowers to the left of the fridge? That's pretty much my layout, just 24" wide upper and lowers to the side of my otherwise isolated fridge. That gives you loads of room for glassware and dishes, too, especially if you use dish drawers in the lower.