Here is the thing. I should not have to do anything to fix this sink. We paid good money and were deliberately misinformed.

Care instructions are on all manufacturers websites and in the written documentation furnished to all customers. As are the warranties. And exclusions. The information is readily available even if people prefer to not read it.

"We are arranging a buy out of the warranty that relieves the manufacturer for further damage."

I have been a warranty agent for Avonite, Meganite, and other solid surface manufacturers. I have never heard of such a thing. Call Formica warranty. They will send an agent to make an assessment. If they rule it manufacturing defect or even fabricator error, they will replace the sink at no charge, plumbing included. They've paid me to do it. Some even cover when it's customer abuse.

Formica is indeed "buying out our warrenty" (their words) for the amount they would have paid to have the integrated sink repaired. The amount will be enough to have the actual manufacturer send a person to cut out the sink, our plumber and a good drop in sink. It is clear that this IS a common practice. So there are 2 things to know about this solid surface countertop from Formica. #1 - The damaged sink can be removed and a good drop in installed. #2 - Formica can and does" buy out warrenties."

drawingeverinward:

Thanks for the education; that's a new one on me. I still wouldn't do a drop in. It's not that much more work and expense to have a seamless heat-proof stainless steel undermount. At least they've made you whole.

Since this thread is now ancient but apparently still has some life, I thought I'd give an update to those researching this topic on their own. We did end up going with Solid Surface and decided on an integrated sink, but we chose Corian over other brands and paid a small premium for it.

We were going with the solid white color (Glacier White in the DuPont palette) so any brand would have been a contender, but these are the reasons I made this decision:

1. Quality and Consistency -- All brands, including DuPont Corian, offered a "free" sink with minimum purchase of the installed material from several authorized retailers I visited, including Formica Solid Surfacing. However, I heard/learned from someone that the free sinks were worth just about what they cost you--aka nothing. The "free" sinks came from China and were made with inferior materials--not the same stuff the countertop was made of. If you look the Corian brochure from Home Depot, for example, this seems to be borne out as the free models have slightly different models numbers (i.e. instead of 800 it was called 800P or something) and the color was called "Crisp White, which is similar to Glacier White" or some such disclaimer. I learned from somewhere that the "P" stands for Polyester and these re indeed knock-offs used only for these free incentives but the quality is unknown. Since polyester is generally considered less durable than acrylic I did not want a "P" sink--arguably the hardest working/most abused part of the integrated countertop I was buying. And as I was going with the same color counter as the sink, I could not take a chance that the sink color would be slightly different.

I was told DuPont was the only solid surface manufacturer that actually makes its own sinks. The others outsourced it. I don't know if it's true, but I had a lot better feeling about the quality and consistency I would get if I chose a Corian sink as opposed to one offered by Formica or LG or another manufacturer.

2. Selection -- Corian has far more integrated solid surface sinks to choose from than other vendors. In particular the Vaso Collection's Angolo Sink was perfect for our modern kitchen in our contemporary home. It was not inexpensive, but the best things rarely are.

I did not get the cheapest price with Corian vs. Formica or LG or something and those brands may have been fine. But I feel that I got a good value.

And now that we are 1 year+ into living with Corian in our daily lives we have no regrets. It's a great material and I love the integrated sink--it is the best thing in my kitchen.

So glad it worked out for you. Sometimes it is much better to pay a bit more for the peace of mind! And actually, solid surface is making a BIG comeback in those high-end designer kitchen displays, so expect it to trickle down to the masses in the next few years.

We've had our Swanstone counters/sink for 12 yrs, and I still love mine too!

To chrisinsd, and all. Update on our project. After lots of phone calls and advise and so on, the company that manufactured our Formica solid surface, we now have a beautiful Kohler sink in place of the integrated one! The integrated was cut out making the opening to fit the new sink. So happy to have a sink that can be properly cleaned, is bigger and deeper. Of course it took our plumber coming twice in 2 days, but Formica ' s buyout of my warrenty will pay the Lions share!!!

"So happy to have a sink that can be properly cleaned..."

Solid surface sinks, just like stainless steel sinks, can be refinished to virtually new.

As long as one does not pour boiling water. Personally, I cook pasta. My integrated sink quickly became ruined, with spider Web cracking around the drain. Very unclean. And was told not to use any product with bleach. Yes... that integrated sink could have been repaired but that does not solve the problem that pouring pasta water would simply spoil the sink again. Who wants that? I can not speak for the durability of any other solid surface integrated sink except the Formica product. But because of this experience I could not in good consciousness recommend an integrated sink for any kitchen! "Buyer beware." Do the homework. Ask all the questions. GET IT IN WRITING ahead of time.

And.... i love my new cast iron white drop in sink!!!!!

drawingeverinward:

There are no solid surface sink manufactures who recommend pouring boiling water directly into sinks. There are no automobile manufacturers that recommend frying eggs on the hood of their cars in the hot sun either. Each can be done, but the customer, not the manufacturer, bears the responsibility for the consequences.

I've poured hot pasta water directly down the disposal hole of solid surface sinks for decades without consequence.

Karran manufacturers an integrated stainless steel sink, the Edge series, which has all the sanitary advantages of having no reveal and no possibility of heat damage from boiling water.

Buyer beware. One might ask oneself , " Would a serious cook want a sink that can not stand up to hot water, to BOILING water?" Comparing being able to actually use one's sink without fear that hot water will damage (and read the fine print. ... these sinks CAN be ruined with HOT water... what to speak of pasta water) to frying an egg on one's car is not at all logical. So... I

drawingeverinward:

You don't get to set toilet bowl cleaner on your granite, then complain when it's ruined by the acid. You don't get to pour scalding water into a solid surface sink and complain that the sink is bad. It's not.

EXACTLY!!!!! DO NOT POUR HOT WATER OR SCALDING WATER or BOILING WATER DOWN YOUR SOLID SURFACE SINK!!!!! I could not have said it more clearly! Signing off! Good luck to you all!!! Be informed!!!!! Don't throw good money after bad!!!!! May you live long and prosper!!!

Just one more thing before I sign off forever. Today is November 1st, 2015, in case there is a question of how recent or old my posts are. Take care, everyone.

What? I don't get it.

It's simple. drawingeverinward is trying to blame a product for a customer abuse failure.

Arent you suppose to turn on the cold water first before pouring the hot water down? I think I saw that on their website but maybe everyone doesn't take the time to research.

It is a great product for some, but I would forget to turn on the water beforehand so it's just not for me.

Lol..... "Buyer beware!"

Glad you got this resolved to your satisfaction drawingeverinward.

I think Treb might be being a little harsh here...I think both points
are valid. Yes, the sink does not accept boiling water poured in it and
the manufacturer warns against this practice. Treb makes this valid
point.

However, from a
consumer's perspective, it is not an unreasonable expectation to think that you
CAN do this with your kitchen sink. Think about it for a minute--with
every single sink any of us have ever owned other than these integrated ones
this is a non-issue. And since the retailer of the countertop likely said
nothing to the customer when they handed over their credit card about this
limitation (I know mine didn't, I had to learn it by reading places like GW),
they were likely blissfully unaware. Now "ignorance is not a
defense"--I know I know. But I do feel it isn't crazy that someone
would think a sink, any sink, should accept boiling water poured in it. A
sink that doesn't have this capability is indeed inferior to other sinks in
this respect. However there are other features of a solid surface sink
that many people feel make it a superior choice to competing alternatives, but
this is clearly a trade off. There is nothing convenient or better about
having a kitchen equipped with a sink that cannot directly accept boiling
water, all things being equal.

I think drawingeverinward is
just saying "I didn't know this would happen and I was shocked the sink
was less durable than I thought and I learned the hard way and buyers should be
aware of this use limitation when choosing a solid surface sink."

It is frankly
irrelevant if other products have functional limitations as well--granite and
acid and the car boiling eggs bit. We are talking about solid surface
kitchen sinks compared other kitchen sinks here, not other features of various
products.

Yes. When we were ready to buy we went to Lowes. We looked at everything they had. The sales person never said one word about the limits of the Formica integrated sink. If I had been informed we would simply picked something else. My HUGE failing was trusting that the product was as wonderful as it was advertized and extolled in store. That is why I say to any person considering these products, do your homework. Understand the limitations before you purchase. So i will always say, "Buyer beware." Read the small print. Ask folks who have remodeled their kitchens, people who cook from scratch, chefs, consumer reports, wherever knowledge can be found. I can only speak for myself. $3500 for new countertop including an integrated sink is alot of money. I thought we were buying a superior product. Just know that all things are NOT the same. All products with recognizable company names and glossy phamplet are NOT equal. And just because someone working in the kitchen department at the local home store has his or her own card does not mean they are as knowledgeable as the shopper needs. Buyer beware always. But also know that there are steps that may taken to protect the consumer. I wish I had read all I have posted on this site BEFORE I had considered purchasing our Formica solid surface countertop with integrated sink. This would have saved me so much aggravation.

The only "protections" are the protections that you generated by doing tons of research. You are the only person who knows your actual needs. They needed to sell you a sink, they did that.

When you've fabricated and installed a fine product without getting complaints or regrets for over twenty years and you get misattribution for a flaw that isn't that of your product, apparently my defense makes me appear "harsh". I struggle with my tone, but not with the facts.

Oh good grief! I've had the white Corian countertops now for over 31 years and they look as good as the day they were installed. Twelve years ago, we took out one countertop and gave it to the fabricator along with the piece of Corian that had been cut out for the drop-in stainless sink, they glued it back in and then installed Corian's largest single integrated sink. It looks fabulous!

Of course, I drain boiling pasta water directly into it, and put pans off the stove and I've never had a crack or thermal shock or anything in 12 years. I can also empty the entire frozen solid contents of my refrigerator ice maker into the sink and it does''t have any "shock". It's a great sink and I adore it! My daughter got the same sink about 8-9 years ago. In a household with a SATH husband and two teenage boys, that sink has seen it all and looks as good as the day it was installed.

Corian is a great product and is undervalued today. Saying it's plasticky is ridiculous - looks less so than all that shiny quartz which DOES look like it's plastic, or dated. Really? I suppose a great white shirt is also dated! If someone gave me $500,000 to redo my kitchen, I would still use white Corian and their integrated sink.

Ms. Brown:

I just brought a white Corian kitchen back to life this afternoon. New sink and a refinish.

OMG. I just came across this thread. We are gutting our 30 year old kitchen and I was liking the Formica solid surface countertops only because I like the look of the tops better than the granite look. I didn't even think of the sink. YET. I am so glad I read this. I would not want a sink that I can't dump boiling water into without turning on the cold water from the tap first. How ridiculous. In other words you would be giving up convenience for the look of the integrated sink. That wouldn't work in my busy household. It's hard enough getting the teenagers to load the dishwasher never mind getting them to run cold water first before dumping the pasta water. lol.

dixielolla:

Pour all the hot water you please into these seamed undermounted sinks.

Joe, that link led to the Karran sinks but all of them are marked "seamless" did you mean stainless?

Thank you for your comment Joseph. It is reassuring to hear this from a Pro. Anyways, I guess I need to do some more research because I can't for the life of me figure out what the difference is between Formica 180fx, Formica Laminate & Formica Solid Surface.

Laminate and 180FX are both laminate. The laminate has their regular colors and the FX is upgraded as in more realistic, high resolution pattern.

The solid surface is just that like Corian or LG Hi Macs. Although I really prefer the Formica to Coriander because I think it resembles quartz.

I see this string is a year old and I hope the professionals are still using Houzz. I'm planning a full kitchen remodel a chose an LG Hi-Macs countertop. What can you tell me about using the Hi-Macs as the backsplash behind a gas slide-in range (no back panel/riser) ? Most gas slide-in ranges also have the grates to the edge. Is a gas slide-in range doable with an acrylic counter and backsplash?

" Is a gas slide-in range doable with an acrylic counter and backsplash?"

Certainly. Just make sure your kitchen designer follows all the range manufacturer's recommended clearances.

Which means, no, you can not place solid surface directly behind most gas ranges. They require 6”-9” side and back clearance to a combustible surface. Solid surface will scorch if it is too close to high heat. It is mostly an acrylic resin, aka plastic.

Gas has much more bypass heat than does electric, or especially induction. 60% of the heat produced by gas burners goes up and around the pot and into the room. That is why the greater clearances required for gas rather than electric. Many electric units have 0” rear clearance requirements.

It isn't a big deal to have your kitchen designer use angled fillers at a range cut out to bump the range far enough away from the rear wall to get the clearances for the range and materials you want.

I've written about this.

Sophie, I do NOT have 6" to 9" side clearance from my stove to my Corian countertop. It's been there (as has the stove!) now for 32 years with no problems at all.

I'm smiling. This is exactly what I found while researching.

Something I did read led me to believe that acrylic can discolor from frequent high heat but that it could be sanded away Does this sound right to anyone?

Sophie, I think the acrylic countertops will melt when exposed to high heat for a long period, but not combust.

Joseph, I plan on a white range with that concept in mind. And to raise the range as adjustable legs permit. I will certainly read your article because I agree with caveat emptor. Once we're done with the kitchen, I want to move on rather than revisit or be consumed by warranties, workmanship issues, etc

Anglophia, what brand range do you have that has lasted 32 years?? Can you post a photo?

i would consider a cooktop above a wall oven but the oven controls are so low. I'd also consider a different heat tolerant backsplash (sheet) material at the entire wall behind the stove.

"Something I did read led me to believe that acrylic can discolor from frequent high heat but that it could be sanded away Does this sound right to anyone?"

@tdemonti - In order to have an intelligent conversation on the subject, we need to know what brand and model range you are using. Anglophillia is not necessarily correct in her assumption because there are MANY ranges on the market today with much higher BTU output on the back burners than you could get 32 years ago.

High-powered (11,500 BTU) burners for domestic ranges did not even exist in ANY BRAND until 1987. LET ALONE the 23,000 BTU burners of recent years.

There are also some slide in ranges that are still being manufactured that only require around 3" of clearance to the rear wall, but that is more common with "cooktops" than "Rangetops". It is true, and more likely, that a range sold today without a backguard requires 6"-8" of clearance to the rear wall. If the range comes with an "island trim" that is exactly what the trim is listed to be used for - a FLAT island countertop - unless the back wall is a significant distance away from the back of the range. There is no code accepted means of reducing that required clearance (such as a sheet of stainless steel applied directly to a combustible wall) other than the LISTED backguard that is sold separately by the range manufacturer.

As long as the manufacturer's listed clearance requirements to combustible materials is met, it makes no difference if the finish of the wall is paint, ceramic tile, stainless steel, or Corian. There is a BIG difference in clearances between some GE models (simmer burners at the rear) and something like Viking.

Thank you, Joe and Fred. The reason I seek this input is to help me make a wise decision when selecting a range. It really does help. I learned that the slide in range was designed for island installation Newer slide in ranges go to the wall. I don't need a high output professional model but do want white. I just wish the oven vent were in the front vs back. What I'm understanding is that installation instructions are designed to meet building code. Some slide ins have an optional riser panel and that's what I'll focus on. You guys are great.

" What I'm understanding is that installation instructions are designed to meet building code."

Here in Florida, often times the manufacturer's installation instructions are adopted by the state as the code.

Example, 502.1.

I think that is universal, as I know of no state that is willing to spend millions of dollars a year to test thousands of unique appliances in order to come up with their own rules.

(I prefer to use the relevant example) ;D

"Listing" is what happens after the independent testing laboratory makes sure the product's clearances label and installation instructions meet the ANSI standards and put that "UL sticker" (label) on it. - the whole code process works together with the "listed and labeled" requirement and ANSI safety standards.

.

[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/tile-backsplash-wont-meet-building-code-dsvw-vd~3992018?n=57[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/tile-backsplash-wont-meet-building-code-dsvw-vd~3992018?n=57)

.

You're right - my stove is a 1948 O'Keefe and Merritt range. I can't remember the BTU's of the burners - read what they were somewhere - but they certainly aren't 23,000BTU's. Frankly, I can't imagine what anyone is cooking to need that high a BTU rating! I think mine may be 9000 - that number is sticking in my head. Of course, they are open-burner.

I think when one gets a professional range with such high heat, one needs to realize that this is going to affect every aspect of ones kitchen - the countertops, backsplash, hood - even the flooring. The people I know who have gotten these, never cook at all - just status symbols. But that's just the ones I know - others may be different.

I just look at Julia Child's kitchen and stove etc and think of the incredible meals that came out of her kitchen, and realize that unless one is running a restaurant, one does not need these OTT appliances.

If you stir fry, you need it!

Julia had a Garland. Which is today’s Blue Star. It just comes with insulation and some safety features.

A range with a back guard usually has a zero clearance rear specification. Cooktops are where you really need to watch the rest clearances. Then there are all of the ranges and range tops that need the required back guard accessories, but get installed without them becaus it is better looking. You bet they will scorch laminate, corian, or quartz.

My approach to remodeling this kitchen is function then form. We're rearranging it from a mid-'70's U that accommodates one cook, to a two-cook kitchen (two L's). I'll need a backguard, I'm sure. Thank you all for the links and articles you all provide. I do read them

Here is a link to the Hi-Macs technical sheet. Can someone explain deflection temperature, radiant heat resistance, and high temperature resistance?

http://www.lghimacsusa.com/pages/164/technical%20factsheet

You have to look up the NEMA standards and test methods if you can find them. I think this might be one.

http://nsf.kavi.com/apps/group_public/download.php/34132/NEMA%20LD3%20Section%203.6.pdf

Thanks, Fred. I really do appreciate this forum. My initial concern revolved around the heat coming from the oven vent which is at the rear of slide in ranges, vs. splatter from the stove top. This brings me to a question I should've asked first

What is the PRIMARY purpose of a backsplash? To protect the wall? Ease of cleaning? Aesthetics?

"What is the PRIMARY purpose of a backsplash? To protect the wall? Ease of cleaning? Aesthetics?"

All of the above.